Forced to return to home country - what would you do?

[thaibeachlovers]

I'd imagine staying in Thailand and hiring a couple of home aids to look after one would be a good way to live out one's final years/ months. Unimaginably expensive in the UK though.

While I am sure that this is a workable plan for many expats in Thailand, I don't think it addresses a few issues.

Most notably is the assumption that the aged expat has full use of his/her faculties; sadly dementia will take its toll on many, with many more suffering some loss of mental faculty.

The danger here is that Thailand has no trust law, under which the financial needs and control of estate might be managed. So those suffering loss of the mental faculties in Thailand they risk not just the same abuse/neglect they might suffer in the UK or US, they are also at grave risk of financial abuse.

Perhaps as bad is the lack of laws to deal with securely managing other people's affairs, may without very careful planning, leave honest families and carers with no means of accessing the expat's income/funds if the expat loses the ability to do for for himself/herself.

Its a mess and tragedy in the making (examples of which I, and I am sure others, have already witnessed).

My personal view is that for an expat to have any security in Thailand during their old age, their very best chance is a genuine relationship with a Thai wife/husband that must extend to a genuine relationship with the expat's Thai in-laws. We should each of us give careful consideration to what these things are - and indeed what they are not.

If an expat is lucky enough to find himself in a genuine caring relationship with their Thai wife/husband, supported by the Thai in-laws, then I would advise taking time to plan and arrange for the financial security of your wife/husband in the even you yourself are unable to manage your income/wealth.

And you always, always, need a plan B.

The nanny state back home that we often bemoan is in truth the reason why many expats eventually do get on the big silver bird back to welfare, health care and the security these things provide. ...... Despite their brave words while enjoying good health and good fortune.

IMO the only reason that people that would go into the State nursing home ( not expensive rest homes for rich people ) situation go home to allow themselves to be put into poorly funded care homes with overworked and underpaid staff is that they probably have no idea of what they are like. When most of us on TV were growing up people just didn't live that long to have much experience of our grandparents in care homes.

I'm certain that if people did have an idea of what it would be like there would be a lot more flying from high buildings in LOS than there currently are.

IMO being in a rest home dependent on the staff because my body is stuffed while my brain is OK would be hell. Stuck in front of tv all day and fed muck is not the way for a once active person to live.

[evadgib]

"In Emergency, Break Glass!"

Edited July 21, 2015 by evadgib

[GuestHouse]

IMO the only reason that people that would go into the State nursing home ( not expensive rest homes for rich people ) situation go home to allow themselves to be put into poorly funded care homes with overworked and underpaid staff is that they probably have no idea of what they are like. When most of us on TV were growing up people just didn't live that long to have much experience of our grandparents in care homes.

I'm certain that if people did have an idea of what it would be like there would be a lot more flying from high buildings in LOS than there currently are.

IMO being in a rest home dependent on the staff because my body is stuffed while my brain is OK would be hell. Stuck in front of tv all day and fed muck is not the way for a once active person to live.

The phenomena of old people retiring in Thailand is even newer.

Many do not have health insurance, lack secure family support, financial security or even speak the language.

This IMO is a welfare disaster in the making.

[micmichd]

IMO the only reason that people that would go into the State nursing home ( not expensive rest homes for rich people ) situation go home to allow themselves to be put into poorly funded care homes with overworked and underpaid staff is that they probably have no idea of what they are like. When most of us on TV were growing up people just didn't live that long to have much experience of our grandparents in care homes.

I'm certain that if people did have an idea of what it would be like there would be a lot more flying from high buildings in LOS than there currently are.

IMO being in a rest home dependent on the staff because my body is stuffed while my brain is OK would be hell. Stuck in front of tv all day and fed muck is not the way for a once active person to live.

The phenomena of old people retiring in Thailand is even newer.

Many do not have health insurance, lack secure family support, financial security or even speak the language.

This IMO is a welfare disaster in the making.

The problem of old people retiring in Thailand might grow.

Without any health insurance and family support, Western countries might have to take them back. And that will get really expensive for Western welfare systems.

Actually, all workers and pensioners are supposed have a *social* health insurance in their countries, where they contributed while working (maybe NHS in UK). Where "social" means treatments cannot be refused because of pre-existing conditions (chronical diseases eg.) Private health insurances might not cover up everything. So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

[tookwan cottage]

If I ran out of money when retired I would return to Scandi.

If I did at say 70 years old they would give me some sort of home and some money to spend.

I am still working and have over 10 years to go before retiring and I am saving so I don't run out of money (hopefully).

A former friend did just that last year; His wife spend all his saving on building a 5 story condo out in Jomtien and they managed to almost finished the building before they ran out of money.

His wife did a runner with 5mill I been told when she could see the writing on the wall and she told my friend to take their son with him home.

Everybody told him not to build this condo and save his +20mill baht and spend 1 mill per year and pension on top but no, he would not listen to us.

Now he is sitting back home, poor as poor can be and I think the only reason he are still alive is because of his son or he would have taken the easy way out and ended his life.

Sad man.

If this story is fully accurate, then it gives me even more reason to be grateful for my life. It is intriguing that people persist even though EVERYONE they know is advising them otherwise.

[micmichd]

Everyone I knew knew I was dead. Several times, they had the whole story.

Last time I was dead I died of suicide, everyone knew that I had fallen in love with a girl that only existed in my fantasy.

Wonder what everyone knows if I come back, lol

Why should I follow everyone's advice?

[thaibeachlovers]

IMO the only reason that people that would go into the State nursing home ( not expensive rest homes for rich people ) situation go home to allow themselves to be put into poorly funded care homes with overworked and underpaid staff is that they probably have no idea of what they are like. When most of us on TV were growing up people just didn't live that long to have much experience of our grandparents in care homes.

I'm certain that if people did have an idea of what it would be like there would be a lot more flying from high buildings in LOS than there currently are.

IMO being in a rest home dependent on the staff because my body is stuffed while my brain is OK would be hell. Stuck in front of tv all day and fed muck is not the way for a once active person to live.

The phenomena of old people retiring in Thailand is even newer.

Many do not have health insurance, lack secure family support, financial security or even speak the language.

This IMO is a welfare disaster in the making.

The problem of old people retiring in Thailand might grow.

Without any health insurance and family support, Western countries might have to take them back. And that will get really expensive for Western welfare systems.

Actually, all workers and pensioners are supposed have a *social* health insurance in their countries, where they contributed while working (maybe NHS in UK). Where "social" means treatments cannot be refused because of pre-existing conditions (chronical diseases eg.) Private health insurances might not cover up everything. So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

True, so why do some western governments make it so hard to live over here? If they could only take their heads out of where the sun don't shine, they would realise it would be cheaper for them to encourage us to retire here than back home.

[Time Traveller]

The problem of old people retiring in Thailand might grow.

Without any health insurance and family support, Western countries might have to take them back. And that will get really expensive for Western welfare systems.

Actually, all workers and pensioners are supposed have a *social* health insurance in their countries, where they contributed while working (maybe NHS in UK). Where "social" means treatments cannot be refused because of pre-existing conditions (chronical diseases eg.) Private health insurances might not cover up everything. So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

True, so why do some western governments make it so hard to live over here? If they could only take their heads out of where the sun don't shine, they would realise it would be cheaper for them to encourage us to retire here than back home.

Western Governments don't make it hard to live in Thailand. Thailand does that by itself,<deleted>

You choose to live in another country. You want the advantages of living elsewhere, without the disadvantages? Humans survived hundreds of thousands of years before welfare was invented. The Thais also survive without welfare.

Isn't it time you be an adult now? Why should any country offer you priveledges when you decide to abandon living there and live somewhere else? They don't benefit by you spending their money in another country.

Edited July 22, 2015 by CharlieH

[Linky]

The problem of old people retiring in Thailand might grow.

Without any health insurance and family support, Western countries might have to take them back. And that will get really expensive for Western welfare systems.

Actually, all workers and pensioners are supposed have a *social* health insurance in their countries, where they contributed while working (maybe NHS in UK). Where "social" means treatments cannot be refused because of pre-existing conditions (chronical diseases eg.) Private health insurances might not cover up everything. So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

True, so why do some western governments make it so hard to live over here? If they could only take their heads out of where the sun don't shine, they would realise it would be cheaper for them to encourage us to retire here than back home.

Western Governments don't make it hard to live in Thailand. Thailand does that by itself, you clown.

You choose to live in another country. You want the advantages of living elsewhere, without the disadvantages? Humans survived hundreds of thousands of years before welfare was invented. The Thais also survive without welfare.

Isn't it time you be an adult now? Why should any country offer you priveledges when you decide to abandon living there and live somewhere else? They don't benefit by you spending their money in another country.

Well actually they do benefit from people not living in their home countries. Imagine if every expat returned home. Full pensions would need to be paid and hospitals would be over burdenned costing millions.

[micmichd]

The problem of old people retiring in Thailand might grow.

Without any health insurance and family support, Western countries might have to take them back. And that will get really expensive for Western welfare systems.

Actually, all workers and pensioners are supposed have a *social* health insurance in their countries, where they contributed while working (maybe NHS in UK). Where "social" means treatments cannot be refused because of pre-existing conditions (chronical diseases eg.) Private health insurances might not cover up everything. So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

True, so why do some western governments make it so hard to live over here? If they could only take their heads out of where the sun don't shine, they would realise it would be cheaper for them to encourage us to retire here than back home.

Western Governments don't make it hard to live in Thailand. Thailand does that by itself, you clown.

You choose to live in another country. You want the advantages of living elsewhere, without the disadvantages? Humans survived hundreds of thousands of years before welfare was invented. The Thais also survive without welfare.

Isn't it time you be an adult now? Why should any country offer you priveledges when you decide to abandon living there and live somewhere else? They don't benefit by you spending their money in another country.

Sorry, I worked for my money in Germany, and I also worked for the social health insurance there. You are forced to be a member in social health insurance, and they take a bit portion of your gross income away. So, Germans on pension have normally contributed to their SS.

Doesn't matter where they spend their money, claims to Social Security are property of the owner (in this case: the expat), and chasing them out is nothing else but expropriation.

Maybe different in UK, there's no tax-financed NHS for employees in Germany.

There is free medical care in Germany for those who never worked in their lives and decided to live on welfare instead. Why should I have been working for those parasites? Pray tell.

Edited July 22, 2015 by micmichd

[thaibeachlovers]

The problem of old people retiring in Thailand might grow.

Without any health insurance and family support, Western countries might have to take them back. And that will get really expensive for Western welfare systems.

Actually, all workers and pensioners are supposed have a *social* health insurance in their countries, where they contributed while working (maybe NHS in UK). Where "social" means treatments cannot be refused because of pre-existing conditions (chronical diseases eg.) Private health insurances might not cover up everything. So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

So, Western social health insurances should be forced to pay treatments in Thailand. Simple because it is cheaper here.

The same holds true with nursing.

True, so why do some western governments make it so hard to live over here? If they could only take their heads out of where the sun don't shine, they would realise it would be cheaper for them to encourage us to retire here than back home.

Western Governments don't make it hard to live in Thailand. Thailand does that by itself, you clown.

You choose to live in another country. You want the advantages of living elsewhere, without the disadvantages? Humans survived hundreds of thousands of years before welfare was invented. The Thais also survive without welfare.

Isn't it time you be an adult now? Why should any country offer you priveledges when you decide to abandon living there and live somewhere else? They don't benefit by you spending their money in another country.

WOW, did you ever get that wrong. Try reading what I wrote before going off on a rant.

I can live in my home country and they HAVE to pay for all my hospital costs there- do you have any idea what a stroke patient costs to rehabilitate, or how much a heart bypass operation costs, plus rest home cost if one doesn't have savings?

OR they make it easy for me to live in LOS where the hospital costs etc are much lower.

The taxpayer would benefit considerably if they could get lots of pensioners ( the largest users of hospitals ) to live in LOS.

[Ace of Pop]

I thought the largest users of Western Hospitalls were pregnant non whites .

[Cypress Hill]

I thought the largest users of Western Hospitalls were pregnant non whites .

Nope, you thought wrong, Enoch

They're full of indigenous white trash meth heads fresh off the Jeremy Kyle show

[micmichd]

So, Western hospitals seem to be quite crowded. Yet another reason to export free medical care to Thailand, and not just export pensioners to Thailand and leave their legal rights in the West.

[DeaconJohn]

I thought the largest users of Western Hospitalls were pregnant non whites .

Nope, you thought wrong, Enoch

They're full of indigenous white trash meth heads fresh off the Jeremy Kyle show

From my own experience of bottom-end medical care in state hospitals in the New York metropolitan area it's about 60% Hispanics; 30% blacks; and 10% low-class whites... and I mean really low-class whites, some with facial tattoos.

[Cypress Hill]

I thought the largest users of Western Hospitalls were pregnant non whites .

Nope, you thought wrong, Enoch

They're full of indigenous white trash meth heads fresh off the Jeremy Kyle show

From my own experience of bottom-end medical care in state hospitals in the New York metropolitan area it's about 60% Hispanics; 30% blacks; and 10% low-class whites... and I mean really low-class whites, some with facial tattoos.

Mostly whites in inner London

[nontabury]

I thought the largest users of Western Hospitalls were pregnant non whites .

Nope, you thought wrong, Enoch

They're full of indigenous white trash meth heads fresh off the Jeremy Kyle show

From my own experience of bottom-end medical care in state hospitals in the New York metropolitan area it's about 60% Hispanics; 30% blacks; and 10% low-class whites... and I mean really low-class whites, some with facial tattoos.

Mostly whites in inner London

Are there any whites left there. I thought they'd all gone to live in their little condos around Asoke.

[zierf1]

This is why you should never burn your bridges with family. Family is so important. If I run out of money in Thailand, I can always move back home with my mother rent free. Room over my head in Thailand = $100 a month. Roof over my head in America: $0 (for me anyways). I returned to Thailand and I was able to get a $40k a year job almost immediately after I returned after 5 years living in Thailand. Never needed to rent an expensive hotel or anything.

[micmichd]

No way for me, I am an orphan and have no Farang family anymore.
I want my money and my German health insurance to pay everything in Thailand, that's what I worked for. I never accepted German culture, and I never will.

If someone would throw a bomb on Old Heidelberg, I would feel sorry for the buildings, and don't give a <deleted!> about the natives.

Edited July 23, 2015 by metisdead

[lovelomsak]

I would move back to Vancouver Island buy a house ,a power boat I am now to old to sail and fish and crab and shrimp. Take long walks on isolated beachs and eat in different ethnic restaurants.Pretty much same as before I left except no racing of my sailboat I wouldnot buy one.

[micmichd]

The OP is about being *forced* to go home, ie against your will. I would kill Germans in self-defense if they touch me, especially if they come as medical caretakers.

I will not love Big Brother.

Edited July 23, 2015 by micmichd

[villagefarang]

I can see how governments might be looking at the multiplier effect of money spent in country and taxed again and again. If they send the money overseas it is gone and lost from the system, even if it looks cheaper on the surface.

That is easy for me to say, however, since I don’t have any skin in the game and receive nothing from my government. Also, after forty years here I have nothing to go back to.

[Trembly]

I moved back to the US. I got tired of the heat, dirt and third world standards. One year was all it took after many trips. I still return for visits, usually about 3 months.

BTW I consider Thailand dangerous with a very high gun murder rate and a very high road death toll per capita. I feel very safe in small town USA.

I like first world standards everywhere I look including my first world home, kitchen, bathrooms, garage door openers... First world infrastructure...

As for what would someone do, I have four good friends in Thailand who are also regulars on this forum who know they have me. I have made it clear more than once that all they have to do is let me know and I'll pick them up at the airport, bring them to my home, provide food and transportation and WE will figure it out from there. That's what friends are for where I come from.

Cheers.

BZ

[fang37]

Going back? Nightmare!

My values have changed significantly by living in LOS - for the better.

Back home - same old stuff? ie mine is better, bigger etc.

Live by the clock.

I do not live in BKK or Pattaya.

Life here is not "wonderful" - it is GOOD.

GOOD is GOOD enough for me.

[JockPieandBeans]

I can see how governments might be looking at the multiplier effect of money spent in country and taxed again and again. If they send the money overseas it is gone and lost from the system, even if it looks cheaper on the surface.

That is easy for me to say, however, since I don’t have any skin in the game and receive nothing from my government. Also, after forty years here I have nothing to go back to.

You might want to have a look at the money flowing out of the major economies.

In 2011, the World Bank estimated that U.S. remittances alone reached $110.8 billion, which was more than 80 per cent of the size of the total amount of cash flow ($132 billion).

In the United Kingdom, which sent $23 billion out of the country, the government's shadow minister for international development, Rushanara Ali, who was born in Bangladesh, believes the UK government should try to harness migrant money to complement aid spending.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigrants-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

[villagefarang]

I was merely mentioning the effect of money spent in country by pensioners going toward supporting businesses and paying salaries which are then spent on other things which support other businesses and jobs. They can also tax it many times along the way.

[fey]

Going back? Nightmare!

My values have changed significantly by living in LOS - for the better.

Back home - same old stuff? ie mine is better, bigger etc.

Live by the clock.

I do not live in BKK or Pattaya.

Life here is not "wonderful" - it is GOOD.

GOOD is GOOD enough for me.

As an expat I enjoy going back to my native country (USA) once in awhile.

There is a cozy feeling of home and being around others who are the same, that I just don't get no matter how long I live in a foreign country, and doubt I ever will for a distant place.

The closest example I could give would be that nostalgic feeling one may get when visiting your old childhood neighborhood or an old residence you grew up in.

Have you experienced this type of feeling? Maybe it's just me, or just not on that level, not sure.

Anyhow, never though I would feel this way about what was normal to me until I moved abroad permanently.

Of course, things would be different if I knew I had to stay, my feelings could turn negative. Pretty sums up anywhere actually, lack of choice and freedom produces negative vibes.

Go where you have to go and keep positive. Try not to complain since it rarely solves anything and puts your problems onto others (your not man enough to accept your problems so you tell them to others.

This is a way of getting rid of them emotionally. Some people need them for their own reasons and you can find these types listening to barstool nags for hours sucking up their negative vibes). It's a way of mentally arse fucing another man, in fact. One of the primary reasons I don't hang out in bars with a lot of men anymore.

Work on what you need to do to live on your own terms. Be a man and accept your problems or they will never go away.

[micmichd]

I can see how governments might be looking at the multiplier effect of money spent in country and taxed again and again. If they send the money overseas it is gone and lost from the system, even if it looks cheaper on the surface.

That is easy for me to say, however, since I dont have any skin in the game and receive nothing from my government. Also, after forty years here I have nothing to go back to.

You might want to have a look at the money flowing out of the major economies.

In 2011, the World Bank estimated that U.S. remittances alone reached $110.8 billion, which was more than 80 per cent of the size of the total amount of cash flow ($132 billion).

In the United Kingdom, which sent $23 billion out of the country, the government's shadow minister for international development, Rushanara Ali, who was born in Bangladesh, believes the UK government should try to harness migrant money to complement aid spending.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigrants-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

Money actually comes from labour, and it should go to those who worked for it. If an expat decided to move to Thailand, then all money should go into Thai economy.

Hopefully my cut with Germany was so drastic that it can't be reverted anymore.

[micmichd]

I can see how governments might be looking at the multiplier effect of money spent in country and taxed again and again. If they send the money overseas it is gone and lost from the system, even if it looks cheaper on the surface.

That is easy for me to say, however, since I dont have any skin in the game and receive nothing from my government. Also, after forty years here I have nothing to go back to.

You might want to have a look at the money flowing out of the major economies.

In 2011, the World Bank estimated that U.S. remittances alone reached $110.8 billion, which was more than 80 per cent of the size of the total amount of cash flow ($132 billion).

In the United Kingdom, which sent $23 billion out of the country, the government's shadow minister for international development, Rushanara Ali, who was born in Bangladesh, believes the UK government should try to harness migrant money to complement aid spending.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigrants-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

Money actually comes from labour, and it should go to those who worked for it. If an expat decided to move to Thailand, then all money should go into Thai economy.

Hopefully my cut with Germany was so drastic that it can't be reverted anymore.

The money I get come from computer systems that happen to be based in Germany. They could still be run from overseas even if all Germans would die.

[Cypress Hill]

Mostly whites in inner London

Are there any whites left there. I thought they'd all gone to live in their little condos around Asoke.

Aww, is a hut in Nakhon Nowhere all you can afford, then?