How can I take the fear of my parents to move to Thailand?

[Ahriman]

Hello,

I want to move with my parents in a suburb of Chiang Mai, Thailand in order to open a yoga resort with permaculture garden where I would teach yoga.

My parents want to create a yoga resort with me. Thailand is only unfamiliar to them and therefore they are afraid. They have already visited me on Koh Samui and they liked it only my mother found the people very unhygienic (mainly how people handle the meat at the local markets). The biggest problem is probably the fear that they don't know exactly what to expect and how the future will look like but in fact they also don't know that if they would stay in Germany.

What are methods to take this fear from my parents ?

I have already found an optimal house that is very low in rent and I would like to sign the lease soon. But both my parents still have to work until the end of the year therefore they can't come to Thailand again to get their own impression of Chiang Mai. But if they don't like it the worst case would be that they move after 6 months or so back to Germany or in another country and I will operate the retreat alone at least until the contract runs out.

Many thanks for your help!

[minimaxx]

Hi Ahriman,

I actually like your idea of teaching yoga in Chiang Mai. Although I have a couple of questions. I'm assuming, you did your market research and the outcome is that your business model is viable in the suburbs of Chiang Mai.

- Why do your parents have to move with you in the first place? May it be possible to try it out by your own for the first months?

- What are your reasons/expectations for/in opening A yoga studio IN Chiang Mai?

- What are other possible options for the near future?

As for the methods of taking away that fear.. I think the best would be to have a good answer to the questions above.. and also to make holiday here with your parents, so they can see what will await.

You could also compile a list of benefits of living here instead of Germany, with the cold winters, etc.

And as for the hygiene standards of your mom, ..this is something she must accept, before coming here.

All the best!

[impulse]

Your parents have every reason to be afraid.

What's your plan for registering the business and getting yourself and your parents permission to live and work in Thailand?

Who will your 51% Thai owners be? Who will your Thai employees be?

[Toknarok]

Opening a new business in Thailand is a dodgy business. Hope you've done your research about licences and visas.

[FolkGuitar]

my mother found the people very unhygienic (mainly how people handle the meat at the local markets).

Why must she shop in local markets? The larger supermarkets keep their meats in much more hygienic conditions, apparently the same as found in other First World countries.

Organically grown vegetables, frozen food items, clean meats and poultry... she could live her entire life here and never even encounter Thai foods handling.

[NancyL]

Chiang Mai is a very good place to live for older westerners who are retired. There are many activities to keep busy and the local people are very welcoming. The medical care is good. As mentioned, all manner of western food is available and sold in modern, world-class supermarkets.

What is scary is spending your retirement years running a business in Thailand where you pour your time, energy and money into a proposition that is doomed to failure. The chances are good that you'll be cheated along the way by both Thai and foreigners and won't find the resident expats supporting your business. Your expenses will be higher than expected and customers lower than planned.

And your parents will be stuck in Hang Dong, where they'll be isolated from other people their own age and nationality. Thailand probably isn't going to be very much fun for them.

P.S. -- this is your dream, not theirs. It's always much harder to be the partner helping someone else realize their dream. Do you really want to do this to your parents?

Edited August 9, 2015 by NancyL

[LarryBird]

There's a yoga studio on every corner now. It's the latest fad, (although an old one.) Why can't you open a studio in Germany where you will have the benefit of a reasonable just system, culture, and competitors will look to actually compete with you, rather than find new and improved ways to report you to law enforcement?

[impulse]

There's a yoga studio on every corner now. It's the latest fad, (although an old one.) Why can't you open a studio in Germany where you will have the benefit of a reasonable just system, culture, and competitors will look to actually compete with you, rather than find new and improved ways to report you to law enforcement?

'Cause German chicks are harder to score?

[worgeordie]

For years I tried to persuade my cousin and her husband to move

here,they used to come for 3 months per year and loved it,but nothing

would make them do the move,with the sale of their property and pensions,

they could have lived like Kings,plus better weather,at the moment they

will be huddled around the fire every winter.

The excuses were,we cannot speak Thai,there are no libraries here,

how will we receive our pension,what will happen if we fall ill,we would

have no friends here.they were happy to come for 3 months at a time,

but could not make the break from the UK.

So good luck with trying to get your parents to move here,especially

if you want them to invest in a business.

regards worgeordie

[arunsakda]

I tried to convince my mother to move to Thailand where she could have a decent lifestyle. Turns out she did not want to and prefers to life elsewhere, to each their own. Don't bother trying to open a business. If there is any way to do your permaculture and Yoga facility legally you will still face Thai partner and employee issues, constantly moving bureaucratic goalposts and possibility of shutdown. If you are a success Thai competitors will open an identical facility nearby. Agriculture is a prohibited profession for foreigners so these competitors may grass you to the labor department for example if you are seen working in the garden instead of Thai employee.

Don't forget the crooked policemen who will stop by regularly to fleece every Pfennig they can bleed from you.

[Konini]

The excuses were,we cannot speak Thai,there are no libraries here,

how will we receive our pension,what will happen if we fall ill,we would

have no friends here.they were happy to come for 3 months at a time,

but could not make the break from the UK.

Some people are just home birds, and nothing anyone can say will ever change that. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

On the other hand, moving here from EU and opening a business in any, let alone an overcrowded market almost certainly is.

However, if the OP is determined to do this, I wish the best of luck and suggest a long holiday for the parents immediately after they retire - 3 months minimum - followed by a few months of them doing their own thing back home and then another, longer holiday out here.

It may be that they will be happier, as many thousands of people are, spending half their time in EU and half here. As NancyL pointed out, this is your dream not theirs. You should consider that they may be looking forward to a bit of chill time after a lifetime of working.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Permaculture , Yoga resort i would assume vegetarian/vegan compliments that and solves any worries about eating dead animals. I would say do it but dont invest more than your happy to lose, profits could be slim or non at all? Would you still be happy doing it if that was the outcome? Germany is only 12 to 24 hours away. Airfares are not too expensive either. A one way to various cities in europe can be as low as for 204 euros with Norwegian Airlines(easy to get that airfare when i last looked).

[elgordo38]

Hi Ahriman,

I actually like your idea of teaching yoga in Chiang Mai. Although I have a couple of questions. I'm assuming, you did your market research and the outcome is that your business model is viable in the suburbs of Chiang Mai.

- Why do your parents have to move with you in the first place? May it be possible to try it out by your own for the first months?

- What are your reasons/expectations for/in opening A yoga studio IN Chiang Mai?

- What are other possible options for the near future?

As for the methods of taking away that fear.. I think the best would be to have a good answer to the questions above.. and also to make holiday here with your parents, so they can see what will await.

You could also compile a list of benefits of living here instead of Germany, with the cold winters, etc.

And as for the hygiene standards of your mom, ..this is something she must accept, before coming here.

All the best!

For some reason food poisoning is not a big issue here(I have seen no traces of it) but in the West they are constantly recalling items go figure. A lot of good advice in the above post and baby steps is the best idea start small. To start something like this you should have some money in the family so to speak. It takes time/money to get an idea like this rolling. I admire your chutzpah makes me wish I was younger give er a go matey

[NickJ]

I don't care what other posters think about this but......Healthcare here can suck if you dont have ironclad insurance...........I dont know what there situation is. I hope it is not

in line with care here is cheap. Some things are. many are not. I had a relative in the hospital here for years and the bill ran to way over 3 million U.S dollars......and the deductible on that was murder.....The local hospitals would only transfer to Bkk....most would not even accept the patient.

Also there is zero emergency response.

My advice is a long three month vacation to sauce things out. Then let your parents decide. Its there retirement.

[Ahriman]

Thank you very much minimaxx for your constructive post.

​"- Why do your parents have to move with you in the first place? May it be possible to try it out by your own for the first months?"

Politics and economy are changing dramatically in the EU. The EU is suppressing the people more and more by taxes etc. There might even be a war in Europe because the USA want to have a war with Russia. Recently the EU set up a law which allows the police to shoot demonstrators even if they are unarmed. That’s also a reason why I would like my parents to move away from Europe.

"- What are your reasons/expectations for/in opening A yoga studio IN Chiang Mai?"

Many yogis, lots of national parks so I can offer nature yoga retreats, food is growing very good, it’s very cheap, people are even more friendly than in the south and the climate is very good.

"- What are other possible options for the near future?"

Moving to New Zealand, Canada or Indonesia and opening a yoga retreat there.

I also made a huge list of pros and cons of living in Chiang Mai already that helped my parents a lot.

“All the best!“

Thank you!

@ Impulse

“Your parents have every reason to be afraid.”

What are those reasons?

“What's your plan for registering the business and getting yourself and your parents permission to live and work in Thailand?”

My parents have lots of savings, they are pensioners with a high pension and I have lots of savings as well. My parents wouldn’t have to work there so they could get a retirement visa and I would have to set up a company.

“Who will your 51% Thai owners be? Who will your Thai employees be? “

The Thai owner will be a good friend I know for many years or I heard that lawyers provide Thai people. Does somebody have experiences with that? My employees will be a Thai housemaid, cook and gardener. I guess people from Myanmar don’t count do they?

@NancyL

“What is scary is spending your retirement years running a business in Thailand where you pour your time, energy and money into a proposition that is doomed to failure.”

555, to summarise: you know pretty much nothing about me, my parents and our plans but you already know that our business would be doomed to failure à smart conclusions. I feel very lucky being able to judge things more differentiated and not having to live with a mindset like that. Thank you god and thank you for showing me how blessed I am!

“And your parents will be stuck in Hang Dong, where they'll be isolated from other people their own age and nationality.”

There are huge expat communities in Chiang Mai, many people who come to the yoga retreat will be their age and nationality. They can always invite friends, family or other interesting people to live at the resort.

“P.S. -- this is your dream, not theirs.”

I already wrote that my parents want to create a yoga retreat with me they also think it’s the thing to do.

@LarryBird

“There's a yoga studio on every corner now. It's the latest fad, (although an old one.)”

We don’t even have to make any money from the resort cause we have enough savings. We open the resort because we want to be around of other holistic and spiritual people if we would only have 10 students per month that’s totally fine. Besides we could also export dried and fresh organic fruits from our permaculture garden to first world countries many people are willing to pay lots of money for organic exotic fruits.

“Why can't you open a studio in Germany where you will have the benefit of a reasonable just system, culture, and competitors will look to actually compete with you, rather than find new and improved ways to report you to law enforcement?”

See above what I wrote about the EU, the judge system changed dramatically in Germany, foreigners who did honor killing or rapists got set free because it’s part of their culture and this is unfortunately not a single case. Many other things like that are happening as well.

“competitors will look to actually compete with you, rather than find new and improved ways to report you to law enforcement?”

Could you explain me this part again please?

@worgeordie

“So good luck with trying to get your parents to move here,especially

if you want them to invest in a business.”

Thanks for wishing me good luck my parents would not even have to invest their money it’s alright if they pay a small part from the rent of the house.

@arunsadka

“Agriculture is a prohibited profession for foreigners so these competitors may grass you to the labor department for example if you are seen working in the garden instead of Thai employee.”

Wow, I didn’t know about that. The work I’m planning to do in the garden would probably be just enough to feed my parents and me so I guess that’s legit but I still can imagine that it might cause troubles.

“Don't forget the crooked policemen who will stop by regularly to fleece every Pfennig they can bleed from you.”

I didn’t think about them as well :/ Do you think they even demand protection money from yoga resorts?

@CNXBKKMAN

“I would say do it but dont invest more than your happy to lose, profits could be slim or non at all? Would you still be happy doing it if that was the outcome?”

Yeah, I do it mainly to live together with my parents in a warm country with other interesting people having the same interests as us and eating lots of organic fresh food and you are right, we are a vegetarian family.

@elgordo38

“A lot of good advice in the above post and baby steps is the best idea start small.”

I agree baby steps are the way to go.

[natway09]

More importantly ensure you have good health cover for them <<<< just in case

[suzannegoh]

Re: "I didn’t think about them as well :/ Do you think they even demand protection money from yoga resorts? " -- ABSOLUTELY YES. Being a yoga teacher might be an honored profession among Western hippies but less so among Thai cops.

[LarryBird]

"

“competitors will look to actually compete with you, rather than find new and improved ways to report you to law enforcement?”

Could you explain me this part again please?"

Yes, the Thai way of doing business against a local farang is going to be report you in violation to the local authorities, rather than to try and improve their business. They work against each other, rather than trying to be better/more efficient. That, or giving the customer less for an increased price..

You've been given a lot of opinions from people who actually live here, and are taking the time to respond to what you are proposing. Perhaps you should consider that not every person in this thread is an idiot who is out to get you.

Good luck.

[dotpoom]

I would imagine it is asking a lot to hope that a complete stranger could give a person advice as to how they might alleviate a fear that person's parents have of relocating to a foreign country. If you yourself do not know, how on earth is it possible for a complete stranger to know the workings of your parent's minds?

Edited August 9, 2015 by dotpoom

[masuk]

Having spent most of a lifetime in a clean, tidy, hygienic environment, it's understandable that folk would experience some sort of culture shock seeing meat on open tables in markets, people handling money then food. On my irregular morning walk around the back sois of Chiang Mai this morning, I saw a few sleek, fat rodents scurrying out of the dumped rubbish on the roadside.

But this is the way most of the world lives, especially in most of Asia.

I took an American family to dinner at a pleasant, clean restaurant, but they stepped back in horror. They'd never seen such a place to eat; built of timber and the tables were basic plastic covered and the seating wooden benches. Our family had eaten there often, but it was a big shock for new arrivals to see how normal people lived and ate. But they ate with us and survived.

These things have to be tackled slowly.

[suzannegoh]

"

“competitors will look to actually compete with you, rather than find new and improved ways to report you to law enforcement?”

Could you explain me this part again please?"

Yes, the Thai way of doing business against a local farang is going to be report you in violation to the local authorities, rather than to try and improve their business. They work against each other, rather than trying to be better/more efficient. That, or giving the customer less for an increased price..

You've been given a lot of opinions from people who actually live here, and are taking the time to respond to what you are proposing. Perhaps you should consider that not every person in this thread is an idiot who is out to get you.

Good luck.

When you cut throught all the liberal busllshit, what it boils down to is that he's talking about moving his parents here to help him run an illegal business. But go ahead with that plan son, it will generate you much better karma than if you learn a trade and get a job in your own country.

[rijb]

I get tired of rice farmers has asking me for yoga lessons all the time. They'll be thrilled to know you're on the way.

[rijb]

Having spent most of a lifetime in a clean, tidy, hygienic environment, it's understandable that folk would experience some sort of culture shock seeing meat on open tables in markets, people handling money then food. On my irregular morning walk around the back sois of Chiang Mai this morning, I saw a few sleek, fat rodents scurrying out of the dumped rubbish on the roadside.

But this is the way most of the world lives, especially in most of Asia.

I took an American family to dinner at a pleasant, clean restaurant, but they stepped back in horror. They'd never seen such a place to eat; built of timber and the tables were basic plastic covered and the seating wooden benches. Our family had eaten there often, but it was a big shock for new arrivals to see how normal people lived and ate. But they ate with us and survived.

These things have to be tackled slowly.

Normal people use timber? Is that a new type of bamboo?

[LarryBird]

Having spent most of a lifetime in a clean, tidy, hygienic environment, it's understandable that folk would experience some sort of culture shock seeing meat on open tables in markets, people handling money then food. On my irregular morning walk around the back sois of Chiang Mai this morning, I saw a few sleek, fat rodents scurrying out of the dumped rubbish on the roadside.

But this is the way most of the world lives, especially in most of Asia.

I took an American family to dinner at a pleasant, clean restaurant, but they stepped back in horror. They'd never seen such a place to eat; built of timber and the tables were basic plastic covered and the seating wooden benches. Our family had eaten there often, but it was a big shock for new arrivals to see how normal people lived and ate. But they ate with us and survived.

These things have to be tackled slowly.

Sometimes, it doesn't go OK though. And spare me the 'could happen anywhere', because it happens here a lot more often. I would hate to see my mother of a retirement age, vomiting her intestines out, because I wanted to come here and run a yoga studio. I have had some serious bouts with food poisoning here, and it's absolutely horrendous.

OP, my friend is looking to buy a yoga studio.. It would a business that would require only about part time work for her to do it. It is a fairly popular studio. Her optimistic figures for what she can profit from it each month are about $300 us.. or 10,000 baht.

[suzannegoh]

Opening a new business in Thailand is a dodgy business. Hope you've done your research about licences and visas.

It's a win-win, not matter how you look at it. Illegal immigrants in the west are scorned, assumed even by presidential candidates to be rapists and murders, but if they come to Thailand that's OK.

Edited August 9, 2015 by suzannegoh

[Just1Voice]

As others have mentioned, there are a whole host of negatives to go against you.

1st - The 51% Thai ownership. If you have a Thai you actually know, and trust, you can avoid that. DO NOT count on lawyers to set it up for you with "Thai Owners" you don't know. I know 3 people who got seriously screwed and damn near lost everything, including their life, doing it that way.

2nd - "Copycat" businesses. If you have a good business going, you can bet your ass that within a year, there will be 3-4-5 others, all within a stones throw, that will open up as well, all taking business from each other, and no one really making any money.

3rd - Cops. You can bet your ass they will come by weekly/monthly, to collect their fee, and you will have NO CHOICE but to pay it. If you don't, they will find a way to shut you down quick, fast, and in a hurry. And it won't do you a damn bit of good to report them to their superiors, as they money they collect from you is also split with their superiors. Reporting them will only result in more headaches for you. Your licenses will come under serious scrutiny, and could easily be "revoked" by them if you don't play ball with them.

My advice to anyone wanting to come here and open a business is - DON'T! Chiang Mai is a wonderful place to retire, I've been doing that for the past 7 years, but no way in hell would I even consider opening a business.

Take it for what it's worth.

[impulse]

If you're bound and determined to go through with it, separate the 2 decisions.

Since your parents won't be working and only need retirement visas, get them over to Thailand. Not much downside and eezy peezy from a paperwork standpoint.

Let them decide later whether to invest in the Yoga studio.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Edited August 9, 2015 by impulse

[stephenterry]

There are a few yoga/spiritual type farang businesses already in Chiang Mai, but they are small outfits attracting mainly tourists. A yoga resort is a different proposition altogether, and IMO hasn't got a chance of getting off the ground without a Thai business partner, influence, and assistance in getting all the legalities and permissions in place. It's a bureaucratic nightmare, in a legal language that is unfathomable, and costs money. And even then, there are any number of hindrances in running the business without falling foul of the locals, the law, and the authorities. In Thailand, money solves all issues - if you have plenty, fine. If not, forget it.

As far as your mother is concerned, if her main worry is uncleanliness, better leave her in Germany, because there are far worse things to worry about.

[khunPer]

It’s a great Idea and I wish you and your parents good luck. Many foreigners have been successful with opening a business in Thailand – and some have failed, the ones you hear most about in “horror stories” and forums – but it’s hard work to establish a business and regular income, and not less work than anywhere else in the World.

Your parents need a Work Permit, if they are going to do any kind of active work in the business – however, being shareholders only (kind of “sleeping partner”) requires no WP. For each foreigner’s WP you normally need to employ 4 Thais, so if 3 of you are going to be active partners in the yoga business, you shall count 12 Thai employees. There are exceptions for some type of business, but I don’t think Yoga is one of them, as there will be Thai yoga instructors available – that you need to check. Foreigners are also expected to receive – or pay tax of – a minimum salary level, typically 40k to 50k baht a month; Immigration may wish to see some kind of proof.

To be granted a WP for a foreigner, besides the requirement for a number of Thai employees, the Thai Co. Ltd. Normally need at least one year’s statement, and showing a profit (pay some company tax). Furthermore the nominal shareholder capital shall to be 2 million baht for the first foreign WP, and additional 1 million baht for each of the following; so if you need 3 Work Permits, your company shall normally have a listed capital of 4 million baht. You will have to check with an lawyer about your actual situation as Yoga Institute, as there might be exceptions

You also need to check with an experienced lawyer about company set-up, as foreigners can only hold 49% - which you seem to be aware of - you may wish to protect your investment some-or-other way. Minimum required number of shareholders is 3, but a Thai national need to hold 51%. There are some ways to protect yourself that a lawyer can inform you about, but they may not hold in a court case, if anything goes wrong. Thai shareholders today need to show proof of funds for their shares; i.e. the 51% that may be 2,040,000 baht.

Foreign employees can be covered by the Social Security scheme – i.e. admission to Thai Government hospitals – but I’m not sure of there are some limitation on age; you’ll need to check that, alternatively a you need heath insurance or a reasonable “Rainy Day account” to cover health (self insured) and other unforeseen situations; always advisable to have a Rainy Day account. The SS is not mandatory for foreigners.

Just some initial thoughts, in case you are not aware.

Wish you all the best with the project.

And PS:

If your mom shops in the major supermarkets, food is safe, probably as safe as home in Germany – and the major super stores like BigC, Tesco and Tops carry a variety of genuine Western products in tourists areas like Chiang May, and Samui – you don’t need to shop on the markets; however some times the markets have good bargains of fruits and vegetables.

Edited August 9, 2015 by khunPer

[sawadee1947]

How old are you?

You need still your parents for any decision of your life?

Concerning the "FEAR" of your parents: they are right. This it not Germany but far away from any hygiene standards. But your parents and yourself can but deep frozen steaks. So, no sweat.

Concerning your business I'm not very optimistic, especially when you want to start in a suburb. There are too many of those "schools" around here for little money. Probably you try better in Germany.

And last the weather here is very hot for elderly people. Let them stay in Germany. They can have even 40 Centigrades and more there..!