Southern separatist leaders state their case to 'end violence'

[webfact]

Southern Separatist Leaders State Their Case to ‘End Violence’
By Khaosod Engkish


Embarking on a campaign of pacification under the government of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the first wave of soldiers arrive in Pattani in this May 2004 file photo.

KUALA LUMPUR — Stepping out of the shadows of their long war against the Thai state, representatives from six separatist groups in southern Thailand said they are willing to lay down their arms if Bangkok formalizes peace talks as a national priority.

In a historic news conference, the representatives spoke with Thai reporters at the Premiera Hotel in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to lay out their aims and expectations after wrapping up talks there with negotiators from Thailand’s military government.

“We formed Mara Patani to make our struggle a peaceful one,” said Awang Jabal, chairman of umbrella organization Mara Patani. “The use of violence and weapons has to go through steps to end violence from both sides. It depends on mutual understanding and trust.”

The Mara Patani delegation was comprised of representatives from the six groups which have been struggling for the secession of Thailand’s three southern border provinces for the past decade. They included: Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN), Gerakan Mujahidin Islam Patani (GMIP), Barisan Islam Pembebasan Patani (BIPP), PULO-DSPP, PULO-MKP and PULO-P4.

Awang, also representing the BRN, said he invited Thai media so they could “understand the true ways of Mara Patani, which are transparent matters,” and to help support a dialogue to bring peace to the three southern provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat.

Ariee Muktar of PULO-MKP said an accurate portrayal of the negotiations by Thai media would help bring peace to the Deep South.

Sukree Hari, a BRN representative, outlined the proposals he said were offered Tuesday to the Thai government team, which has yet to comment on the talks.

Sukree said Mara Patani submitted three preliminary proposals as a condition for peace. Firstly, the Thai government must place the negotiations on the national agenda, which would bring them to the parliament, thus ensuring changes in Thailand’s government would not disrupt the process, as happened the last time talks were brokered.

“Setting this issue as a national agenda is an important matter, because if it is not a national agenda, there will be no continuity in the dialogue,” Sukree said.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1440673999&typecate=06&section=

-- Khaosod English 2015-08-28

[webfact]

SOUTH CRISIS
Rebels want govt to make solving unrest in South a national priority
NAKARIN CHINWORAKOMON,
NATTAPAT PROMKAEW
THE NATION



KUALA LUMPUR: -- A NEW umbrella group for Muslim rebels involved in the insurgency in the Deep South called yesterday for the government to make resolution of the unrest a national priority.

The Mara Patani (Majis Syura Patani) group comprises six rebel groups - three factions of Patani Liberation Organisation (Pulo); the Gerakan Mujahideen Islami Pattani (GMIP), the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) and the Barisan Islam Perberbasan Pattani (BIPP).

Their representatives who met with Thai negotiators in Kuala Lumpur on Tuesday joined the press briefing. Yesterday's meeting was the first peace talks by the government of Prayut Chan-o-cha.

They said the umbrella group is set up so all of the dissidents can discuss developments swiftly with unity. Malaysia has acted as a facilitator of the peace talks.

The umbrella's representatives at the press briefing yesterday were: Arief Mukhtar from the Pulo-MKP; Abu Yasin from the GMIP; Hayimadmut Chuwo from the BRN; Awang Jabat from the BRN, who will also serve as MARA Patani president; Sukree Haree from the BRN who will head the umbrella's negotiating team; Abu Hafit al Hakim from BIPP; and Abuagram Bin Hasan from Pulo.

Awang, the group's chairman, said: "Our principle is to find a solution through peaceful dialogue. We hope we can bring the conflict to an end and promote a lasting peace."

He said Thai representatives at this week’s dialogue were noncommittal, saying they had to consult with the Thai government.

He affirmed that the group's next move would be a good thing, saying his group was different from the previous one (involved in talks with the former regime) as it would be more open for other groups to join. "We will not limit only with the existing six groups but also welcome the non-governmental organisations or civil sector [groups]."

"If all groups gathered under this umbrella, unrest in the deep South could lessen, although that would take some time to achieve. Some groups still disagree with the peace talks, but it must go on," Awang said.

"The establishment of MARA Patani has been done to adopt a peaceful means of fighting. As for the violence and use of arms, there must be steps towards the end of violence from both sides," he said.

Sukree said the August 25 session saw the umbrella representatives ask Thai delegates to accept three demands, which include to make the deep South unrest a national priority to ensure the talks' continue even if the government changes and to accept and provide legal protection for the umbrella group's team of 15 people.

Sukree said the BRN had been fighting since 1960 "underground" but he affirmed the BRN - believed to be the main group active in the region - had no policy to attack "soft targets".

The MARA Patani also said they were considering the Thai requests - the creation of safe zones, life quality development for local residents and the access to justice procedures.

Meanwhile, PM's Office Minister Suwaphan Tanyuvardhana said that both sides were now in the process of building mutual trust and confidence. "Both sides are now putting on the table their opinions and needs and talk if they can be accepted. If there is something that each cannot accept, they will have to discuss it to find a solution," the minister said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Rebels-want-govt-to-make-solving-unrest-in-South-a-30267629.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-28

[EricBerg]

“The use of violence and weapons has to go through steps to end violence from both sides. It depends on mutual understanding and trust.”

Seize those representatives and bring them before a court of law. Only force beat the German RAF, Irish IRA, Italian Red Brigades, Spanish ETA and only force has kicked back HAMAS to their corner. Don't go for the crap of talks with groups that have only one agenda: independance and after that expansion.

[Bluespunk]

The use of violence and weapons has to go through steps to end violence from both sides. It depends on mutual understanding and trust.

Seize those representatives and bring them before a court of law. Only force beat the German RAF, Irish IRA, Italian Red Brigades, Spanish ETA and only force has kicked back HAMAS to their corner. Don't go for the crap of talks with groups that have only one agenda: independance and after that expansion.

The IRA were not beaten as such but came to realise that achieving their goals through violence was never going to happen, violence had failed and another route was required, as did the states they were fighting. Thankfully sanity prevailed all round and this understanding was acted upon and peace talks started that concluded in peace.

Hamas and Israel do not yet have leaders in power at the same time with the courage to follow this path.

Talks must start and be entered into with a determination to end this conflict and bring about peace.

Violence isn't working for either side.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Bluespunk

[noitom]

Seems like a reasonable set of preliminary conditions.

[daoyai]

What about "justice" for the hundreds of murdered school teachers and other non combatents ? will the murderers be the leaders and people of influence?

[bangkokfrog]

What about "justice" for the hundreds of murdered school teachers and other non combatents ? will the murderers be the leaders and people of influence?

I agree with your point, daoyai, but one could also ask about justice for the innocents killed at Tak Bai and Kru Se. Frankly, until the guilty on both sides are held to account, I find it difficult to see how they can find a solution.

[ZuluSixNine]

Don't negotiate with Terrorists!

Those leaders are being supported and sheltered by Malaysia they should be arrested and a complaint made to the UN and the international court against Malaysia for harboring and supporting these people.

Malaysia has allowed these terrorist groups to operate insurgents and threaten the sovereignty of Thailand for years with impunity.

If the situation were reversed were Thai/Buddhist insurgents were attacking Malaysia and its people, I am sure that Malaysia would be crying like a stuck pig in every direction.

Just my opinion

[simple1]

What about "justice" for the hundreds of murdered school teachers and other non combatents ? will the murderers be the leaders and people of influence?

I agree with your point, daoyai, but one could also ask about justice for the innocents killed at Tak Bai and Kru Se. Frankly, until the guilty on both sides are held to account, I find it difficult to see how they can find a solution.

Many insurgencies are finally resolved by a political process, pragmatism often dictates amnesty for those who have committed acts of violence. If this particular initiative actually gets any momentum, the question would be who has the respect of the Juwae to order for them to lay down their arms.

[landslide]

Don't negotiate with Terrorists!

Those leaders are being supported and sheltered by Malaysia they should be arrested and a complaint made to the UN and the international court against Malaysia for harboring and supporting these people.

Malaysia has allowed these terrorist groups to operate insurgents and threaten the sovereignty of Thailand for years with impunity.

If the situation were reversed were Thai/Buddhist insurgents were attacking Malaysia and its people, I am sure that Malaysia would be crying like a stuck pig in every direction.

Just my opinion

"Stuck pig". How apropo.

[Seastallion]

Seize those representatives and bring them before a court of law.

That's not very smart at all. Quite the opposite, actually.

Firstly, what charges and what evidence? These are the leaders, they never touched a bomb, and probably never made a written order.

Secondly, and more importantly, when an enemy comes bearing a white flag and an olive branch, you do not "seize" him and lock him up....that's just stupid in so many serious ways.

[beammeup]

These people dont even represent the groups commiting the violence ("Some groups still disagree with the peace talks, but it must go on,") while the gov would be making consessions they would still be killing. If they could get all the groups to stop the violence, then it would be great.

[Seastallion]

These people dont even represent the groups commiting the violence ("Some groups still disagree with the peace talks, but it must go on,") while the gov would be making consessions they would still be killing. If they could get all the groups to stop the violence, then it would be great.

Well, they probably could stop all the violence if the Thai govt. listened and responded with reason.

Give them what they want. They have valid points, and the oil is almost finished....the area has no economic advantage for Thailand any more.

[Srikcir]

Buddhist Thailand through imperial conquest subjugated Muslim Malays that were willingly part of a Muslim sultanate. Since then there has been a history of discrimination, neglect, and forced assimilation by successive Thai governments, including military juntas.

This conflict is nothing like the German, Irish, Spanish or Italian insurgencies referred by some OP's but almost exactly similar to the Philippine-Muslim conflict. Both in the South and in the Philippines, Muslim populations sought return to an independent Muslim state. The Thai military has never agreed to any degree of sovereignty be allowed the Malay-Thais in the South and it's not a wonder that BRN has considered the current imperial Junta as an obstacle to peace negotiations:

Quotes from The Nation 2015-06-27:

- The BRN says Thai security agencies' old attitudes and standard operating procedures haven't changed.

- Prayut is averse to the idea of MARA Patani because, in the view of the Foreign Ministry, it could lead to an internationalising of the deep South conflict.

- But judging from the meeting in mid-May between Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and top bureaucrats from these ministries and agencies, it appears that these representatives are more interested in protecting their constituencies than in exploring creative ideas to support peace and negotiations.

After the Yingluck regime removed the military from peace process, BRN in 2013 was willing to participate in peace talks. But the anti-government and military coup diverted that process. Yet in spite of a still hostile military-led government, the BRN is trying to establish negotiations. That deserves recognition and will gain support from Malaysia.

But when you look at the details of previous proffered negotiating terms such as autonomy (similar to pre-Russian invasion of Crimea), use of Malay dialect as an alternate language for government offices, bilingual primary education, power to remove errant officials,and justice for past abuses by security forces, there appears to be little if any basis for the Junta to NEGOTIATE instead of DICTATE.

The Jnuta's silence in response is LOUD and CLEAR. Malay-Thais must CAPITULATE.

[EnglishJohn]

What about "justice" for the hundreds of murdered school teachers and other non combatents ? will the murderers be the leaders and people of influence?

I agree with your point, daoyai, but one could also ask about justice for the innocents killed at Tak Bai and Kru Se. Frankly, until the guilty on both sides are held to account, I find it difficult to see how they can find a solution.

Where do you get 'innocent' from ?.

From my understanding, those at Tak Bai were not innocent, they just did not deserve to die in the manner which they did.

Same with the thousands murdered in the war on drugs. You will find these two have just one common denominator.

And Tak Bai is 78 people compared to over 5,000 others dead. Does the death of one of those 78 count for more than a schoolteacher who only ever did good in their life being gunned down and burned ?.

Why is one brought up so frequently and the others dismissed after a cursory paragraph in the news ?.

[lvr181]

How about the "representatives" showing that they can control their violent followers first, as a sign of good faith BEFORE conciliation talks begin? No point in talking otherwise. A peace process cannot really succeed with one hand tied behind your back.

[bangkokfrog]

What about "justice" for the hundreds of murdered school teachers and other non combatents ? will the murderers be the leaders and people of influence?

I agree with your point, daoyai, but one could also ask about justice for the innocents killed at Tak Bai and Kru Se. Frankly, until the guilty on both sides are held to account, I find it difficult to see how they can find a solution.

Where do you get 'innocent' from ?.

From my understanding, those at Tak Bai were not innocent, they just did not deserve to die in the manner which they did.

Same with the thousands murdered in the war on drugs. You will find these two have just one common denominator.

And Tak Bai is 78 people compared to over 5,000 others dead. Does the death of one of those 78 count for more than a schoolteacher who only ever did good in their life being gunned down and burned ?.

Why is one brought up so frequently and the others dismissed after a cursory paragraph in the news ?.

John, I wasn't saying that one life is worth more than another, and think that it is totally wrong to look at things this way. The point I was making was that if the guilty on one side are to be brought to account, the guilty on the other side must also be held accountable for their actions for there to be any chance of reconciliation.

[Gonsalviz]

Muslims will never stop.

[Bluespunk]

Muslims will never stop.

Nor will bigots.

[NickJ]

So have there demands changed? Is a seperate muslim state still one them? How does sharia law fit into the picture, does it?

I think it would be a hand first and then the elbow and then the entire arm.............I remember reading they wanted Phuket.

[Bluespunk]

So have there demands changed? Is a seperate muslim state still one them? How does sharia law fit into the picture, does it?

I think it would be a hand first and then the elbow and then the entire arm.............I remember reading they wanted Phuket.

The conflict is not religious. It is a separatist movement by those who still do not recognise the rule of those who occupied and annexed their country.

Both sides are guilty of appalling violence.

There now appears to be a chance for peace.

Let us hope the leaders on all sides have the courage to take it.

Violence has failed.

To many have suffered and died.

Peace talks are the only way forward.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Bluespunk

[lvr181]

So have there demands changed? Is a seperate muslim state still one them? How does sharia law fit into the picture, does it?

I think it would be a hand first and then the elbow and then the entire arm.............I remember reading they wanted Phuket.

The conflict is not religious. It is a separatist movement by those who still do not recognise the rule of those who occupied and annexed their country.

I do not know what your nationality is Bluespunk but do you think the world should roll back the advance of history for 1000 or 2000 or 3000 years so that those who have been "annexed" in any way can have their original lands back? Not practical is it? I thought the UK had a hand in defining the territory that would belong to Siam at the end of World War 2? Correct me if I am wrong.

Perhaps the Thai and Malaysian governments should be negotiating a return to Malaysia of the dissidents who are unhappy in Thailand?

[simple1]

So have there demands changed? Is a seperate muslim state still one them? How does sharia law fit into the picture, does it?

I think it would be a hand first and then the elbow and then the entire arm.............I remember reading they wanted Phuket.

The conflict is not religious. It is a separatist movement by those who still do not recognise the rule of those who occupied and annexed their country.

I do not know what your nationality is Bluespunk but do you think the world should roll back the advance of history for 1000 or 2000 or 3000 years so that those who have been "annexed" in any way can have their original lands back? Not practical is it? I thought the UK had a hand in defining the territory that would belong to Siam at the end of World War 2? Correct me if I am wrong.

Perhaps the Thai and Malaysian governments should be negotiating a return to Malaysia of the dissidents who are unhappy in Thailand?

The British handed over the territory to the then King of Siam under the Anglo Siam Treaty of 1909.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Siamese_Treaty_of_1909

Tell us what Malaysia would gain in hosting thousands of insurgents against their wishes.

Sharia Civil Law has been in-place in a number of Thai provinces since 1948. The majority of Thai Muslims live outside of the deep South, as far as I know they have not requested Sharia Criminal Law, that in any case would be refused.

Edited September 1, 2015 by simple1

[Bangkok Herps]

“The use of violence and weapons has to go through steps to end violence from both sides. It depends on mutual understanding and trust.”

Seize those representatives and bring them before a court of law. Only force beat the German RAF, Irish IRA, Italian Red Brigades, Spanish ETA and only force has kicked back HAMAS to their corner. Don't go for the crap of talks with groups that have only one agenda: independance and after that expansion.

Just completely wrong and ahistorical. I suggest, at a bare minimum, you read Malcolm Gladwell's chapter on the use of force in insurgencies in "David and Goliath". He focuses on the IRA - the Brits came into Catholic neighborhoods with overwhelming force at the very beginning, and THAT, more than anything else, is what launched the next 30 years of violence. Gladwell does a good job of showing why reliance on force DOESN'T work for combating local insurgencies, and the true limits of power.

The RAF finally died because their supporters on the Soviet side dissolved, not because of overwhelming German force.

Because of the reliance on force, the Spain-ETA conflict was the longest ongoing conflict in Europe (52 years!). Franco was not afraid of using force and violence on them in the early years, and that only escalated the conflict. It didn't end until several attempted cease-fires and peace negotiations culminated in an (apparently) lasting one now.

The constant attempts to ground everything on force in Palestine is why that's a 70-year-old intractable conflict no closer to being solved today as it was when it started. Do the Israelis feel safe today? Are they happy with where things are at? Why do you suggest they continue trying to do the same thing that's failed to work for 70 years?

Those are quite awful examples to try to use to show why using force "works". Most of those conflicts lasted 4 decades or more, and force showed itself to be as useless or worse at the end as it was in the beginning.