"thai Government Created New Way For Foreigners To Purchase Land In Thailand"

[johnnyk]

Here it is: http://www.thailongstay.co.th

As i said earlier, it is a company incooperated by the goverment (TAT...) that buys the land for you and leases it to you by guaranteeing 30 years renewal. A;ong comes a year visa, not sure what kind and if you can apply for work permits. You can also lease only one property, which is also not clear what that means exactly. This scheme is tailored to "vacationers" who want a little beach house to retire in.

Basically it is a good approach in the right direction, but it has to be backed up legally, an in all aspects. How secure is your investment? How is the company structured that hold your title? Who are the share holders? Governments change over time, companies close down. And by law a lease can be still only 30 years. Koh Samui in not an exception.

I saw this webpage months ago and have looked at it more than once.

I still have not seen where it says it is a government agency/company/department/corporation. 30% ownership simply means the gov. or some politicians put some money into a scam to fleece people who can't think for themselves. The Elite Card was a similar scheme that delivered nothing and this is simply Son of Elite Card.

IMO, it is a private company trying to fool falangs into thinking it is an arm of the government.

QUOTE: "Through our partnerships, TLM provides one-stop-service for long stay tourists in a variety of services and benefits; mobile phone with SIM card (WITH 1-2 Call SIM CARD - NATURALLY!-GO TO A PHONE SHOP & BUY YOUR OWN), an exclusive privilege from TLM partners’ including saving bank account (GO TO ANY BANK), accident and health insurance (GO TO BUPA & OTHERS), medical services (GO TO A HOSPITAL), special attention by tourist police(? 555). As well, TLM provide a 24-hour call center service (IN ENGLISH? I BET) to provide information for our members’ needs."

Read closely, it offers nothing you cannot get on your own except the 24-hour call centre. Special TP attention and call centre are not exactly tangible benefits.

They also wanted to act as an agent with an exclusive and highly restrictive contract to rent my house and neighbours' houses to vacationers. The conditions were so ridiculous I don't know anyone who went for it, most laughed at it.

As I said in a previous post, show us the government documents such as acts of parliament, directives, decrees etc etc.

Edited October 8, 2006 by astral

[Dragonman]

Hey real estate boys, if the gov't has indeed created this "new way" just show us the documents that say it is so.

Hey Johnny,

It's not true, the gov't did not create such contract.

It's just a marketing stunt from some real estate agent in Los.

Kind regards,

Thaibel Asia

Here it is: http://www.thailongstay.co.th

As i said earlier, it is a company incooperated by the goverment (TAT...) that buys the land for you and leases it to you by guaranteeing 30 years renewal. A;ong comes a year visa, not sure what kind and if you can apply for work permits. You can also lease only one property, which is also not clear what that means exactly. This scheme is tailored to "vacationers" who want a little beach house to retire in.

Basically it is a good approach in the right direction, but it has to be backed up legally, an in all aspects. How secure is your investment? How is the company structured that hold your title? Who are the share holders? Governments change over time, companies close down. And by law a lease can be still only 30 years. Koh Samui in not an exception.

Yes Privilege Cards. Be careful of Companies set up by the former PM's Cabinet!

[adamstanborough]

To all it may concern, Please log onto www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/

You will be able to fing all the details you need regarding this post

Many Thanks

[johnnyk]

You will find a company set up under the ancien regime with a supposed gov't imprimatur and that provides nothing tangible youcan't get on your own in a day.

All for only 72K baht..at the time a nice even 1000 sterling.

Basically, just another Toxin crony ripoff.

[Khun Jean]

Sometimes people have trouble understanding the Thai law, and are naive about how some realestate companies work. For this company there is only one word. And to make it clear so nobody can misunderstand it i made the word a little bit bigger and in red.

The information on this brochure/website is NOT TRUE

There is NO NEW LAW.

Perpetual 30 year leases DO NOT EXIST.

So to be even shorter and more clear.

This is a SCAM!!

And if the company who made that brochure and website think i am talking BS.

PROOF IT! Show the TAT papers, Show the excerpts from the Thai law.

Would not be so difficult if it was true.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Khun Jean

[Khun Jean]

Just to add some substance to take away the doubt here a modified and corrected for the truth FAQ.

VIP was set up to accommodate and act as an agent for a foreigner investing in property in Thailand.

The structure the VIP is offering will allow a foreign investor to own perpetual leasehold. This basically means the lease will renew every 30 years for a period of 30 years forever (in perpetuity).

A perpetual lease does not exist. It is not enforcable and easy to avoid for the owner. He just sells it to someone else and your right to extend is gone!.

They talk here about a usefruct which is until you die. If the owner agrees, and why should he agree to loose a lot of money, you can put someone else on the usefruct if you feel your end is near.

Furthermore, with subscribing to the Vacation Investment Program, foreigners will benefit from a 1-year visa. This is a real privilege as on the 1st of October, foreigners will only be permitted to a 90-day visa. To get a new visa, foreigners must stay at least 90 days out of Thailand.

This would be the normal investment visa. Has nothing to do with a subscription to the VIP. They ask money for something that is easy available.

Further to this, VIP will instil confidence in the real estate profession by granting licences to developers who pass certain criteria. Only these licensed firms will be allowed to use VIP services. This will benefit all parties involved.

Only works with people who have only one braincell more than is absolutely necessary to maintain bodily functions. For the rest it is clear that the only benefit is for this company.

And here some real answer to their FAQ.

1. What does VIP stand for?

VIP stands for Vacation Investment Program Very Indecent Ploy.

2. Why buy VIP when I can legally buy leasehold in Thailand anyway?

Yes, you can legally buy leasehold in Thailand for a 30 year period only; this can be extended only after the 30 year term is complete, which is not always guaranteed. With resale of the current lease terms, say Mr. A sells his lease after 15 years to Mr. B, Mr. B will only acquire the remaining 15 years. (That part ws true!)

With VIP you are buying a perpetual lease of 30 years usefruct which is very cheap but not with VIP you pay through the nose. This means you can not renew your lease at any given time and onif you get a renewal you get a further 30 years automatically upon paying more money than for your first 30 year lease.Also with VIP when MR. A sells his property after 20 years to Mr. B, Mr. B gets a new 30 year the remainder of the lease and not 10 years as with the previous lease hold set-up.[

3. Is this not another loophole in the law, currently like the 51%/49% company set-up?

NO, this is not a loophole in the law like the current setup for foreigners to purchase property. In fact they are using procedures that are completely legal and do not by pass any law unlike the current set-up. It is so easy to do do you don't actually need us to do it for you anyway. We just want to take your money for normal standard procedures.

4. I already have a Thai company what do I do now?

If you currently have a Thai company set up with other nominees, we advise you to switch to the VIP if the shareholders are only “nominees”. Indeed, companies with Thai nominees may be investigated and may shut down if it can not be proved that the shareholders have invested in the company’s capital.

That is actually good advice.

5. Do the current events have any effects on the VIP?

NO, the non existent current effects can only strengthen buyer confidence through VIP as VIP was created via government departments and not the Prime Minister who is now in London shopping. Any new government will be investigating the scams of the previous one and adapt its strategy as it was created to attract more foreign buyers.[/s]

6. We are struggling to both get 6-month visa due to the new regulations that came into force on the 1st October, so if you know any way around this, I would appreciate it!

Great news, you don't need with VIP you are automatically entitled to join TLM which will issue you and your partner a 1 year Visa.[/s]

7. When will VIP be effective?

You can now apply for VIP, please fill out the customer enquiry form.

We want your money as soon as possible.

8. I currently live in Phuket, can I apply for VIP to be applicable on my property here?

Unfortunately Happy to inform you VIP is only available on properties on Koh Samui at present. The rest of Thailand will be ablespared to apply for VIP to the property in the very near future.

9. What guarantees do I get that if the freeholder of the lease sells the property/land that I am not evicted?

As you the buyer are the legal leasehold owner (your name now appears on the back of the land title) it is impossible to sell the property without your consent. Also the freeholder in this case is a protected company and not an individual.

10. If I understand correctly, I would lease the property from VIP for as long as I wish? And what if I want to sell my property, what happens then?

Yes, you would lease the property from VIP, but you would have your OWN NAME on the back of the Land Title! And you have that lease forever for thirty year, so if you wish to sell your property the new buyer gets a new 30 year perpetual the remainder of the lease with its name transferred onto the Land Title.

11. What happens if I pass away? Can I pass the land title on as inheritance?

In the very unlikely event the buyer passes away, the lease land title can be transferred to the relevant relative. On transfer of the title a new 30 year lease will be created the remainder of the lease is transfered and names transferred.

12. Who decides the renewal fees and what are the costs?

The renewal fees for a questionable and unenforceable 30-year additional lease are set by the land office. Fees are approximately 30,000 THB. It is calculated at 1% of the land rental value.

13. How many properties can I purchase under VIP?

Luckely for the naive and stupid they are protected by the currently VIP scheme is set-up for an individual to purchase one property.

14. Is VIP restricted for personal use or can a business purchase through VIP?

VIP is open to any individual who purchases property for residential purpose only.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Khun Jean

[smartecosse]

excellent editing there

[Nadia 2]

I can remember a discussion on this forum about 6 months ago where a bank in Bangkok was offering to buy property on behalf of foreigners and then lease it back to the foreigner with an option to renew? I have not heard about that any more.

Most potential buyers know that company ownership is not the way to go, but don't like leasehold because of the 30 limit which makes it a wasting asset. Perpetual leasehold is nonsense.

The idea is not new but does not work. I would say it is illegal as this VIP company would acquire the land under section 96 of the Land Code, as the owner in place of an alien, which contravenes section 113 of the Code. The government has not change the .

Section 96 of the Land Code; 'When it appears that any person (like VIP) has acquired land as the owner in place of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 and 98, the Director-General shall have the authority to dispose of such land and the provisions of Section 94 shall apply mutatis mutandis'.

From the info; 'VIP was set up to accommodate and act as an agent for a foreigner investing in property in Thailand'

Section 113 of the Land Code: 'Any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 or 98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding two years, or both'.

I have not seen any information suggesting that there is a special status for this VIP company or why the law should not apply on this company.

From their info: Further to this, VIP will instil confidence in the real estate profession by granting licences to developers who pass certain criteria. Only these licensed firms will be allowed to use VIP services. This will benefit all parties involved.

What is their (VIP) definition of licensed? Bangkok Post July 24 about Samui:

'People interested in buying property on the resort island of Koh Samui have been warned they could end up with an illegal title, as only 10% of the property developers operating there are licensed..... Land authorities and local administration organisation officials should take action against all illegal developers. Charoen Chanparn, a Koh Samui land official, said his office had already begun closer scrutiny of every property development project on the island. Paitoon Lertkrai, a Surat Thani provincial land official, said that last year only one property developer, Choeng Mon Property Co, was registered to do business on Koh Samui'.

According to this article Samui Estate is apparently not a licensed developer. The other marketing stunt I was surprised by iss the Monttara project, offering 10% price appreciation guarantee AND buy back for three years… Note - land speculation in Samui got a serious blow and the price of land has drastically dropped the last 6 months. Buy back (if they sold anything) - Heng would have to sell his brand new Mercedes sport coupe first. Real estate speculation, at least for the moment has gone in Samui.

In addition to these unlicensed developments; A quote Samui Community July15:

'..............The Interior Ministry has urged all provincial CEO's to keep an eye on attempts to divide big pieces of land up to smaller plots, so as to avoid having to apply for permission to run a property development business. The Ministry concern follows evidence of groups of people attempting to divide up land into smaller plots of less than 10 plots, with roads connecting to each of them and the layout of the main road suggesting that the site may later be transformed into development property. The Ministry has therefore declared that any land divided up into smaller plots together with road connections, amounting less than 10 smaller plots of similar size will be count as development property and will require owners to apply for permission to manage the property.

Those who fail to comply with the rules will be punished. The ministry has also sent officers to check whether there has been any attempt to advertise development properties that have not yet gained permission from the Ministry to be developed and sold, or not sold, as development property. The ministry will pursue those who break the law.

It is expected that Samui's property business will be affected by this new regulation. However, considering what we have lost, half of the island, it is time for us all to rethink and reorganize the whole property development business, as the government up to now has failed to control these dealings. As a result, Samui inevitably suffers environmental problems; some consumers have been taken advantage of; and investors get away with avoiding paying tax'.

By the way - it is possible to check who is managing these companies, if you apply for a username and login on the www.dbd.go.th website you can find information like who are the directors, share capital, did the file their yearly accounts, etc. (but you must be able to read Thai).

[watchoutfarang]

I would seriously ask anyone who is dealing with this particular real estate company to re-consider. I know this is my firstpost and not meant to be a 'flame' but these guys bamboozle you with sweet talk and give little info on thai law. They are of course eager to point you in the right direction of an impartial (for this read affiliated) Samui lawyer who will tell you anything you wish to hear. Nice offices though and the water they provide is drinkable - but beware I have been burnt by these people.

Cheers

watchoutfarang

[Boysy]

:oh my god I've got a headache. Was on the way over to buy land in Hua Hin to build a house, and then hopefully sell off excess plots, but after reading this I think I'm on my way back to the Middle East.

I assume there is no way (safely) that you can do what I want, and building my house on someone elses land doesn't quite make sense to me!!

Has anyone else done what I want, and lived to tell the tale.

bah:

"they were launching a " perpetual leashold " as a way to get around current laws"

"They"? Be careful! In the backroom of the sales office, they might also have a perpetual motion machine, a case of Noni juice, and a room-temperature fission reactor.

I'm afraid "they" are now living in Singapore, Uk, or some other area, so don't count much.

Actually it was the Ministry of Interior who suggested such some time ago. It was not to the Senate's liking, as only 7 years ago they turned down the Ministry's suggestion for a 50 year lease.

In case people get carried away, perpetual leases can be anything from 30 years to 999 years and do not mean forever. Popular in Australia and Guantanamo Bay.

[thaigene2]

You cannot own land in Thailand unless you are Thai. If you want a house you either rent one or lease one that resides on land owned by a Thai.

Leaseholds are 30 years. So if you "buy" a house as a foreigner you are in effect renting it anyway - for 30 years. But you're paying all the rent up front. Make sense? Not to me.

This lease and lease-to-purchase nonesense is a shell game being offered. It's also being offered with a slightly more respectable face by Hampton's International (thailand) Co. Ltd.

But it's Same-Same I'm afraid. That company holds the title - not in your name - but in its own name. Meanwhile you pay down the "mortgage" that they arrange through a Thai bank for 30 years or whatever - again title is in their name - as they are a "Thai" company. Then 'apparently' after the 30 years have passed you get the title if you've married a Thai (goes into her name) or you re-lease for a 'nominal' fee. Meanwhile the company uses this leverage of your house/land that IT OWNS, to do other things. Maybe build condos, etc? What if they go bankrupt 10 years from now?

You have zero protection and a very dodgy promise of having anything at all once you've paid THEIR mortgage on THEIR house/land!

[johnnyk]

Not much more than glorified time-share in my opinion.

[astral]

To all it may concern, Please log onto www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/

You will be able to fing all the details you need regarding this post

Many Thanks

I can only assume you are a farang brought into Thailand recently to give face to this "scheme"

and that you believe the utter rubbish posted on the web site.

Khun Jean exposes all the holes in what your company is claiming.

I feel sorry for you and suggest you find a better job before the whole house of cards falls on top of you.

[merlion]

:oh my god I've got a headache. Was on the way over to buy land in Hua Hin to build a house, and then hopefully sell off excess plots, but after reading this I think I'm on my way back to the Middle East.

I assume there is no way (safely) that you can do what I want, and building my house on someone elses land doesn't quite make sense to me!!

Has anyone else done what I want, and lived to tell the tale.

bah:

"they were launching a " perpetual leashold " as a way to get around current laws"

"They"? Be careful! In the backroom of the sales office, they might also have a perpetual motion machine, a case of Noni juice, and a room-temperature fission reactor.

I'm afraid "they" are now living in Singapore, Uk, or some other area, so don't count much.

Actually it was the Ministry of Interior who suggested such some time ago. It was not to the Senate's liking, as only 7 years ago they turned down the Ministry's suggestion for a 50 year lease.

In case people get carried away, perpetual leases can be anything from 30 years to 999 years and do not mean forever. Popular in Australia and Guantanamo Bay.

For goodness sake, if you like seaside/city/or whatever living, buy freehold condos that command great views on high floors with amenities abound. Checkout the papers!

[1Rai.com]

1Rai.com is a Web portal promoting the Thailand Real Estate industry, so it is not really my place to talk about the legitimacy of the VIP program. I do, however, know a lot about the marketing of real estate.

I do know that real estate in Thailand, like most things in most countries, has good, professional, trustworthy people as well as a few bad apples. It is the nature of the agent to differentiate their business, and, if they want to operate in the long-term, all agents should do it truthfully. That's why people choose to use long-established agencies - because they are less likely to encounter problems.

When looking for property, or any product for that matter, it is important to use more than one source - otherwise you're missing the bigger picture. So, sure, check the VIP program out with their independent lawyer; then go and see another couple of independent lawyers and maybe another agency or three.

That's the whole reason we created www.1rai.com - so buyers can see accurate and comprehensive listings of available deals, all in the same place, so you can see who are the big players and what they have on their books. And usually the big players haven't just bought their way into the market.

[womble]

Quite simply anyone can offer a perpetual leasehold but........

After 30 years the landlord does not have to honour the contract. So you can have it in writing but it is not enforceable by law as the courts only recognise leases up to 30 years, 50 years in very exceptional circumstances and with prior permission.

Thailand longstay is 30% owned by TAT, they are selling a product that is of no use whatsover. You can get a 30 year lease without their help, an to have an extension after the expiry of 30 years cannot be garanteed. Similar to elite card with the 1 rai land ownership it will fail legally as thai law states leases can only be had for 30 years.

A law will have to be changed before this is any use.

Frankly i'm shocked that they are allowed to market it!

This isn't so much the fault of the propety agent, it is the fault of Thailand long stay and TAT for not reigning them in.

Anyone wanna write a letter to TAT and see what they say?

Anyone know who the right person to contact for clarification is?

[number6]

great do it and dont complain when sky falls on your heads

[johnnyk]

1Rai.com is a Web portal promoting the Thailand Real Estate industry, so it is not really my place to talk about the legitimacy of the VIP program. I do, however, know a lot about the marketing of real estate.

I do know that real estate in Thailand, like most things in most countries, has good, professional, trustworthy people as well as a few bad apples. It is the nature of the agent to differentiate their business, and, if they want to operate in the long-term, all agents should do it truthfully. That's why people choose to use long-established agencies - because they are less likely to encounter problems.

When looking for property, or any product for that matter, it is important to use more than one source - otherwise you're missing the bigger picture. So, sure, check the VIP program out with their independent lawyer; then go and see another couple of independent lawyers and maybe another agency or three.

That's the whole reason we created www.1rai.com - so buyers can see accurate and comprehensive listings of available deals, all in the same place, so you can see who are the big players and what they have on their books. And usually the big players haven't just bought their way into the market.

Nice ad.

Too cheap to buy a banner?

[Gary A]

It takes some doing to make a used car salesman seem reputable but this ad does it.

[Crossy]

Nice ad.

Too cheap to buy a banner?

Nope, it's at the top of the page (I'm not affiliated with 1Rai, just observant )

[1Rai.com]

Nice ad.

Too cheap to buy a banner?

Nope, it's at the top of the page (I'm not affiliated with 1Rai, just observant )

Oh, thank you very much for pointing that out Crossy! I'm fairly sure the Thaivisa.com moderators would have seen and edited my post fairly quickly, unless I already had a banner ad.

Actually, the Thaivisa.com forum sponsorship rates are quite reasonable; and as an independent Thai Web portal, I reckon an independent Thai info Web portal like Thaivisa.com is a very good place to showcase our site.

Our database also feeds the property section for Sawadee.com.

[1Rai.com]

It takes some doing to make a used car salesman seem reputable but this ad does it.

I'm not sure I'd call myself a salesperson, but I suppose I should take this as a compliment!

[johnnyk]

Nice ad.

Too cheap to buy a banner?

Nope, it's at the top of the page (I'm not affiliated with 1Rai, just observant )

Oh, thank you very much for pointing that out Crossy! I'm fairly sure the Thaivisa.com moderators would have seen and edited my post fairly quickly, unless I already had a banner ad.

Actually, the Thaivisa.com forum sponsorship rates are quite reasonable; and as an independent Thai Web portal, I reckon an independent Thai info Web portal like Thaivisa.com is a very good place to showcase our site.

Our database also feeds the property section for Sawadee.com.

And I was too quick on the trigger.

My apologies for being snarky.

[churchill]

There is an artice about this in yesterday's Samui Community Paper which seems to give credence to the scheme . I think the main points are that a farang can have his name on the back of the land paper and that when he sells the land the next owner will get another 30 year lease , rather than the remainder of the initial 30 years .

There is a web site www.longstay.co.th which gives more info . This scheme will apparently be open through several approved estate agents ?? !

[churchill]

According to article official launch at Government House in Bangkok in November

[gazza1]

There is an artice about this in yesterday's Samui Community Paper which seems to give credence to the scheme . I think the main points are that a farang can have his name on the back of the land paper and that when he sells the land the next owner will get another 30 year lease , rather than the remainder of the initial 30 years .

There is a web site www.longstay.co.th which gives more info . This scheme will apparently be open through several approved estate agents ?? !

1) The website you have posted is for adventure holidays which i wouldnt want to do fro 30 years!

2) Samui Community Paper isnt exactly a national paper with correct fact...its just fed information.

3) As far as i understand it Samui Estate Corp are exclusive agents. What does this do to the other agents on the island? What about the lawyers?...they will not be needed either.

Your thoughts?

[churchill]

Web site should have been thailongstay.com - sorry

I don't think Samui Estate are exclusive agents - they are just the 1st to be pushing it - and from what I understand it is not exclusive to Samui , why should it be .

The scheme has been set up in conjunction with the thai tourism authority I think - They are also saying that there are other benefits such as year visa's and fast track immigation on arrival .

I have throw the article away now so cannot be too specific .

[onlooker]

There is a web site www.longstay.co.th which gives more info . This scheme will apparently be open through several approved estate agents ?? !

Come on people, have a bit of sense and dont fall for glossy marketing. It's an usufruct, available anywhere in Thailand on any plot of Chanote / Nor Sor 3 kor land. Not in anyway unique to Samui . . .other than there are maybe more cashed-up, gullible people on Samui than elsewhere.

[johnnyk]

One of the keys to the thailongstay company is that the government (ancien regime, unowho) invested in 30% of its shares on start-up.

Simply put, IMO, this was a way for certain insiders to finance their own scheme with taxpayers' money.

As this outfit was a creation, or at least midwifed, under the ancien regime it may be on shaky ground these days. I certainly wouldn't have anything to do with it.

Edited October 20, 2006 by johnnyk

[gazza1]

There is a web site www.longstay.co.th which gives more info . This scheme will apparently be open through several approved estate agents ?? !

Come on people, have a bit of sense and dont fall for glossy marketing. It's an usufruct, available anywhere in Thailand on any plot of Chanote / Nor Sor 3 kor land. Not in anyway unique to Samui . . .other than there are maybe more cashed-up, gullible people on Samui than elsewhere.

USUFRUCT being the right to derive profit from a property? Would you lay out the intitial money to purchase (lease) a property in usufruct?

WIth VIP scheme you are laying out the intitial money to purchase the property.

From what i hear the agent in question has exclusive rights.