"not to lump everyone together who has a weight problem"

[robblok]

I agree that's a huge benefit to find ways to limit appetite and still not feel either overly hungry or deprived of enjoying food. I think that's the natural state for people without weight control issues. Of course hunger is very useful. So you're hungry when you eat that is good. But modern people tend to eat based on the clock and social pressures instead of hunger. Becoming overly hungry is a danger zone for many as it can trigger overeating. Our natural state is uncertainty about the next meal. Modern world very for from that for so many.

I guess I am one of those people without weight control issues. Yet, I am do experience some state of hunger quite often during the day and evening, it's just that I don't call it that and I don't feel any undue pain or discomfort.

For me, I only really say I am hungry when my stomach is rumbling or I start feeling some hunger pangs. Sometimes if I work out I feel a bit jittery and trembly afterwards. Anything less than this I suppose I would say is feeling a bit peckish, and this I start to feel about an hour or so after eating a meal and is a state easily lived with.

Feeling peckish is assuaged, for me anyway, by walking, drinking tea or coffee, becoming immersed in something like the internet, working, and just conversing with friends, just ordinary everday activities that make you think less of your body, feelings and emotions.

Perhaps I've missed something but I would suggest this is a template for the natural state of us skinnies. I have to admit I just asumed it was the same for everyone.

Edit : I used to teach at a university. Come last period before lunchtime, you could visibly see students starting to get hungry. Sometimes I used to ask them how hungry, you's get a chorus in reply " very, very hue (hungry in Thai)". Other times I would jokingly ask if they wanted to go on another 10 mins. You can imagine I never got a yes. I'd imagine then that 3-4 hours had elapsed since they's eaten properly. Most if not all were hungry as they'd head in a bunch down to the canteen. And it's reasonable to assume that they hadn't suddenly just become hungry. So this for me defines a normal state for most people. It's what we live with and nobody should really be feeling unduly uncomfortable imo.

Its not that i feel discomfort when I am hungry however when I am doing computer work and hungry the hunger takes over distracting me a lot causing me to work slower until i take care of that feeling. If I feel like that and I am walking (not near food) or swimming or doing something else I could probably ignore it completely. I do remember when I was younger skipping meals when building rafts or running outside was quite easy. The mind and body was otherwise occupied. With computer work I need my brain and the hunger is just a distraction.

Good point on your E cigarettes but so much slips through customs that is not legal so I am quite sure if one tried a few times it would work. Not going that way just yet but it is real interesting. My reason for not doing it is that I have seen how hard it is for my brother to quite smoking. I might want to quit vaping then and it might be real hard. (strange actually as I have no such fears with most recreational drugs)

[robblok]

Jingthing is a major contributor to food threads.

Now I'm PRESUMING there is a weight issue. Doesn't bother me.

Now saying don't put everyone together is ok if you are talking about medical conditions like a underactive thyroid but let's be honest 90 percent of the time it's not.

We reach a time in our lives sometime where we give up or don't care. I've recently put on 15 kg in about 2 years and I know why because I like a beer and I like a snack after a beer, always have.

Only difference now to before is I am not active.

I realize I need to make a choice now otherwise it will be much harder.

I don't need othera to shame me. I'm ashamed myself. If they choose to shame me then I will agree with them.

Choose you path and go with it. We make choices every day and we live with them.

If you eat and drink to much you will probably get fat. I don't see how you can disagree with somebodys opinion of you because of that.

If you do thing's counter productive to your lifespan (drugs, smoking,drinking,or reckless behaviour people will always have an opinion

I like your attitude its like mine, you see a problem and you decide to do something or not depending on what you think is important. That is good, and the whole point I often make that being overweight (if no real medical reasons) is partly a choice. Now I am not saying its easy for everyone as not everyone has the same hunger feelings.

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

[singa-traz]

Starting smoking?

How about Crack/Cocaine? Could that solve the food craving problem?

I think there are other, safer alternative to try before.

Google "Urge Surfing".

You can also have a look at this video:

[MaeJoMTB]

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

No shaming from me, I don't interact with fat people.

Same as I don't associate with drunks, druggies, smokers and other compulsives.

[mommysboy]

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

No shaming from me, I don't interact with fat people.

Same as I don't associate with drunks, druggies, smokers and other compulsives.

Blimey! that's just about everybody in Thailand out then !! Thunderbirds are go !

[h90]

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

No shaming from me, I don't interact with fat people.

Same as I don't associate with drunks, druggies, smokers and other compulsives.

That is hard.......

[h90]

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

No shaming from me, I don't interact with fat people.

Same as I don't associate with drunks, druggies, smokers and other compulsives.

Blimey! that's just about everybody in Thailand out then !! Thunderbirds are go !

smokers

drunks

fat

that indeed covers lot of people.

[singa-traz]

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

No shaming from me, I don't interact with fat people.

Same as I don't associate with drunks, druggies, smokers and other compulsives.

That is hard.......

A strong statement for sure, but may have it's merit.

When you have a personal goal, do you want to be surounded by people who fail at this goal or people who succeed at this goal?

I rather be around people with a "can and will do" attitude.

Edited October 29, 2015 by singa-traz

[h90]

Anyway I would never shame anyone, (unless complaining about their weight while swigging beers or eating at a fast food restaurant) and then only if it was a friend and it would not be shaming but pointing out his / her habits were part of the problem.

No shaming from me, I don't interact with fat people.

Same as I don't associate with drunks, druggies, smokers and other compulsives.

That is hard.......

A strong statement for sure, but may have it's merit.

When you have a personal goal, do you want to be surounded by people who fail at this goal or people who succeed at this goal?

I rather be around people with a "can and will do" attitude.

True.....but if you tell it somewhere different the fatty-taliban will stone you.

Look up fat shaming on google......

[chiang mai]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11963385/Cut-out-carbs-not-fat-if-you-want-to-lose-weight-Harvard-study-finds.html

[robblok]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11963385/Cut-out-carbs-not-fat-if-you-want-to-lose-weight-Harvard-study-finds.html

Yes read about that too, but to take pasta as an example is stupid, its mainly about processed carbs closer to sugar that cause the problem. A wholewheat pasta would not cause too much trouble in fact we need carbs. However taking too many carbs especially Hi GI carbs can cause an insulin spike and that is real bad as that promotes fat storage.

I like all those articles but the problem with health articles from newspapers is that they are often not well written and taking the real research out of context. If you really want to learn something go to the real studies or read stuff from lyle mcdonald.

[ravip]

Obese men have just a '1 in 210' chance of attaining a healthy body weight >>> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/obese-men-have-just-a-1-in-210-chance-of-attaining-a-healthy-body-weight-10394887.html

[Jingthing]

Obese men have just a '1 in 210' chance of attaining a healthy body weight >>> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/obese-men-have-just-a-1-in-210-chance-of-attaining-a-healthy-body-weight-10394887.html

It's hard to know if those exact odds are accurate, but it isn't news at all to informed people that the odds of LONG TERM reversal of obesity to the point of both getting to and maintaining a "healthy" weight are very low indeed.

Expect the moral lecturers to attack this fact but it is a fact nonetheless.

The vast majority of obese people would do their MENTAL HEALTH a favor and to be REALISTIC and accept lesser goals than that as successes as well.

In other words, for a mature adult to hate themselves for their "failure" to achieve the body of a fit 18 year old is just stupid. Focus on more realistic chances of success, like losing 5 or 10 percent of current body weight and maintaining that. The health benefits of that are often dramatic even if not cosmetically wonderful.

In my opinion, absurdly unrealistic dreams and expectations given the medical realities feeds more of these failed attempts. When people realize how remote their chances are of looking like a male model EVER, after repeated attempts over many years, they often get discouraged and depressed and make things even worse.

As I've been saying for years, societies all over the world need to put much more attention on PREVENTION especially in youth, especially considering the harsh realities of the poor odds when obesity is not prevented.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[h90]

Obese men have just a '1 in 210' chance of attaining a healthy body weight >>> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/obese-men-have-just-a-1-in-210-chance-of-attaining-a-healthy-body-weight-10394887.html

It's hard to know if those exact odds are accurate, but it isn't news at all to informed people that the odds of LONG TERM reversal of obesity to the point of both getting to and maintaining a "healthy" weight are very low indeed.

Expect the moral lecturers to attack this fact but it is a fact nonetheless.

The vast majority of obese people would do their MENTAL HEALTH a favor and to be REALISTIC and accept lesser goals than that as successes as well.

In other words, for a mature adult to hate themselves for their "failure" to achieve the body of a fit 18 year old is just stupid. Focus on more realistic chances of success, like losing 5 or 10 percent of current body weight and maintaining that. The health benefits of that are often dramatic even if not cosmetically wonderful.

In my opinion, absurdly unrealistic dreams and expectations given the medical realities feeds more of these failed attempts. When people realize how remote their chances are of looking like a male model EVER, after repeated attempts over many years, they often get discouraged and depressed and make things even worse.

As I've been saying for years, societies all over the world need to put much more attention on PREVENTION especially in youth, especially considering the harsh realities of the poor odds when obesity is not prevented.

Really don't know what to write.....

Your point is: just don't even try it, as it is pointless....

Short version:

Want to be slim: You have to complete change your life, what you eat, what you drink, what you think, what you do, than it is no problem.

Want to make a diet, be slim and the continue what you think is a normal life: It won't work and you might even end with a few kg more...Don't even try it.

[ravip]

I guess the most important factor is to Set SMART goals!

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/weight-loss/in-depth/weight-loss/art-20048224

[Jingthing]

I guess the most important factor is to Set SMART goals!

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/weight-loss/in-depth/weight-loss/art-20048224

Exactly my point. Thank you.

[Mooner]

As we get older we put on weight as we probably eat the same or more than we did before and generally exercise less.

So we are left with two options to remain slim.

Exercise more with a similar diet or exercise less and improve your diet. Not rocket science. Simple cause and effect with no excuses!

[Jingthing]

As we get older we put on weight as we probably eat the same or more than we did before and generally exercise less.

So we are left with two options to remain slim.

Exercise more with a similar diet or exercise less and improve your diet. Not rocket science. Simple cause and effect with no excuses!

You're not everyone. Personally I was obese at age 5 and acquired a lifetime struggle.

[mommysboy]

I read today that whilst true muscle requires much more energy to maintain than fat, overweight people do actually require much more food intake to remain satiated simply because of their size. if true it does highlight why overweight people have such a devil of a job on their hands. i am coming round to thinking that this is not just a matter of self control and will power.

It does remain true though that the only way to lose weight is to stop eating so much. In theory at least as the weight comes down so should the need for so much food. I don't know why some are able to accept the challenge while others can't.

I recently decided to slim down from a healthy 74.5 kilos to an even healthier 71 kilos. Not a lot I know but I'm thin anyway. It was rather too easy and I was bit alarmed how I lost appetite. But I did noticed I was more irritable and anxious. I think this puts a lot of people off the challenge.

[mommysboy]

As we get older we put on weight as we probably eat the same or more than we did before and generally exercise less.

So we are left with two options to remain slim.

Exercise more with a similar diet or exercise less and improve your diet. Not rocket science. Simple cause and effect with no excuses!

Yes, yes, yes, yesss.........No !

There are excuses. Clearly so many have problems.

[Jingthing]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[roo860]

What a load of rubbish.

If you see a heavy person on the street, you know NOTHING about their personal struggle.

Bottom line, yes I know there are lots of heartless mean spirited bullies out there and for the most part they don't have the slightest interest in "helping" overweight people. They clearly do enjoy feeling SMUG and SUPERIOR that they don't have the same problem. It happens to be a socially sanctioned kind of bullying and discrimination and it shouldn't be.

But for the small minority of fat shamers who actually do care about the health of overweight people and are bullying to be "helpful", there is no evidence that bullying helps them and lots of evidence that it hurts them and contributes to social isolation and even more weight gain. So don't do it. EVER.

I see this robblok character openly ADMITS he DOES shame overweight people who are above the limits that HE sets up in his own mind. Like he's a God of acceptable heaviness limits or something. WOW. That deserves to be condemned in the strongest terms possible.

I am not surprised, but that attitude has no place on a health forum intended to be supportive to people dealing with HEALTH problems.

Leave the cream cakes alone!!!!

[Jingthing]

Leave the cream cakes alone!!!!

Please in future do not alter the emphasis in any of my posts, especially in an obvious attempt at generic fat shaming of all the people in the world with a weight problem. This is a HEALTH FORUM. It is supposed to be supportive, not mocking and ABUSIVE.

Goodbye.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

"A special chocolate dessert would be some kind of fusion of cake, crunchy candy, pastry, and cream.

I've had Italian desserts like that".

[Tolley]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

There has been an explosion in obesity over the last twenty or thirty years in many western countries.

It sort of coincides with people eating a lot more meals outside of home. People doing less exercise and the degradation of the food chain.

There were no Maccas or KFC or the like when I was a kid. Most people ate nearly every meal at home. There werent any computers so there werent as many sedentary jobs.

There werent the options there is today in the supermarket shelves and people didn't have the money for extra spending on discreationary items.

There were still obese people of course but nowhere near the numbers today.

Yes there are other factors emotional, stress, biological, hormonal etc but the biggest factor is the change in the way we live.

[roo860]

Leave the cream cakes alone!!!!

Please in future do not alter the emphasis in any of my posts, especially in an obvious attempt at generic fat shaming of all the people in the world with a weight problem. This is a HEALTH FORUM. It is supposed to be supportive, not mocking and ABUSIVE.

Goodbye.

Not abusive, more advisory.

[mommysboy]

If it was that easy to lose weight permanently then how come most diets fail?

The theory is easy for sure, eat less. But the practice is just like JT says. There seems to a host of factors that prevent lifestyle adjustment. As Tolley points out the damn stuff is everywhere, I doubt many people would be able to quit alcohol if they worked in a pub. Temptation everywhere.

At a basic level without looking at the individual psyche we can say people feel happy when full and somewhat less so when not. Already a powerful emotion in play.

According to a program I listened to on BBC radio, a great many of the obese people being treated also suffer from depression or anxiety. And a staggering 25% had been abused as children.

Without basic self confidence it's difficult to do much of anything. Criticising will just lead to more problems. Moralising is a very tricky area.

[mommysboy]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

There has been an explosion in obesity over the last twenty or thirty years in many western countries.

It sort of coincides with people eating a lot more meals outside of home. People doing less exercise and the degradation of the food chain.

There were no Maccas or KFC or the like when I was a kid. Most people ate nearly every meal at home. There werent any computers so there werent as many sedentary jobs.

There werent the options there is today in the supermarket shelves and people didn't have the money for extra spending on discreationary items.

There were still obese people of course but nowhere near the numbers today.

Yes there are other factors emotional, stress, biological, hormonal etc but the biggest factor is the change in the way we live.

"Yes there are other factors emotional, stress, biological, hormonal etc but the biggest factor is the change in the way we live."

Good posting Tolley but changing the way we live is dependent on all those factors you mention. It is the process we fear perhaps because it can be associated with the negative emotions we all hate. Even change itself can provoke painful disruptions in the psyche.

It can't be solved like a maths equation, however good the logic.

[kingalfred]

Eat too much Indisciplined or/mental issues

[mommysboy]

Eat too much Indisciplined or/mental issues

Suggest check copy. Your posting only came out as an opening phrase of a first sentence. I'm sure you meant to write much more!