National Park Experience

[BusyB]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

Yeah, and I don't see anything odd or conspiratorial about writing the Thai prices in Thai either. It would be as stupid to put the Thai price list in English as it would be to put the farang list in Thai. Even if the prices were the same they'd write the lists in Thai and English. The rates just happen to be different that's all.

[abhaya]

I don't mind paying extra on entrance fees but it is the exorbitant quadrupling of the prices which to me just indicates the real mindset of how Thais view foreigners, I find disturbing and downright rude.

[Jacks77]

You should go on tripadvisor and leave your review there. Many tourists use that site. I will not go to any parks in thailand because of this.

[FolkGuitar]

The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do?

Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees.

Ahh that old canard... "Farangs dont pay tax'..

Your aware I assume that fully 50% of the thai tax revenue is based on consumption taxes ?? That Thailands income taxation is notoriously weak for the powerful and even slightly wealthy.

So as taxation comes in consumption and import taxes.. Anyone who spends multiple of What Thais spend monthly, actually pays more 'tax' than Thais do.. How much of that BMW price was tax ?? Or your last bottle of wine ?? Or your last craft beer ??

The myth that westerners here dont contribute to the taxation system is precisely that faulty logic and a myth.

I'm sure you won't mind posting citations for your comments. While I don't doubt that the higher income brackets pay less percentage wise, I DO doubt the rest of your comments.

Citations please, or just admit that you made up the figures.

[callaway]

They have no respect for the environment at the beach so I imagine it would be similar in the parks.

Your presumption is true.

The reason I don't visit Thai national parks anymore is not the entrance fee but my bleeding heart seeing how unawarely and disrespectfully most Thais use to treat their national heritages.

Rather like the American father who, while on vacation with his kids in Yellowstone National Park, carved his name into the wooden railing over one of the scenic vistas... Maybe the Austrian climbers who left their trash on a ledge while climbing in the Tyrol. Or the Chinese family who used a marking pen to write their names on a famous Shrine in Japan. Perhaps it's closer to the UK girls who entered the Chiang Mai temple wearing bikinis. Or maybe it was the French couple vacationing in the Maldives, and threw their empty plastic water bottles into the sea next to their bungalow. Could it be the German guy who decided that the ancient stone shrine he passed while trekking was really an outhouse? Or maybe it was .....

Fill in which ever nationality you'd like, then go and blame Thais for doing the same thing. Everybody is perfect except the Thais. Certainly YOUR countrymen would never behave like that...

I really wonder why some of you live here.You seem to dislike just about everything about Thailand and its people.

Well said. In you your last sentence I could not agree more. There is some really bitter miserable people living here. Wished the would go to the utopia they want to find. Mind you I think if they won lottery they would complain about the denomination of currency they were paid out in. Never ever happy. What a way to live life. See why the administration is try to be rid of us. They are fantastic ambassadors for foreigners (not).

[kaorop]

Yes, I had a similar problem in Kanchanaburi two weeks ago.

I showed my driving licence, but they said I had to pay.

It's embarrassing.

It's not so much the price. It's the fact that with a car full of Thais, I'm singled out to be 'mugged' by these people.

exactly same for me

my car, my petrol, me driving

a thai friend, her mother and her 2 kids, who would not be able to go there without me.

one time i'm going to do the old drive in theater trick

folkguitar need to stop strumming something, not paying taxes? guess he doesnt understand consumption taxes.

anyway i'd say these apologists never go to the places, so of course they dont mind.

[FolkGuitar]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

Yeah, and I don't see anything odd or conspiratorial about writing the Thai prices in Thai either. It would be as stupid to put the Thai price list in English as it would be to put the farang list in Thai. Even if the prices were the same they'd write the lists in Thai and English. The rates just happen to be different that's all.

Some people find conspiracies and racist plots in how Santa Claus chooses to deliver his toys...

[yardrunner]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

And if you just live here on a retirement extension you also contribute to the local economy by paying VAT on purchases and paying local people for services

[kaorop]

They have no respect for the environment at the beach so I imagine it would be similar in the parks.

Your presumption is true.

The reason I don't visit Thai national parks anymore is not the entrance fee but my bleeding heart seeing how unawarely and disrespectfully most Thais use to treat their national heritages.

Fill in which ever nationality you'd like, then go and blame Thais for doing the same thing. Everybody is perfect except the Thais. Certainly YOUR countrymen would never behave like that...

I really wonder why some of you live here.You seem to dislike just about everything about Thailand and its people.

Well said. In you your last sentence I could not agree more. There is some really bitter miserable people living here. Wished the would go to the utopia they want to find. Mind you I think if they won lottery they would complain about the denomination of currency they were paid out in. Never ever happy. What a way to live life. See why the administration is try to be rid of us. They are fantastic ambassadors for foreigners (not).

lol you people project way to much, its really quite embarrassing for you to say things which are traits that are thine own.

[LivinLOS]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

Yeah, and I don't see anything odd or conspiratorial about writing the Thai prices in Thai either. It would be as stupid to put the Thai price list in English as it would be to put the farang list in Thai. Even if the prices were the same they'd write the lists in Thai and English. The rates just happen to be different that's all.

Where else do you still see Thai numerals in daily life ??

[hugh2121]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

It is done to the tourists in Hawaii as well.

Interesting, as Hawaii is US territory, Not right so.

Hawaii is a state (#50) not a territory and I mention their double pricing as an example which refutes the notion we don’t do it in the West. National Parks in the US also have discounts for people who live in the area and based on age. Not everyone pays the same.

There are several national parks near me. I get no discount because I live in the area nor for my age.

I have refused to visit them for a long time due to their RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.

[steven23]

Please stop Thai bushing and check your privilege, instead of talking about real discrimination you are concentration on something irelevant!!! and something that exist all around World, from India, Europe, and even USA ( Aspen and Hawaii )

[TheKnave]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

Yeah, and I don't see anything odd or conspiratorial about writing the Thai prices in Thai either. It would be as stupid to put the Thai price list in English as it would be to put the farang list in Thai. Even if the prices were the same they'd write the lists in Thai and English. The rates just happen to be different that's all.

Usually, prices are written in Arabic numerals, i.e., 1,2,3...

Have a look around next time you're in Thailand. In this case, the use of Thai numerals is suspect.

Also, to those who use local attraction pricing in the US, for instance, Disneyland discounts for locals, as a defense for Thais overcharging foreign visitors, bear in mind that there is a difference between marketing and discrimination. Disneyland gives discounts (to certain local postal codes) to attract people who are not necessarily on vacation, and who live close enough not to be particularly excited about the place. Paying 10-20% of the farang price is not much of an incentive for a Thai to visit a park.

They just laugh at (and are amazed by) people who have so much money to throw around. And they use the same justification to overcharge for just about everything else.

The fact that the Government has institutionalized it speaks volumes.

That said, it is absolutely embarassing to see some dope 'making a stand' by arguing with some poor park attendant. Better stay home.

[sfokevin]

We went th Doi Inthanon this last weekend and was met with this sign at the gate...

No matter how many years you live here you are still a "Foreigner"...

Edited October 28, 2015 by sfokevin

[LivinLOS]

The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do?

Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees.

Ahh that old canard... "Farangs dont pay tax'..

Your aware I assume that fully 50% of the thai tax revenue is based on consumption taxes ?? That Thailands income taxation is notoriously weak for the powerful and even slightly wealthy.

So as taxation comes in consumption and import taxes.. Anyone who spends multiple of What Thais spend monthly, actually pays more 'tax' than Thais do.. How much of that BMW price was tax ?? Or your last bottle of wine ?? Or your last craft beer ??

The myth that westerners here dont contribute to the taxation system is precisely that faulty logic and a myth.

I'm sure you won't mind posting citations for your comments. While I don't doubt that the higher income brackets pay less percentage wise, I DO doubt the rest of your comments.

Citations please, or just admit that you made up the figures.

Which facts are in doubt..

For fiscal 2014 ended last Sept 30, VAT accounted for 41% of tax collected. .I am not supposed to link the source of that quote.. its easy to google.

Thats just VAT.. Import taxes (and we surely spend more in those pro rata than an average Thai) add to that.. As do special taxes in wines, european import vehicles, imported beers, fuel, etc.. Consumption taxes are about 50% of the entire revenue budget and westerners on average both consume much more (who lives in 'average Thai' wages) and also consume more imported goods in proportion.

Add in that coporation taxes account for 20 - 30% of revenue.. And westerners spend in Thai corporations (at a higher level per month) just the same..

So the normal westerner with thier 100 or 120k spending pattern, is at a bare minimum spending 14k in VAT from that.. Plus all kinds of other import and car tax duties. If your living a wines and cheeses (and craft beers) lifestyle, its easy to assume your paying as much as 30 % in taxation of your budget. Thats more in taxation alone than most average Thais earn in total.

I am unsure what your disputing.. But the logic of what I am explaining is clear. Thailand is a country which heaily biases its tax base, on consumption taxes. So the fact we on average spend more, means we pay more consumption taxes than they do. Very often this far outweighs the relatively small income tax contributions some of them make.

[Nowisee]

Most of the Nat Parks and temples are not worth visiting regardless of cost.

[hugh2121]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

It is done to the tourists in Hawaii as well.

Ohh!! Shock horror!

If America practices this racial discrimination it must be OK then?????

Tell that to the EU where it is ILLEGAL!!!

[FolkGuitar]

The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do?

Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees.

Ahh that old canard... "Farangs dont pay tax'..

Your aware I assume that fully 50% of the thai tax revenue is based on consumption taxes ?? That Thailands income taxation is notoriously weak for the powerful and even slightly wealthy.

So as taxation comes in consumption and import taxes.. Anyone who spends multiple of What Thais spend monthly, actually pays more 'tax' than Thais do.. How much of that BMW price was tax ?? Or your last bottle of wine ?? Or your last craft beer ??

The myth that westerners here dont contribute to the taxation system is precisely that faulty logic and a myth.

I'm sure you won't mind posting citations for your comments. While I don't doubt that the higher income brackets pay less percentage wise, I DO doubt the rest of your comments.

Citations please, or just admit that you made up the figures.

Which facts are in doubt..

For fiscal 2014 ended last Sept 30, VAT accounted for 41% of tax collected. .I am not supposed to link the source of that quote.. its easy to google.

I didn't ask for a newspaper quote. I asked for a citation. There really IS a difference, you know...

[FolkGuitar]

One last note....

Please permit me to say 'Thank you' to all of you who refuse to visit the national parks. It really makes it just so much nicer for those of us who enjoy them.

Be it a racist plot, a nationalistic purge, or just a way to make extra money for the Thais, frankly, I DON'T CARE.

The extra few hundred baht is no skin off my nose compared with the enjoyment I get when visiting the various parks and attraction around the Kingdom. The fact that I've been living here for 15 years and paying a few bits extra for my pleasure is simply not a hardship to me. I'm sorry if it is to you. There are far more important things in life to pay attention to than looking for ways to be unhappy.

The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude ABOUT the problem.

[losername]

Just a couple of simple points. Firstly I resent the suggestion that retired persons here pay no tax. I pay 15% on the interest on my bank deposits, part of which I am required to keep for immigration purposes.

Secondly. Just as a matter of window dressing, the Thai attitude would be easier to accept if it was presented as giving discounts. Hence local residents, monks, students, the elderly etc could be given favourable rates rather than simply stinging foreigners or persons with the wrong coloured skin.

[Fairynuff]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

It happens in Thailand, therefore it's a Thai problem.

[kinmaew]

Its just a product of a much bigger problem in that country and the root cause (not easy) needs to be fixed/removed.

[hml367]

One last note....

Please permit me to say 'Thank you' to all of you who refuse to visit the national parks. It really makes it just so much nicer for those of us who enjoy them.

Be it a racist plot, a nationalistic purge, or just a way to make extra money for the Thais, frankly, I DON'T CARE.

The extra few hundred baht is no skin off my nose compared with the enjoyment I get when visiting the various parks and attraction around the Kingdom. The fact that I've been living here for 15 years and paying a few bits extra for my pleasure is simply not a hardship to me. I'm sorry if it is to you. There are far more important things in life to pay attention to than looking for ways to be unhappy.

The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude ABOUT the problem.

What an arrogant post.

[Benmart]

As with most things. If I don't feel that I am getting fair value for my money, I move on. Last week I visited the Phimai Historical Park. Thais paid 20 Baht and my friends and I, paid 100. I considered it fair value in this instance.

When I lived in Las Vegas, Nevada, my drivers license got me reduced admission to many venues. Here in Pattaya, there is one movie theater that gives senior discounts, regardless of nationality.

Myanmar removed the dual pricing on its national train service. Whatever Thailand does is up to them. Choice for me is a wonderful thing.

[Fairynuff]

The Thai dual pricing policy is still a HECK of a lot cheaper than you would pay in many other countries that also have dual pricing policies. Yet Farangs still complain. **sigh**

Totally irrelevant

[anon444]

Visit Phowiang Dinosaur Museum on Sunday. Foreign 60 baht, thai 20 baht. I showed my tax-payer card and asked how much tax they payed, just to show my anger. Result: I did not enter the museum. I will never enter any sights that charge double and triple price for foreigners. It is not at all about the money, it is all about the racism behind the scheme.

[cnx355]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

Yes but other countries use ID car and not race to charge the dual price.

Any Asian-Canadian or Asian-American that go in with a group of Thai will be charged the Thai price. !

Any Chinese inside a group of Thai in a car ....Thai price.

They just look in the car and see Asian face and that the only proof of Thai citizenship they need at the Park entrance.

As long as they use race to implement the dual pricing ...Visitor should keep complaining about it !

[ilostmypassword]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

It is done to the tourists in Hawaii as well.

Ohh!! Shock horror!

If America practices this racial discrimination it must be OK then?????

Tell that to the EU where it is ILLEGAL!!!

How exactly does charging foreigner more than locals count as Racial Discrimination? It may be discrimination, but's it's not racial. Unless, of course, you believe that there is a race called "non-Thai".

[cooper2111]

One last note....

Please permit me to say 'Thank you' to all of you who refuse to visit the national parks. It really makes it just so much nicer for those of us who enjoy them.

Be it a racist plot, a nationalistic purge, or just a way to make extra money for the Thais, frankly, I DON'T CARE.

The extra few hundred baht is no skin off my nose compared with the enjoyment I get when visiting the various parks and attraction around the Kingdom. The fact that I've been living here for 15 years and paying a few bits extra for my pleasure is simply not a hardship to me. I'm sorry if it is to you. There are far more important things in life to pay attention to than looking for ways to be unhappy.

The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude ABOUT the problem.

What an arrogant post.

Agreed! Arrogant and pompous! right what they say about empty vessels -- just gotta chip in with his sanctimonious bs

[NoshowJones]

If I really want to go somewhere, I don't mind if it costs me 100 baht. I have been to parks where they didn't charge extra but I don't expect that to happen every time. If you don't want to pay, simply don't go to National Parks. One less tourist is no big deal as the parks are overcrowded during the holidays anyway.