ATM fees rise again

[Pib]

I think its crazy the fees went from 150 to 180 to 200 in 18 months! Thats a 33% rise in 1.5 years, and we just came out of a deflationary period here. If anything, fees should have went down.

.

Also, how is it that ALL banks maintain the same fee, and rise in tandem?? Isn't there a price fixing law here?

Now that the Thai banksters have the foreign card ATM withdrawal fee at Bt200 which is 10 times higher than what would be charged for a Thai bank debit card doing an out-of-province withdrawal (generally Bt20) they won't raise it again for a few years. All depends on how fee-evil they feel at future Thai Bankers Association meetings not that they officially discuss such things on the official meeting agenda...probably done quietly during the backroom or bar meetings.

[tropo]

I think its crazy the fees went from 150 to 180 to 200 in 18 months! Thats a 33% rise in 1.5 years, and we just came out of a deflationary period here. If anything, fees should have went down.

.

Also, how is it that ALL banks maintain the same fee, and rise in tandem?? Isn't there a price fixing law here?

Your timeline is wrong:

The 150 fee was introduced in April 2009. It went up to 180 at most banks in May 2013, 2.5 years ago.

The total inflation rate from 2009 to present is about 14%... so in real terms, the fee has increased from 171 baht (2009 fee adjusted for inflation) to 200 baht in 6.5 years. It's just a bit higher than the price increase for milk over the same time period (71 baht to 91.75).

[Naam]

i have not paid any atm fees for years at any bank i choose and its a completely free account with debit card and no minimums.

you could open such an account online in the time it takes to read this thread.

why dont you do that instead of complaining? good question.

why do you think that you are the sharpest tool in the shed?

[55Jay]

i have not paid any atm fees for years at any bank i choose and its a completely free account with debit card and no minimums.

you could open such an account online in the time it takes to read this thread.

why dont you do that instead of complaining? good question.

why do you think that you are the sharpest tool in the shed?

Tool?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, the latest foreign card ATM withdrawal fee increase by many/most of the Thai banks has spurred me to reconsider how I access my home country funds -- even though my home country bank accounts will/would reimburse the old 180 / new 200 baht Thai bank ATM fees. But I already view the Thai ATM fee as extortionate, I won't pay it if I have any reasonable alternative, and I'm not excited about having my home country banks pay it either.

So the time came to look for a new approach. For the time being, I've decided to go with what I'd call a blended approach.

1. BACK TO AEON ATMs

Part 1 involves making a return to AEON's ATMs after a long absence where, at least for now, you can still withdraw up to 20,000 baht per pull for just a 150 baht fee, which my home country banks will still reimburse, meaning it's free to me. One of those fees per month, at 150 baht, I can live with as the price of doing business, and the 150 baht fee amount reimbursement won't raise any eyebrows at my home country banks.

2. NO FEE CREDIT CARD COUNTER WITHDRAWAL / CASH ADVANCE

But, 20K in cash isn't enough to cover my needs for a month, so then comes part 2, which is finally getting dragged into undertaking a monthly Thai bank counter withdrawal using a no foreign currency fee, no cash advance fee credit card from my home country (better known around these parts as making a PIB withdrawal). The advantage of such a counter withdrawal is it has no ATM fee, and, if the home country credit card you're using has no foreign currency or cash advance fees, then not any other fees either. So in effect, it's an absolutely fee free foreign card withdrawal.

I've long resisted going down that road for a couple reasons including:

1) it requires at most banks carrying around and presenting your original passport, which I prefer to keep safely tucked away at home,

2) it requires dealing with unknowable and unpredictable Thai bank tellers who often speak little to no English, and

3) some Thai banks have reportedly turned away counter withdrawal requests, telling customers to use their ATMs (and thus get charged the ATM fee) instead. And, when I want to withdraw funds, I don't want to end up wandering around from branch to branch looking.

But times and circumstances change, so I finally found myself going down the counter withdrawal road today for the first time. And I'm pleased to report, it went smoothly and successfully at the very first branch I tried, which was the Bangkok Bank branch in the basement of Siam Paragon. Even though I got a teller who basically spoke no English, apparently it turns out that the Thai language bankers term for "cash advance" is... wait for it... "cash advance." At least, that's what the teller indicated when my wife asked her in Thai about the term to use in Thai language.

So, handed over my home country no fee VISA credit card and my passport, and the teller went off to make photocopies and fill out the necessary paperwork to return for me to sign. All in all, I'd say it took about 5 minutes. And, nowhere along the way did the teller or anyone else try to steer me into using their 200 baht ATMs, which I appreciated. And thus I walked out with my Thai baht pulled from my home country account, and didn't pay a single baht in fees.

Now, a couple of detail things to note:

1. Re one poster's comment earlier in this thread, I asked the BKK Bank teller whether it mattered or not that I was using a chipped credit card, and would they still accept a non-chipped credit card, and she said either one was fine. They didn't care, at least, not at BKK Bank Siam Paragon.

2. Once my credit card transaction was done, I then showed and asked the teller if I could do the same kind of cash advance/counter withdrawal using my home country VISA DEBIT card (as opposed to credit card). And immediately the answer came back, NO, at least the BKK Bank branch at Siam Paragon apparently won't do counter withdrawals with debit cards (though some other bank branches elsewhere supposedly will accept debit cards, based on past member posts here).

3. There has also been some discussion here in past posts about some banks only wanting to do counter withdrawals for larger amounts -- such as amounts exceeding their daily ATM withdrawal limits. Well, in my case today as just a test run, I chose a relatively small amount that was well under Bangkok Bank's 25K per ATM withdrawal limit. And that didn't create any issues, at least at the Siam Paragon branch. So that was good to see also.

4. Lastly, when I got home a few hours later, I checked the charge amount to my credit card account, which was already showing as a pending transaction at that point. And found that the exchange rate I got for my cash advance exactly matched the VISA network rate for today of 35.603 baht per U.S. $. So there were no sneaky behind the scenes fees or reduced exchange rates that BKK Bank was trying to perpetrate anywhere in the process. (Now as soon as the credit card transaction posts, I already have funds in a linked savings account waiting to cover it).

All in all, the counter withdrawal (my first) went smoother than I had expected/feared. Obviously, I could just dispense with using the Thai ATMs altogether and do just one large (or even two lesser) counter withdrawal every month to cover my needs. But I have personal and practical reasons for liking / wanting to keep some balance between the ATM withdrawal and cash advance -- at least under the current circumstances, and since my ATM fees are reimbursed. So we'll see how that goes.

Then as a PS, I guess I should add: There are some of us here who are fortunate to have no cash advance fee / no foreign currency fee credit cards, which make the no fee counter withdrawals possible. But, on the flip side, I'd also say the vast majority of folks reading here probably do NOT have those kinds of home country credit cards, and instead have ones that charge either flat and flat fee+interest charges on all cash advances, sometimes at very high rates. So, if you're holding one of those kinds of card, just a caution, the economics/advantage compared to a 200 baht ATM withdrawal fee may be very different.

Edited November 21, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[tropo]

1. BACK TO AEON ATMs

Part 1 involves making a return to AEON's ATMs after a long absence where, at least for now, you can still withdraw up to 20,000 baht per pull for just a 150 baht fee, which my home country banks will still reimburse, meaning it's free to me. One of those fees per month, at 150 baht, I can live with as the price of doing business, and the 150 baht fee amount reimbursement won't raise any eyebrows at my home country banks.

I don't get it. You're complaining about paying a 150 baht fee which your home back reimburses? Why is that?

Do you realise that:

1. 150/20,000 = 0.75% (AEON ATM)

2. 180/30,000 = 0.60% (TMB ATM)

3. 200/30,000 = 0.67% (Krungsri)

Considering the lengths you go to to not pay an ATM fee which your bank reimburses anyway (????), why not use 2 or 3, which result in a lower fee. Does your home bank not allow 30K per day at an ATM?

[Pib]

TallGuy,

Glad the counter withdrawal cash advance using your no foreign transaction fee, no cash advance fee credit card went well....mine always have so far..been doing it for well over a year now...maybe closer to 18 months. And where your Bangkok Bank branch told you "No Way, Jose" regarding a counter withdrawal with a debit card (but no problem for a credit card) that is what the Bangkok Bank branch I use says also. However, for the last six months or so I've been using a new Krungsri Bank branch in a mall that's a little closer to me than the other mall the Bangkok Bank branch is in. The Krungsri Branch is very weak on English but the reps are prettier than the Bangkok Bank reps. My queue from walking into the branch to setting down with a rep to do the cash advance is usually zero to less than 5 minutes...usually zero minutes. When I walk into the branch they already know what I want to do...do the cash advance and just have the entire amounted deposited into my Krungsri Mee Tae Dai account...at the Bangkok Bank branch I would also have the cash deposited into one of my Bangkok Bank accounts. If using my foreign debit card in an ATM I first need to do the withdrawal, then go to a Cash Deposit Machine or go into the bank to deposit the money. Plus with the credit card I can get $2,000 per withdrawal per day vs only $1,000 per day using my debit card.

Yeap, you get the card network exchange rate, but you won't know the final rate until the credit card transaction posts to your account which has usually been one business day after the actual withdrawal. Sometimes its higher, sometimes it lower on the posting date compared to the actual transaction date. The rate seen on the Pending Transaction is just today's rate. But when it posts it will show a posting date of the actual date of the withdrawal instead of a day or two after the actual transaction. Interest charges starts from the date of actual transaction. For me I always prepay the advance so when the transaction occurs its already paid off. When the dust settles no fees or interest of any kind.

And like you, not having the high ATM fee go into the Thai bank's pocket whether my U.S. debit cards reimburse the fees or not (the two I use do) somehow makes me feel a little better that I didn't enrich (nor my home country bank) the Thai bankster more than fair. Even with a credit or debit withdrawal the Thai bank is earning an interchange fee but with an ATM withdrawal they are also drawing an extra Bt200 on top of an interchange fee. Just my part in not abusing the ATM Fee Reimbursement Golden Goose provided by my home country bank. I still use my fee reimbursing debit cards but much less since also using the credit card cash advance approach.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Pib

[tropo]

And like you, not having the high ATM fee go into the Thai bank's pocket whether my U.S. debit cards reimburse the fees or not (the two I use do) somehow makes me feel a little better that I didn't enrich (nor my home country bank) the Thai bankster more than fair. Even with a credit or debit withdrawal the Thai bank is earning an interchange fee but with an ATM withdrawal they are also drawing an extra Bt200 on top of an interchange fee. Just my part in not abusing the ATM Fee Reimbursement Golden Goose provided by my home country bank. I still use my fee reimbursing debit cards but much less since also using the credit card cash advance approach.

You guys are so nice - ensuring that your banks maximize profits by not wasting money on ATM fee reimbursement.

I have absolutely no such feelings toward my Australian banks, unfortunately they don't have any such "Golden Goose" offers. If they did I'd use the ATM as frequently as possible.

Edited November 21, 2015 by tropo

[Pib]

And like you, not having the high ATM fee go into the Thai bank's pocket whether my U.S. debit cards reimburse the fees or not (the two I use do) somehow makes me feel a little better that I didn't enrich (nor my home country bank) the Thai bankster more than fair. Even with a credit or debit withdrawal the Thai bank is earning an interchange fee but with an ATM withdrawal they are also drawing an extra Bt200 on top of an interchange fee. Just my part in not abusing the ATM Fee Reimbursement Golden Goose provided by my home country bank. I still use my fee reimbursing debit cards but much less since also using the credit card cash advance approach.

You guys are so nice - ensuring that your banks maximize profits by not wasting money on ATM fee reimbursement.

I have absolutely no such feelings toward my Australian banks, unfortunately they don't have any such "Golden Goose" offers. If they did I'd use the ATM as frequently as possible.

No, I bet even if you didn't care about your home country bank's profit or enriching Thai banks by paying their high ATM withdrawal fee, if your home country bank did reimburse your ATM fees but you lived in Thailand you might think that you didn't want to do anything that might draw too much attention from your home country bank regarding them spending a ton of ATM reimbursement fees on you each month. You can find posts from expats who are totally convinced that's why their home country bank dumped them due to residence requirements....and they may just be right in some cases. That is, he's suppose to be living in his home country...sure, it's OK to travel but he's living full time or most of the time in a foreign country...he a durn expat now...no longer has a residence in his home country. Let's find a way to off-load this customer that sucking us dry on ATM reimbursement fees. For me, that consideration is also a factor plus the principal of the thing in enriching Thai banksters with their high Bt200 ATM fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1. BACK TO AEON ATMs

Part 1 involves making a return to AEON's ATMs after a long absence where, at least for now, you can still withdraw up to 20,000 baht per pull for just a 150 baht fee, which my home country banks will still reimburse, meaning it's free to me. One of those fees per month, at 150 baht, I can live with as the price of doing business, and the 150 baht fee amount reimbursement won't raise any eyebrows at my home country banks.

I don't get it. You're complaining about paying a 150 baht fee which your home back reimburses? Why is that?

Do you realise that:

1. 150/20,000 = 0.75% (AEON ATM)

2. 180/30,000 = 0.60% (TMB ATM)

3. 200/30,000 = 0.67% (Krungsri)

Considering the lengths you go to to not pay an ATM fee which your bank reimburses anyway (????), why not use 2 or 3, which result in a lower fee. Does your home bank not allow 30K per day at an ATM?

No, I'm not complaining about PAYING an extortionate ATM fee. I'm complaining about the Thai banks charging, and trying to charge, an extortionate ATM fee.

As I noted in my post above, I'm not paying the fee either way, at 150, 180 or 200 baht. But I am objecting to the Thai banks trying to charge me and everyone else using foreign cards those higher amounts, and I'm objecting to an anti-competitive, monopolistic banking sector where ATM fees and many other fees are all decided in lockstep.

Thus, it doesn't only matter to me whether the fee is coming out of my pocket or coming out of my home country bank's pocket on my behalf. I still consider the 200 baht amount to be offensive, and I don't want my banking activities to have any part of it, as long as I can possible avoid it.

It's partly the simple principle of not wanting to be taken advantage of, as well as, as Pib explained above, not wanting to excessively use the fee reimbursements feature of our home country bank accounts to the extent that those benefits might be curtailed or discontinued.

150 baht is at least somewhat in the ballpark of a reasonable foreign (out of network) ATM fee, although it's double the average out of network ATM fee charged in the U.S. But at 200 baht, the new fee is WAY out of the reasonable ballpark.

[tropo]

1. BACK TO AEON ATMs

Part 1 involves making a return to AEON's ATMs after a long absence where, at least for now, you can still withdraw up to 20,000 baht per pull for just a 150 baht fee, which my home country banks will still reimburse, meaning it's free to me. One of those fees per month, at 150 baht, I can live with as the price of doing business, and the 150 baht fee amount reimbursement won't raise any eyebrows at my home country banks.

I don't get it. You're complaining about paying a 150 baht fee which your home back reimburses? Why is that?

Do you realise that:

1. 150/20,000 = 0.75% (AEON ATM)

2. 180/30,000 = 0.60% (TMB ATM)

3. 200/30,000 = 0.67% (Krungsri)

Considering the lengths you go to to not pay an ATM fee which your bank reimburses anyway (????), why not use 2 or 3, which result in a lower fee. Does your home bank not allow 30K per day at an ATM?

No, I'm not complaining about PAYING an extortionate ATM fee. I'm complaining about the Thai banks charging, and trying to charge, an extortionate ATM fee.

As I noted in my post above, I'm not paying the fee either way, at 150, 180 or 200 baht. But I am objecting to the Thai banks trying to charge me and everyone else using foreign cards those higher amounts, and I'm objecting to an anti-competitive, monopolistic banking sector where ATM fees and many other fees are all decided in lockstep.

Thus, it doesn't only matter to me whether the fee is coming out of my pocket or coming out of my home country bank's pocket on my behalf. I still consider the 200 baht amount to be offensive, and I don't want my banking activities to have any part of it, as long as I can possible avoid it.

It's partly the simple principle of not wanting to be taken advantage of, as well as, as Pib explained above, not wanting to excessively use the fee reimbursements feature of our home country bank accounts to the extent that those benefits might be curtailed or discontinued.

150 baht is at least somewhat in the ballpark of a reasonable foreign (out of network) ATM fee, although it's double the average out of network ATM fee charged in the U.S. But at 200 baht, the new fee is WAY out of the reasonable ballpark.

Did you miss the part where you're paying a higher percentage at 150 for 20,000 than 180/200 for 30,000?

Personally I would prefer to give the money to the Thai banks than my home country banks, not that I have a choice. Thai banks offer me many times the convenience of my home banks. ATM's are on every street corner in Pattaya and there are many branches open until 8pm, 7 days a week. You can't beat the service - they deserve praise instead of condemnation.

[thailanddogerator]

Thank you for recap.

So if I want to withdraw 30000, TMB is now the best choice with 180 fee ?

So, the recap of things re foreign ATM card withdrawals, based on the various posts here, appears to be as follows:

200 baht ATM fee chargers:

Bangkok Bank

Govt Savings Bank

Kasikorn

Krungsri-Ayudhya (larger max withdrawal 30K)

KrungThai

180 baht fee charger:

Thai Military Bank (TMB), (larger max withdrawal 30K) though likely to go to 200b any time now

150 baht fee charger:

AEON (max withdrawal 20K)

There are a few other banks not mentioned here thus far, including CIMB, which also has the larger max 30K withdrawal. But I suspect they're all going to end up at 200 baht per withdrawal fairly soon -- with the possible exception of AEON, which isn't directly a part of the Thai banks cabal.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thank you for recap.

So if I want to withdraw 30000, TMB is now the best choice with 180 fee ?

For doing ATM withdrawals, probably so. Thought I don't expect TMB to remain at the 180 baht rate for very long, and expect sooner or later (probably sooner) that they'll join most of the other banks at the 200 baht fee.

Among the Thai banks, the only ones I know that currently allow the full 30K withdrawal are TMB, Ayudhya/Krungsri and CIMB. Ayudhya is already at 200 baht, and I don't believe we've see any report here lately of anyone using a CIMB ATM and reporting on their fee since the new higher fee was rolled out.

Another bank that needs checking on is Citibank Thailand, although they only have a few branches/ATMs in Bangkok (Asoke, CentralWorld, etc.). Someone else posted here that Citi has a high/higher per withdrawal limit. But, I don't remember ever observing that in my past dealings with Citi. And when I have used Citi ATMs in the past, it seemed there were exchange rate issues. But no harm in checking.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Did you miss the part where you're paying a higher percentage at 150 for 20,000 than 180/200 for 30,000?

You're missing the counter withdrawal component. Overall, by using the combination of the AEON ATM withdrawal and a fee free counter withdrawal, I can withdraw up about 90,000 baht if I wanted to, not pay any fee myself, and my home country bank pay/reimburse only the single 150 baht AEON ATM fee. That's a considerably lower percentage fee for my overall transaction than your 200 baht/30K calculation.

That's because the AEON withdrawal gives me up to 20,000, and the fee free counter withdrawal could give me as much as 70,000 or so per withdrawal, if I wanted/needed that much.

But the other part you're missing is the American perspective on ATM fees and fee reimbursements. As I mentioned above, the U.S. bank average non-network ATM fee is about $2.77 or half the new Thai fee. But obviously, that's an average so some banks are below that, and others are higher.

But out of that, it so happens that a lot of U.S. banks that do reimbursements also have set a $5 fee amount as the maximum they'll reimburse without the customer providing the bank a copy of their actual ATM receipt. They will pay higher amounts, but only if you fax/email or otherwise present them with a copy of the ATM receipt, which expat customers probably really don't want to be doing. (The under $5 reimbursements are simply processed automatically without anything being required).

Now, in my case, my banks don't currently use/enforce that $5 limit on reimbursements without providing the bank a copy of the actual ATM receipt. But they could, and it also serves as a kind of sign that anything up to $5 is considered reasonable in the U.S. Bottom line: the 150 fee, at today's exchange rates, is under that threshold at $4.21, the 180 baht fee ($5.06) is just above it, and the 200 baht fee ($5.62) is well over it.

That's part of the reason I'm more comfortable dealing with the 150 baht ATM fee reimbursements, and probably so are the U.S. banks that do fee reimbursements. A lot of them wouldn't mind if a customer were to do two different $4.21 / 150 baht ATM fee reimbursements in a month, but they might well mind more if their customer popped up with a single $5.62 / 200 baht amount, or at least, it would begin to attract a lot more attention that expat customers don't want or need.

Edited November 21, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[tropo]

Thank you for recap.

So if I want to withdraw 30000, TMB is now the best choice with 180 fee ?

For doing ATM withdrawals, probably so. Thought I don't expect TMB to remain at the 180 baht rate for very long, and expect sooner or later (probably sooner) that they'll join most of the other banks at the 200 baht fee.

Among the Thai banks, the only ones I know that currently allow the full 30K withdrawal are TMB, Ayudhya/Krungsri and CIMB. Ayudhya is already at 200 baht, and I don't believe we've see any report here lately of anyone using a CIMB ATM and reporting on their fee since the new higher fee was rolled out.

Another bank that needs checking on is Citibank Thailand, although they only have a few branches/ATMs in Bangkok (Asoke, CentralWorld, etc.). Someone else posted here that Citi has a high/higher per withdrawal limit. But, I don't remember ever observing that in my past dealings with Citi. And when I have used Citi ATMs in the past, it seemed there were exchange rate issues. But no harm in checking.

You never know. The word gets out - they will get more customers using their ATM's - they may keep it at 180 baht for years to come. AEON kept their ATM's fee free for years after the 150 baht fee was first introduced, and they're still at 150 baht.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's possible. But, TMB is a Thai bank and part of the Thai Bankers Assn. that's typically the mover of these kinds of all-in ATM fee hikes. In the past, AFAIK, there have been no renegade/refusing banks in the TBA in relation to increasing ATM fees.

AEON, on the other hand, isn't a Thai bank and, AFAIK, isn't part of the Thai Bankers Association, despite the fact that they operate a network of ATMs.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't be betting on TMB to stay at 180 baht. In the past increase to 180 baht, there were some banks that lagged behind the others in timing implementation. But they (the TBA banks) all eventually ended up at the same fee. I would suspect, this latest increase will end up being exactly the same.

Edited November 21, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

That's possible. But, TMB is a Thai bank and part of the Thai Bankers Assn. that's typically the mover of these kinds of all-in ATM fee hikes. In the past, AFAIK, there have been no renegade/refusing banks in the TBA in relation to increasing ATM fees.

AEON, on the other hand, isn't a Thai bank and, AFAIK, isn't part of the Thai Bankers Association, despite the fact that they operate a network of ATMs.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't be betting on TMB to stay at 180 baht. In the past increase to 180 baht, there were some banks that lagged behind the others in timing implementation. But they (the TBA banks) all eventually ended up at the same fee. I would suspect, this latest increase will end up being exactly the same.

All part of the Thai Bankers Assn plan...have one of its members implement the rise after the rest of the banks that way if taken to court for collusion/anti-competition in banking fees they can show proof "all" did not increase to Bt200 at the same time. All part of their plan.

[gdhm]

A warning of possible issues with some (maybe many) Bangkok Bank ATMs ONLY SINCE the ATM transaction increased in Nov 2015 to ฿200.

I would be interested if other Foreign Card holders have experienced similar issues

A problem I have been having in Khon Kaen since Bangkok Bank increased its ATM fee to ฿200 is that one type of ATM BKB uses (slightly taller than the other) is that when you expect the "There will be a ฿200 transaction fee. Do you wish to proceed" (or word to that effect) message all you see get is a totally Black screen. If you wait a minute nothing happens. This has happened to me 3 times. The problem is unless you have the 2 types of ATM close to each other its very hard to know which is which (and at first I did not appreciate the type of ATM was the issue).

Luckily I found out first time that if you press cancel the display appears again but on an earlier screen. Naturally I decided to press cancel again and thankfully my card is returned with a message the transaction has been cancelled contact your card provider (yeah spot on message). I can confirm no debit was recorded to my Nationwide Building Society Current account.

I went to the BKB ATM next to it (slightly shorter) and it worked perfectly and exactly as normal (with increased fee of course) . I nearly always use ATMs outside an actual BKB Bank so I can go inside if there is an issue AND less likely to be tampered with).

On 2 occasions I have reported the issue at different locations in Khon Kaen (Fairy Plaza and Tesco Lotus)

Yesterday I was at Makro and decided to risk a BKB ATM (that was not outside a Bank but at least inside Makro). Unfortunately I was not sure if it was the taller or shorter type. Anyway I got a black screen when I expected the transaction fee screen (so obviously it was the taller faulty type). After leaving I went to Tesco Lotus where they have 2 ATM (one shorter one taller) Of course I use the shorter ATM and all went smoothly. 2 weeks back I used the taller one and got the black screen (AT that time I thought the faulty Fairy Plaza ATM had been a one off as it has worked for my card (with micro chip) for 2 years up until the increase to ฿200.

Response I got form the Fairy Plaza sub branch was . You are lucky the ATM retunred your card as other foreign cards have been retained I suggest you use the one immediately next to the Tesco Lotus it seems to work. When I looked at that one it TOO was like the slightly shorter one I had success with outside the actual bank. So it would seem 2 ATMs are OK, 1 no good. To be honest they did not seem bothered.

I think it is possible The ATM actually advances to the "There will be a ฿200 Transaction fee do you wish to proceed? but for some reason you cannot see the display. As the screen is totally black no one knows nor which side button to press for yes and even if I do I will not risk losing my only card I have to access my monthly pension. The fact that pressing the cancel button takes you back to an earlier display screen suggests this and porves the ATM is not out of order. By the way the taller ATMs work OK for BKB cards.

Before anybody say use another banks ATM I wish to mention I like to use BKB ATMs because:

1) I can withdraw ฿25,000 a time (my UK bank maximum daily limit would kick in around ฿/26,000)

2) If there is a problem like no money, card retained I feel BKB is more likely to assist me when I have my savings accounts with the actual Branch I usually make my ATM withdrawals (I know they do to like losing accounts not even having them transferred to another branch of the same Bank

3) I used to use Aeon but they once debited my account but never gave me back my money. Aeon left me to ask my bank to re-credit me (which it did) and I had to wait about 28 days to see if Aeon challenged my banks reverse debit.

At the end of the day if the banks are continuously upping their ATM transaction fees for Foreign cards they can at least have the courtesy to make sure we foreigners can use their all their types of ATM with our cards.

BKB surely must by now be aware of the issue and I do not know the issue still exists, after all if we foreigners stop using BKB ATMs they are going to lose a lot of Transaction fee to other Banks ATMs

[Pib]

Just a few weeks ago I received a similar response to using my Bangkok Bank debit card in a Bangkok Bank ATM. After pressing the amount I wanted the ATM then displayed not a black screen but just a screen with a little bit of text on it (I forget what it said) and it was a good minute staying stuck on that screen before it spit out my card but didn't give me any money. Even tried it a second time with same result.

I watched a few other people after me experience the same problem. I even warned them in advance but they still tried. A week later when I tried the same ATM again it worked fine...and it worked fine a few days ago. The ATM must have just had a communications/problem on the day I experienced my problem.

My biggest concern was my Bangkok Bank debit card going to be spit out/returned and it was...but I was sweating for a good minute as I waited for its return.

No amounts were withdrawn form my account on the several times the ATM failed to give me money and kept me sweating for about a minute before spitting out my card.

[JimGant]

Pib, presumably the chipped "smart" Be1st card?

Just a few weeks ago I received a similar response to using my Bangkok Bank debit card in a Bangkok Bank ATM

.

As we know, these cards can only be used in Bangkok Bank ATM machines (the only chip readers yet to date in Thailand), which, presumably, tall or short, function with the Be1st chipped cards only in the chipped mode. It's magnetic stripe is programmed to read "this card only works in the chip/pin mode." Other ATM cards, without chips -- but only the plain vanilla magnetic stripe -- automatically default to the stripe and pin mode. And many ATM cards, with chips, allow a fall back to stripe mode should the machine not be a chip reader (unlike with the Be1st smart card).

Thus, the ATM software programmers are earning their money -- and missing a few key strokes. Sounds like for gdhm, the short machine got the smarter programmer.

And, sounds like maybe (from another thread), your chipped Schwab card has also hit a software snag, as its stripe is certainly no longer plain vanilla, but has the lead in "i'm a chipped card, that's my priority, but i'll default to stripe if you can't read my chip." Thus, some head scratching from those ATM machines not yet successfully programmed to read the no longer plain vanilla strip.

Edited December 4, 2015 by JimGant

[Pib]

Pib, presumably the chipped "smart" Be1st card?

Just a few weeks ago I received a similar response to using my Bangkok Bank debit card in a Bangkok Bank ATM

.

As we know, these cards can only be used in Bangkok Bank ATM machines (the only chip readers yet to date in Thailand), which, presumably, tall or short, function with the Be1st chipped cards only in the chipped mode. It's magnetic stripe is programmed to read "this card only works in the chip/pin mode." Other ATM cards, without chips -- but only the plain vanilla magnetic stripe -- automatically default to the stripe and pin mode. And many ATM cards, with chips, allow a fall back to stripe mode should the machine not be a chip reader (unlike with the Be1st smart card).

Thus, the ATM software programmers are earning their money -- and missing a few key strokes. Sounds like for gdhm, the short machine got the smarter programmer.

And, sounds like maybe (from another thread), your chipped Schwab card has also hit a software snag, as its stripe is certainly no longer plain vanilla, but has the lead in "i'm a chipped card, that's my priority, but i'll default to stripe if you can't read my chip." Thus, some head scratching from those ATM machines not yet successfully programmed to read the no longer plain vanilla strip.

My particular Bangkok Bank debit card is the "non-smart/non-chipped" debit card....magnetic stripe only. I haven't switched to their chipped card yet because I want the ability to withdraw from any Thai bank ATM. I figure that particular Bangkok Bank ATM was just sick at the time me and other Bangkok Bank debit card holders attempted to use it....but a week later it was fine again. I've used this particular ATM a lot over the last few years and it acted up like this once last year also and I also had a Bangkok Bank ATM at a Makro store act up the same way a year or so ago...and I've used that ATM also since then with no problem. ATMs just have their bad days just like our computers act-up on us sometimes.

Regarding the new Schwab chipped card issue me and others are having as discussed in another thread...and that same thread shows others with the new Schwab chipped card are not having any problems...I may test my Schwab card in different TMB/Krungsri ATMs away from this mall where I have these ATMs are located...the ATMs are actually part of the banks within the mall. Maybe the communications network going from this mall to the Visa network is just funky....it didn't use to be with my card's were magnetic stripe only. But the branch outlets and their ATMs were all remodeled/replaced about the time I got my new Schwab chipped card around 6 months ago...and as mentioned in the other thread when Schwab sent me a replacement/2nd chipped card it didn't work no better...in fact it has worked less in those particular Krungsri/TMB ATMs in this mail. My other foreign debit card (magnetic stripe only) still works fine in those ATMs.

Where I said I "may" test my Schwab chipped card in different TMB/Krungsri ATMs, I say may because since I now know the Krungsri branch I've been using for my counter withdrawal (use the Schwab chipped card in their POS machine) will also do counter withdrawals for debit cards when combining that with my loathing of giving the Thai banksters a Bt200 ATM fee even though my card reimburses that to me, my curiosity will have to get higher for me to do that additional ATM testing. Plus the ladies that handle my counter withdrawals at this Krungsri branch are sooooooooo pretty. Yea, curiosity will need to climb a little to motivate more testing but I'm sure I will do some additional testing over the next few months.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Pib

[tropo]

THB still charging 180 baht.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And AEON still charging 150 baht, at least as of my last withdrawal on Dec. 2, but with a maximum 20K withdrawal.

[SoFarAndNear]

I have a friend who is from Hong Kong. He has a DebitCard of a Hong Kong Bank with UnionPay. TMB ATM only charges 50THB per transaction...

[Pib]

Yes, the Thai bank ATM Use Fee for UnionPay and American Express cards is only Bt50 compared to Bt200 for Visa/Mastercard. For some reason the UnionPay and AmEx card networks are not getting hit with the very high Bt200 fee....expect those networks have stronger network use contracts with its financial partners not allowing crazy high ATM use fee for their cards. Or maybe those networks provide a higher interchange fee which offsets the ATM Use fee loss. Who really knows...been like this for quite a while.

And just to stress, this is the ATM Use fee only....has nothing to do with the foreign transaction fee of several percent/flat fee the the card-issuing bank for the UnionPay/AmEx card may also charge.

For Americans and just for example, the American Express Bluebird pre-pay debit card only gets charged Bt50 use fee in Thai bank ATMs...but there is an AmEx foreign transaction fee of $2.50 (approx Bt90) per transaction.

[stament]

Is it always better to get money over the counter then on your card rather than via an atm or is the rate different?

[scubascuba3]

Is it always better to get money over the counter then on your card rather than via an atm or is the rate different?

I would expect the FX rate to be the same, counter vs ATM, it depends on your card not ATM/Bank unless you are daft and opt to use their rate at ATM.

[55Jay]

Is it always better to get money over the counter then on your card rather than via an atm or is the rate different?

I would expect the FX rate to be the same, counter vs ATM, it depends on your card not ATM/Bank unless you are daft and opt to use their rate at ATM.

Indeed, FOREX determined by Visa / Mastercard unless you elect to use the Dynamic Currency Conversion option, which you shouldn't do.

Over the counter would be "better" than using the ATM if your bank does not reimburse you the ATM fee. As mentioned here many times though, finding a Thai bank that'll agree to do an over the counter transaction with a Debit/ATM card, can be hit and miss.

[gdhm]

Is it always better to get money over the counter then on your card rather than via an atm or is the rate different?

I would expect the FX rate to be the same, counter vs ATM, it depends on your card not ATM/Bank unless you are daft and opt to use their rate at ATM.

I agree however there is one "fly in the ointment" IF you know the daily rate on the day BEFORE withdrawal then you know exactly what rate will be used for a withdrawal via ATM. You cannot be sure which day a Bank counter withdrawal will be processed on (may well be next day or even day after - depends on bank and branch) so the exchange rate used may differ (up or down).

Of course with Thai ATM transaction fees and also your card provider may have ATM charges it would need a large exchange rate swing over a 2-3 period to be maybe better off with ATM withdrawals based upon known rate before withdrawal but big swings in both directions happens quite regularly

Example: Here are NW rates that uses Visa (Europe) daily rates for a recent period. That is a BIG swing over only 5 days (2.3%).

Luckily for me I knew the good rates on 03 Nov & 04 NOV (declared online very early in the day (Thai time) and I noticed a downward trend on xe.com AND poor forecasts for GBP, so I decided to make large ATM withdraws on 03 & 04 Nov.

If a person withdrew a large amount over the counter on 05 Nov seeing its good rate, and the bank took 2 days to process then they'd be very disappointed. ATMs however process IMMEDIATELY withdrawals are made so Exchange Rate is known (but of course you may not be able to withdraw such a larger amount in 1 transaction AND different providers may have other fees. ranging from (ZERO upwards) (and there is always the added danger of card skimming or ATM failure resulting it card retention to consider. I only ever use ATMs inside (ideally) or outside a Bank branch.

03 Nov 2015 ฿54.5470687420

04 Nov 2015 ฿54.5470687420

05 Nov 2015 ฿54.3629862693

06 Nov 2015 ฿53.9450841094

07 Nov 2015 ฿53.3212687920

IMHO each person must decide what is best/convenient/cheapest/least risk FOR THEMSELVES based upon their own card providers rates and charges, Thai Bank ATM fees, their own needs AND their own forecasting and analytic abilities.

Edited December 8, 2015 by gdhm

[Pib]

Same rate at ATM or counter. And remember don't accept a DCC transaction if the ATM offers that as it's lower than the card-network exchange rate.

And like gdhm said above the exchange rate you get will depend on when the transaction "posts" to your account. For a U.S. debit card it will most like be same day rate since U.S. debit cards use single messaging transaction settlement but it appears at least some European bank debit cards use double messaging settlement like used for credit cards which means the posting date will probably be a business day or two later. So, when checking the rate you got be sure to use the rate on the "posting" date and not the actual transaction date.