Putin and Hollande agree on greater cooperation over Syrian air strikes

[webfact]

Putin and Hollande agree on greater cooperation over Syrian air strikes



MOSCOW: -- The presidents of France and Russia have been meeting in Moscow to discuss strengthening cooperation in the fight against Islamic State militants.

Both Vladimir Putin and Francois Hollande said they agreed there was a need for greater coordination to be more effective in air strikes, and to avoid a repeat of Turkey’s downing of a Russian fighter jet on Tuesday.

Putin described the shooting as an “act of betrayal” by a country Moscow considered to be its ally.

Hollande repeated his belief that Syria’s President Bashar al-Assad can not be part of Syria’s political future but Putin said such a decision could only be made by the Syrian people.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-27

[NongKhaiKid]

Of course they agree on greater co-operation as it's the right thing to say and Hollande has called for a ' grand coalition ' to combat ISIS.

Sounds wonderful except for the fact that so many potential members have different agendas and agreement on reaching a common goal is unlikely as while supposedly working ' together ' they'll actually be trying to reach their own planned aims.

Edited November 26, 2015 by NongKhaiKid

[Usernames]

Of course they agree on greater co-operation as it's the right thing to say and Hollande has called for a ' grand coalition ' to combat ISIS.

Sounds wonderful except for the fact that so many potential members have different agendas and agreement on reaching a common goal is unlikely as while supposedly working ' together ' they'll actually be trying to reach their own planned aims.

Nobody out there is going to let the French lead a coalition of anything.

[Pakboong]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

[Publicus]

This thread is already launched into orbit.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Publicus

[craigt3365]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

[Pakboong]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

Start with BRICS. Point is: a net gain against a net loss. Even Japan is drifting. Not there yet, still have some drifting to do. Poland is drifting as well. Many more will join BRICS as it matures. Few if any will renew their connections to the IMF. Again, a net gain. It matters and has a ways to go.

I am pretty sure that Putin has many plays in his head. He is not a "one play at a time" guy.

Intelligence Analysis has very little to do with Patriotism or Bias, it only has to do with what is happening right now and where is it going?

Edited November 27, 2015 by Pakboong

[animatic]

Leadership, effective leadership, is more about motivation to speed the plow than being the biggest dog.

All that is needed is the time and effort put in to realign some of the interests of disparate governments to more dovetail towards a common purpose, by arguing effectively that each potential partners long term, greater interests are served by working more closely.

Hollande after floundering for years has his defining moment and is effectively doing just that. He has more than enough impetus and motivation to do so. And it appears there is enough world wide consensus to stifle ISIS that he is being effective.

Does this mean France will be in charge of a USA-Russia lead coalition, no. NATO will lead. But it does mean Hollande has brought major players more inline and organized in common cause, because he has made it clear it benefits them all long term. Getting old enemies Russia and NATO together on the same page and cooperating is a very good step forward, for all of Europe and Russia.

Not that it changes their other issues, only that it puts those aims in different perspective of importance. But still any mutual cooperation is a major positive outcome, if that then disposes of ISIS effectively, is a good outcome.

Edited November 27, 2015 by animatic

[Usernames]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

Start with BRICS. Point is: a net gain against a net loss. Even Japan is drifting. Not there yet, still have some drifting to do. Poland is drifting as well. Many more will join BRICS as it matures. Few if any will renew their connections to the IMF. Again, a net gain. It matters and has a ways to go.

I am pretty sure that Putin has many plays in his head. He is not a "one play at a time" guy.

Intelligence Analysis has very little to do with Patriotism or Bias, it only has to do with what is happening right now and where is it going?

Poland join the BRICS forum? Pure craziness. The Poles just got out from under Russian rule. They're not about to put themselves back under it. And you think Japan will ally with China? What are you thinking? http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2015/11/25/the-death-of-brics/

Edited November 27, 2015 by Usernames

[does]

I am surprised you are scared by Russia and surprised by the analogy you make with Nazi Germany. Your post could be a transcript of a Fox TV Pantagon analyst. You should be concerned about IS/Daesh. Like it or not, Russia's intervention in the region finally seems to have woken up the West.

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

[Pakboong]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

Start with BRICS. Point is: a net gain against a net loss. Even Japan is drifting. Not there yet, still have some drifting to do. Poland is drifting as well. Many more will join BRICS as it matures. Few if any will renew their connections to the IMF. Again, a net gain. It matters and has a ways to go.

I am pretty sure that Putin has many plays in his head. He is not a "one play at a time" guy.

Intelligence Analysis has very little to do with Patriotism or Bias, it only has to do with what is happening right now and where is it going?

Poland join the BRICS forum? Pure craziness. The Poles just got out from under Russian rule. They're not about to put themselves back under it. And you think Japan will ally with China? What are you thinking? http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2015/11/25/the-death-of-brics/

Don't confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. There are several who are waiting. Iran,Yemen, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. All of the southern Europe is ripe for a change

[craigt3365]

Iran, Yemen, NK, Venezuela? What a sorry lot of countries. As for S. Europe, they're fighting to stay in the EU. Can you imagine Yemen helping to bail out the Greeks financially? LOL

[slipperylobster]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

Russia's only ally is Iran....I have absolutely no idea what patboong is trying to infer.

What the article is saying is that Putin is falling in line with a US led coalition. He realizes the danger of going it alone. We have the Con on tacops/atc/airspace ....been doing it in that region for decades. Russia came in with guns blazing without realizing that they lacked Command, Communications and Intelligence....which are pretty basic to US forces and their allies

This link quotes Putin specifically acknowledging that Russia needs to fall in line with a US led Coalition.

. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/26/world/europe/ap-eu-paris-attacks-syria.html?ref=aponline

The Brits still have yet to wake up to the problem. When the next mass shooting happens there....(as in Paris)...they will probably fall in line as well. Unfortunately, without an armed police force...their is no deterrent for the terrorists.

Edited November 27, 2015 by slipperylobster

[h90]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

I think that old school calculation of your 1000 tanks against my 1500 tanks is pointless since the nukes.

Russia can flatten the NATO without problems and by doing that maybe causing a climate change that almost kill all humans. NATO can do the same. So war is now just some small local wars and economic war. When you look at that USA, Russia and EU look very bad. Don't know who is worse off..

[Usernames]

What allies is Russia picking up? France is a member of NATO and just trying to keep Russia from messing things up even more.

Just read an article about a new arms race. Russia has been in build up mode for years. Massive investments in their military. But still can't compare to the combined NATO force.

I think it's going to be more than a few years before the BRICs do any replacing. And it will be China as top dog, not Russia. Right? Brazil is a mess, Russia's economy is a mess, China is slowing down.

Start with BRICS. Point is: a net gain against a net loss. Even Japan is drifting. Not there yet, still have some drifting to do. Poland is drifting as well. Many more will join BRICS as it matures. Few if any will renew their connections to the IMF. Again, a net gain. It matters and has a ways to go.

I am pretty sure that Putin has many plays in his head. He is not a "one play at a time" guy.

Intelligence Analysis has very little to do with Patriotism or Bias, it only has to do with what is happening right now and where is it going?

Poland join the BRICS forum? Pure craziness. The Poles just got out from under Russian rule. They're not about to put themselves back under it. And you think Japan will ally with China? What are you thinking? http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2015/11/25/the-death-of-brics/

Don't confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. There are several who are waiting. Iran,Yemen, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. All of the southern Europe is ripe for a change

Okay, I see now that this is a gag. North Korea? Nobody wants North Korea. And Venezuela is yet another economy/country coming apart at the seams. Yemen? Really? This sounds like a list of beggars.

[craigt3365]

Methinks he just wound us up!

[retarius]

Of course they agree on greater co-operation as it's the right thing to say and Hollande has called for a ' grand coalition ' to combat ISIS.

Sounds wonderful except for the fact that so many potential members have different agendas and agreement on reaching a common goal is unlikely as while supposedly working ' together ' they'll actually be trying to reach their own planned aims.

Spot on NongKhai, one thing we should have learned is not to trust any words that come out of our leaders' mouths. The grand coalition s a great idea if everybody had the same aim....but Saudi's aims and Russia's aims don't coincide; neither do Turkey's and US's; etc etc

Everybody has a secret agenda and the current Russian agenda is the only one that has received mass publicity in western media, whether it is accurate or not ie to keep Assad in power...personally I don't think Putin gives a fig about Assad but he wants to ensure that the next ruler of Syria maintain friendly relations with Russia ie Russian bases and he wants to sort out the Muslim problem that he has in his own backyard.

Turkey wants a to annex a piece of Syria, and get a pieline built through Syria to Turkey but these aims has just gone down with the Russian jet; the US want to get a sympathetic dictator who will build a pipeline and have US companies get oil concessions and to help Israel annex a buffer zone between themselves and Syria. The list goes on.

What no one on earth cares about is the plight of the Syrian people who have had to suffer through all this.

The basic problem for Syria is that there are no honest brokers who will help them through this crisis and a lot of people who are profiting from the war and want a piece of something when the war is over.

[allanos]

Of the 5 BRICS countries, only one - India - is not in dire financial straits

currently. Brics is a long way off from having the kind of economic muscle that the EU

or North America has. What led to the downfall and break-up of the USSR 25 years

ago will come around and bite Russia in the ass again.

[Credo]

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

Putin would do well to pick his friends carefully.

When it comes to the ME, all I can say is: So many enemies, so little time.

[Pakboong]

I am surprised you are scared by Russia and surprised by the analogy you make with Nazi Germany. Your post could be a transcript of a Fox TV Pantagon analyst. You should be concerned about IS/Daesh. Like it or not, Russia's intervention in the region finally seems to have woken up the West.

What is scary about this is simply that Russia is picking up allies and the US is losing them. Will WW3 put an end to it?

Russia frightens me and I continue to wonder if people actually don't know that like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, who were ignored as they built one of the strongest military operations in world history, Russia is very strong at this point. It only took 16 years or so for the Nazis to develop that huge capability. They had been hog-tied by the Treaty of Versailles and were limited to a 100,000 man army and virtually no Navy or Air Force. I think people are asleep with regard to Russia and incorrectly believe they are still the pathetic remnants of the former Soviet Union. Not so at all. Their current capability is relatively stronger than the Nazis of 1939. Russia has had about 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Putin is not stupid. He has bigger fish to fry and has to be patient as BRICS evolves and replaces the IMF, World Bank, and BIS. It is at least a couple of years out and he is not about to risk what has already been accomplished. I expect him to be cautious and continue to play a stall game to the extent he is allowed. But, as he is stalling, he is building what could be the strongest military presence in world history.

This incident with Turkey could very well be a play against the stall.

I am about as concerned with ISIS and Daesh as I am with the Mexican Drug Cartel who have more money and soldiers than either. Russia has pretty much eliminated themselves as state sponsor of ISIS, that does leave my country (USA) and her top allies as the likely state sponsors. Without state sponsorship, ISIS would have a tough time whipping a Los Angeles street gang. ISIS has been around about 20 minutes. It usually takes a bit longer than that to recruit, train and arm an upstart power who is holding the first world hostage. if it is my country who is sponsoring ISIS there is not much I can do but hope we can stay out of the big war.

What I am concerned about most is that my retirement checks continue to show up in my bank account each month. Russia poses a large threat to that end.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Pakboong

[Publicus]

Maybe Putin can cooperate with Hollande and Cameron in the four day old hunt in the waters around UK for what's either a nuclear powered whale or a Russian submarine.

Naval and air forces of four Nato allied countries have spent the past four days and nights trying to locate what they've concluded is a Russian submarine doing recon in waters off UK. Searching is focused in the sea off Scotland.

France and Canada aided by US intelligence have joined UK in trying to ID the suspected Russian sub. Looking hard are a recon RAF plane, a Royal Navy frigate, and additional recon aircraft from France and Canada.

Suspicion is the Russian sub is looking for ways to cut UK communications in a war.

RAF plane in hunt for Russian submarine off Scotland

Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/raf-plane-in-hunt-for-russian-submarine-off-scotland-1-3956078#ixzz3sg3K6cxd

Recall Sweden earlier this year spent a lot of time searching unsuccessfully for a suspected Russian sub in its near waters. Russian bombers have been flying in to Nato countries air space for 16 or so months to include Canada and the USA.