California killing spurs concerns about fiance visa program

[rooster59]

California killing spurs concerns about fiance visa program

GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press
ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press


WASHINGTON (AP) — The woman who carried out the San Bernardino massacre with her husband came to the U.S. last year on a special visa for fiances of U.S. citizens, raising questions about whether the process can adequately vet people who may sympathize with terrorist groups.

Authorities said Friday that Pakistani citizen Tashfeen Malik, 27, pledged allegiance to the Islamic State group and its leader under an alias account on Facebook just moments before she and her husband, Syed Farook, opened fire on a holiday banquet for his co-workers Wednesday, killing 14. They later died in a gun battle with police.

Malik, who had been living Pakistan and visiting family in Saudi Arabia, passed several government background checks and entered the U.S. in July 2014 on a K-1 visa, which allowed her to travel to the U.S. and get married within 90 days of arrival.

Malik was subjected to a vetting process the U.S. government describes as vigorous, including in-person interviews, fingerprints, checks against U.S. terrorist watch lists and reviews of her family members, travel history and places where she lived and worked. The process began when she applied for a visa to move to the United States and marry Farook, a 28-year-old Pakistani-American restaurant health inspector who was raised in California.

Foreigners applying from countries recognized as home to Islamic extremists, such as Pakistan, undergo additional scrutiny before the State Department and Homeland Security Department approve permission for a K-1 visa.

"This is not a visa that someone would use because it is easy to get into the US, because there are more background checks on this type of visa than just about anything else," said Palma Yanni, a Washington-based attorney who has processed dozens of K-1 visas. "But fingerprints and biometrics and names aren't going to tell you what is in somebody's head unless they somewhere have taken some action."

The government's apparent failure to detect Malik's alleged sympathies before the shootings will likely have implications on the debate over the Obama administration's plans to accept Syrian refugees. Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views.

On Friday, ABC News reported that the address in her Pakistani hometown that Malik listed on her visa application does not exist. In response to a question about the ABC report, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said: "We are actively reviewing all of the information provided in the visa application and sharing it with our interagency partners as it relates to the investigation."

The vetting process for refugees is similar, though not identical, to the one for fiance-visa applicants.

Refugees submit to in-person interviews overseas, where they provide biographical details about themselves, including their families, friendships, social or political activities, employment, phone numbers and email accounts. They provide biometric information, including fingerprints. Syrians are subject to additional classified controls.

Those who come to the U.S. on a fiance visa must marry a U.S. citizen within 90 days or leave the country. Following the marriage, the immigrant becomes a conditional resident for two years and must ask the U.S. government to remove those conditions at the end of that waiting period and undergo another background check. If the request is approved, the immigrant receives a green card. Immigrants can apply to become U.S. citizens five years after winning a green card.

"Can we improve the system as technology grows? There is always room for improvement, but to indict the entire fiance visa system because of this is not the right path," said David Leopold, a past president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

Those who intersected with Malik in California could not offer much insight, as she was rarely seen in the Muslim community.

The couple was married Aug. 16, 2014, and held their wedding reception at the Islamic Center of Riverside, said Dr. Mustafa Kuko, the center's director. Kuko said he never met Malik because the party was divided into separate spaces for women and men.

"She never came to our mosque except once when they had their reception, and that night there were so many people around, my wife doesn't recall exactly how she looks or who she is," Kuko said. "We never saw her again."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-12-05

[khwaibah]

I'm not saying it will be don't be surprised if we don't see some big changes in the K1 over this. Yes it may effect Thailand.

[Scott]

In the past, these interviews have centered on the validity of the relationship to prevent marriages are for the purpose of immigration rather than a genuine relationship.

A non-existent address, if it would have been caught would have been invalidated the application.

[SgtRock]

On Friday, ABC News reported that the address in her Pakistani hometown that Malik listed on her visa application does not exist

If this is true. It has just opened up a whole new can of worms.

Heads should be rolling soon, metaphorically of course.

[manarak]

Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views.

This is the most worrying and pivotal.

1- in large parts of Pakistan and other countries it is perfectly normal to be an islamist extremist.

2- ISIS tells new indoctrinates to keep their new faith a secret

[zaphod reborn]

And how about the fact that they met through an online dating service. Obviously, the jihadists have figured out they can bypass regular immigration channels through another form of arranged marriages.

[Harsh Jones]

I'm not saying it will be don't be surprised if we don't see some big changes in the K1 over this. Yes it may effect Thailand.

All in the name of political correctness. If we had any common sense, we would just put wives coming out of Saudi Arabia for starters, under special scrutiny or just exclude them all together. But nope. Buddhist women from SE Asia who are looking for an honest better life will pay the price.

[Harsh Jones]

On Friday, ABC News reported that the address in her Pakistani hometown that Malik listed on her visa application does not exist

If this is true. It has just opened up a whole new can of worms.

Heads should be rolling soon, metaphorically of course.

Its not that simple. Some will get through. Some will always beat the system. There is no perfect vetting solution other then a complete ban on K1's for certain extremist countries.

[Rocceao]

My Grand Father emigrated to Australia in 1927, lived and worked quietly in a low income job, had no problems with the law or anyone else.

1939 Australia went to war.

My Grand Father and everyone else that emigrated from his country, including all of the countries being controlled by the axis forces, were arrested and put into internment camps for the duration of the war.

We are at war with islamic extremeists, we know what counrties they operate in, who supports them financially and logistically, what their mindset is, yet we let then in with open arms, to get intrenched in our society which they dispise, just so they can attack us from within.

I don't understand it.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rocceao

[SgtRock]

Harsh Jones, on 05 Dec 2015 - 13:12, said:

SgtRock, on 05 Dec 2015 - 12:27, said:

Quote

On Friday, ABC News reported that the address in her Pakistani hometown that Malik listed on her visa application does not exist

If this is true. It has just opened up a whole new can of worms.

Heads should be rolling soon, metaphorically of course.

Its not that simple. Some will get through. Some will always beat the system. There is no perfect vetting solution other then a complete ban on K1's for certain extremist countries.

Harsh,

I never said it was simple, neither did I say that there was a perfect system.

But if the basics are not verified ( Non existent address ) then there is little hope for the whole system.

The basics are the building blocks for everything. If we cannot get the basics correct, everything else will be a cluster.

[impulse]

Suddenly, I have a newfound respect for the Thai immigration guys who visit foreigners at home.

If only to make sure there is a home at the given address.

[stevenl]

Just read this thread, and now the ad US fiancee visa for Thai' comes up .

Edited December 5, 2015 by stevenl

[simon43]

Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views

I can believe this.

What are considered 'extremist views' by many non-Muslims, are considered 'the norm' by so-called, moderate Muslims.

[stevenl]

Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views

I can believe this.

What are considered 'extremist views' by many non-Muslims, are considered 'the norm' by so-called, moderate Muslims.

Yes, when I hear Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum et al speak I think they have extremist views. But I'm sure their friends don't consider them extremists.

[Seastallion]

My Grand Father emigrated to Australia in 1927, lived and worked quietly in a low income job, had no problems with the law or anyone else.

1939 Australia went to war.

My Grand Father and everyone else that emigrated from his country, including all of the countries being controlled by the axis forces, were arrested and put into internment camps for the duration of the war.

We are at war with islamic extremeists, we know what counrties they operate in, who supports them financially and logistically, what their mindset is, yet we let then in with open arms, to get intrenched in our society which they dispise, just so they can attack us from within.

I don't understand it.

We (Western society) have grown since then.

Also, we (Western society) are not at war with any nation, nor with any religion, so how can you justify incarcerating a person because of their religion or nationality?

[Scott]

Off-topic and troll posts removed.

In my past experience, the majority of K-1 visa applications were for women marrying US citizens. By and large, I don't think women present a substantial risk to the security of most countries. Obviously this one did, but I don't know that an entire program should be dictate by one situation.

You can bet when they tighten up the program those most affected by it will be those that are the least threat.

K-1 visas have always come under scrutiny because there are cultural differences. A lot of Asian countries, particularly those with significant ethnic Chinese population and Indian heritage, have a history of arranged marriages, so proving the validity of the relationship is difficult. All applicants need to do is go to the country and marry the person and the whole process becomes much easier, since the applicant is now the spouse of a US citizen.

Major changes in the K-1 visa process will not make the US (or anywhere) much safer from terrorism.

[Acharn]

I'm not saying it will be don't be surprised if we don't see some big changes in the K1 over this. Yes it may effect Thailand.

It's already virtually impossible to get a K1 from Thailand. This will probably make it even harder (it's already very hard) to get a spousal visa from Thailand. Has been for thirty-five years. Or more, I don't go back that far.

[Acharn]

Off-topic and troll posts removed.

In my past experience, the majority of K-1 visa applications were for women marrying US citizens. By and large, I don't think women present a substantial risk to the security of most countries. Obviously this one did, but I don't know that an entire program should be dictate by one situation.

You can bet when they tighten up the program those most affected by it will be those that are the least threat.

K-1 visas have always come under scrutiny because there are cultural differences. A lot of Asian countries, particularly those with significant ethnic Chinese population and Indian heritage, have a history of arranged marriages, so proving the validity of the relationship is difficult. All applicants need to do is go to the country and marry the person and the whole process becomes much easier, since the applicant is now the spouse of a US citizen.

Major changes in the K-1 visa process will not make the US (or anywhere) much safer from terrorism.

Of course it won't but most Americans don't know anything about the program, the process, or immigration in general. They're simply pissing their pants terrified. There are 30,000 people a year killed by guns in the U.S. About 80 a day. 14 people killed? OK, today was a little above average. Not much, but a little. Most mass shootings are done by Americans. The male in this case was a native-born American. Doesn't matter. If only we can keep those frightening Muslim super-terrorists away we'll be safe. Do Something! Anything! I am so sad to see what my country has become.

[SgtRock]

Acharn, on 05 Dec 2015 - 19:29, said:

Scott, on 05 Dec 2015 - 18:10, said:

Off-topic and troll posts removed.

In my past experience, the majority of K-1 visa applications were for women marrying US citizens. By and large, I don't think women present a substantial risk to the security of most countries. Obviously this one did, but I don't know that an entire program should be dictate by one situation.

You can bet when they tighten up the program those most affected by it will be those that are the least threat.

K-1 visas have always come under scrutiny because there are cultural differences. A lot of Asian countries, particularly those with significant ethnic Chinese population and Indian heritage, have a history of arranged marriages, so proving the validity of the relationship is difficult. All applicants need to do is go to the country and marry the person and the whole process becomes much easier, since the applicant is now the spouse of a US citizen.

Major changes in the K-1 visa process will not make the US (or anywhere) much safer from terrorism.

Of course it won't but most Americans don't know anything about the program, the process, or immigration in general. They're simply pissing their pants terrified. There are 30,000 people a year killed by guns in the U.S. About 80 a day. 14 people killed? OK, today was a little above average. Not much, but a little. Most mass shootings are done by Americans. The male in this case was a native-born American. Doesn't matter. If only we can keep those frightening Muslim super-terrorists away we'll be safe. Do Something! Anything! I am so sad to see what my country has become.

Sentiments are a strange thing.

As a non American I feel exactly the sane way you do.

There is a lesson there. What a pity politicians think they know better.

[Harsh Jones]

Harsh Jones, on 05 Dec 2015 - 13:12, said:

SgtRock, on 05 Dec 2015 - 12:27, said:

Quote

On Friday, ABC News reported that the address in her Pakistani hometown that Malik listed on her visa application does not exist

If this is true. It has just opened up a whole new can of worms.

Heads should be rolling soon, metaphorically of course.

Its not that simple. Some will get through. Some will always beat the system. There is no perfect vetting solution other then a complete ban on K1's for certain extremist countries.

Harsh,

I never said it was simple, neither did I say that there was a perfect system.

But if the basics are not verified ( Non existent address ) then there is little hope for the whole system.

The basics are the building blocks for everything. If we cannot get the basics correct, everything else will be a cluster.

Countries like Pakistan don't even have a functioning address system so there is no way of getting the basics right in this case.

[Harsh Jones]

Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views

I can believe this.

What are considered 'extremist views' by many non-Muslims, are considered 'the norm' by so-called, moderate Muslims.

Yes, when I hear Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum et al speak I think they have extremist views. But I'm sure their friends don't consider them extremists.

Extreamist views of the Muslim variety is what they are talking about. As we see in the news on a weekly basis, extremist Muslims are a danger to the public.

[TheKnave]

I'm not saying it will be don't be surprised if we don't see some big changes in the K1 over this. Yes it may effect Thailand.

As the US Government continues to devolve into an oligarchy, expect more knee-jerk, short-sighted, feel-good changes to law, a la Thailand, and the other developing countries of SEA.

Guns will be banned, knife-attacks will increase, pocket knives carried in public will be subject to felony prosecution. Isolationism will rise again, with predictable results, etc, etc, etc.

And the Islamists win, due to the West's foolishness and apathy.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

There are immigration lawyers that will guarantee your k1 is accepted for a price. Corruption and fake marriages plague the system. Money is the root of all evils. In Thailand and Cambodia i have been offered 100k to marry someone's daughter whose family wants her to live in usa. Furthermore the immigration laws are bybassed everday by marriages to foreign men and women who are on student and tourist visa by going and marrying in las vegas which only requires you to stay in vegas 1 night. A lot of loop holes that need to be closed and prison time for those caught circumventing the immigration process.

[simple1]

Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views

I can believe this.

What are considered 'extremist views' by many non-Muslims, are considered 'the norm' by so-called, moderate Muslims.

Yes, when I hear Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum et al speak I think they have extremist views. But I'm sure their friends don't consider them extremists.

Extreamist views of the Muslim variety is what they are talking about. As we see in the news on a weekly basis, extremist Muslims are a danger to the public.

Equally possible the likes of Huckabee with his proposed ban on all abortions would lead to more deaths in the USA than those attributable to Islamist activities in the USA to date.

Edited December 5, 2015 by simple1

[sirineou]

My Grand Father emigrated to Australia in 1927, lived and worked quietly in a low income job, had no problems with the law or anyone else.

1939 Australia went to war.

My Grand Father and everyone else that emigrated from his country, including all of the countries being controlled by the axis forces, were arrested and put into internment camps for the duration of the war.

We are at war with islamic extremeists, we know what counrties they operate in, who supports them financially and logistically, what their mindset is, yet we let then in with open arms, to get intrenched in our society which they dispise, just so they can attack us from within.

I don't understand it.

what you dont understand is that

it was wrong then and it is wrong now

[Usernames]

What does Mike Huckabee and abortion have to do with the US fiance visa program, which is the actual topic of this thread?

[stevenl]

Attorneys representing Farook's family deny that he or his wife had extremist views

I can believe this.

What are considered 'extremist views' by many non-Muslims, are considered 'the norm' by so-called, moderate Muslims.

Yes, when I hear Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum et al speak I think they have extremist views. But I'm sure their friends don't consider them extremists.

Extreamist views of the Muslim variety is what they are talking about. As we see in the news on a weekly basis, extremist Muslims are a danger to the public.

It's about extremists entering the US. And extremists come in all varieties and are all potentially dangerous.

[cooked]

I heard an FBI agent on the BBC this morning saying that their hands are often tied by privacy laws brought in by Obama.

[Si Thea01]

My Grand Father emigrated to Australia in 1927, lived and worked quietly in a low income job, had no problems with the law or anyone else.

1939 Australia went to war.

My Grand Father and everyone else that emigrated from his country, including all of the countries being controlled by the axis forces, were arrested and put into internment camps for the duration of the war.

We are at war with islamic extremeists, we know what counrties they operate in, who supports them financially and logistically, what their mindset is, yet we let then in with open arms, to get intrenched in our society which they dispise, just so they can attack us from within.

I don't understand it.

We (Western society) have grown since then.

Also, we (Western society) are not at war with any nation, nor with any religion, so how can you justify incarcerating a person because of their religion or nationality?

Grown to what? I'll tell you, a lilly livered bunch of do-gooders, who, for whatever reason, decry everything that is expressed about those who live within our society, hate us and have expressed their intention to kill all infidels and put in place their 14th century cultures, beliefs and the best one of all, Sharia Law. Why are so many afraid to speak their mind about so few? I'll tell you, it's because they will be called racist, bigots and other such niceties, as those who do the calling cannot provide a vaild argument and use those specific terms to stifle debate and try and stop people who have legitimate fears from expressing themselves. Andno this is not an Islamphobia rant either.

And yes, you're right we are not at war with them, it has not been declared from our side but they have declared war on us, the infidels. I cannot understand how weak our so called leaders are, in paricular Obama, who is flip flopping all over the place. Does his followings have anything to do with it? We might as well be at war, given what is happening in the Middle Easr, Africa and other countries where these psychopathic killers of men, women and children, mainly of the same faith, operate and we are losing the lives of our servicemen and women in an attempt to curtail their atrocities.

I wouldn't incarcerate anyone either because of their nationality or religion but these monsters need to be eradicated from the planet. I would certainly profile them, vet them more closely and unless they had bonafide documents and were able to provide in depth details of their past, then they would not be allowed to travel to any country unless such information was forthcoming, and able to be verified. Unfortunately, there is a very valid saying that is: not all muslims are terrorists but most terrorists are muslim. Why is this so?

They are barbaric killers, beheading people, trying to wipe out certain ethnic minorities, (ethnic cleansing) blowing up innocent people, mass shootings, using children and women as bombers, all in the name of Allah and Islam, the so called peaceful religion. Not even a religion, it's an ideology, nothing more, nothing less, just read the Qur'an, I have, and you will see. And yes, the Bible also has it's faults, so I am not biased, as one can see what Christians have been involved in, in the past.

However, today, it is the Islamist extremists that people fear, those based in the middle east as well as the younger ones who live in numerous countries, whom they have radicalised and are now or will be in the future, operating from within. One only has to look at what is happening world wide, in Europe, England, France, Germany, need I go on. These countries and continents will never be the same, and more and more people, everday, will live in fear and never know peace as it was meant to be.

[jing jing]

I've been through the K1 fiance visa process over 10 years ago (but didn't marry within 90 days), then the K2 tourist visa process, and finally the marriage / change of status / application for permanent residence (green card) process - all in California, all with the same (Thai) woman.

The hoops we had to jump through during each process were numerous, but essentially boiled down to my taking financial responsibility for her (love doesn't pay the bills, teerak).

They do ask if the applicant is a terrorist or wants to overthrow the government but I advised her to check the "no" box on those. We did likewise during the interviews, and Bob was indeed our uncle.

I wonder if anyone is ever refused entry as the spouse of a native-born US citizen? Maybe USCIS will start focusing on more important parameters than financial independence now but I doubt it, because pretty soon someone would scream 'profiling,' get lawyered up, sue for millions, and probably win.