Immigration in Chiang Mai as compared to other provinces.

[elgordo38]

Welcome to being a "guest" in Thailand Northernjohn.

Thank you. It is a pleasure to live here.

The Immigration for the permission to stay can be a pain but it is only once a year and the 90 days are no problem I can mail them in or go in and make a day of it with a movie and a good meal.

Here in Chiang Mai we also have the choice of hiring an agent to do the paper work and establish a time for us. Costly for some as high as 5,500 baht just to do the work plus the 1,900 baht immigration charge or as low as 3,000 baht plus the 1,900.

I am glad to hear that the rest of the country does not have the delays we do here. Delays as has been pointed out here is from the massive influx of people choosing Chiang Mai as the place to live. Seems like the news of how great a place it is to live is spreading like wild fire.

Hopefully Immigration will catch up to them. It is actually a matter of time looks like it is going to be a long time. As was mentioned we have super staff just not enough of them.

Duck John the love it or leave it crowd will be coming for you.

[bazza40]

Why can't they put up a sign saying only 30 cards are distributed daily? Imm why no sign.JPG

They have other nonsense signs outside the office:

Immigration Time Table.jpg

P.S. Notice everyone behind the guy pointing. Those are people who arrived before opening, hoping to process retirement extensions that day. No luck for them, either. And the lucky 30 who did receive queue cards aren't going to be "processed" in 30 minutes, like that sign says. Sure, their interview will be done in that time, but their passports won't be returned until well into the afternoon. It's at least a 12 hour process to obtain a retirement extension in Chiang Mai.

(These photos were not taken inside the Imm. office, but in the public area in the mall outside the office where people start to queue at 3 am in the dark.

Something wrong with the math here.

Assuming CM Immigration does not work weekends, that's 261 working days. Not counting all the Thai public holidays.

If there are only 30 cards per day, that's a total of 30 X 261 = 7830 retirement extensions a year, excluding the agents.

Somehow, I think there's a hell of a lot more than approximately 8000 falang retirees in CM. Which means either the system is way under-resourced, or something else is in play.

[stephenterry]

Two issues are very clear:

1 There are more retirees using CM Immigration than the staff can process in any one day. Evidence is the restricted number of 'cards' issued on any one day, and the numbers turned away.

2. That BKK Immigration do not grant additional staff positions to CM to resolve 1. This is hearsay, but not evidence. Needs verifying.

From what I've witnessed and seen, is that other Imm offices across Thailand do not have these issues. I wonder if BKK have a manpower spec for every office in Thailand that is in need of overhaul in respect of CM? Would it be sensible to send more letters to the BKK Post newspaper to highlight this continuing situation? As for e-mailing the consulates, that's a complete waste of time IMO, because no way are they going to risk their gravy jobs in BKK to complain to the authorities, however diplomatically it's presented.

To make my position clear: I resent having to fork out 3,000 baht minimum to an agent to receive the same adequate (and free) service provided elsewhere in Thailand.

[davidcnx]

I haven't read all the comments, so perhaps someone has already said that a number of embassies are working with CM Immigration to encourage them to adopt a modified online booking system like the one used by the British Embassy. There have been so many complaints to embassies, especially by elderly expats, about having to start lining up at 4 a.m. in the hope ( sometimes futile) of getting a number to renew their retirement visas, that diplomatic staff are now seriously concerned. Also of concern is the fact that at least one immigration officer is operating his own visa service office next to Immigration to cash in on what may be the deliberate "inefficiency" of the main office. He has been seen collected fat fees and then walking through the "staff only" door to the main office to jump the queue, no doubt paying kickbacks to the staff there: very lucrative for all concerned, considering the number the office handles each day!. Other regular applicants are then, of course, even further delayed.

Anyway, let's hope the CM Immigration office really does want to improve and aren't just pretending to be interested in order to get the embassies off their backs. It would be great if everyone who wants a retirement visa renewal could book online. Then other services could also be provided this much less stressful way.

[connda]

Over the past 7 years I have watched the situation at CM Imm go from decent to deplorable. To me, it's not necessarily the fault of the Immigration Staff, but mainly due to the seriously increased number of expats and other foreigners now living here. And a large majority of them are rude and impatient, and seem to think they are somehow more important that others. On the other hand, Immigration here seriously needs to double the size of it's staff. But in talking to one Immigration Official here, that decision has to be made in BKK, so CM authorities are helpless to do anything.

Something needs to be done. Most of us know what the problem is, but only BKK can provide the solution, so don't hold your breath.

My guess is that the situation in Chiang Mai has yet to go from deplorable to intolerable. To expand on Northernjohn's description of our situation here in CM, at the present time, the offices are still split between the office location at the 'old' Airport Office and the 'new' office at the Promenade complex. The Promenade handles: Retirement extensions, 90 days report, Tourist Visa, Medical Visa, and Re-entry Permits. Northerjohn's excellent description is only regarding the Immigration Services at the new Promenade complex. As one Immigration customer recently noted, there were approximately 200 customers waiting at the Promenade Immigration office at 7am on Dec 19 waiting for the offices to open! Immigration has yet to merge the Airport offices with the offices at the Promenade, although through the grapevine (and the CM Thai Visa formum) we hear that that is the plan for the near future.

Currently the Airport office handles Non-O Marriage extensions, Education Visas, and all other services not at the Promenade complex. Once these services are merged (the Airport Services moved to the Promenade complex), my guess is that customer service will go from deplorable to intolerable. Envision 300, 325, 350 or more customers waiting in line at 700am any given morning. That many people, including the elderly needing to stand in line started at 4am in the morning (if you want to assure a queue number for the day). So imagine approximately 300+ people standing in this line at 700am in nice weather:

Or 300+ people crammed under cover and fighting a place in line or to maintain a place in line in inclement weather:

And if Immigration chooses to allow some folks to sit inside they can accommodate 45 people. Everyone else is on their own to stand outside, mill around, or go shopping, however, with no queue system other than verbally shouting out queue numbers (there is no local or centralized Electronic Queue Management System as they have in just about every government facility I've been to in Thailand), if anyone leaves the immediate premise they chance losing their reserved queue:

They have serious logistical problems and an amazingly short-sighted vision of the future of their Immigration Services here in Chiang Mai. With proper foresight and planning, this could have been avoided, speaking as someone with a background in project management. But instead, we have an utter mess here beautiful Chiang Mai. I simply remind myself over and over -- This Is Thailand.

[connda]

Over the past 7 years I have watched the situation at CM Imm go from decent to deplorable. To me, it's not necessarily the fault of the Immigration Staff, but mainly due to the seriously increased number of expats and other foreigners now living here. And a large majority of them are rude and impatient, and seem to think they are somehow more important that others. On the other hand, Immigration here seriously needs to double the size of it's staff. But in talking to one Immigration Official here, that decision has to be made in BKK, so CM authorities are helpless to do anything.

Something needs to be done. Most of us know what the problem is, but only BKK can provide the solution, so don't hold your breath.

My guess is that the situation in Chiang Mai has yet to go from deplorable to intolerable. To expand on Northernjohn's description of our situation here in CM, at the present time, the offices are still split between the office location at the 'old' Airport Office and the 'new' office at the Promenade complex. The Promenade handles: Retirement extensions, 90 days report, Tourist Visa, Medical Visa, and Re-entry Permits. Northerjohn's excellent description is only regarding the Immigration Services at the new Promenade complex. As one Immigration customer recently noted, there were approximately 200 customers waiting at the Promenade Immigration office at 7am on Dec 19 waiting for the offices to open! Immigration has yet to merge the Airport offices with the offices at the Promenade, although through the grapevine (and the CM Thai Visa formum) we hear that that is the plan for the near future.

Currently the Airport office handles Non-O Marriage extensions, Education Visas, and all other services not at the Promenade complex. Once these services are merged (the Airport Services moved to the Promenade complex), my guess is that customer service will go from deplorable to intolerable. Envision 300, 325, 350 or more customers waiting in line at 700am any given morning. That many people, including the elderly needing to stand in line started at 4am in the morning (if you want to assure a queue number for the day). So imagine approximately 300+ people standing in this line at 700am in nice weather:

Prom1.jpg

Or 300+ people crammed under cover and fighting a place in line or to maintain a place in line in inclement weather:

Prom3.jpg

And if Immigration chooses to allow some folks to sit inside they can accommodate 45 people. Everyone else is on their own to stand outside, mill around, or go shopping, however, with no queue system other than verbally shouting out queue numbers (there is no local or centralized Electronic Queue Management System as they have in just about every government facility I've been to in Thailand), if anyone leaves the immediate premise they chance losing their reserved queue:

Prom2.jpg

They have serious logistical problems and an amazingly short-sighted vision of the future of their Immigration Services here in Chiang Mai. With proper foresight and planning, this could have been avoided, speaking as someone with a background in project management. But instead, we have an utter mess here beautiful Chiang Mai. I simply remind myself over and over -- This Is Thailand.

I have to agree with DP25. If they'd establish another regional office to serve Lamphun, Lampang, and points south as Immigration does for Chiang Rai and the northern provinces, they might take a significant load off of Chiang Mai. They have an office in Lampang, they would just need to staff it. But just a guess without knowing the demographics of the customer base. But turning away the same customers multiple times indicates a serious logistical problem with the office.

[connda]

I used the Korat offices for three years. Prior to their move to new offices in Dan Kwian, their service sucked: they had no functional queue system, Thai agents would routinely jump the line, complaints would go unheeded, and the I/Os were just a sullen group of people with no idea of customer service. But, even on a bad day you would have a place to sit inside the office. There were generally no more than 20 or 30 customers in their office at a shot.

After the move to Dan Kwian, the service improved dramatically. Other than one sullen I/O, I had no complaints with the office. In and out in minutes for a 90 day, and maybe a 30 minute wait to be seen for an extension, and other 30 minutes to process it. And the staff, including the head honcho were professional. No seating problem, no queuing problems. I was quiet happy with them prior to moving to Chiang Mai.

[NancyL]

Hey, Chiang Mai people --- I think we've done a good job of telling the rest of the folks in Thailand just how bad it is for us. Perhaps it would be better if we now back off and let them have their say about what the conditions are like in their offices. The key questions are:

1. What time do you have to arrive in order to receive a one year extension, i.e. before the office opens, or anytime during business hours?

2. How long do you have to wait after you get a queue number in order to be seen by an Immigration officer?

3. How long after your interview with the Immigration officer do you have to wait for your passport to be returned?

4. And what about 90 day reports? Are those an in-and-out exercise or a multi-hour ordeal at the office?

To answer some of the questions about CM Imm -- yes, the math doesn't "add up" on why the number of queue cards being distributed doesn't equal the number of retirees. Some retirement extensions are handled by a favored visa agent, with premises right on the space that Imm rents. That visa agent doesn't need to have its agents queue up. The other visa agents do.

But, a bigger factor on why the numbers don't "add up" is that (at least in the past) many CM retirees were actually seasonal and would return to their home countries every year and come back with double or triple entry tourist visas, not retirement visas. Don't know what's going to happen now with the new METV. I know many seasonal retirees who arrived in November on visa exempt status, thinking they could go to Laos and get a double entry TV, just like last year. Oops.

And as to whether CM people have complained to their Embassies, had meetings with Immigration Bangkok, written to Bangkok Post, done this or done that to try to resolve the problem -- well, could we just stick with the OP's original question and look for reports of what the conditions are like at other Immigration offices?

[ubonjoe]

I will not rub it in as to how much better it is here at immigration.

For my last extension I got there at about 1 pm and just walked up to the counter and laid out my paper work. Only one other person was there that appeared to be finishing off an application from the morning. After they left my wife and I were the only ones in the office other than than the officers for the remainder to the time we were there.;

[LivinLOS]

On Phuket it was also busy, but a 1 or 2 hour wait is a huge wait.. usually its 20 - 30 mins to be seen.

That said Phukets immigration staff were the nastiest, rudest, most horrible interactions I have ever had in 15 years here.. They would purposefully say and do things to make you angry playing a game of 'see if we can make them blow up' when you did see someone finally pop you could see their smirks.. It was one of the reasons I called it quits on Phuket as they were simply a reminder of the outsider nature and not so hidden dislike that is more common down there..

Chiang Mai may be over worked (or rather slow) but they have never been unprofessional with me, in fact rarely anything other than smiling and nice.. That goes a long way to helping me deal with the waiting.

Another satisfied "guest" LivinLOS?

Meaning ???

I dont have stockholm syndrome at all.. But having faced the kind of insults that in any other situation would be goading someone to come to blows, chiang mai is slow but not nasty..

I just did my annual, and was one of the last with an appointment, if theres no appointments next year, maybe I will drop back to taking holidays (I tend to travel anyway and have no hope of a citizenship app in the pipeline) or just pay an agent.. We shouldnt have to, but its their game and their rules..

[nong38]

Nakhon Sawan is excellent, 90 day report is usually under 5 minutes, last time for me was 2 minutes. Annual renewal last month was all done and dusted in 10 minutes. The staff are good, quick and friendly, from what I am reading we must have probably the best office in Thailand it seems to be very well run and never a hint of anything else if you get my drift. One of the advantages of living in this area is the Immigration Office, I would give them 10/10, they do exactly what they are supposed to.

[NoshowJones]

On Phuket it was also busy, but a 1 or 2 hour wait is a huge wait.. usually its 20 - 30 mins to be seen.

That said Phukets immigration staff were the nastiest, rudest, most horrible interactions I have ever had in 15 years here.. They would purposefully say and do things to make you angry playing a game of 'see if we can make them blow up' when you did see someone finally pop you could see their smirks.. It was one of the reasons I called it quits on Phuket as they were simply a reminder of the outsider nature and not so hidden dislike that is more common down there..

Chiang Mai may be over worked (or rather slow) but they have never been unprofessional with me, in fact rarely anything other than smiling and nice.. That goes a long way to helping me deal with the waiting.

Another satisfied "guest" LivinLOS?

Meaning ???

I dont have stockholm syndrome at all.. But having faced the kind of insults that in any other situation would be goading someone to come to blows, chiang mai is slow but not nasty..

I just did my annual, and was one of the last with an appointment, if theres no appointments next year, maybe I will drop back to taking holidays (I tend to travel anyway and have no hope of a citizenship app in the pipeline) or just pay an agent.. We shouldnt have to, but its their game and their rules..

I just mean that so many Farangs think we are "guests" in this country, and when I read about the way you were treated in Phuket, it is just another reason to think we are only tolerated here and not "guests".

I don't understand what you mean by "Stockholm syndrome". "who said that?" I love living here, and I love the people, but no way will I ever accept that I am a "guest". There are too many unnecessary hoops to jump through.

[bazza40]

I will not rub it in as to how much better it is here at immigration.

For my last extension I got there at about 1 pm and just walked up to the counter and laid out my paper work. Only one other person was there that appeared to be finishing off an application from the morning. After they left my wife and I were the only ones in the office other than than the officers for the remainder to the time we were there.;

Er - you just did.

[ubonjoe]

I will not rub it in as to how much better it is here at immigration.

For my last extension I got there at about 1 pm and just walked up to the counter and laid out my paper work. Only one other person was there that appeared to be finishing off an application from the morning. After they left my wife and I were the only ones in the office other than than the officers for the remainder to the time we were there.;

Er - you just did.

I could of made it worse if had I written more. Didn't think more salt was needed.

[Kasset Tak]

Nakorn Sawan is great and after they have renovated of the office even the lady that used to be a real pain in the ass has been really nice. 90 days report is basically just in and out.

Phitsanulok was great last year, they even processed my application for extension of non-B while living in Kamphaeng Phet (falls under the immigration in Nakorn Sawan) as there where no people and I was already there!?!?!?

Mukdahan immigration was great the only time I used them, I extended a tourist visa the same day I returned from Savanaket with no problem and still with my address in Kamphaeng Phet.

Tak immigration in Mae Sot is usually just a few people but they are by far the worst immigration office I have ever been to thanks to the attitude of the ladies behind the counter. I used to work in Tak (see my name...) and there was always problem (one way is 80km mountain road between Tak and Mae Sot) with my visa/extension and 90 days reports, always asking for more documents or new documents or more copies (one time they needed 5 copies of my passport???) last time they even refused to give me an extension on a tourist visa (between work) because my address is in Kamphaeng Phet but I was on my way to Meramat and Umpang for a funeral and to see my old students as it was holiday for me. The same ladies also refused to give extension of stay based on marriage (non-O) for one of my friends because they did not have time for a home visit! For another friend they asked for more and more documents so he ended overstaying and had to leave and start the non-O process again, he had had extension based on marriage for 10 years before that incident!!!

Edited December 21, 2015 by Kasset Tak

[northernjohn]

In Nakhon Pathom and Samut Sakhon is no queuing for the 90-days reports, but extensions and other affairs can be very different. Sometimes very fast and smooth, but if you have bad luck and there are hundreds of immigrant workers, so it happens too that you have to come back the next day. But i got used to this and understand, that they can't employ enough officers to match these days when severel big factories decide to bring their workers for extensions at once.

Sorry to hear that. We also had to go through that nightmare. Finally it got so bad they opened another office far away for the workers or what ever else it was they needed.

[northernjohn]

Nakorn Sawan is great and after they have renovated of the office even the lady that used to be a real pain in the ass has been really nice. 90 days report is basically just in and out.

Phitsanulok was great last year, they even processed my application for extension of non-B while living in Kamphaeng Phet (falls under the immigration in Nakorn Sawan) as there where no people and I was already there!?!?!?

Mukdahan immigration was great the only time I used them, I extended a tourist visa the same day I returned from Savanaket with no problem and still with my address in Kamphaeng Phet.

Tak immigration in Mae Sot is usually just a few people but they are by far the worst immigration office I have ever been to thanks to the attitude of the ladies behind the counter. I used to work in Tak (see my name...) and there was always problem (one way is 80km mountain road between Tak and Mae Sot) with my visa/extension and 90 days reports, always asking for more documents or new documents or more copies (one time they needed 5 copies of my passport???) last time they even refused to give me an extension on a tourist visa (between work) because my address is in Kamphaeng Phet but I was on my way to Meramat and Umpang for a funeral and to see my old students as it was holiday for me. The same ladies also refused to give extension of stay based on marriage (non-O) for one of my friends because they did not have time for a home visit! For another friend they asked for more and more documents so he ended overstaying and had to leave and start the non-O process again, he had had extension based on marriage for 10 years before that incident!!!

Thank you for your input. I have never had to get an extension based on marriage. But I have heard of some pretty strange request's here in Chiang Mai. I have also heard that in My Hong Son there can be some unusual requests. I think a lot of this is on the officers whim's. Don't know for sure. This is the first time I have heard of the request for extra copies of a passport. I think just in case I will always take two with me. I also take proof of residency for my extensions. Never been asked for one but others have. I even have the proof of income letters along with the document from the consulate. Never been asked but it cost me nothing to have them with me just in case.

[northernjohn]

On Phuket it was also busy, but a 1 or 2 hour wait is a huge wait.. usually its 20 - 30 mins to be seen.

That said Phukets immigration staff were the nastiest, rudest, most horrible interactions I have ever had in 15 years here.. They would purposefully say and do things to make you angry playing a game of 'see if we can make them blow up' when you did see someone finally pop you could see their smirks.. It was one of the reasons I called it quits on Phuket as they were simply a reminder of the outsider nature and not so hidden dislike that is more common down there..

Chiang Mai may be over worked (or rather slow) but they have never been unprofessional with me, in fact rarely anything other than smiling and nice.. That goes a long way to helping me deal with the waiting.

Another satisfied "guest" LivinLOS?

Meaning ???

I dont have stockholm syndrome at all.. But having faced the kind of insults that in any other situation would be goading someone to come to blows, chiang mai is slow but not nasty..

I just did my annual, and was one of the last with an appointment, if theres no appointments next year, maybe I will drop back to taking holidays (I tend to travel anyway and have no hope of a citizenship app in the pipeline) or just pay an agent.. We shouldnt have to, but its their game and their rules..

I just mean that so many Farangs think we are "guests" in this country, and when I read about the way you were treated in Phuket, it is just another reason to think we are only tolerated here and not "guests".

I don't understand what you mean by "Stockholm syndrome". "who said that?" I love living here, and I love the people, but no way will I ever accept that I am a "guest". There are too many unnecessary hoops to jump through.

I think we are just playing semantics here. I mean if I had a guest for years and years I would maybe have a hoop or two for them to jump through. Also Phuket is not all of Thailand. My wife has a ten year Visa for the United States. Yet no matter where we are every 6 months she has to leave the country. Easier to mail in a 90 day every 90 days. I personally do not feel that I am not wanted here but I can not speak for others. I can assure you there are a few people here I wish weren't here. Also some I wish were here.

We all have different experiences and take the same experience different than others. So what ever one feels is OK with me I might not understand it but I don't have to. On a side note if some one doesn't feel wanted here is that a 24 hour 7 day thing?

[Robert24]

One of the things I have learned is that complaining, moaning etc doesn't help in Thailand. Best to find alternative options and move on. If Chiang Mai immigration is bad, see if you can go to another office in a different province or use an agent. As I mentioned, I use the Khon Kaen office and it is really like day and night compared to Chiang Mai. And as I read on here, there are many other provinces providing equally as good of a service like Khon Kaen. So plenty of options.

[fred Kubasa]

It is not " Shortage of staff " but the shortage of brainpower in the existing staff !

[thai006]

cm is shit , really too much falang now , the traffic jam is really crazy , i will move to another place soon i think , tired to go 5 am at immigration

[stephenterry]

One of the things I have learned is that complaining, moaning etc doesn't help in Thailand. Best to find alternative options and move on. If Chiang Mai immigration is bad, see if you can go to another office in a different province or use an agent. As I mentioned, I use the Khon Kaen office and it is really like day and night compared to Chiang Mai. And as I read on here, there are many other provinces providing equally as good of a service like Khon Kaen. So plenty of options.

There are not plenty of alternative options if you live in CM with your family and have a home here. I have to visit the CM office unless I up sticks and move family elsewhere. And as my step daughter is attending Uni in CM, it is not an option.

As I said before, I resent having to fork out 3000 baht to receive a similar free service as other offices in Thailand. So yes, I am complaining, and will continue to do so (as is my British right).

[northernjohn]

It is not " Shortage of staff " but the shortage of brainpower in the existing staff !

I was afraid the brain dead Thai bashers would show up.

I would like to thank the many who did give their experience in other offices.

Yes I feel that Chiang Mai has the worst situation in the country. Partly as has been mentioned by others because of the amount of foreigners poring in and partly because of the people unwilling to mail in their 90 day. Also partly because Immagration does not go out of their way to announce it.

Moderators please close this. It was intended for information on other offices not bashing or continually crying about the situation here.

For that there is a pinned topic on the Chiang Mai Forum with over 1,000 posts many of them complaining about Chiang Mai and the staff. There are in all fairness some posters that do recognize the staff.

[ubonjoe]

<snipped>

Moderators please close this. It was intended for information on other offices not bashing or continually crying about the situation here.

For that there is a pinned topic on the Chiang Mai Forum with over 1,000 posts many of them complaining about Chiang Mai and the staff. There are in all fairness some posters that do recognize the staff.