Handle with care: Hospital care for foreigners without travel insurance

[sgtsabai]

oops, sorry for that smily thing, I've no idea where it came from. should have read Part 1.

[HerbalEd]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Then have the money available to pay your own way. Why should Thailand ... or anyone else ... have to pay for you?

[Jeffrey346]

A friend of mine died the other day on the airplane going back home for further treatment.

The hospital basically kicked him out, because he ran out of money due to the insurance he had did not cover all treatments and tests the hospital did.

Something here doesn't sound right.. A bill wouldn't be due until treatment was final and he was discharged from the hospital.

If he was critically ill, and it sounds like he was... that hospital is wideopen to a major lawsuit.

[Guest]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Insurance is at the heart of the issue here.

To me a foreigner who has problems getting insurance here is not automatically entitled to free medical treatment.

Your opinion is duly noted ...

And .. you are wrong.

The issue here is actually the care provided Foreigners in the Kingdom who do not have insurance.

Sort of wondering what your problem is ... willing to bet a tidy sum you are not Thai.

[GordonP]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

another free loader! you should not be granted permission to enter Thailand unless you have travel insurance! even when I go to the United States I have "Travel" insurance!

why do tourist feel that they are entitled to anything free from a third world country which is doing everything it can for it's own people! if you can't afford insurance keep your free loading ass home!

"Long term "Travel Insurance" is only available if one has been in the country of issue for at least 180 days out of the last 365. It is possible to purchase it but the small print immediately invalidates it.

[The Deerhunter]

If I'm back in the states (and reinstate Part I have great insurance with both Medicare and insurance from work retirement. One foot out of the states, no Medicare and my insurance from work expired after one month, also depends on Part B. Here I have nothing,nor was I ever eligible for any insurance. I use Bangkok Hospital Udon and while the gov't hospital may be somewhat cheaper, there is still a charge, even for Thai people like my wife. Gov't hospital is an all day wait. My disability from the VA will cover any problem with those disabilities. Other than that I'm on the Republican health plan, if you get sick, die and die quick. At my age if a big problem pops up and I cannot have the lifestyle i am used to, then screw it. I'll just live the best I can, party on and when the party's over they can pop me in the oven.

Yep! That is the way it is but some of us are still in denial over your last sentence. Personally, I intend to live forever, or die trying!!!!!

[jpinx]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Then have the money available to pay your own way. Why should Thailand ... or anyone else ... have to pay for you?

Jeeez!! What is it with the whiners?? No-one is trying to avoid paying - only trying to avoid expensive hospitals

[NancyL]

A friend of mine died the other day on the airplane going back home for further treatment.

The hospital basically kicked him out, because he ran out of money due to the insurance he had did not cover all treatments and tests the hospital did.

Something here doesn't sound right.. A bill wouldn't be due until treatment was final and he was discharged from the hospital.

If he was critically ill, and it sounds like he was... that hospital is wideopen to a major lawsuit.

People don't sue hospitals here in Thailand the way they do in the U.S. And most private hospitals are going to ask for a deposit and payments to be made to keep the bill "current" if they think the insurance isn't going to cover the treatment. It's surprising that the hospital didn't keep his passport until the bill was paid. That's a common tactic. He probably shouldn't have attempted a long-distance flight if his health was so poor. People don't realize that airplane cabin pressure and oxygen levels aren't what they are on the ground.

[stevenl]

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Insurance is at the heart of the issue here.

To me a foreigner who has problems getting insurance here is not automatically entitled to free medical treatment.

Is that your call to make?

It is my call to give my opinion. It is up to none of us, so if that is the criterium, why have this thread at all? Or why have any threads at all.

[Guest]

Two months ago I got a tumor removed at King Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital.

First Class all the way .. put the USA to shame in terms of professionalism, results and PRICE.

I paid for it out of pocket, since I do not believe much in health insurance.

Why?

Because I can do math, and do not pay insurance companies a small fortune to try and screw me out of first class care if / when i need it.







Post edited Off Topic

LK

[stevenl]

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Insurance is at the heart of the issue here.

To me a foreigner who has problems getting insurance here is not automatically entitled to free medical treatment.

Your opinion is duly noted ...

And .. you are wrong.

The issue here is actually the care provided Foreigners in the Kingdom who do not have insurance.

Sort of wondering what your problem is ... willing to bet a tidy sum you are not Thai.

I say 'the issue here is insurance'. You tell me I'm wrong because 'the issue is foreigners who do not have insurance'.

So yes, the insurance is the issue.

And my problem? No problem, just giving an opinion, as you do. The only difference is I'm not accusing anybody of any issues. But your previous post clarifies a lot, it is you who has a problem with insurance companies.

[Guest]

Is that your call to make?

It is my call to give my opinion. It is up to none of us, so if that is the criterium, why have this thread at all? Or why have any threads at all.

Hmmm .. posted this to you before .. let's try it again:

Your opinion is duly noted ...

And .. you are wrong.

The issue here is actually the care provided Foreigners in the Kingdom who do not have insurance.

Sort of wondering what your problem is ... willing to bet a tidy sum you are not Thai.

[madmitch]

A subject that has been done to death so many times on TV appears yet again, and as usual there's nothing new.

Tourists, please buy travel insurance. Expats, please get at least some health insurance cover unless you're too old to qualify or you're rich enough to self-insure. It can save a lot of hassle.

[jpinx]

So much chaff about a topic that never fails to bring out the worst of the pre-judgers. The opening post described very well what the situation is, but most posters didn't bother to read it. The issue is not a search for free health care, but to avoid the expensive hospitals who will pay the biggest kick-back to the ambulance crew who pick you up. There needs to be a tattoo on your forehead saying "Government Hospital Only".

[NancyL]

The article didn't make it clear that the gov't hospitals will provide emergency treatment at no charge (up front), but not "elective" treatment.

I've known three people with limited funds who have had heart attacks and gone to Suan Dok hospital's excellent E/R, where their lives were saved and they were hospitalized. This is a tertiary-level gov't hospital in CM. In every case, the life-threatening condition was treated, they were given medications for blood pressure, cholestrol, heart function, diabetes (conditions which they didn't know they had) and basic testing was done. They were able to arrange a contract to make payments for their bill, about 10,000 baht/month. I think the total bill in each case was between 50,000 - 80,000 baht.

But, in each case the doctors recommended angioplasty and possible installation of stents if blockages were found. In order to do this procedure, the gov't hospital wants 150,000 baht on deposit, up front. This is considered a non-emergency procedure. It would probably prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of life for these three people, but it is not an absolutely necessary procedure for them to continue to live right now. None of these three people can come up with 150,000 baht and its doubtful they ever will. The best they can do is to continue with the medications to improve their heart function and control their BP and diabetes.

[sambum]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

[seedy]

one post hidden - quotes placement makes it very difficult to read. Also Troll / Flaming

[sambum]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Then have the money available to pay your own way. Why should Thailand ... or anyone else ... have to pay for you?

"Then have the money available to pay your own way." Another one who can't read, and is a Republican/Conservative or has a stone for a heart - you would probably abolish the NHS and Medicare if you could, because it sounds like you have a nice fat healthy bank balance! As stated previously, the point is that some older folk on limited incomes can not afford private hospital treatment, but are prepared to pay for treatment at a Government hospital, but it's nice to know in advance how much they are likely to be charged.

By the way, I wonder if you would feel the same way if it was you lying in a hospital bed with a serious illness, and didn't have "the money available to pay your own way"

[emilymat]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

A good question. I'm 74, fit and healthy and have tried to get medical insurance and I can!. The best quote I had was 600 UK pounds per month - a third of my income. Then there were all sorts of exclusions.

So, the only thing I can do is deposit a 'slush fund' of 500,000 baht in my bank and try and forget it.

I don't mind paying for medical treatment, but I do object to the ludicrous prices the private hospitals charge. My mate had a bad leg infection and needed to be operated on etc. When I visited in hospital (in an unnecessary luxurious room) he begged me to check the current bill he was racking up. It worked out at 40,000 baht per night after 4 days at that point. He had adaily injection for example which was billed 10,000 baht a shot!.

He discharged himself and went back to the UK to continue treatment.

I have made arrangements to be taken to the government hospital if I suddenly have an emergency. I don't need a suite of rooms etc, they can put me in a general ward for all I care.

Finally, on all these threads, many posters say the costs in Thailand are competitive etc. That may be so, but us UK citizens have been so indoctrinated to not paying anything since 1948, we have, in a sense, nothing to compare the prices with. I'm not suggesting in the slightest that we should get anything free here, far from it, but some of the hospitals seem to be 5 star hotels with a hospital attached.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

Travel insurance is for travellers, so its OK for tourists but will not cover expats or typically anyone who leaves their home country for more than 3 months .

actually also not true.i get travel insurance when i get the ticket online from a travel agent,like tavelocity,kajak etc. they offer it real easy and cheap right on the last page that says: buy now,when you make the final click,for the ticket, about 1$ a day that will cover up to 5000$ medical emergency and many other things like lost luggage-.however i noticed it is limited to 6 mths. traveltime. used it twice and got the money back alright.

[chiang mai]

The article didn't make it clear that the gov't hospitals will provide emergency treatment at no charge (up front), but not "elective" treatment.

I've known three people with limited funds who have had heart attacks and gone to Suan Dok hospital's excellent E/R, where their lives were saved and they were hospitalized. This is a tertiary-level gov't hospital in CM. In every case, the life-threatening condition was treated, they were given medications for blood pressure, cholestrol, heart function, diabetes (conditions which they didn't know they had) and basic testing was done. They were able to arrange a contract to make payments for their bill, about 10,000 baht/month. I think the total bill in each case was between 50,000 - 80,000 baht.

But, in each case the doctors recommended angioplasty and possible installation of stents if blockages were found. In order to do this procedure, the gov't hospital wants 150,000 baht on deposit, up front. This is considered a non-emergency procedure. It would probably prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of life for these three people, but it is not an absolutely necessary procedure for them to continue to live right now. None of these three people can come up with 150,000 baht and its doubtful they ever will. The best they can do is to continue with the medications to improve their heart function and control their BP and diabetes.

I have read repeatedly that mortality/survival rates between stenting and anit-platlet (Asprin/Plavix) therapy patients are very similar, whilst angioplasty does reduce the risk of restenosis the need for stenting has been way overdone. Additionally, the cost versus benefit of drug eluting stents over bare metal stents plus anti-platlet therapy, cannot be justified by most objective interventionists. The bottom line seems to be that angioplasty using drug eluting stents is a fashionable cash cow to many whilst angioplasty alone will often reduce pain, cost and risk.

[Kabula]

I had a (what I thought) a really good international health insurance but when the day came to try to get them to pay I just got a big fat NO from them, I had payed about 2,500 a year over 5 years so if I had saved the money in a separate account for accidents instead I would have enough for even cancer treatment here in Thailand. Now I have gone with BUPA Thailand and pay only 28,000 Baht a year just in case I would get cancer or have a big accident. For normal treatments I just pay by my self...I regularly eat allergy medicine and back home it would be equal to about 450 Baht for 7 pills (for 1 week consumption), here I just go to a government hospital or a pharmacy and pay 20-30 Baht for the same medicine, but that's for 10 pills.

What was the name of the Insurance Co and was the denial based on an alleged pre-existing condition you disagreed with which is common. Did this happen recently?

[elgordo38]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

another free loader! you should not be granted permission to enter Thailand unless you have travel insurance! even when I go to the United States I have "Travel" insurance!

why do tourist feel that they are entitled to anything free from a third world country which is doing everything it can for it's own people! if you can't afford insurance keep your free loading ass home!

Another poster who can't read

Must be into the suds. The language is a bit strong to someone asking a reasonable question. The private hospitals are there like sharks circling. Once they get you inside the meter really starts to spin. Small items OK lost leaders.

[sambum]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

A good question. I'm 74, fit and healthy and have tried to get medical insurance and I can!. The best quote I had was 600 UK pounds per month - a third of my income. Then there were all sorts of exclusions.

So, the only thing I can do is deposit a 'slush fund' of 500,000 baht in my bank and try and forget it.

I don't mind paying for medical treatment, but I do object to the ludicrous prices the private hospitals charge. My mate had a bad leg infection and needed to be operated on etc. When I visited in hospital (in an unnecessary luxurious room) he begged me to check the current bill he was racking up. It worked out at 40,000 baht per night after 4 days at that point. He had adaily injection for example which was billed 10,000 baht a shot!.

He discharged himself and went back to the UK to continue treatment.

I have made arrangements to be taken to the government hospital if I suddenly have an emergency. I don't need a suite of rooms etc, they can put me in a general ward for all I care.

Finally, on all these threads, many posters say the costs in Thailand are competitive etc. That may be so, but us UK citizens have been so indoctrinated to not paying anything since 1948, we have, in a sense, nothing to compare the prices with. I'm not suggesting in the slightest that we should get anything free here, far from it, but some of the hospitals seem to be 5 star hotels with a hospital attached.

Good post! And I am sure that most of us "older" posters agree with you, and 600 UK pounds a month = 7200 UK pounds a year = 360,000 baht (app) for insurance with restrictions. For most people on a limited budget this is an extortionate sum, and your solution is the best option that I can think of.

Also, your friend did the best thing under the circumstances. In my experience, the Government hospitals are cheaper, but non-emergencies can involve a long wait for treatment - even after you have been admitted. For any serious problem, run for "home" if you are in a position to do so.

P.S. "5 star hotels with a hospital attached" Love it!.

[pchansmorn]

You can get international travel insurance that will cover you for years, or if you live in Thailand you can get hospital care only for less than a thousand a year depending on your age & health conditions. (Thai Life Insurance) carries medical insurance with a small 200-300 dollar rider for death. This will be returned to you after 3 years. And this insurance company will insure you till you are 90 years old, try to find that with another carrier. They will also cover you if you are traveling outside the country, including the USA & Canada. You have no excuse not to have the coverage, and Thailand should not have to give you Free medical, when they can't even take care of there own.

[Liquorice]

It's about time the Thai government adopted a Health Scheme for the long term expats who permanently reside here, just like they do for the Myanmar, Cambodian and Lao workers for Government Hospitals.

Too many foreigners used the NHS in the UK without paying, so the UK have introduced an NHS surcharge (£200) for Visitors and those without permission to permanent residency to provide NHS cover.

A similar Government scheme could be adopted here.

[Jackin1960]

Not as good as the UK here we also house them, feed them, give them limos to there new homes and buy them Christmas presents. So Thailand has a looooong way to go in this mad mad world.

[jpinx]

You can get international travel insurance that will cover you for years, or if you live in Thailand you can get hospital care only for less than a thousand a year depending on your age & health conditions. (Thai Life Insurance) carries medical insurance with a small 200-300 dollar rider for death. This will be returned to you after 3 years. And this insurance company will insure you till you are 90 years old, try to find that with another carrier. They will also cover you if you are traveling outside the country, including the USA & Canada. You have no excuse not to have the coverage, and Thailand should not have to give you Free medical, when they can't even take care of there own.

Can we have a link to that insurance company please?

[superal]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

another free loader! you should not be granted permission to enter Thailand unless you have travel insurance! even when I go to the United States I have "Travel" insurance!

why do tourist feel that they are entitled to anything free from a third world country which is doing everything it can for it's own people! if you can't afford insurance keep your free loading ass home!

"Long term "Travel Insurance" is only available if one has been in the country of issue for at least 180 days out of the last 365. It is possible to purchase it but the small print immediately invalidates it.

Not in my Ts&Cs for 5 months insurance on a regular basis and claims were met without issues on 2 recent occasions

[somchaismith]

Good advice.