British man found dead on Koh Tao

[Basil B]

People who organise these events have a "duty of care"...

Given the event, and drink was freely available, I certainty feel the organisers should be held accountable...

• did they conduct a risk assessment?
• if there was barbed wire to prevent revealers climbing up on top of the DJ hut, who checked it as being fit for purpose?
• when was it last checked?
• was the victim the only person "tombstoning into the pool"?
• what actions were taken by the management to stop it?
• was the DJ or other members of staff encouraging it?

Duty of care is a lovely concept and in any civilised country it's top of the agenda when organising events. However we're talking about Thailand. Where in Thailand have you ever been where duty of care and/or safety have been of paramount importance?

You only have to stroll through any city's streets to see unfenced gaping holes in the pavements leading directly to a sewer, non-existent(or at least unenforced) traffic safety regulations, rusty dilapidated fairground rides, masses of low-hanging electric cables along many streets, deadly beaches with vicious undertows with no warning flags(as in Rayong where countless kids get sucked under to their deaths)... I could go on and on...

No Thailand is not yet such a civilised country that recognisesand implements duty of care. On top of that we're talking about Kho Tao, an island that condones murders and protects it's well-heeled killers. What do they care about duty of care?

If the money's rolling in, then everything's tickety-boo on that crap-hole. Sad but true.

Fact is the only way to make people aware is to start prosecuting those responsible... in most instances the laws are there but not observed and if not the law on such matter need changing.

[asiamaster]

obviously another murder and another cover up

Obvious? No.... Possible? Yes!

NOBODY saw him jump

NOBODY heard anything

His buddies can (and will I suppose) confirm he wanted to have a few more drinks before going home.........maybe he had his eyes on some chick. There must be CCTV footage of his last whereabouts, unfortunately I am afraid these CCTV footages will not be investigated as the RTP rules out foul play and calls it an "accident". They do say however from CCTV footage he appears to be very drunk. What CCTV footage are they talking about? From the Sunset Bar? From another bar? From an hotel? Of course I am sure he was drunk, but that goes for 95% of all people on Koh Tao partying through the night. Maybe he had some drugs too, as lots of people take there.

More questions......

• Was he in the Sunset Bar around closing time which is 2am according to their own FB site?
• When did the last person leave the Sunset Bar?
• Can anybody easily enter the Sunset bar after they close?
• Does the Sunset Bar switch off their CCTV system?
• Is it possible he got involved in some fight, got a beating was hit with some object, passed out and was dumped in that pool?
• How does the RTP know he jumped of that DJ booth at the Sunset Bar?
• How does the RTP conclude the scratches in his face were from the barbed wire on the roof of that same booth?

Or did he walk home, let's say early in the morning, felt the urgent need to take a dive into a pool, therefore he entered the closed Sunset Bar, climbed on that DJ boot which has a springbrett next to it, cut his face open, still dived all by himself, face down to hit the shallow part of the pool bottom?

Can his sister which some people doubt is for real (I am not one of those but i may be wrong) shine some light on this?

• Has there been contact with his buddies?
• What do they say?
• Where were they drinking?
• When did they go home?
• Did they leave him by himself?
• In what state was he in?
• Was he completely gone?
• Does he have a history of doing crazy things like that when he is totally drunk?

How about going down to Surat Thani yourself (where the investigations, autopsy and further interviews are currently being done) and ask these questions. And the RTP has not claimed they know all you are saying they know. They just suspected. And mind you they will be far more tight lipped themselves (including the friends and family family members) this time.

And quite rightfully so...

[bannork]

People who organise these events have a "duty of care"...

Given the event, and drink was freely available, I certainty feel the organisers should be held accountable...

• did they conduct a risk assessment?
• if there was barbed wire to prevent revealers climbing up on top of the DJ hut, who checked it as being fit for purpose?
• when was it last checked?
• was the victim the only person "tombstoning into the pool"?
• what actions were taken by the management to stop it?
• was the DJ or other members of staff encouraging it?

Duty of care is a lovely concept and in any civilised country it's top of the agenda when organising events. However we're talking about Thailand. Where in Thailand have you ever been where duty of care and/or safety have been of paramount importance?

You only have to stroll through any city's streets to see unfenced gaping holes in the pavements leading directly to a sewer, non-existent(or at least unenforced) traffic safety regulations, rusty dilapidated fairground rides, masses of low-hanging electric cables along many streets, deadly beaches with vicious undertows with no warning flags(as in Rayong where countless kids get sucked under to their deaths)... I could go on and on...

No Thailand is not yet such a civilised country that recognisesand implements duty of care. On top of that we're talking about Kho Tao, an island that condones murders and protects it's well-heeled killers. What do they care about duty of care?

If the money's rolling in, then everything's tickety-boo on that crap-hole. Sad but true.

Thailand is a developing country income-wise, you can't expect the infrastructure to be up to Western standards, if it is one day, then the prices will be too. Countless kids die in Rayong really? Regarding safety overall, how many farangs have been electrocuted by electric cables, fallen down unforeseen potholes?

Thailand has millions of visitors a year, the number who die is minimal.

[balo]

Has anyone tried to contact Maria Miller on her genuine facebook page just to verify that she is the real poster on Thaivisa ?

I would not be surprised if she don't know anything about this thread. .

Edited January 10, 2016 by balo

[DennisF]

A guy lost his life.

Accidental or not, time will reveal.

I cannot understand why every thread resorts to a personal pi55ing contest between Thai haters and apologists regardless of the OP topic.

Would be great to have a thread that just shows sympathy and concern.

My thoughts are with the family.

[asiamaster]

Has anyone tried to contact Maria Miller on her genuine facebook page just to verify that she is the real poster on Thaivisa ?

I would not be surprised if she don't know anything about this thread. .

I would think that the "whole world" is trying to contact the family members....

All she has done on her facebook page (15 hrs ago) is post a picture of herself and her brothers -in memoriam

Edited January 10, 2016 by asiamaster

[Krenjai]

How about going down to Surat Thani yourself (where the investigations, autopsy and further interviews are currently being done) and ask these questions. And the RTP has not claimed they know all you are saying they know. They just suspected. And mind you they will be far more tight lipped themselves (including the friends and family family members) this time.

And quite rightfully so...

If I could get involved in the investigations, autopsy and further interviews I would go down there, unfortunately the RTP won't allow this, do they? Same as the Scotland Yard observers who only were allowed to be observers, not allowed to do their own investigations, just having to accept whatever BS the RTP decided to feed them. Not a very bright idea, as you have seen by the statement made by the Millers regarding the B2's conviction and justice is being served. Instead of being tight lipped and accepting the RTP fairy-tales I encourage everybody that knows something, saw something, heard something to speak up and continue to speak up!

[SunsetT]

Even though Im deeply suspicious as the murderers and police on Koh Tao must now think they are fireproof, I must admit that accidental death as claimed is feasible. Believe me, after seeing the photo, the DJ booth roof in the photo would be crying out for a tombstone to someone full of youthful exhuberance and pumped up on drink and drugs after a great night out. I know because I did something equally stupid when just 21yrs old in Barbados. After a great night out with my 'shipmates' celebrating sailing the Atlantic and high on my 1st visit to the Tropics + excess rum + excess grass, in pure exhuberance after swimming back to the yacht, I started to climb the 90' main mast with the intention of diving off the top spreaders into the warm and inviting Caribbean sea. The swaying mast led me stop on the lower spreaders and I can still clearly remember becoming acutely aware of the danger of hitting the deck if I miss-timed my dive with the sway. After what seemed like an eternity of nervous hesitation with friends trying to dissuade me from below, I did eventually jump, not dive, from the lower spreaders, and survived unscathed successfully clearing the side of the yacht.

I think the clear temptation of tombstoning from that roof is why barbed wire was there, (if it was/is) and I bet that it is/was well known on the island for young farangs tombstoning and among young visitors who stay a while on Koh Tao. On the other hand, this knowledge by locals, would make it ideal as an alibi for a murder if indeed one were needed.

Don't forget nobody saw him on that roof. Nobody saw him jump. Might very well be - but it is not fact, it is just a story told by RTP. Remember the stories they came up with after the bludgeoning of Hanna and David?

Don't forget nobody has stepped forward yet to say that they saw him on that roof...

I agree 100% as I said above, it's feasibility makes it a perfect cover story (not alibi) for a murder involving head injuries.

Edited January 10, 2016 by SunsetT

[Isitjustme]

People who organise these events have a "duty of care"...

Given the event, and drink was freely available, I certainty feel the organisers should be held accountable...

• did they conduct a risk assessment?
• if there was barbed wire to prevent revealers climbing up on top of the DJ hut, who checked it as being fit for purpose?
• when was it last checked?
• was the victim the only person "tombstoning into the pool"?
• what actions were taken by the management to stop it?
• was the DJ or other members of staff encouraging it?

Duty of care is a lovely concept and in any civilised country it's top of the agenda when organising events. However we're talking about Thailand. Where in Thailand have you ever been where duty of care and/or safety have been of paramount importance?

You only have to stroll through any city's streets to see unfenced gaping holes in the pavements leading directly to a sewer, non-existent(or at least unenforced) traffic safety regulations, rusty dilapidated fairground rides, masses of low-hanging electric cables along many streets, deadly beaches with vicious undertows with no warning flags(as in Rayong where countless kids get sucked under to their deaths)... I could go on and on...

No Thailand is not yet such a civilised country that recognisesand implements duty of care. On top of that we're talking about Kho Tao, an island that condones murders and protects it's well-heeled killers. What do they care about duty of care?

If the money's rolling in, then everything's tickety-boo on that crap-hole. Sad but true.

Thailand is a developing country income-wise, you can't expect the infrastructure to be up to Western standards, if it is one day, then the prices will be too. Countless kids die in Rayong really? Regarding safety overall, how many farangs have been electrocuted by electric cables, fallen down unforeseen potholes?

Thailand has millions of visitors a year, the number who die is minimal.

This doesn't apply just to farangs. Their own kids suffer too. Safety applies to everyone.

As for Rayong...yes really.

I was there when one young boy drowned and i met other parents who had lost their kids there. Try telling them it's ok the number who die is minimal.

I hazard a guess you're not a parent. Safety becomes paramount when you look after children.

Dangerous riptide, no warning flags, locals don't tell you until it's too late. Happens every year.

http://www.khonkaen.ws/mae-ramphueng-beach-mystery-deaths

[IslandLover]

SunsetT, on 10 Jan 2016 - 06:12, said:SunsetT, on 10 Jan 2016 - 06:12, said:

maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 20:34, said:maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 20:34, said:

Mises, on 09 Jan 2016 - 19:24, said:Mises, on 09 Jan 2016 - 19:24, said:

maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 18:12, said:maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 18:12, said:

maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 17:12, said:

This is my little brother luke that you're all talking about, an amazing brother, uncle, son and friend to so so many. Yes, he was a joker and yes he lived life to the full. . However, this wasn't an accident and believe me, I really wish it was. There are so many inconsistencies it's unbelievable. The police are trying to cover up so many things. First off, he wasn't even found in the complex where he was staying. There was no ccTV at the sunset bar it was conveniently not switched on or it was wiped. If he wasn't found until the next morning where the hell was everyone when this "accident" happened? How come no one heard or saw anything? Where the hell did his bruises come from? Especially the ones found on his arms. . We will get justice for you baby brother, I promise I will do whatever I can. Love you millions my darling baby brother. Xxxxx

If this is genuine please can you put the same on your Facebook page

I cant put the above on fb as some family members arent taking it so well. We are getting in contact with richard head as advised. Waiting for police report due on monday. Any other useful info then please let me know via email. <<<<Email removed>>>>

....So very very sorry Maria for your tragic loss.

islandlover I suggest u PM Maria on Facebook.........Go through him Maria, he was and still is supporting justice for the B2 all the way. Others contacting you on here may not be so trustworthy.

Maria has been contacted. She is genuine. The family needs all the help they can get right now. BTW IslandLover is female Thank you for vouching for me though.

Edited January 10, 2016 by IslandLover

[2fishin2]

RIP young man, you were taken way to early.

Last thread 177 pages before it finally got shut down. I wonder how many this one will be.

[IslandLover]

balo, on 10 Jan 2016 - 15:34, said:

Has anyone tried to contact Maria Miller on her genuine facebook page just to verify that she is the real poster on Thaivisa ?

I would not be surprised if she don't know anything about this thread. .

Balo, Maria Miller is genuine and she has been contacted.

[glenmohr]

I'll bet they'll call it a suicide unless of course they find cigarette butts on the scene.

What an idiotic insensitive thing to say. Someone has died and you try to make jokes??

Every person has their own variation on humour.

For example you may think it very funny that 2 Burmese have been fitted out for a crime they did not commit, but most of us here do not think it at all funny.

[metisdead]

A post replying to previously removed nonsense posts has now been removed.

[Patsycat]

Maria,

My condolences to you and your family and Friends.

[SiSePuede419]

"Dangerous riptide, no warning flags, locals don't tell you until it's too late. Happens every year."

Swimming pools are more dangerous than the ocean.

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs on Earth.

Diving into a swimming pool is stupid.

Alcohol + Swimming Pool + Stupidity = Death.

Any questions?

[Isitjustme]

"Dangerous riptide, no warning flags, locals don't tell you until it's too late. Happens every year."

Swimming pools are more dangerous than the ocean.

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs on Earth.

Diving into a swimming pool is stupid.

Alcohol + Swimming Pool + Stupidity = Death.

Any questions?

"Swimming pools are more dangerous than the ocean" - What a ridiculous statement!

Yeah you're right,I guess, swimming pools have really violent riptides and undertows.

And I must admit they never display warning flags.

Methinks excess alcohol mixed with stupidity might be the danger not the pool, as it can be wherever you are:diving,driving,mowing the lawn, whatever.

A dangerous sea will take you stone cold sober if you're unaware of it's dangers, especially a young child or a weak swimmer.

[evadgib]

The cause of the death of a British backpacker who died on holiday in Thailand was drowning, local police have said.

Luke Miller, from the Isle of Wight, was found dead in a hotel swimming pool on the island of Koh Tao on Friday.

Col Napa Senatip of Koh Tao police station said the cause was determined following a post-mortem examination by forensics officers.

He added: "According to our investigation, this is not a murder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35276492

Edited January 10, 2016 by evadgib

[Mooner]

Not there at 5.30 and found around 7.20. Surprised there are no witnesses so early in the morning.

Peak security and cleaner times.

[spidermike007]

Krenjai, on 09 Jan 2016 - 18:34, said:

maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 18:12, said:

This is my little brother luke that you're all talking about, an amazing brother, uncle, son and friend to so so many. Yes, he was a joker and yes he lived life to the full. . However, this wasn't an accident and believe me, I really wish it was. There are so many inconsistencies it's unbelievable. The police are trying to cover up so many things. First off, he wasn't even found in the complex where he was staying. There was no ccTV at the sunset bar it was conveniently not switched on or it was wiped. If he wasn't found until the next morning where the hell was everyone when this "accident" happened? How come no one heard or saw anything? Where the hell did his bruises come from? Especially the ones found on his arms. . We will get justice for you baby brother, I promise I will do whatever I can. Love you millions my darling baby brother. Xxxxx

First of all my deep condolences........and oh my God, here we go again, another murder in Koh Tao!?

Especially as Luke was last seen alive in the AC bar at 1:00am by the group of friends he was with. I'm told they them left him to go to bed and he stayed behind in the bar for a quiet drink alone.

WHAT???? Oh no! I feel sick reading this.............

And what is the moral to this story? Never visit the AC Bar without an armed bodyguard or two.

[TheLobster]

Death Island strikes again

Can someone put together a comprehensive timeline of all of the foreigner's deaths just on Koh Tao? You would think that for a small island the death of a visitor would be a very rare occasion, but here's another one.

Based on what. With (tens of) thousands of active people at any time seems to me the reported death rate is very low. Would expect several a year from accidents, heart attacks, illness, etc

I would laugh, except it isn't funny.

'You would think that for a small island the death of a visitor would be a very rare occasion, but here's another one.' True, not just that but perfectly healthy and young people are dying, ...... regularly.

[Khun Han]

The cause of the death of a British backpacker who died on holiday in Thailand was drowning, local police have said.

Luke Miller, from the Isle of Wight, was found dead in a hotel swimming pool on the island of Koh Tao on Friday.

Col Napa Senatip of Koh Tao police station said the cause was determined following a post-mortem examination by forensics officers.

He added: "According to our investigation, this is not a murder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35276492

This is now starting to look a little bit suspicious.

[flattop]

It seems to me that other Mafia bosses in Thailand with interests in the bigger tourist areas must be getting pretty pissed off with this jumped up little island Koh Tao which if it carries on like this is going to hit their profits from tourism big time. If the Thai judiciary and the Thai government will not do anything about it then I suspect the Thai 'mob' will, and If I were Mon or one of the family, I would be watching my back very very closely. It would not surprise me if Mon and Nomsod just 'disappeared' one day.

[SOTIRIOS]

....case closed.....

...don't you dare say anything that will hurt our reputation...........and revenue.......

...@#$%^&*(......

[Krenjai]

OK, now the RTP claims he drowned............ does this mean:

• They have abandoned their theory he jumped of that booth or do they still believe that is what happened as well (besides drowning as a result)?
• They have abandoned their believe the cuts he had in his face came from the barbed wire on the roof of that booth?

This is going to be another crazy cocktail of twisted events...........the RTP claims and I quote:

"Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning."

• Ok, so they do have CCTV, so what happened then when the bar closed?
• Did he come back to perform his dive?
• Did they close down their CCTV after closing time?

The RTP goes on and I quote:

"the security guards who regularly searched the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 5:30 local time. "

• So if this small pool was searched by security guards at 05.30am it means he must have performed the dive after 05.30am?
• The fact they searched the pool at night confirms they have security at the place, so why did they not hear anything?

I have had it, I am now officially in the camp of the people who strongly lean towards a murder...........and I wish I was not.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Krenjai

[TheLobster]

Why is this news? People die everywhere - young, old, any nationality. Drugs, alcohol, car accidents, natural causes.

When a poster can produce meaningful data, such as a statistic that indicates a Brit is ten times more likely to die on Koh Tao than on the Thai mainland, I might pay attention. So far, all I see in this thread are fevered imaginations and well-meant condolences for someone not even known to the poster.

I'm Australian, 72. If I die in Chiang Mai, I don't expect headlines.

You don't seem to be up to speed with current issues in Thailand.

How about this, two young people with the surname Miller from the UK die on Koh Tao within a year or so? I'm not a statistician but I'd think that the odds are big.

Tourism is massive in Thailand so where would you expect to get statistics on the number of deaths to compare say 'Koh Tao and the mainland'?

[bander]

This is my little brother luke that you're all talking about, an amazing brother, uncle, son and friend to so so many. Yes, he was a joker and yes he lived life to the full. . However, this wasn't an accident and believe me, I really wish it was. There are so many inconsistencies it's unbelievable. The police are trying to cover up so many things. First off, he wasn't even found in the complex where he was staying. There was no ccTV at the sunset bar it was conveniently not switched on or it was wiped. If he wasn't found until the next morning where the hell was everyone when this "accident" happened? How come no one heard or saw anything? Where the hell did his bruises come from? Especially the ones found on his arms. . We will get justice for you baby brother, I promise I will do whatever I can. Love you millions my darling baby brother. Xxxxx

First of all my deep condolences........and oh my God, here we go again, another murder in Koh Tao!?

Deep condolences Maria, now that we know the truth maybe the TV armchair detectives is allowed to do some investigation.

Edited January 10, 2016 by bander

[bander]

....case closed.....

...don't you dare say anything that will hurt our reputation...........and revenue.......

...@#$%^&*(......

Case closed,

Thais don't kill tourists at Koh Tao, Burmese does, so if someone is guilty it have to be the migrant workers...again.

[bander]

It seems to me that other Mafia bosses in Thailand with interests in the bigger tourist areas must be getting pretty pissed off with this jumped up little island Koh Tao which if it carries on like this is going to hit their profits from tourism big time. If the Thai judiciary and the Thai government will not do anything about it then I suspect the Thai 'mob' will, and If I were Mon or one of the family, I would be watching my back very very closely. It would not surprise me if Mon and Nomsod just 'disappeared' one day.

Wishful thinking, but I think the killings would stop if Mon and Nomsod "disappeared"

[smedly]

After all that is said and done, the lesson learned here is do not go there while the best advice warns us: Do not go to Koh Tao Island as there has to be something sinister going on there with so many people suspiciously dying on a popular vacation island.

Obviously the police can not be held accountable for everyone and all that goes on around the island while they really do not care.

If they do then they sure are putting on a good face while spinning plausible tales and their final conclusions that conveniently sweep the matters under the rug.

Meantime for those visiting the island it is more than apparent the island is a risky place to be.

At this point it is best to simply pick another island as they seem to be safer ...that is if you keep your wits about you including not going over board on the alcohol and the drugs and partying nearly 24 hours a day and drink till you drop.

I have a niece coming to visit Thailand starting on the 16th of Jan / 2016 ( in 6 more days ) and I will be telling her the facts of life, relevant to traveling around parts of Thailand and other countries in South East Asia and having a good time without all the alcohol and drugs and or joining in with the wild bunch, party hardy types that greatly increases your chances of something bad happening or worse yet something tragic happening.

How can you keep them out of harms way other than to forewarn them to be on guard at all times and do not party hardy as if you are back in your home country even if that good advice curbs a persons enthusiasm to join in with all the other people doing the Party Hardy routine

I remember when I first came to Thailand at the young age of 21, back when I was a drinker and drug consumer myself, I remember doing a number of things considered very risky while there was no one to warn me of all the little details and things to be aware of and avoid and dangerous possibilities other than my parents telling me: Be careful son.

I believe that most of the travelers that died would still be alive if they had not thrown caution to the wind and jumped right in with both feet emulating what ever one else was doing and consume a lot of alcohol and or drugs and just go with the flow ..so to speak.

It seems the young man was doing exactly what he long desired before it all abruptly ended.

RIP

Yes I agree with what you are saying everyone should take common sense caution when they travel.

I also agree with the fact that some people when getting drunk or high do things that they would never do in their home countries.

But let's also not forget that Thai people connected to powerful figures in places like a small island, where everything is controlled including the Police, have the tendency sometimes to feel invincible and can take things to the next level, particularly if they are on Yaba.

Also, it is well known that the attitude of Thai people towards foreigners is more tolerant rather than friendly (once you see through the smiles) because of money, really. I think they see us as a necessary evil. If we could just send the money without attending it would be wonderful. If say a foreigner would get drunk and would insult a Thai in these places, the outcome would be uncertain. It could result in murder really. And for the right amount it could be covered up.

But we should not try to automatically put the blame on the victim (this is classic Thai specialty, starting from comments such as "Women should not wear bikinis unless they are ugly")

This case should be thoroughly investigated, unfortunately I'm not sure there is enough "competence" or "will" to do so.

very good points and also worth noting that unlike places like Pattaya were farangs tend to socialise in their own establishments and Thais in theirs, they are more or less generally kept apart and would be dangerous for a farang to venture into their domain unless in the company of influential Thais, this is not the case on a small island such as Koh Tao, Thais and farangs are socialising/mixing in the same places, it is obvious to me how this could be troublesome in many ways especially were drink and women are also involved, IMO it could easily become a dangerous mix of ego and jealousy the results of which are very obvious to me