cumgranosalum Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I see there is a report that the authorities are looking into banning minivans for long distance travel. http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/03/09/road-officials-consider-banning-commuter-vans-long-distance-services This to me seems a typically ill-thought out idea and potential dictum . To even consider this seems to show that person or persons involved have not the slightest idea about public transport or road safety. why waste public funds on such a ridiculous idea? there are a host of safety concerns about both buses and minivans/minibuses but anyone with a modicum of common sense should be able to see that this is not a potential solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes the first step is to implement a high level of driving efficiency by way of a modern driving test as opposed to the Micky mouse one currently in use. Secondly the introduction of tachograph and speed limits on mini vans and heavy goods vehicles,interprovincial buses and other vehicles will dramatically reduce the number of deaths and accidents. Add to all of the above a stringent annual vehicle test MOT and this would be a start. Until then as we see on a daily basis the carnage will continue irrespective of anything they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I don’t advocate the ban since I think people should be free to choose how they die. But it won’t affect me much since I gave up on the vans after my 2nd trip. Why 2? The first was so white knuckle scary, I thought it had to be a fluke. But then the second trip had me changing my underwear as soon as I got home. There won’t be a 3rd. Even when I’m not riding in them, having a dozen or more riding up my bumper on the Motorway on a typical trip to Pattaya reminds me they’re a hazard to more than just their passengers. I wouldn’t miss them. But I think GPS and inertial monitoring and revoking some drivers’ licenses and van company operating permits would be a better way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes the first step is to implement a high level of driving efficiency by way of a modern driving test as opposed to the Micky mouse one currently in use. Secondly the introduction of tachograph and speed limits on mini vans and heavy goods vehicles,interprovincial buses and other vehicles will dramatically reduce the number of deaths and accidents. Add to all of the above a stringent annual vehicle test MOT and this would be a start. Until then as we see on a daily basis the carnage will continue irrespective of anything they do. Tachograph and training - yes - that would help...it seems that most minivan drivers think that the faster they drive the quicker they get there. Firstly this isn't true and secondly most passengers are content just to get there at all......finally they aren't impressed by macho displays of reckless driving. The vehicles themselves are not goos either as is everything else about the road transport system in Thailand - but just banning one kind of bus only goes to show how ignorant some people in high places are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The problem runs really deep though, they could introduce all of that and then the vehicle checks could be "passed" for a fee, Tachos could be "modified" for a fee and generally anything altered for money.....it runs too deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 The problem runs really deep though, they could introduce all of that and then the vehicle checks could be "passed" for a fee, Tachos could be "modified" for a fee and generally anything altered for money.....it runs too deep nforcement is always a problem in Thailand not helped by widespread corruption and graft....i could see a system whereby drivers simply drove3 from one legal stop to another as separate journeys so officially no "long-distances" would be covered. tschos are pretty incorruptable but they have to be started and then checked so they are only ads good as the enforcement backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Usual story (sadly), because you can have all the tests, regs and rules you want, and Tacho's are a great invention, but the main aspect is missing, actual enforcement. Which applies to many things not just motoring. Until the message gets across, or is allowed to get across that there are real consequences to peoples actions, it will never change. IF they just enforced the laws they have, patrolled the Motorways/Highways and had real consequences and not mickey mouse 200 baht fines it would be a start. Heavy penalties and real enforcement is what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrenn Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Minivan drivers are the worst. Followed by pickups then trucks then buses then taxis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Minivan drivers are the worst. Followed by pickups then trucks then buses then taxis. I see....and how does this outburst relate to the OP?...or were you "just saying"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big carl Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes the first step is to implement a high level of driving efficiency by way of a modern driving test as opposed to the Micky mouse one currently in use. Secondly the introduction of tachograph and speed limits on mini vans and heavy goods vehicles,interprovincial buses and other vehicles will dramatically reduce the number of deaths and accidents. Add to all of the above a stringent annual vehicle test MOT and this would be a start. Until then as we see on a daily basis the carnage will continue irrespective of anything they do. Tachograph and training - yes - that would help...it seems that most minivan drivers think that the faster they drive the quicker they get there. Firstly this isn't true and secondly most passengers are content just to get there at all......finally they aren't impressed by macho displays of reckless driving. The vehicles themselves are not goos either as is everything else about the road transport system in Thailand - but just banning one kind of bus only goes to show how ignorant some people in high places are. If my memory serves me right they are banning double deck bus's in 2018. I could be wrong as that was a few weeks back I saw the headlines. did not take time to read the whole article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes the first step is to implement a high level of driving efficiency by way of a modern driving test as opposed to the Micky mouse one currently in use. Secondly the introduction of tachograph and speed limits on mini vans and heavy goods vehicles,interprovincial buses and other vehicles will dramatically reduce the number of deaths and accidents. Add to all of the above a stringent annual vehicle test MOT and this would be a start. Until then as we see on a daily basis the carnage will continue irrespective of anything they do. Tachograph and training - yes - that would help...it seems that most minivan drivers think that the faster they drive the quicker they get there. Firstly this isn't true and secondly most passengers are content just to get there at all......finally they aren't impressed by macho displays of reckless driving. The vehicles themselves are not goos either as is everything else about the road transport system in Thailand - but just banning one kind of bus only goes to show how ignorant some people in high places are. If my memory serves me right they are banning double deck bus's in 2018. I could be wrong as that was a few weeks back I saw the headlines. did not take time to read the whole article. All this is symptomatic of knee-jerk reactions and nape of the neck decisions made by people who are totally unqualified to make them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Usual story (sadly), because you can have all the tests, regs and rules you want, and Tacho's are a great invention, but the main aspect is missing, actual enforcement. Which applies to many things not just motoring. Until the message gets across, or is allowed to get across that there are real consequences to peoples actions, it will never change. IF they just enforced the laws they have, patrolled the Motorways/Highways and had real consequences and not mickey mouse 200 baht fines it would be a start. Heavy penalties and real enforcement is what is needed. But Id add not going as stupidly far as the UK for example where regulation has gone way out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Will not happen as too many Thai men make a living driving such vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmaxdan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Surly you don't need to go on a long trip to have an accident? One of the first times I came to Thailand I stayed at Karon beach, Phuket. The morning we left the hotel for the airport, the driver of the minivan drove to the airport like a man possessed. It felt like we did the trip in about 15 minutes, and for anyone who is familiar with this journey will know that is not really possible. I honestly thought that my friend who I was with was going to rip the drivers head off when we arrived. He was not happy. And to this day, I will not set foot in a minivan unless I know who the driver is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Minivan drivers are the worst. Followed by pickups then trucks then buses then taxis. where do you and motorcycle drivers appear in you list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Won't bother me if they do - I wouldn't ride in one if you paid me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 it was only a few years ago they stopped all the big buses from rayong/sattahip to bangkok, and replaced them with flying coffins. its not the long journeys that are dangerous, its the drivers, swopping driver every 4 or 5 hours like they used to on buses in london, would go a long way to help. as would a help phone number permently displayed in the coffins, to phone through a complaint on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheron Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Won't bother me if they do - I wouldn't ride in one if you paid me. Yes because your "thaified logic" dictates that if you aren't riding one you can't actually die from one hitting your own car or bike... riiiiiight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Well , it would save lifes because the roads and the drivers will not get any better. The big VIP buses or trains is a better option if you want to live another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Won't bother me if they do - I wouldn't ride in one if you paid me. Yes because your "thaified logic" dictates that if you aren't riding one you can't actually die from one hitting your own car or bike... riiiiiight? Actually, I do most of my long distance travel by train or plane. I know the minivan drivers are bad, but that would be one hell of an accident if they hit either of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 banning minivans for long distance travel. Have used in the past, most are max of 9 seats........ so the options then would be City to City = maybe changing to 4 or 5 'local' mini vans for the long distance travel ? most of these are 15 seats, the odd time I have used the local Mini vans it is always how fast to get there.. Do know the local Village mini van drivers are on duty around 15 hours.!! would you want to go with someone that drives for 8 hours with 2 or 3 stops on route, or get in a local van where the driver has been working for 12 - 14 hours already ? on the other hand 2 drivers on the VIP 31 seat double deck tour bus for a 10 hour trip could be better. of course there is the Train, takes even longer and could fall off the rails.. Not every place in Thailand has a Airport, or a Train Station. so if you have not, or do not wish to use a car the only option is Bus or Mini van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Well , it would save lifes because the roads and the drivers will not get any better. The big VIP buses or trains is a better option if you want to live another day. the big VIP buses are death traps.....and there are moves to regulate them. as they are so badly constructed, they all need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 the big VIP buses are death traps.....and there are moves to regulate them. as they are so badly constructed, they all need to be replaced. A lot of those big buses are made by Mercedes which is not known for badly constructed vehicles...quite the opposite. They are constructed just fine, but it's the driver and preventive maintenance that is all to many times lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 the big VIP buses are death traps.....and there are moves to regulate them. as they are so badly constructed, they all need to be replaced. A lot of those big buses are made by Mercedes which is not known for badly constructed vehicles...quite the opposite. They are constructed just fine, but it's the driver and preventive maintenance that is all to many times lacking. Sorry to say but you are TOTALLY misinformed about that. These buses are mostly hand-built in garages around Thailand - they are constructed largely of timber and fibreglass bodywork based on a (usually) secondhand ladder chassis - the seats etc are not sufficiently anchored or even positioned. They also have serious CoG problems and there is no roll protection to speak off or impact absorption built in. You seem to have seen "Mercedes" logos on the front of these vehicles and taken for granted a- that the whole vehicle was built by them and b - that they have any Mercedes parts at all. You appear to have based your assumptions on a badge. Unfortunately if they actually DO refer genuinely to having Mercedes parts (and they often don't) they are referring to the ladder chassis (possibly) and the engine. Although there are some major operations building these, if you keep your eyes open, you'll see some of the smaller places involved in manufacture or repair of these, you will see quite clearly that the standard of bodywork is about the same as the average UK trailer-caravan.....quite horrific. PS - there are companies now using imported European buses - notably Scania - you will also noti=ce that none of these are the bizarre "double-decker design so popular with Thai coach builders - and so dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 You seem to have seen "Mercedes" logos on the front of these vehicles and taken for granted a- that the whole vehicle was built by them and b - that they have any Mercedes parts at all. You appear to have based your assumptions on a badge. I thought the Mercedes badge was kind of like an amulet to protect the bus from all dangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 You seem to have seen "Mercedes" logos on the front of these vehicles and taken for granted a- that the whole vehicle was built by them and b - that they have any Mercedes parts at all. You appear to have based your assumptions on a badge. I thought the Mercedes badge was kind of like an amulet to protect the bus from all dangers? Just as likely as any direct connection to the company itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 What often happens is a new Mercedes chassis (engine, frame, braking system, A/C, etc) is bought...and these chassis are made right here in Thailand....probably once or twice a month I see such a chassis being driven down the highway between Bangkok and Nakhorn Pathom...no doubt being delivered from the chassis factory to another factory to be outfitted with the coach, seats, fancy paint job, etc. It's quite a site to see as usually the chair the chassis driver is setting in is a lounge chair like shown below because as mentioned the seats will be installed at the next factory specializing in completing buses to the design of the buyer. And of course other Thailand companies no doubt build chassis also. Take a look at the chassis video at this below Mercedes Benz Thailand website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Pib - if you read my post, you'll see that is what I said.....you obviously have done a bit of Googling. Merc sell chassis to Thai coach-builders and have little or no say as to what goes on top. You seem to have missed out on the tilt-test scandal - I think it was sometime last year - but again you can search TV or google for that. The problem being that many of these coaches were failing the CoG test as specified by the government - enforcement as ever was non-existant. Scania sell a complete intercity bus which will probably conform to the much more stringent EU regulations. The fact remains that their is little or no regulation enforcement on what type of body is built onto these chassis and little care taken as to how they behave in any incident, whether it be top heavy on corners or virtually no passenger protection if/when the coach leaves the road or has a collision. It is easy to understand the a coach tour company when confronted with the high price of the Scania or Merc chassis are then going to show scant concern for the vehicles' safety performance when their main concern is installation of karaoke, cinema, velour curtains and tassels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baneko Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Minivan drivers are the worst. Followed by pickups then trucks then buses then taxis. Then cars and motorbikes. Have we missed anyone? ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Minivan drivers are the worst. Followed by pickups then trucks then buses then taxis. Then cars and motorbikes. Have we missed anyone? ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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