US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access

[JDGRUEN]

It's only for children that have been well screened over a long period time by specialists. It's not child abuse. It's a medical decision. But that really is a a separate medical ethics issue. It's just an example of the range of options available for people in these more enlightened times. Ignoring the right wing insanity.

I have seen photos of these type of children and they looked pretty damned miserable. I remember one where these two lesbians pushed shoved - 10-12 year old into become a girl ... The look on the child's face was one of crying out for relief from this insane torture ... No child should be put into such treatment until age 18 and then given treatment for the mental disorder that has been instilled into this child's mind by over the top politico genderist

[Dagnabbit]

It's only for children that have been well screened over a long period time by specialists. It's not child abuse. It's a medical decision. But that really is a a separate medical ethics issue. It's just an example of the range of options available for people in these more enlightened times. Ignoring the right wing insanity.

I have seen photos of these type of children and they looked pretty damned miserable. I remember one where these two lesbians pushed shoved - 10-12 year old into become a girl ... The look on the child's face was one of crying out for relief from this insane torture ... No child should be put into such treatment until age 18 and then given treatment for the mental disorder that has been instilled into this child's mind by over the top politico genderist

Mimi and Joe Lemay decided that their child didn't need psychiatric help to work out their identity issues (after all, something like 90% of all gender confused children grow out of it).

Instead they had their child dress and identify as a boy, starting at the age of four years old.

You could barely get a diagnosis of autism by that age.

[Dagnabbit]

On the toilet issue. I think men wont mind who goes into their toilets but to be honest, the women's are much cleaner.

As for womens toilets. I wonder if we shouldn't just let women vote on the issue. After all if the women don't mind, then surely it's a non issue.

I do wonder about changing rooms - in the gym, the swimming pool. Does everybody feel that it's the same issue? Or is that different?

[lannarebirth]

How an individual deals with the situation when their gender identity does not match their biological genitals is a complex issue that is very individualized. Some people are fortunate to have compassionate and excellent medical advice and supportive families. The decisions made are very personal. There isn't one way to deal with it. Changing genitals is by no means the only way. It's an evolving field but it's complicated by the fact that when it's a child, getting started with medical therapies (such as hormones) early means there is the potential for a much more socially acceptable transition. In other words, the resulting transition may appear that the person is CISGENDER to the world. That's not necessarily the best thing for the person, but it is the most socially acceptable ... NOT exactly the same thing. There is no doubt that society expects people to present as male or female, and those that present as ambiguous face social issues and discrimination. Of course people should be screened by qualified medical professionals (not transphobic bigots) to determine whether medical therapies are really the best choice. Mistakes will be made, whether being too aggressive with medical intervention or not aggressive enough. Nobody said being a transgender person is simple or an easy path. That's another reason societies should should more COMPASSION to their situation.

Out of curiosity. How does one determine if a child, who may present as say, an effeminate boy, is in fact gay, a candidate for transgender hormone therapy, or just an effeminate heterosexual kid?

[Jingthing]

Gay boys don't think they're girls. Neither do effeminate straight boys. That's how. For a qualified medical professional to consider discussing aggressive gender i.d. tactics for a child, there would have to be massively strong evidence. Not a boy playing with dolls. More like a boy who insists his gender is WRONG and he's really the OTHER gender, and has for years.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Get back to the toilet issue. Hormone therapy for children is off-topic.

[Puccini]

Transgender toilet use: US schools 'must respect gender identity'

4 hours ago

The Obama administration has told schools to allow transgender pupils to use the toilets that match their chosen gender identity.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said it would protect transgender pupils from discrimination and peer harassment.

...

A new gender identity comes into force as soon as a parent or guardian notifies the school that their child's identity "differs from previous representations or records" and must be respected even if it makes others uncomfortable, the directive says.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36286111

-- BBC 2016-05-13

[Puccini]

Finally, I see a clear and unambiguous official definition of "transgender", at least for students in the USA.

[Jingthing]

One for the courts now ...

[Dagnabbit]

One for the courts now ...

What are your thoughts on changing rooms - in swimming pools, schools and the like?

[Dagnabbit]

Transgender toilet use: US schools 'must respect gender identity'

4 hours ago

The Obama administration has told schools to allow transgender pupils to use the toilets that match their chosen gender identity.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said it would protect transgender pupils from discrimination and peer harassment.

...

A new gender identity comes into force as soon as a parent or guardian notifies the school that their child's identity "differs from previous representations or records" and must be respected even if it makes others uncomfortable, the directive says.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36286111

-- BBC 2016-05-13

Sigh.... now they bring children into it....

. According to the DSM-V, as many as 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.

The American College of Pediatricians is against this. Their statement "Gender Ideology Harms Children" http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

But hey - what do they know about children? Perhaps they know that children go through 'fads' and will often say what they think will please the adults they are around.

This goes much further than toilets. The Obama directive covers not just toilets but locker rooms/changing facilities too. They also state that any kids uncomfortable with this should segregate themselves to single use locker rooms. That'll be cheap!

[Jingthing]

Daggy-baby, you're going well beyond the scope of this thread.

[up-country_sinclair]

The Unintended Victims of Bathroom Bills

Victims of sexual trauma are pleading that legislators keep men out of women's bathrooms. Decency says we should respect that instead of granting special rights to 1/2 of one percent of the population who want attention.

[Jingthing]

Transphobic N.C. bill very damaging to trans kids:

http://www.advocate.com/people/2016/5/12/north-carolina-mom-hb-2-emotionally-killing-trans-kids

“This bill is emotionally killing our children,” she said, noting that the number of calls to suicide support lines had doubled since the law passed.

[sirineou]

And Obama takes the bait, hook ,line and sinker.

" Obama administration orders transgender bathroom access in all public schools "

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/13/obama-administration-order-transgender-bathroom-ac/

remember the burning of the flag issue that Bush senior used to beat Doukakis over the head with. ? The republicans will use this issue to energize the base , distract and beat up the democratic candidate.

I voted for Obama twice, but I cant believe he is so politically inept to take the bait. He should have left the courts deal with this.

[Dagnabbit]

Daggy-baby, you're going well beyond the scope of this thread.

How so?

Did the news article not just bring both school toilets AND locker rooms into it?

Edited May 14, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[Dagnabbit]

The Unintended Victims of Bathroom Bills

Victims of sexual trauma are pleading that legislators keep men out of women's bathrooms. Decency says we should respect that instead of granting special rights to 1/2 of one percent of the population who want attention.

Transphobic N.C. bill very damaging to trans kids:

http://www.advocate.com/people/2016/5/12/north-carolina-mom-hb-2-emotionally-killing-trans-kids

“This bill is emotionally killing our children,” she said, noting that the number of calls to suicide support lines had doubled since the law passed.

Interesting stuff. It seems no-one wants to put actual numbers out there.

We have the up country sinclair post showing vicitms of sexual trauma. But what are the actual stats? How many of these offenses are specifically because of trans people being allowed in girls bathrooms? The first story was about a coach sexually abusing a girl. It is hard to see how that is relevant. Certainly it does nothing to sway my opinion as it's really nothing to do with the issue at hand. It was a child abused by an adult in a position of trust.

Then Jingthings post - about 1 child and a mention in the story about doubling of calls to suicide lines. But again no stats. Has the call rate doubled from 1 to 2? We all know if the numbers were sensational, they would have been used. Also - nobody seems to want to talk about the fact that 98% of boys that think they are girls grow out of it. Any discussion about trans kids should consider this fact. I had an invisible friend till I was 7 - that's just how young children are.

At this point, I think that people on both sides of this debate need to put some meat on the bone of their arguments. It's all very well tugging at our heart strings with sob stories but that just doesn't wash.

Facts and figures.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[Boon Mee]

The world is beset with wars, drugs, corruption at high levels etc and what does Obama focus on?

Ridiculous in the extreme...

[Dagnabbit]

The world is beset with wars, drugs, corruption at high levels etc and what does Obama focus on?

Ridiculous in the extreme...

I find this line of thought disingenuous.

Regardless of whether I agree with Obama on this issue - do you really think he put everything else on hold to focus on this solely?

Just because a President comments on something, does not mean he has put everything else aside.

[up-country_sinclair]

Interesting stuff. It seems no-one wants to put actual numbers out there.

We have the up country sinclair post showing vicitms of sexual trauma. But what are the actual stats? How many of these offenses are specifically because of trans people being allowed in girls bathrooms? The first story was about a coach sexually abusing a girl. It is hard to see how that is relevant. Certainly it does nothing to sway my opinion as it's really nothing to do with the issue at hand. It was a child abused by an adult in a position of trust.

Then Jingthings post - about 1 child and a mention in the story about doubling of calls to suicide lines. But again no stats. Has the call rate doubled from 1 to 2? We all know if the numbers were sensational, they would have been used. Also - nobody seems to want to talk about the fact that 98% of boys that think they are girls grow out of it. Any discussion about trans kids should consider this fact. I had an invisible friend till I was 7 - that's just how young children are.

At this point, I think that people on both sides of this debate need to put some meat on the bone of their arguments. It's all very well tugging at our heart strings with sob stories but that just doesn't wash.

Facts and figures.

Did you even watch the video I posted? Because the video I posted doesn't claim the women were attacked by "transgenders". What it does state quite convincingly is that many women who were victims of sexual assault view the bathroom as a single gender safe space. Having men in such close proximity when they are partially disrobed acts as a trigger bringing back the horrific recollections of their attack and attackers.

And you can cavalierly dismiss these testimonials about their assaults as "sob stories" but I'd bet you'd have a different opinion if it were someone close to you.

[Jingthing]

Rep. Blasts 'Cisgender Bigots' of North Carolina

"You’re going to force people who look like men, act like men, you’re going to force them into a ladies room. My God, what’s wrong with you?” Grayson said.

http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/5/13/rep-blasts-cisgender-bigots-north-carolina

That's it in a nutshell. Fighting the bigots. Sooner or later, the bigots will LOSE.

[Boon Mee]

The problem is Perverts are going to use this new law (and in some cases, already have) to troll for little kiddies.

You want your daughter in the same bathroom with an adult man?

I don't think so...

[Jingthing]

The problem is Perverts are going to use this new law (and in some cases, already have) to troll for little kiddies.

You want your daughter in the same bathroom with an adult man?

I don't think so...

Laws are already on the books about that. You're just using a right wing scare tactic that has NOTHING do with access to bathrooms for trans people.

[Boon Mee]

Nothing right wing about it. You can have hundreds of 'laws' on the books but when my 8 year old daughter has to confront a peeping Tom (or worse) when she has to go to the bog, somethings definitely amiss...

[Dagnabbit]

Interesting stuff. It seems no-one wants to put actual numbers out there.

We have the up country sinclair post showing vicitms of sexual trauma. But what are the actual stats? How many of these offenses are specifically because of trans people being allowed in girls bathrooms? The first story was about a coach sexually abusing a girl. It is hard to see how that is relevant. Certainly it does nothing to sway my opinion as it's really nothing to do with the issue at hand. It was a child abused by an adult in a position of trust.

Then Jingthings post - about 1 child and a mention in the story about doubling of calls to suicide lines. But again no stats. Has the call rate doubled from 1 to 2? We all know if the numbers were sensational, they would have been used. Also - nobody seems to want to talk about the fact that 98% of boys that think they are girls grow out of it. Any discussion about trans kids should consider this fact. I had an invisible friend till I was 7 - that's just how young children are.

At this point, I think that people on both sides of this debate need to put some meat on the bone of their arguments. It's all very well tugging at our heart strings with sob stories but that just doesn't wash.

Facts and figures.

Did you even watch the video I posted? Because the video I posted doesn't claim the women were attacked by "transgenders". What it does state quite convincingly is that many women who were victims of sexual assault view the bathroom as a single gender safe space. Having men in such close proximity when they are partially disrobed acts as a trigger bringing back the horrific recollections of their attack and attackers.

And you can cavalierly dismiss these testimonials about their assaults as "sob stories" but I'd bet you'd have a different opinion if it were someone close to you.

Yes I watched it - as I mentioned in my post, the first woman was attacked by her coach. An adult in a position of trust attacking a little girl.

I personally do not think that boys should be in girls locker rooms but I think these cases are unrelated.

The coach could have taken her to a number of places in the school to abuse her. So once again, I do not see how these cases are related.

It is scare-mongering.

There is a presumption that little girls in locker rooms would just be left to fend for themselves if a gender-confused boy was allowed in. Well in my school we had teachers in the locker rooms too. So my expectation is that in a girls locker room, there would usually be an adult female present.

[Dagnabbit]

The problem is Perverts are going to use this new law (and in some cases, already have) to troll for little kiddies.

You want your daughter in the same bathroom with an adult man?

I don't think so...

Laws are already on the books about that. You're just using a right wing scare tactic that has NOTHING do with access to bathrooms for trans people.

And the new law will be used by these perverts. They will claim trans status and be allowed in. You are smart enough to understand this.

[Boon Mee]

The problem is Perverts are going to use this new law (and in some cases, already have) to troll for little kiddies.

You want your daughter in the same bathroom with an adult man?

I don't think so...

Laws are already on the books about that. You're just using a right wing scare tactic that has NOTHING do with access to bathrooms for trans people.

And the new law will be used by these perverts. They will claim trans status and be allowed in. You are smart enough to understand this.

Got that right

"If you believe a rule of this kind would never be exploited by people with bad intentions, simply search for Jason Pomares, Norwood Smith Burnes, or Taylor Buehler on the search engine of your choice."

http://www.fpiw.org/blog/2016/01/06/bathroom-rule-its-worse-than-we-thought/

[up-country_sinclair]

The problem is Perverts are going to use this new law (and in some cases, already have) to troll for little kiddies.

You want your daughter in the same bathroom with an adult man?

I don't think so...

Laws are already on the books about that. You're just using a right wing scare tactic that has NOTHING do with access to bathrooms for trans people.

What's the legal definition of "transgender"?

There isn't one. This is a risky sociology experiment being pushed on us by political activists.

Thankfully, normal people are rising up and calling this out for the overreach that it is.

[Boon Mee]

The problem is Perverts are going to use this new law (and in some cases, already have) to troll for little kiddies.

You want your daughter in the same bathroom with an adult man?

I don't think so...

Laws are already on the books about that. You're just using a right wing scare tactic that has NOTHING do with access to bathrooms for trans people.

What's the legal definition of "transgender"?

There isn't one. This is a risky sociology experiment being pushed on us by political activists.

Thankfully, normal people are rising up and calling this out for the overreach that it is.

There are only two Genders - Male & Female.

Unless you're residing in Thailand where they consider Ladyboys trannies, I guess?

[Jingthing]

The Obama administration appears to be making a stand that the legal definition of transgender is simply a matter of whether a person IDENTIFIES as the opposite of their birth gender. Yes, this will probably make it to the supreme court someday and it probably should.