Tigers "extinct" in Cambodia - is Thailand next?

[cumgranosalum]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/06/tigers-declared-extinct-in-cambodia?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Green+Light+2016&utm_term=166033&subid=11137&CMP=EMCENVEML1631#comment-72030347

last tiger photographed in 2007, so now a plan to reintroduce....Thailand has room for up to 2000 tigers in the wild, yet the population is believed to be below 200...can anything stop their exit from the planet.

Will the authorities be proud to preside over their extinction?

[KhaoNiaw]

I seem to remember some recent news that the tiger population in Thailand was starting to rise. (The only country in the world where the population is increasing? Something like that.) It wasn't a government report I don't think but something from international organizations.

[cumgranosalum]

They found a population in the east that they didn't realise existed about 3 years ago. unfortunately like Cambodia, there is not enough will or regulation and encroachment can destroy their habitat....take for instance the Mae Wong Dam - rejected time and again since the 1980s but the current Government wants to put it back on the agenda - they have even put it on a list of civil engineering projects that require less permissions to go ahead.

there is also the added problem of the false conservation claims made by people such as the Tiger Temple.

[BuaBS]

Extinction is good . What is extinct , they can't kill anymore. Plenty of tigers in India , lots of attacks.

[cumgranosalum]

Extinction is good . What is extinct , they can't kill anymore. Plenty of tigers in India , lots of attacks.

It's not about just tigers; tigers are the apex predator of an eco-system..

there are no Tigris Corbetti in India......and plenty isn't the way to describe a 90% reduction.

[cyberfarang]

This seems like good news:

http://news.sky.com/story/1675049/poaching-patrols-raise-hope-for-thailands-tigers

[Boycie]

Thailands Tigers are on the rise

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/909023-thailands-tigers-are-on-the-rise/

[cumgranosalum]

This does not mean the "war is won" by a long chalk......The Huai kha Khaeng reserve is about 409 years old...it has been working to preserve the tiger population in that part of the WFC and it looks like they have had some success - which they describe as "fragile".

The most troubling point is that ALL this could be wiped out by the plane to build the Mae Wong Dam....it is this conservation area that is directly threatened by proposals to build this dam...a dam that has been knocked back several times since the 1980s

As i said before their are plenty of good conservationists in Thailand but the people running the show in general know diddly

[Farang99]

As long as the demand for tiger parts for Chinese "traditional medicine" exists the tigers will continue to decline as there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing.

[wabothai]

Comgranosalum, You seem to be the authority on tigers.

Question; are the tigers in Cambodia extinct? yes or no?

[Stevemercer]

I always assumed it was an urban myth that there were still wild tigers in Thailand. If there were, surely there would be a human fatality reported every now and then. I can't recall any such reports. I think it is just tourist propaganda that wild tigers still exist. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

[gandalf12]

This seems like good news:

http://news.sky.com/story/1675049/poaching-patrols-raise-hope-for-thailands-tigers

The tigers rising is due to them having to make a 90 day report which they dont like

[onflipflops]

I always assumed it was an urban myth that there were still wild tigers in Thailand. If there were, surely there would be a human fatality reported every now and then. I can't recall any such reports. I think it is just tourist propaganda that wild tigers still exist. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

@stevemercer Then I can make you happy!

Your assumption is wrong.

And it more or less proofs that tigers are not just blood-thirsty predators that attack each and every human they come across.

Though, part of the reason is also that the low number of tigers still present, probably do not get in touch with people an awful lot.

But the park rangers in Huai Kha Khaeng all tell you the same thing if asking if they fear to get eaten by a tiger when they are on patrol. They all answer that they are much more afraid of elephants than tigers. Tigers tend to avoid people whenever possible. Elephants on the other hand tend to choose more often for defense, therefore you read about reports of elephants killing people every year in Thailand.

I have yet to see one myself. I have 'only' seen leopards. But I have seen enough unmistakable proof of tigers. Pug marks, scrapes, scratches on trees, heard the roars, and even camera trapped a tiger. But still no actual sighting.

My wife's hand next to a huge tiger pug mark on a trail in Huai Kha Khaeng.

They are elusive, and from the radio-collared tigers in HKK they know most of them are primarily active at night. Tourists are not allowed to go out at night in that park, so the chance to see one is quite small. Still I know a few people that have been fortunate to see this magnificent creature. One day I will see it in Thailand!

[Stevemercer]

I think one would have to be incredibly lucky to see a tiger in the wild in Thailand, but good luck. I read somewhere that each incremental population of 500 tigers/lions inevitably equals about 1 human death per year (most through human intrusions on big cats and their cubs).

I've just been reading about the recovery of lions in Gir National Park in India (from 50 to about 500). The lions kill one or two people every year, but the surrounding village lands where the lions are increasingly encroaching are very supportive. They say they are more scared of elephants than the lions which are more predictable and wary of humans.

[cumgranosalum]

Comgranosalum, You seem to be the authority on tigers.

Question; are the tigers in Cambodia extinct? yes or no?

Have you read the article in the OP?

[cumgranosalum]

I always assumed it was an urban myth that there were still wild tigers in Thailand. If there were, surely there would be a human fatality reported every now and then. I can't recall any such reports. I think it is just tourist propaganda that wild tigers still exist. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

This seems to show you don't appreciate either the numbers of tigers and the spaces they occupy or need to occupy or the behaviour of tigers.

i have camped at Huai Kha Khaeng several times as do many other people..

i once asked one of the guys in the admin office there firstly how long he'd been working there and secondly how many tigers he's seen.

answers - 25 years and none.

[bazza40]

This seems like good news:

http://news.sky.com/story/1675049/poaching-patrols-raise-hope-for-thailands-tigers

The tigers rising is due to them having to make a 90 day report which they dont like

The 90 day report is for retired tigers only. The younger ones get sent to attitude adjustment.

[cumgranosalum]

I always assumed it was an urban myth that there were still wild tigers in Thailand. If there were, surely there would be a human fatality reported every now and then. I can't recall any such reports. I think it is just tourist propaganda that wild tigers still exist. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

@stevemercer Then I can make you happy!

Your assumption is wrong.

And it more or less proofs that tigers are not just blood-thirsty predators that attack each and every human they come across.

Though, part of the reason is also that the low number of tigers still present, probably do not get in touch with people an awful lot.

But the park rangers in Huai Kha Khaeng all tell you the same thing if asking if they fear to get eaten by a tiger when they are on patrol. They all answer that they are much more afraid of elephants than tigers. Tigers tend to avoid people whenever possible. Elephants on the other hand tend to choose more often for defense, therefore you read about reports of elephants killing people every year in Thailand.

I have yet to see one myself. I have 'only' seen leopards. But I have seen enough unmistakable proof of tigers. Pug marks, scrapes, scratches on trees, heard the roars, and even camera trapped a tiger. But still no actual sighting.

DSC_1772b.jpg

My wife's hand next to a huge tiger pug mark on a trail in Huai Kha Khaeng.

They are elusive, and from the radio-collared tigers in HKK they know most of them are primarily active at night. Tourists are not allowed to go out at night in that park, so the chance to see one is quite small. Still I know a few people that have been fortunate to see this magnificent creature. One day I will see it in Thailand!

"Pug marks, scrapes, scratches on trees, heard the roars," - IMO this is worth so much more than sitting next to any of the 150 captive tigers at the tiger temple

[cumgranosalum]

the story of HKK is long and toturuous and what the clip is about is a small battle in the overall fight to save the tiger - if the Mae Wong dam goes ahead, it could well undo all these gains....

[bkkrooftop]

As long as the demand for tiger parts for Chinese "traditional medicine" exists the tigers will continue to decline as there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing.

sad but pretty true.. $ wins, and china does not care, like wise the people on the receiving end..

[cumgranosalum]

As long as the demand for tiger parts for Chinese "traditional medicine" exists the tigers will continue to decline as there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing.

sad but pretty true.. $ wins, and china does not care, like wise the people on the receiving end..

I don't accept this defeatist acquiescence; places like HKK have shown that progress can be made. What is needed is the WILL to do this. There are people in Thailand trying to do stuff....but their enemy isn't just the huge international market, it is the ignorance and corruption that pervades those in authority...those who should be taking part in conservation.

[laolover88]

Thaigers extinct?

Oooh I do hope so

[Dumbastheycome]

Pug marks,scratchings, roars in the distance.......you know when you are close.......tiger <deleted> stinks ! South Nepal experience !.Once was enough...them cats is Big!

[Farang99]

As long as the demand for tiger parts for Chinese "traditional medicine" exists the tigers will continue to decline as there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing.

sad but pretty true.. $ wins, and china does not care, like wise the people on the receiving end..

I don't accept this defeatist acquiescence; places like HKK have shown that progress can be made. What is needed is the WILL to do this. There are people in Thailand trying to do stuff....but their enemy isn't just the huge international market, it is the ignorance and corruption that pervades those in authority...those who should be taking part in conservation.

A recent TV programme about an expedition to northern Burma (sorry, Myanmar) to ascertain the value of the forest as a nature reserve, included a visit to a market on the Burma/China.Laos border which was packed with tiger skins, bones, meat etc. all taken from this so-called nature reserve for sale as "medicine".

[cumgranosalum]

As long as the demand for tiger parts for Chinese "traditional medicine" exists the tigers will continue to decline as there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing.

sad but pretty true.. $ wins, and china does not care, like wise the people on the receiving end..

I don't accept this defeatist acquiescence; places like HKK have shown that progress can be made. What is needed is the WILL to do this. There are people in Thailand trying to do stuff....but their enemy isn't just the huge international market, it is the ignorance and corruption that pervades those in authority...those who should be taking part in conservation.

A recent TV programme about an expedition to northern Burma (sorry, Myanmar) to ascertain the value of the forest as a nature reserve, included a visit to a market on the Burma/China.Laos border which was packed with tiger skins, bones, meat etc. all taken from this so-called nature reserve for sale as "medicine".

saw that.....you have to ask, amongst other things WHY......the answer is that people around the world - not just China believe in TCM.....which is unscientific crap. people will always get sick and want to better their lot so they turn to "mumbo-jumbo" to improve their lot.........if they realise what a load of crap this is - eduction - then the market will shrink and die.

There are also large international agancies that countries are signed up to -e.g. CITES which have a real effect on how countries like Thailand handle the illegal wildlife trade.

But illegal trade in wildlife is not the only problem - encroachment, loss o habitat etc are also to blame and governments can and are persuaded to deal with these problems in a sympathetic way.....to sit back and suggest "money will always win" is quite frankly just as bad as the poachers themselves......

“Pessimism becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; it reproduces itself by crippling our willingness to act.” - Zinn.

[cumgranosalum]

As long as the demand for tiger parts for Chinese "traditional medicine" exists the tigers will continue to decline as there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing.

" there is so much money to be made for subsistence farmers who otherwise have nothing." - this is nonsense - what do you mean by "subsistence farmers"?

The people who make money out of capturing/killing endangered species are the same RICH people who run organised crime or corrupt politicians who turn a blind eye.

the poor people on the ground get a pittance for doing te donkeywork and are frquently threatened or blackmailed into cooperating.

[Nayet]

I always assumed it was an urban myth that there were still wild tigers in Thailand. If there were, surely there would be a human fatality reported every now and then. I can't recall any such reports. I think it is just tourist propaganda that wild tigers still exist. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

@stevemercer Then I can make you happy!

Your assumption is wrong.

And it more or less proofs that tigers are not just blood-thirsty predators that attack each and every human they come across.

Though, part of the reason is also that the low number of tigers still present, probably do not get in touch with people an awful lot.u see

But the park rangers in Huai Kha Khaeng all tell you the same thing if asking if they fear to get eaten by a tiger when they are on patrol. They all answer that they are much more afraid of elephants than tigers. Tigers tend to avoid people whenever possible. Elephants on the other hand tend to choose more often for defense, therefore you read about reports of elephants killing people every year in Thailand.

I have yet to see one myself. I have 'only' seen leopards. But I have seen enough unmistakable proof of tigers. Pug marks, scrapes, scratches on trees, heard the roars, and even camera trapped a tiger. But still no actual sighting.

DSC_1772b.jpg

My wife's hand next to a huge tiger pug mark on a trail in Huai Kha Khaeng.

They are elusive, and from the radio-collared tigers in HKK they know most of them are primarily active at night. Tourists are not allowed to go out at night in that park, so the chance to see one is quite small. Still I know a few people that have been fortunate to see this magnificent creature. One day I will see it in Thailand!

Where did you see the leopard? A few weeks back, I saw a big cat right near the road in Khao Yai, but it was dark, and I got too spooked to stick around and find out what it was. I doubt it was a tiger, but quite possibly a leopard.

[cumgranosalum]

Leopards are much more "adaptable" than tigers, their prey overlaps with them but it is also wider - take for instance the problems that people are having with Leopards in highly populated /urban areas..........Tigers cannot do this.