SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[kingalfred]

How would UK trade with Europe post-Brexit?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36087636

EU would see Britain in a very negative light - (BTW - Gove is probably one of the least respectable references for any opinion on this)

UK - whats left of it - would have to re-negotiate from a point of disadvantage 40 years of trade deals and import/export deregulation.

Simply the extra time taken for goods to clear customs in both directions would put millions of pounds/euros on the bills of goods and commodities.

many companies in UK actually run their businesses in Euros - it saves time and effort using the pound - they would all have to re-assess this as the moverment of captial is likely to be restricted by governments trying to hold on to capital and stop it flying out of the country.

UK (or the British Isles) has been part of Europe for 2000 years, our genes,language and trade all come largely from Europe, why on earth would they want to take a deliberate step away - it is nothing short of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

typical arrogant op. "Uk is and would remain part of Europe" as do many other European countries.,Except this time not in a "centralised, bureaucratic, federalist,socialist state" But in truth many like it that way but keeping it quiet!

[Grouse]

How would UK trade with Europe post-Brexit?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36087636

EU would see Britain in a very negative light - (BTW - Gove is probably one of the least respectable references for any opinion on this)

UK - whats left of it - would have to re-negotiate from a point of disadvantage 40 years of trade deals and import/export deregulation.

Simply the extra time taken for goods to clear customs in both directions would put millions of pounds/euros on the bills of goods and commodities.

many companies in UK actually run their businesses in Euros - it saves time and effort using the pound - they would all have to re-assess this as the moverment of captial is likely to be restricted by governments trying to hold on to capital and stop it flying out of the country.

UK (or the British Isles) has been part of Europe for 2000 years, our genes,language and trade all come largely from Europe, why on earth would they want to take a deliberate step away - it is nothing short of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

typical arrogant op. "Uk is and would remain part of Europe" as do many other European countries.,Except this time not in a "centralised, bureaucratic, federalist,socialist state" But in truth many like it that way but keeping it quiet!

Nothing arrogant at all

The man is just putting forward a valid view point

I agree that capital controls would probably have to be introduced

Michael Gove (he's a bit odd) doesn't understand the trade ramifications. Clearly does not understand the Norway, Swiss, Canadian deals. Read small print on EFTA

[cumgranosalum]

How would UK trade with Europe post-Brexit?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36087636

EU would see Britain in a very negative light - (BTW - Gove is probably one of the least respectable references for any opinion on this)

UK - whats left of it - would have to re-negotiate from a point of disadvantage 40 years of trade deals and import/export deregulation.

Simply the extra time taken for goods to clear customs in both directions would put millions of pounds/euros on the bills of goods and commodities.

many companies in UK actually run their businesses in Euros - it saves time and effort using the pound - they would all have to re-assess this as the moverment of captial is likely to be restricted by governments trying to hold on to capital and stop it flying out of the country.

UK (or the British Isles) has been part of Europe for 2000 years, our genes,language and trade all come largely from Europe, why on earth would they want to take a deliberate step away - it is nothing short of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

typical arrogant op. "Uk is and would remain part of Europe" as do many other European countries.,Except this time not in a "centralised, bureaucratic, federalist,socialist state" But in truth many like it that way but keeping it quiet!

ah - King Alfred - of German descent, ruled only half of what is now England.....set up trade with Europe and went to Rome to pay homage to the Pope who appointed him to be King, Rome being the main influence on Europe at the time.

[cumgranosalum]

A bit short sighted. In the end the Scots voted against uncertainty, and there is every chance they would do the same again.

Why try and swim with England in shark infested waters when you can climb aboard the EU lifeboat.

What, and end up like Greece, bankrupt, downtrodden by the EU and ruled by faceless bureaucrats.

Greece falsified the accounts to gain membership of the EU. They were in the brown stuff before joining and looked to the EU to bail them out while continually overspending.

They should have been kicked out when the fraud came to light, issues like that have contributed to the current problems.

More precisely, Goldman s falsified the accounts, albeit legally. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-debt-crisis-goldman-sachs-could-be-sued-for-helping-country-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html

Italy falsified their accounts to - so why should this mean UK should exit?

Seems to me UK'd be better off using the influence of an insider to sort this sort of thing out....outside we just get the fallout and flack.

[nontabury]

What's with all this talk about Scotland separating from the UK if Brexit wins!

The majority of the Scottish people have already voted to remain part of the U.K. and I can't see that changing just because Nicole Sturgeon of the SNP wishes it.

A bit short sighted. In the end the Scots voted against uncertainty, and there is every chance they would do the same again.

Why try and swim with England in shark infested waters when you can climb aboard the EU lifeboat.

What, and end up like Greece, bankrupt, downtrodden by the EU and ruled by faceless bureaucrats.

Greece falsified the accounts to gain membership of the EU. They were in the brown stuff before joining and looked to the EU to bail them out while continually overspending.

They should have been kicked out when the fraud came to light, issues like that have contributed to the current problems.

Correct,ably supported by the corrupt Goldman Sachs. One of many financial institutions who are now recommending that the UK remains in.

[stag4]

Auditors have refused to sign of the EU financial accounts, never mind about Italy

[stag4]

[sandyf]

What, and end up like Greece, bankrupt, downtrodden by the EU and ruled by faceless bureaucrats.

Greece falsified the accounts to gain membership of the EU. They were in the brown stuff before joining and looked to the EU to bail them out while continually overspending.

They should have been kicked out when the fraud came to light, issues like that have contributed to the current problems.

More precisely, Goldman s falsified the accounts, albeit legally. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-debt-crisis-goldman-sachs-could-be-sued-for-helping-country-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html

Greece is looking to pass the buck. This is from 2004

"Greece has admitted it joined the euro in 2001 on the basis of figures that showed its budget deficit to be much lower than it really was."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4012869.stm

[sandyf]

The 'Leave' campaign has been touting Norway, one of the 4 EFTA countries as a role model for Brexit. The implication being that the country has done well by not being a member of the EU.

There is a certain amount of truth in every rumour and in this particular case its a question of omission and allow people to jump to conclusions.

One government CAN spend wisely: Everyone in Norway becomes a millionaire as parliament's cash stockpiles reach 1,000,000 kroner for each person

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536424/Everyone-Norway-millionaire.html#ixzz46LifG7Bq

[MartinL]

Seems to me UK'd be better off using the influence of an insider to sort this sort of thing out....outside we just get the fallout and flack.

A year or so ago, I'd have agreed with you wholeheartedly. However, since then I've moved increasingly into the Brexit camp. Until Cameron came back with his meaningless 'renegotiations', I could still have been persuaded to vote for UK to remain an EU member.

My observations of EU proceedings over the last year have lead me to believe that EU reformation is impossible and that UK's influence for change in the EU is zero. The changes the UK government wants are not what the other EU countries want and vice versa. There is thus no reason to remain as in 'insider' hoping to influence things since it won't happen.

While I wouldn’t allow a report such as the one below to formulate my opinions, it's good to have my own observations confirmed by an organisation which has (presumably) far more time to scrutinise the goings-on of the EU than I do. This report says, among other things, that UK is consistently ignored & outvoted in EU proceedings:-

http://60811b39eee4e42e277a-72b421883bb5b133f34e068afdd7cb11.r29.cf3.rackcdn.com/2016/04/VoteWatch-Report-2016_digital.pdf

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/662422/EU-referendum-Brexit-Britain-outvoted-EU-Council-VoteWatch-Europe-study-MEPs

[Grouse]

The 'Leave' campaign has been touting Norway, one of the 4 EFTA countries as a role model for Brexit. The implication being that the country has done well by not being a member of the EU.

There is a certain amount of truth in every rumour and in this particular case its a question of omission and allow people to jump to conclusions.

One government CAN spend wisely: Everyone in Norway becomes a millionaire as parliament's cash stockpiles reach 1,000,000 kroner for each person

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536424/Everyone-Norway-millionaire.html#ixzz46LifG7Bq

Norway invested its oil revenues wisely (all 4 million people). Thatcher spent all ours in paying dole for steel workers, ship builders and miners. She could have invested in digital electronics and semiconductors

Norway still has to accept all EU regulations without being able to have any input

In all, totally different situation

[Grouse]

image.jpeg

More holes than a colander! Who prepared that? Gove?

[rijit]

Imo leaving would be totally the wrong thing. It would take years if not decades to repair the damage done to international trading relationships and could have huge economic repercussions including huge 'runs' on sterling.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KunMatt]

Remember too - it won't be "Britain" outside the EU, it will be a "mini-UK" England and maybe Wales.

say goodbye to your freedom to live work and travel in Europe without excessive paperwork.

Say goodbye to cheap food and booze.

say good bye to your property rights in EU

Say good bye to your workers rights and benefits

Say goodbye to new roads and civil engineering projects

and say goodbye to car manufacturers and other industries who have been using UK to export to EU.

say good bye to the transport companies that have shipped goods to EU because it was so easy.

Say good bye to your Polish maid/hairdresser etc

Say goodbye to your local delicatessen.

Say goodbye to safe workplaces......

feel free to add your own......

As we are constantly seeing, the "IN" campaign is based on nothing but fear mongering. It's never, "if we stay part of the EU then this good change will happen for us", no, it's all "leave the EU and this horrible thing will happen to your family". It's the exact same fear campaign that the exact same people used against Scotland for their Independence vote, and Scotland got screwed over with a pack of lies and false promises which still haven't materialised. We would all be total mugs to fall for the same scam by the same people all over again.

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it? And why are all the countries in the EU also currently doing so badly? Will adding another 5 struggling countries to the EU benefit us somehow?

This is literally our only chance to jump a sinking ship while it is going down. Everyone who says it is a gamble to leave the EU for some reason doesn't see staying in at this time of uncertainty a gamble either.

I'm definitely OUT for so many reasons, one of the biggest being that I hate the fear mongering propaganda that is being thrown around by people with vested interests to stay in.

[Grouse]

Which aspect has been deteriorating for all those years?

By scaremongering are you referring to pointing out that the unknown is inherently more risky than the status quo?

Do tell EXACTLY what trade deals will be possible?

[KunMatt]

Which aspect has been deteriorating for all those years?

By scaremongering are you referring to pointing out that the unknown is inherently more risky than the status quo?

Do tell EXACTLY what trade deals will be possible?

How is the status quo stable and constant? There's as much risk, if not more, of staying in the EU given what is currently happening there.

[sandyf]

....

I'm definitely OUT for so many reasons, one of the biggest being that I hate the fear mongering propaganda that is being thrown around by people with vested interests to stay in.

One of the biggest weapons in the OUT arsenal is national security, the worst case of fear mongering as you put it.

The arguments are fundamentally flawed. Unlike most of Europe the UK has border control which the OUT people portray as an open door.

Everyone entering the UK is checked, leaving the EU is not going to change that, or is the OUT plan to check them twice. The quality of border control is down to experienced immigration officers and intelligence , nothing to do with EU membership.

In the last few years immigration has introduced automatic gates, will changing those to UK passports only improve security. Getting the gates to open is a technical problem which I am sure the forgers will overcome in due course, if they haven't done so already, nothing to do with EU membership.

A problem issue is Ireland, post Brexit what happens to the Irish free movement agreement? Not heard from the OUT brigade on that one yet. Is the plan a wire fence across Ireland or will they compromise on security and leave an open border between the UK and the EU?

Far too many underlying issues that are not being addressed.

[nontabury]

Auditors have refused to sign of the EU financial accounts, never mind about Italy

They have refused to sign for the last 20yrs.

[nontabury]

Seems to me UK'd be better off using the influence of an insider to sort this sort of thing out....outside we just get the fallout and flack.

A year or so ago, I'd have agreed with you wholeheartedly. However, since then I've moved increasingly into the Brexit camp. Until Cameron came back with his meaningless 'renegotiations', I could still have been persuaded to vote for UK to remain an EU member.

My observations of EU proceedings over the last year have lead me to believe that EU reformation is impossible and that UK's influence for change in the EU is zero. The changes the UK government wants are not what the other EU countries want and vice versa. There is thus no reason to remain as in 'insider' hoping to influence things since it won't happen.

While I wouldn’t allow a report such as the one below to formulate my opinions, it's good to have my own observations confirmed by an organisation which has (presumably) far more time to scrutinise the goings-on of the EU than I do. This report says, among other things, that UK is consistently ignored & outvoted in EU proceedings:-

http://60811b39eee4e42e277a-72b421883bb5b133f34e068afdd7cb11.r29.cf3.rackcdn.com/2016/04/VoteWatch-Report-2016_digital.pdf

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/662422/EU-referendum-Brexit-Britain-outvoted-EU-Council-VoteWatch-Europe-study-MEPs

This is vert important information. Well done Martin.

Yet Jeremy Corbin that man of principle who astonishingly changed his stance on the EU when elected as leader of the Labour Party, now says we should remain in, and change what he admits is an imperfect organisation from within. Amazing!

[nontabury]

Imo leaving would be totally the wrong thing. It would take years if not decades to repair the damage done to international trading relationships and could have huge economic repercussions including huge 'runs' on sterling.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What a defeatist attitude. Especially when the facts show otherwise.

[nontabury]

....

I'm definitely OUT for so many reasons, one of the biggest being that I hate the fear mongering propaganda that is being thrown around by people with vested interests to stay in.

One of the biggest weapons in the OUT arsenal is national security, the worst case of fear mongering as you put it.

The arguments are fundamentally flawed. Unlike most of Europe the UK has border control which the OUT people portray as an open door.

Everyone entering the UK is checked, leaving the EU is not going to change that, or is the OUT plan to check them twice. The quality of border control is down to experienced immigration officers and intelligence , nothing to do with EU membership.

In the last few years immigration has introduced automatic gates, will changing those to UK passports only improve security. Getting the gates to open is a technical problem which I am sure the forgers will overcome in due course, if they haven't done so already, nothing to do with EU membership.

A problem issue is Ireland, post Brexit what happens to the Irish free movement agreement? Not heard from the OUT brigade on that one yet. Is the plan a wire fence across Ireland or will they compromise on security and leave an open border between the UK and the EU?

Far too many underlying issues that are not being addressed.

People from other EU,can Now easily gain entry to the UK, unfortunately this includes many undesirables. These numbers will soon be increased by 75 million Turks. If you are not worried or concerned as to how the UK's membership of the EU is at this moment,then you must surely be,if you look into the direction,the Brussels Eurocrats intend to take the EU.

[sandyf]

....

I'm definitely OUT for so many reasons, one of the biggest being that I hate the fear mongering propaganda that is being thrown around by people with vested interests to stay in.

One of the biggest weapons in the OUT arsenal is national security, the worst case of fear mongering as you put it.

The arguments are fundamentally flawed. Unlike most of Europe the UK has border control which the OUT people portray as an open door.

Everyone entering the UK is checked, leaving the EU is not going to change that, or is the OUT plan to check them twice. The quality of border control is down to experienced immigration officers and intelligence , nothing to do with EU membership.

In the last few years immigration has introduced automatic gates, will changing those to UK passports only improve security. Getting the gates to open is a technical problem which I am sure the forgers will overcome in due course, if they haven't done so already, nothing to do with EU membership.

A problem issue is Ireland, post Brexit what happens to the Irish free movement agreement? Not heard from the OUT brigade on that one yet. Is the plan a wire fence across Ireland or will they compromise on security and leave an open border between the UK and the EU?

Far too many underlying issues that are not being addressed.

People from other EU,can Now easily gain entry to the UK,

Maybe you can explain how, do they get to walk past the immigration officers?

This is the OUT campaign tactic, confuse immigration control with border control. The UK does not have a border control problem that can be solved by leaving the EU. It is a sad state of affairs when people in a position of trust are misleading the public by making out that border control is related to being in the EU.

A large part of the population have never left the country so they have no idea how border control operates so they have to listen to people that they think they can trust.

At the end of the day this vote will come down to trust.

[rogeroc]

People from other EU,can Now easily gain entry to the UK, unfortunately this includes many undesirables. These numbers will soon be increased by 75 million Turks. If you are not worried or concerned as to how the UK's membership of the EU is at this moment,then you must surely be,if you look into the direction,the Brussels Eurocrats intend to take the EU.

Most of the undesirables scrounging off the state probably born in the UK

[KunMatt]

People from other EU,can Now easily gain entry to the UK, unfortunately this includes many undesirables. These numbers will soon be increased by 75 million Turks. If you are not worried or concerned as to how the UK's membership of the EU is at this moment,then you must surely be,if you look into the direction,the Brussels Eurocrats intend to take the EU.

Most of the undesirables scrounging off the state probably born in the UK

I know you were trying to be clever and/or witty but think about what you wrote. Surely EVERYBODY who is claiming benefits from the UK should be born in the UK or at least be a British citizen. Right now, anyone from the EU is currently free to live and work in the UK and they can claim benefits for their families back home.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-and-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-claiming-benefits-as-a-family-member/

[rogeroc]

No not atall it is widely stated that many migrants are here doing jobs that Brits simply won't do even if they are unemployed.

[Orac]

Remember too - it won't be "Britain" outside the EU, it will be a "mini-UK" England and maybe Wales.

say goodbye to your freedom to live work and travel in Europe without excessive paperwork.

Say goodbye to cheap food and booze.

say good bye to your property rights in EU

Say good bye to your workers rights and benefits

Say goodbye to new roads and civil engineering projects

and say goodbye to car manufacturers and other industries who have been using UK to export to EU.

say good bye to the transport companies that have shipped goods to EU because it was so easy.

Say good bye to your Polish maid/hairdresser etc

Say goodbye to your local delicatessen.

Say goodbye to safe workplaces......

feel free to add your own......

As we are constantly seeing, the "IN" campaign is based on nothing but fear mongering. It's never, "if we stay part of the EU then this good change will happen for us", no, it's all "leave the EU and this horrible thing will happen to your family". It's the exact same fear campaign that the exact same people used against Scotland for their Independence vote, and Scotland got screwed over with a pack of lies and false promises which still haven't materialised. We would all be total mugs to fall for the same scam by the same people all over again.

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it? And why are all the countries in the EU also currently doing so badly? Will adding another 5 struggling countries to the EU benefit us somehow?

This is literally our only chance to jump a sinking ship while it is going down. Everyone who says it is a gamble to leave the EU for some reason doesn't see staying in at this time of uncertainty a gamble either.

I'm definitely OUT for so many reasons, one of the biggest being that I hate the fear mongering propaganda that is being thrown around by people with vested interests to stay in.

Would be interested what things you are looking back on with nostalgia from 43 years ago when Britain was doing so well.

Could it have been our superior economy with the three day week, miners strikes and inflation which went above 17%

Maybe the sense of security and not being in fear of terrorists attacking us coming in from other European countries due to our strong border controls with our neighbors - just ignore those ex pubs in Guilford and Birmingham along with the various bombs on M62 coaches, Houses of Parliament and Tower of London.

Interestingly the National Front gained in popularity due to the upcoming Europe vote with several fascist marches around the country.

Still, not everything was that bad. The poor state of affairs at the time allowed Maggie to gain leadership of the Tory party leading to a regeneration of the UK within the EU. Unfortunately she has now passed on and all I can see left in the UK are a very poor set of political characters who lack the strength and commitment of Thatcher to lead us separately from Europe and will probably drive the country back to the state it was in 43 years ago - maybe they can also revive Jim 'll Fix It which started in '75 with Glitter or someone so the kids can enjoy reliving that golden age as well.

[Thongkorn]

No not atall it is widely stated that many migrants are here doing jobs that Brits simply won't do even if they are unemployed.

What a load of <deleted> 400 odd foreign murders in British prisons . And we cannot deport them. Health tourists. What's you excuse for that. Do Brits not want to go to hospital. No hey are full of people from the EU. Came in without proper health screening. Because of the kingEU. Now the British tax payer has to keep them in life long health care along with the prisoners. And they have not payed into the system. Yet British old aged people have to chose between eating or going cold. Because the government says: we don't have enough money:

[Linzz]

Remember too - it won't be "Britain" outside the EU, it will be a "mini-UK" England and maybe Wales.

say goodbye to your freedom to live work and travel in Europe without excessive paperwork.

Say goodbye to cheap food and booze.

say good bye to your property rights in EU

Say good bye to your workers rights and benefits

Say goodbye to new roads and civil engineering projects

and say goodbye to car manufacturers and other industries who have been using UK to export to EU.

say good bye to the transport companies that have shipped goods to EU because it was so easy.

Say good bye to your Polish maid/hairdresser etc

Say goodbye to your local delicatessen.

Say goodbye to safe workplaces......

feel free to add your own......

As we are constantly seeing, the "IN" campaign is based on nothing but fear mongering. It's never, "if we stay part of the EU then this good change will happen for us", no, it's all "leave the EU and this horrible thing will happen to your family". It's the exact same fear campaign that the exact same people used against Scotland for their Independence vote, and Scotland got screwed over with a pack of lies and false promises which still haven't materialised. We would all be total mugs to fall for the same scam by the same people all over again.

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it? And why are all the countries in the EU also currently doing so badly? Will adding another 5 struggling countries to the EU benefit us somehow?

This is literally our only chance to jump a sinking ship while it is going down. Everyone who says it is a gamble to leave the EU for some reason doesn't see staying in at this time of uncertainty a gamble either.

I'm definitely OUT for so many reasons, one of the biggest being that I hate the fear mongering propaganda that is being thrown around by people with vested interests to stay in.

Would be interested what things you are looking back on with nostalgia from 43 years ago when Britain was doing so well.

Could it have been our superior economy with the three day week, miners strikes and inflation which went above 17%

Maybe the sense of security and not being in fear of terrorists attacking us coming in from other European countries due to our strong border controls with our neighbors - just ignore those ex pubs in Guilford and Birmingham along with the various bombs on M62 coaches, Houses of Parliament and Tower of London.

Interestingly the National Front gained in popularity due to the upcoming Europe vote with several fascist marches around the country.

Still, not everything was that bad. The poor state of affairs at the time allowed Maggie to gain leadership of the Tory party leading to a regeneration of the UK within the EU. Unfortunately she has now passed on and all I can see left in the UK are a very poor set of political characters who lack the strength and commitment of Thatcher to lead us separately from Europe and will probably drive the country back to the state it was in 43 years ago - maybe they can also revive Jim 'll Fix It which started in '75 with Glitter or someone so the kids can enjoy reliving that golden age as well.

The idea of a United states of Europe to become the financial center of the world and dethrone the dollar is not working.

The idea of forming a union to eliminate European wars has not produced political union.

The European Central Bank's Mario Draghi (ex Goldman Sachs) has never been elected

The IMF has never been elected

The Troika doesn't have to worry about polls nor worry about elections = authoritarian government

Witness the building of an undemocratic centralized government run by bureaucrats like ex Maoist ex Commissioner Barroso in Brussels

The Greek people never voted to join the EU

The European taxpayers bail out the bondholders and the banks

Thatcher was right

[Linzz]

[cumgranosalum]

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it?

Answer is they aren't going badly