SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[cumgranosalum]

It makes me laugh too much that some on here who pi**ed it up against the wall while they went to University think that anyone who has not been to Uni is uneducated. Do Thai students who go to Uni turn out educated? Do those in the USA that go to Uni yet still believe in creationism turn out educated?

I left school at 16, at 22 was a fighter pilot in the airforce, flew as a professional military pilot until 38, started three businesses, one training pilots, two selling aircraft, I can currently debate with any other person on the planet concerning quantum entanglement, have just been 'invited' and accepted for separate private meetings in the last week with the PM, Dep PM, Def Min and Dep Def Min in a local country to here and got bored after a while transferring more than 150k USD per month to myself as a token salary. All without a degree!! What a waste of a life and an uneducated person I am. Guess I have no right to comment on Brexit, I am not clever enough. Glad we have so many educated people on here that can tell non degree holders they are not smart enough to make the right decision. Guess I need to spend more time trying to improve myself and figuring out how to spend 150k USD a month from my stupid uneducated upbringing and career.

Minimum qualifications to be a fighter pilot in the US Air force is a Bachelor's degree.

https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/pilot

In 1980 minimum qualifications to be a fighter pilot in the British Air Force were 5 GCE 'O' Levels. Kind of figures how much your bachelors degree was worth. Where did I say I was US? Are you trying to call me on this one?

You've got to excuse him Al, he's still stuck in the British class system,probably expects none University people to touch their forlock when in his presence.

"probably expects none University people to touch their forlock" - I don't usually point out mistakes (x2) like this but in view of the point that is being attempted, it would seem an appropriate time to do so.

We all make typos and grammatical errors but you could have at least tried to make sure that this attempt at an insult was written correctly before turning it on yourself.

[cumgranosalum]

It makes me laugh too much that some on here who pi**ed it up against the wall while they went to University think that anyone who has not been to Uni is uneducated. Do Thai students who go to Uni turn out educated? Do those in the USA that go to Uni yet still believe in creationism turn out educated?

I left school at 16, at 22 was a fighter pilot in the airforce, flew as a professional military pilot until 38, started three businesses, one training pilots, two selling aircraft, I can currently debate with any other person on the planet concerning quantum entanglement, have just been 'invited' and accepted for separate private meetings in the last week with the PM, Dep PM, Def Min and Dep Def Min in a local country to here and got bored after a while transferring more than 150k USD per month to myself as a token salary. All without a degree!! What a waste of a life and an uneducated person I am. Guess I have no right to comment on Brexit, I am not clever enough. Glad we have so many educated people on here that can tell non degree holders they are not smart enough to make the right decision. Guess I need to spend more time trying to improve myself and figuring out how to spend 150k USD a month from my stupid uneducated upbringing and career.

Minimum qualifications to be a fighter pilot in the US Air force is a Bachelor's degree.

https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/pilot

it is unfortunately a hallmark of those who didn't go to university they they don't actually appreciate what educated means. They frequently confuse training with education.

A degree is by no means guarantee against stupidity, and many without a University eduction learn in other ways....but those who haven't clearly show their lack of understanding by proclaiming irrelevancies such as income or training which they naively mistake for criteria of success.

However the one thing that really sticks out amongst those who went to the "University of Life" or "school of Hard Knocks" is that they are pretty much completely unaware of and unversed in the techniques of critical thinking. This is something that you are unlikely to pick up outside a tertiary educational establishment.

What a pretentious p****. Is that critical thinking enough for you. You display the most classic traits of an uneducated person that thinks they are educated. I need to leave, I want to throw up.

QED - your post perfectly encapsulates the points I was trying to make

Edited April 23, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[rogeroc]

It makes me laugh too much that some on here who pi**ed it up against the wall while they went to University think that anyone who has not been to Uni is uneducated. Do Thai students who go to Uni turn out educated? Do those in the USA that go to Uni yet still believe in creationism turn out educated?

I left school at 16, at 22 was a fighter pilot in the airforce, flew as a professional military pilot until 38, started three businesses, one training pilots, two selling aircraft, I can currently debate with any other person on the planet concerning quantum entanglement, have just been 'invited' and accepted for separate private meetings in the last week with the PM, Dep PM, Def Min and Dep Def Min in a local country to here and got bored after a while transferring more than 150k USD per month to myself as a token salary. All without a degree!! What a waste of a life and an uneducated person I am. Guess I have no right to comment on Brexit, I am not clever enough. Glad we have so many educated people on here that can tell non degree holders they are not smart enough to make the right decision. Guess I need to spend more time trying to improve myself and figuring out how to spend 150k USD a month from my stupid uneducated upbringing and career.

So what are your views on Brexit and how do you support those views?

[chiang mai]

Renault would need 50.1% of Nissan shares to be a controlling shareholder.

At the moment Renault is a minority shareholder in Nissan, AND DOES NOT OWN IT.

In turn, there are certain cross-holdings, between Nissan, Renault and Daimler AG.

I used the word. "effectively", I did not not write that they categorically are and since Renault is the majority shareholder at 43%, this effect of them owning 43% of the Nissan shares amounts to ownership.

[chiang mai]

The dialogue is getting old, the issue is a forgone conclusion, time to move on to the future rather than dwell on what might have been.

forgone conclusion - well this would be the opinion of someone with little or no understanding of te situation past or present....

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/04/daily-chart-11

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-21/probability-of-brexit-drops-to-20-as-polls-move-against-leave

The markets say we wont leave, everyone of any standing in the world is saying we shouldn't leave, the poll of polls says we wont leave, nobody has put forward a sensible logic and structured argument why we should leave, your link shows that only old people want us to leave and nostalgic expats on TVF are the worst of these - ergo, we wont leave, move on.

The list of business leaders who are recommending that we leave this corrupt so called Union is endless. Two that come to mind are the former Chief executive of HSBC Michael Geoghegan and John Longworth who recently resigned his role as Director General of the British Chamber of Commerce in order to lead the "Vote Leave" group.

Longworth has said that "If we vote leave,liberated from the shackles of EU membership,jobs will be safer,Britain will be able to spend OUR money on our priorities and we can look forward to faster growth and greater prosperity in the Future"

Do you mean this list, the one that many "signatories" had never seen:

"“But on Sunday, the names of Carphone Warehouse co-founder David Ross and Phones4U founder John Caudwell were removed from the list. Some of those named on the letter say they never actually signed it, many are not business leaders at all, there isn’t a single FTSE 100 chief executive among them, and others have publicly admitted Brexit would cause severe damage to Britain’s economy,” he said".

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d104becc-f413-11e5-96db-fc683b5e52db.html

[chiang mai]

Sat here this morning reading all the bits and pieces on this subject, the similarities between Brexit and the Global Warming issue are striking. Both have two camps, for and against, both have one camp staffed by large numbers of prominent players who have set out their reasons why in great detail whilst the other camp comprises mostly people who say, it's all scare tactics and lies and produce almost no supporting evidence. Sadly for the rest of us, picking the wrong answer in either of those debates has dire and serious consequences, FWIW I'm a clear believer in pollution based Global Warming also and whilst it's right that everyone should be able to have an opinion on anything, I do think the anti Global Warmers are mostly a bunch of loonies - "wait and see", they tell us, hmm, how does that work if they're wrong!

Edited April 23, 2016 by chiang mai

[Grouse]

Personally, I have my feet firmly planted in the "BREXIT" camp as opposed to being with the "BREMAIN"

brigade.

Why?

Because I think that although trade relationships are pretty strongly entrenched, and which in any

case was the original raison d'etre for the EC, politically-speaking there is potentially more doubt and

uncertainty going forward, than ever before. THAT is the unknown quantity, and it is indeed to be

feared, as, despite Cameron's insistances, the United Kingdom's sovereignty will be more and more

suborned to that of Europe's. What then, as the die will have been well and truly cast?

One simply doesn't know what this beast will look like in decades ahead, and the United Kingdom's minor

political role, which will diminish even more with the accession of Turkey and perhaps other nations as time

goes on, will just be a footnote in history, as the saying goes.

There is more certainty for the British in understanding and accommodating how their country is, and

has been, governed, than the future imponderables as to how the mandarins of Brussels, and the

suasion of the bigger voices like Germany and France, will steer the European Union going forward.

And Britain will be utterly powerless to change it, even if it wanted to.

Voting for BREXIT is a historic, and possibly unlikely-to-be-repeated opportunity, for the United

Kingdom to get out of this "club". Rather than the future being uncertain outside of Europe, it will have,

in my opinion, more certainty being and outside player and observer.

"THAT is the unknown quantity," - I'd say the EU is pretty predictable and "out" will be unpredictable - e.g. the motor industry.

UK motor industry has a huge section building cars for Europe - the Japanese are there because it allows them a foothold in the EU - without the trade agreement it will be easy for them to switch production to other plants in Europe now - so I fail to see how they can remain in UK - and that will include all the associated industries too.

The lack of exports to Europe will require the renegotiation of hundreds of complex trade agreements that UK was party to as an EU member - I can't see how the UK will avoid a massive rise in unemployment until this is sorted in 4,5, 10 years time, by which time the UK's key advantage will have to be cheap labour rates - easy enough to achieve in years to come with high unemployment and the end of free movement of labour for EU citizens around the EU.

again the above poster seems to have the inate fear or Germany......the UK economy is firstly set to overtake Germany's by 2020, and Germany at present are on OUR SIDE - WW2 is OVER! - but out of the EU they will NOT be on our side and will even be antagonistic.

te treaty of Rome was established precisely to eliminate over aggressive competitiveness and leaving the party will do nothing to avoid that.

Was'nt it Nissen that came out a few months ago,stating a Britexit will make no difference to it's intention to continuing producing cars in the Northeast.

Now why are they unconcerned,yet you're sh-ting your pants at the prospect?

Nissan owned by Renault - "Nissan has waded into the debate on a possible UK exit from the European Union, saying that remaining in the EU makes the most sense for jobs, trade and costs. FT

- if they can't sell their cars they won't keep making them.

As n individual. You have constantly posted that those who are for Brexit are of low education and all sorts of other offensive insinuations.

And then you post the above.

Renault own Nissan do they ?

Less flapping your gums and a bit more education needed. DUNCE.

Maybe Cumgranosalum and his fellow arrogant friends, want to go back to before the Reform Act of 1832 and subsequent Reform acts that restricted voters to a narrow group of people. Preferably to those who agree with him.

Great! Who's idea was general suffrage anyway?

Edited April 23, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

BBC reporting HRC is stating that she strongly supports UK remaining in EU

Still waiting for anyone of stature to support Brexit

[cumgranosalum]

Personally, I have my feet firmly planted in the "BREXIT" camp as opposed to being with the "BREMAIN"

brigade.

Why?

Because I think that although trade relationships are pretty strongly entrenched, and which in any

case was the original raison d'etre for the EC, politically-speaking there is potentially more doubt and

uncertainty going forward, than ever before. THAT is the unknown quantity, and it is indeed to be

feared, as, despite Cameron's insistances, the United Kingdom's sovereignty will be more and more

suborned to that of Europe's. What then, as the die will have been well and truly cast?

One simply doesn't know what this beast will look like in decades ahead, and the United Kingdom's minor

political role, which will diminish even more with the accession of Turkey and perhaps other nations as time

goes on, will just be a footnote in history, as the saying goes.

There is more certainty for the British in understanding and accommodating how their country is, and

has been, governed, than the future imponderables as to how the mandarins of Brussels, and the

suasion of the bigger voices like Germany and France, will steer the European Union going forward.

And Britain will be utterly powerless to change it, even if it wanted to.

Voting for BREXIT is a historic, and possibly unlikely-to-be-repeated opportunity, for the United

Kingdom to get out of this "club". Rather than the future being uncertain outside of Europe, it will have,

in my opinion, more certainty being and outside player and observer.

"THAT is the unknown quantity," - I'd say the EU is pretty predictable and "out" will be unpredictable - e.g. the motor industry.

UK motor industry has a huge section building cars for Europe - the Japanese are there because it allows them a foothold in the EU - without the trade agreement it will be easy for them to switch production to other plants in Europe now - so I fail to see how they can remain in UK - and that will include all the associated industries too.

The lack of exports to Europe will require the renegotiation of hundreds of complex trade agreements that UK was party to as an EU member - I can't see how the UK will avoid a massive rise in unemployment until this is sorted in 4,5, 10 years time, by which time the UK's key advantage will have to be cheap labour rates - easy enough to achieve in years to come with high unemployment and the end of free movement of labour for EU citizens around the EU.

again the above poster seems to have the inate fear or Germany......the UK economy is firstly set to overtake Germany's by 2020, and Germany at present are on OUR SIDE - WW2 is OVER! - but out of the EU they will NOT be on our side and will even be antagonistic.

te treaty of Rome was established precisely to eliminate over aggressive competitiveness and leaving the party will do nothing to avoid that.

Was'nt it Nissen that came out a few months ago,stating a Britexit will make no difference to it's intention to continuing producing cars in the Northeast.

Now why are they unconcerned,yet you're sh-ting your pants at the prospect?

Nissan owned by Renault - "Nissan has waded into the debate on a possible UK exit from the European Union, saying that remaining in the EU makes the most sense for jobs, trade and costs. FT

- if they can't sell their cars they won't keep making them.

As n individual. You have constantly posted that those who are for Brexit are of low education and all sorts of other offensive insinuations.

And then you post the above.

Renault own Nissan do they ?

Less flapping your gums and a bit more education needed. DUNCE.

Maybe Cumgranosalum and his fellow arrogant friends, want to go back to before the Reform Act of 1832 and subsequent Reform acts that restricted voters to a narrow group of people. Preferably to those who agree with him.

Great! Who's idea was general suffrage anyway?

Yet again is this the kind of thing Brexiteers consider to be an argument?

Edited April 23, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

BBC reporting HRC is stating that she strongly supports UK remaining in EU

Still waiting for anyone of stature to support Brexit

The Brexit celebs were described the other day as looking like the guest list off a 1980s Parkinson Show

[cumgranosalum]

"As an individual" - what a strange phrase - anyhoo here's an example of another "idividual" - this time Chatham House...

"Our analysis of around 30,000 Britons reveals that, broadly, those who would vote to leave the EU tend to have left school before their 17th birthday, to have few or no advanced academic qualifications, to be over 55 years old, and to work in less secure, lower-income jobs. In contrast, those who want Britain to remain a member of the EU tend to be younger, to be more highly educated, and to have more financially secure and professional jobs. - See more at: https://www.chathamhouse.org/publication/britain-european-union-referendum-what-drives-euroscepticism?gclid=CjwKEAjwuuy4BRCvs43g9fX9mz4SJACiYydPuN3532Y5n991tUDVfz-RCHjtncR4heHZqsONEFpfYxoCLyfw_wcB#sthash.eDHRAzqX.dpuf

BTW - Renault currently has a 43.4 percent (fully voting) stake in Nissan, and Nissan holds a 15 percent (non-voting) stake in Renault effectively giving Renault control. They took over when Nissan was on the verge of collapse. perhpas a little more research and a little less blind gainsaying on the part of some Brexiteers?

[cumgranosalum]

I've noticed that many criticisms Brexiteers cite about the EU are in reality nothing to do with the EU.......immigration, courts of humans rights etc all these things are not part of the EU they are treaties the UK has signed outside the EU and are still internationally binding.

Opinions are based on reasoned informed analysis, i see little evidence of that from the out camp in this column...a lot of ad hominem vitriol and gainsaying but as yet no opinion.

[chiang mai]

Perhaps let this be the last word on Renault/Nissan and move on?

http://fortune.com/2014/12/29/renault-nissan-carlos-ghosn/

[Linzz]

It makes me laugh too much that some on here who pi**ed it up against the wall while they went to University think that anyone who has not been to Uni is uneducated. Do Thai students who go to Uni turn out educated? Do those in the USA that go to Uni yet still believe in creationism turn out educated?

I left school at 16, at 22 was a fighter pilot in the airforce, flew as a professional military pilot until 38, started three businesses, one training pilots, two selling aircraft, I can currently debate with any other person on the planet concerning quantum entanglement, have just been 'invited' and accepted for separate private meetings in the last week with the PM, Dep PM, Def Min and Dep Def Min in a local country to here and got bored after a while transferring more than 150k USD per month to myself as a token salary. All without a degree!! What a waste of a life and an uneducated person I am. Guess I have no right to comment on Brexit, I am not clever enough. Glad we have so many educated people on here that can tell non degree holders they are not smart enough to make the right decision. Guess I need to spend more time trying to improve myself and figuring out how to spend 150k USD a month from my stupid uneducated upbringing and career.

Minimum qualifications to be a fighter pilot in the US Air force is a Bachelor's degree.

https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/pilot

it is unfortunately a hallmark of those who didn't go to university they they don't actually appreciate what educated means. They frequently confuse training with education.

A degree is by no means guarantee against stupidity, and many without a University eduction learn in other ways....but those who haven't clearly show their lack of understanding by proclaiming irrelevancies such as income or training which they naively mistake for criteria of success.

However the one thing that really sticks out amongst those who went to the "University of Life" or "school of Hard Knocks" is that they are pretty much completely unaware of and unversed in the techniques of critical thinking. This is something that you are unlikely to pick up outside a tertiary educational establishment.

QED above.

What totally unabashed snobbery. A fantasist comment from an ivory tower no less.

[sandyf]

There is no doubt a Brexit would change the UK forever, but would it really be for the better.

It seems to me that Boris Johnson is looking to move up in the world should the campaign succeed. I think however that more than Cameron will fall on their sword should that happen and it may very well lead to a general election.

With both major party leaders on the remain side many out voters may well decamp to the smaller parties leading to a coalition government.

A coalition government leading the negotiations for the EU exit - the UK's worst nightmare.

[Felipesed]

A degree is by no means guarantee against stupidity, and many without a University eduction learn in other ways....but those who haven't clearly show their lack of understanding by proclaiming irrelevancies such as income or training which they naively mistake for criteria of success.

However the one thing that really sticks out amongst those who went to the "University of Life" or "school of Hard Knocks" is that they are pretty much completely unaware of and unversed in the techniques of critical thinking. This is something that you are unlikely to pick up outside a tertiary educational establishment.

QED above.

What arrogant, pretentious nonsense!

What "critical thinking" do you think is required for a "degree" in Media Studies, Communication, Golf Course Management, Social Studies and similar fake courses from Polytechnics that should never have been credited with awarding degrees in the first place.

Also, in another thread, you seem to be incapable of working out why ThaiVisa is slow and not working for you, so what happened to your "critical thinking"?

Incidentally, perhaps you should grace us with your qualifications, so we can make comparisons.

You have no factual argument against Brexit, but just repeat scare stories of what might happen based on the predictions of economists, and we have all seen how valuable and accurate they are!

If you wish to be taken seriously, please do not insult other posters and cast aspersions about their ability to reason.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Felipesed

[Felipesed]

BBC reporting HRC is stating that she strongly supports UK remaining in EU

Still waiting for anyone of stature to support Brexit

If a proven liar and incompetent politician of her stature supports remaining in the EU, then that is an excellent reason to leave!

[Grouse]

Personally, I have my feet firmly planted in the "BREXIT" camp as opposed to being with the "BREMAIN"
brigade.
Why?
Because I think that although trade relationships are pretty strongly entrenched, and which in any
case was the original raison d'etre for the EC, politically-speaking there is potentially more doubt and
uncertainty going forward, than ever before. THAT is the unknown quantity, and it is indeed to be
feared, as, despite Cameron's insistances, the United Kingdom's sovereignty will be more and more
suborned to that of Europe's. What then, as the die will have been well and truly cast?
One simply doesn't know what this beast will look like in decades ahead, and the United Kingdom's minor
political role, which will diminish even more with the accession of Turkey and perhaps other nations as time
goes on, will just be a footnote in history, as the saying goes.

There is more certainty for the British in understanding and accommodating how their country is, and
has been, governed, than the future imponderables as to how the mandarins of Brussels, and the
suasion of the bigger voices like Germany and France, will steer the European Union going forward.
And Britain will be utterly powerless to change it, even if it wanted to.

Voting for BREXIT is a historic, and possibly unlikely-to-be-repeated opportunity, for the United
Kingdom to get out of this "club". Rather than the future being uncertain outside of Europe, it will have,
in my opinion, more certainty being and outside player and observer.

"THAT is the unknown quantity," - I'd say the EU is pretty predictable and "out" will be unpredictable - e.g. the motor industry.

UK motor industry has a huge section building cars for Europe - the Japanese are there because it allows them a foothold in the EU - without the trade agreement it will be easy for them to switch production to other plants in Europe now - so I fail to see how they can remain in UK - and that will include all the associated industries too.
The lack of exports to Europe will require the renegotiation of hundreds of complex trade agreements that UK was party to as an EU member - I can't see how the UK will avoid a massive rise in unemployment until this is sorted in 4,5, 10 years time, by which time the UK's key advantage will have to be cheap labour rates - easy enough to achieve in years to come with high unemployment and the end of free movement of labour for EU citizens around the EU.

again the above poster seems to have the inate fear or Germany......the UK economy is firstly set to overtake Germany's by 2020, and Germany at present are on OUR SIDE - WW2 is OVER! - but out of the EU they will NOT be on our side and will even be antagonistic.
te treaty of Rome was established precisely to eliminate over aggressive competitiveness and leaving the party will do nothing to avoid that.

Was'nt it Nissen that came out a few months ago,stating a Britexit will make no difference to it's intention to continuing producing cars in the Northeast.
Now why are they unconcerned,yet you're sh-ting your pants at the prospect?

Nissan owned by Renault - "Nissan has waded into the debate on a possible UK exit from the European Union, saying that remaining in the EU makes the most sense for jobs, trade and costs. FT

- if they can't sell their cars they won't keep making them.

As n individual. You have constantly posted that those who are for Brexit are of low education and all sorts of other offensive insinuations.

And then you post the above.

Renault own Nissan do they ?

Less flapping your gums and a bit more education needed. DUNCE.

Maybe Cumgranosalum and his fellow arrogant friends, want to go back to before the Reform Act of 1832 and subsequent Reform acts that restricted voters to a narrow group of people. Preferably to those who agree with him.

Great! Who's idea was general suffrage anyway?

I was of course being facetious. However I do believe that one has a duty to become informed before voting and not just vote from the gut (or spleen)

[Apiwan2]

I would like to see the U.K. stay in the E.U. I am a U.K. citizen and on a purely personal view there are many reports that the British pound would tank by approx. 20% which would be extremely detrimental to my financies .

Then scare mongering from Cameron is working.

The UK is a shit place now because of the EU . We joined a common market not a dictatorship who still haven't had the books signed off from the Start.

I'm voting out

[Grouse]

BBC reporting HRC is stating that she strongly supports UK remaining in EU

Still waiting for anyone of stature to support Brexit

If a proven liar and incompetent politician of her stature supports remaining in the EU, then that is an excellent reason to leave!

And the codswallop continues. The point was that people made the point that Obama would not be POTUS much longer. We now see his likely successor takes the same view Edited April 24, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

I would like to see the U.K. stay in the E.U. I am a U.K. citizen and on a purely personal view there are many reports that the British pound would tank by approx. 20% which would be extremely detrimental to my financies .

Then scare mongering from Cameron is working.

The UK is a shit place now because of the EU . We joined a common market not a dictatorship who still haven't had the books signed off from the Start.

I'm voting out

Hillarious!

Certainly the UK is not the country it once was but that is despite the EU not because of it

Personally, I blame

Multiculturalism

Political correctness

Dumbing down of media

Poorer education

Celebrity "culture"

Loss of society generally

Yobbishness

Blind pursuit of shareholder value

Loss of village pubs

I could go on

Strong bonds with mainland Europe are a boon

Edited April 24, 2016 by Grouse

[cumgranosalum]

The more the Brexiteers post, the more they live up to the stereotype!

[cumgranosalum]

Personally, I have my feet firmly planted in the "BREXIT" camp as opposed to being with the "BREMAIN"

brigade.

Why?

Because I think that although trade relationships are pretty strongly entrenched, and which in any

case was the original raison d'etre for the EC, politically-speaking there is potentially more doubt and

uncertainty going forward, than ever before. THAT is the unknown quantity, and it is indeed to be

feared, as, despite Cameron's insistances, the United Kingdom's sovereignty will be more and more

suborned to that of Europe's. What then, as the die will have been well and truly cast?

One simply doesn't know what this beast will look like in decades ahead, and the United Kingdom's minor

political role, which will diminish even more with the accession of Turkey and perhaps other nations as time

goes on, will just be a footnote in history, as the saying goes.

There is more certainty for the British in understanding and accommodating how their country is, and

has been, governed, than the future imponderables as to how the mandarins of Brussels, and the

suasion of the bigger voices like Germany and France, will steer the European Union going forward.

And Britain will be utterly powerless to change it, even if it wanted to.

Voting for BREXIT is a historic, and possibly unlikely-to-be-repeated opportunity, for the United

Kingdom to get out of this "club". Rather than the future being uncertain outside of Europe, it will have,

in my opinion, more certainty being and outside player and observer.

"THAT is the unknown quantity," - I'd say the EU is pretty predictable and "out" will be unpredictable - e.g. the motor industry.

UK motor industry has a huge section building cars for Europe - the Japanese are there because it allows them a foothold in the EU - without the trade agreement it will be easy for them to switch production to other plants in Europe now - so I fail to see how they can remain in UK - and that will include all the associated industries too.

The lack of exports to Europe will require the renegotiation of hundreds of complex trade agreements that UK was party to as an EU member - I can't see how the UK will avoid a massive rise in unemployment until this is sorted in 4,5, 10 years time, by which time the UK's key advantage will have to be cheap labour rates - easy enough to achieve in years to come with high unemployment and the end of free movement of labour for EU citizens around the EU.

again the above poster seems to have the inate fear or Germany......the UK economy is firstly set to overtake Germany's by 2020, and Germany at present are on OUR SIDE - WW2 is OVER! - but out of the EU they will NOT be on our side and will even be antagonistic.

te treaty of Rome was established precisely to eliminate over aggressive competitiveness and leaving the party will do nothing to avoid that.

Was'nt it Nissen that came out a few months ago,stating a Britexit will make no difference to it's intention to continuing producing cars in the Northeast.

Now why are they unconcerned,yet you're sh-ting your pants at the prospect?

Nissan owned by Renault - "Nissan has waded into the debate on a possible UK exit from the European Union, saying that remaining in the EU “makes the most sense for jobs, trade and costs”. FT

- if they can't sell their cars they won't keep making them.

As n individual. You have constantly posted that those who are for Brexit are of low education and all sorts of other offensive insinuations.

And then you post the above.

Renault own Nissan do they ?

Less flapping your gums and a bit more education needed. DUNCE.

Maybe Cumgranosalum and his fellow arrogant friends, want to go back to before the Reform Act of 1832 and subsequent Reform acts that restricted voters to a narrow group of people. Preferably to those who agree with him.

The reform acts didn't restrict voting they expanded it, which is something the EU is committed to doing. I think what me and my "arrogant" friends would like is better all round education - it would mean we would have more people to have a constructive conversation...v the comments on degrees above! Only possible by someone without a degree.

[chiang mai]

The whole education/intelligence piece is a step too far for me, not necessary and not central or even related to the debate, I'm out.

[Kwasaki]

Let's face anyone who voices Nationalism or the absurd concept of going back" is to be regarded with the utmost suspicion

You sound really weird, people who vote IN, want to stay in for there own reasons and the for those wanting OUT have their's nothing suspicion about it.

With the kind person you sound like and believe me I've met a few in my time we can just agree to disagree.

[dick dasterdly]

Copied from the 'Obama recommends UK stays in EU' thread:

I'm on the fence about the EU as I like some parts of it, whilst disliking other parts. I'm only different in that my dislikes have little to do with immigration (big companies realised that un-skilled jobs could be taken over by cheaper, ,foreign people a long time ago - and proceeded to do exactly that).

Obama is just saying what nearly all the wealthy say - stay in the EU, which makes me v suspicious about their motives for saying this as I don't think for one second they're saying this because it will benefit the poor in the UK.

[Scotwight]

The whole education/intelligence piece is a step too far for me, not necessary and not central or even related to the debate, I'm out.

Sir Evelyn de Rothschild, who promoted his Europhile views in the letters pages of the Financial Times via a high-minded personal attack on Boris Johnson; and those previously Eurosceptic Conservative MPs who have decided, on second thoughts, to vote with the Prime Minister: a significantly higher proportion of them were privately educated than among the Tories campaigning for ‘leave’, who tend to be of a more below-the-salt grammar, state or minor-minor independent school persuasion, such as Chris Grayling, Steve Baker.....

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/to-believe-in-brexit-you-have-to-be-an-oik-like-me-or-michael-gove/

Toffs Hate Brexit: It’s The Peasants’ Revolt

Posh people may sympathise with a lot of the arguments for Brexit, but they’re still going to plump for Remain because they’ve decided being in favour of leaving is just a bit common.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/10/toffs-hate-brexit-its-the-peasants-revolt/

Edited April 24, 2016 by Scotwight

[cumgranosalum]

Copied from the 'Obama recommends UK stays in EU' thread:

I'm on the fence about the EU as I like some parts of it, whilst disliking other parts. I'm only different in that my dislikes have little to do with immigration (big companies realised that un-skilled jobs could be taken over by cheaper, ,foreign people a long time ago - and proceeded to do exactly that).

Obama is just saying what nearly all the wealthy say - stay in the EU, which makes me v suspicious about their motives for saying this as I don't think for one second they're saying this because it will benefit the poor in the UK.

Britain's obligations regrading immigration are for the most part outside the EU remit.........I'd hardly regard Corbyn & Co as lackeys of the rich

[cumgranosalum]

I worked in a neighbouring country for a while last year and the paperwork etc was daunting, but worst of all I couldn't take my car and property with me.....I think that those who work in Europe don't realise how that door will close for many of them.

[dick dasterdly]

Copied from the 'Obama recommends UK stays in EU' thread:

I'm on the fence about the EU as I like some parts of it, whilst disliking other parts. I'm only different in that my dislikes have little to do with immigration (big companies realised that un-skilled jobs could be taken over by cheaper, ,foreign people a long time ago - and proceeded to do exactly that).

Obama is just saying what nearly all the wealthy say - stay in the EU, which makes me v suspicious about their motives for saying this as I don't think for one second they're saying this because it will benefit the poor in the UK.

Britain's obligations regrading immigration are for the most part outside the EU remit.........I'd hardly regard Corbyn & Co as lackeys of the rich

I thought I made it clear that my EU dislikes have little to do with immigration?