SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[nontabury]

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it?

Answer is they aren't going badly

What planet are you living on?

[chiang mai]

I can't for the life of me remember which multinational company it was or even precisely when, but it was during an economic downturn in the US when they planned to lay off a substantial number of workers, their objective in that exercise was, no suicides.

So when you have a major major project that encompasses the scope and scale of the EU project, everyone's idea of what success and failure really means is relative.

[cumgranosalum]

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it?

Answer is they aren't going badly

What planet are you living on?

planet reality - not planet prejudice

[Grouse]

If Britain is stronger in the EU then how come things are going so badly for us after 43 years being part of it?

Answer is they aren't going badly

What planet are you living on?

This one I think.

Look at the historical data on multiple indices

UK seems to be, ahem, doing rather well?

[Grouse]

I was just thinking. This what I thunk

The USA is actually a federation of states. They have some central "federal" functions. However the individual stars have a high degree of autonomy for taxation and laws. Nevertheless they benefit from a single currency and free movement of labour

I think this idea would be good for Europe which is at least 50% larger and full of smart people!

[Linzz]

I was just thinking. This what I thunk

The USA is actually a federation of states. They have some central "federal" functions. However the individual stars have a high degree of autonomy for taxation and laws. Nevertheless they benefit from a single currency and free movement of labour

I think this idea would be good for Europe which is at least 50% larger and full of smart people!

Great theory but unlike the USA which is more or less a cohesive whole, where everyone shares the same language and immigrants have to learn English to assimilate as a requirement, the EU retains it's own cultures and language States which makes it dysfunctional. Likewise any groups that retain their distinctly different cultural differences and resist becoming part of the society they moved to makes economics unworkable. Therefore Europe cannot become a United States with different cultures and languages and you can't force people to assimilate, it's not good for economics

[Grouse]

OK, thanks for the rational response

Maybe we should look at a union of Northern European states that share similar languages then?

[cumgranosalum]

I was just thinking. This what I thunk

The USA is actually a federation of states. They have some central "federal" functions. However the individual stars have a high degree of autonomy for taxation and laws. Nevertheless they benefit from a single currency and free movement of labour

I think this idea would be good for Europe which is at least 50% larger and full of smart people!

Great theory but unlike the USA which is more or less a cohesive whole, where everyone shares the same language and immigrants have to learn English to assimilate as a requirement, the EU retains it's own cultures and language States which makes it dysfunctional. Likewise any groups that retain their distinctly different cultural differences and resist becoming part of the society they moved to makes economics unworkable. Therefore Europe cannot become a United States with different cultures and languages and you can't force people to assimilate, it's not good for economics

must be having a terrible time in Thailand then, what with the languages an'all.........

[rijit]

Obama comes out against leaving economists suggest the economy will shrink by a substantial figure .

Even slime ball Cameron says leaving a bad idea. Freedom of movement within the Ec needs addressing but leaving would be a totally stupid move and imo lead to unmitigated disaster taking an opened period to recover if we ever do.

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[cumgranosalum]

I love the way some "Brexiteers" have labelled pro EU arguments as "fear-mongering" - they overlook a couple of points - this isn't actually an argument against anything and for the most part those "fearful" predictions have a lot of reason behind them....... so if the Brexiteers get their way, to quote The Fly "Be afraid, be VERY afraid.

[Kwasaki]

Royal Britannia let England be free once more and be Great again.

Ostensibly, a warning that something dangerous is imminent. In reality, this is usually said with comic intent.

The thing being warned of is more likely to be mildly unwelcome than actually dangerous; for example,

"That fierce librarian was asking about your overdue books - be afraid, be very afraid."

[cumgranosalum]

Royal Britannia let England be free once more and be Great again.

Ostensibly, a warning that something dangerous is imminent. In reality, this is usually said with comic intent.

The thing being warned of is more likely to be mildly unwelcome than actually dangerous; for example,

"That fierce librarian was asking about your overdue books - be afraid, be very afraid."

I am well aware of the humour intended - it would appear though that you aren't - (have you never watched "The Fly"?) - as with "Royal Britannia let England be free once more and be Great again." - a misquote if ever I saw one....and a total lack of knowledge of history.....but then I guess it is to be expected....it would appear you still need to hone your skills with Google too.

[cumgranosalum]

Imo leaving would be totally the wrong thing. It would take years if not decades to repair the damage done to international trading relationships and could have huge economic repercussions including huge 'runs' on sterling.

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What a defeatist attitude. Especially when the facts show otherwise.ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1461155072.771625.jpg

...and the award for the most facile post of this thread goes to......

[Chicken George]

Yes

[cumgranosalum]

Yes

This seems to sum up perfectly the intellectual abilities of the average Brexiteer?

[nontabury]

Yes

This seems to sum up perfectly the intellectual abilities of the average Brexiteer?

I think it's more to do with wanting our country back,in order that it will not go down the pan further with the EU.

Economically it makes sense for the UK to decide it's own policies, regarding should we continue to make a charitable contribution of approximately 63million £'s per day to the EU. Should the UK restrict it's chances of making independent trade deals with the rest of the world.

Should the UK continue to allow it's democratic parliament to be subservient to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

I notice this week that the French trade minister has threatened the UK economy,that if we don't accept the present and Future arrangements with the EU, that they may start a trade war against us. I think the last Frenchman to make such a threat was Napoleon Bonaparte,and we know how that finished. Although to be fair to him I suspect that certain people on this thread are willing to adopt the French custom of carrying a white flag when they go to the polls.

[Grouse]

You are entitled to your own opinion

However, I do wish people would do at least a modicum of research before commenting

In what way is the UK going down the pan?

I think the country is doing rather well

We are also 9th of 10 net contributors per head by GDP

[Grouse]

A nice example of the strength issue of EU soft power is in the press today

Thai government is quaking at their fishing industry being red carded by EU

Just a little example but we could not do that alone

Do you see?

[nontabury]

Interestingly this week the Leadership of both the National Union of Students and the National Farmers Union have both come out in support of remaining in.

But do they speak for their membership, well it seems not,as in the case of the NUS their president,Algerian, Malia Bouattia who forgot to ask the rest of the students if they agreed with her, same as when she refused to condemn ISIS.

The NUS is now bombarding their membership with one sided biased information on membership of this so called Union,could this be because the NUS is also a member of the European Students Union,based in Brussels,obtaining their financial support from "Yes" you guessed right.

The NFU have been holding regional meetings,at which those that attended voted on this issue, from what I can gather those that did attend voted by a narrow margin to leave the EU, in spite of all the EU sponsored propaganda that has been aimed at them. Yet as earlier stated their leaders voted the other way.

[cumgranosalum]

Let's face anyone who voices Nationalism or the absurd concept of going back" is to be regarded with the utmost suspicion

[cumgranosalum]

Imo leaving would be totally the wrong thing. It would take years if not decades to repair the damage done to international trading relationships and could have huge economic repercussions including huge 'runs' on sterling.

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What a defeatist attitude. Especially when the facts show otherwise.ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1461155072.771625.jpg

This is basically an insult to those who died in both wars and those who then drew up the treaty of Rome so that sort of thing would never happen again in Europe.

You should be ashamed of yourself!

[sandyf]

I was just thinking. This what I thunk

The USA is actually a federation of states. They have some central "federal" functions. However the individual stars have a high degree of autonomy for taxation and laws. Nevertheless they benefit from a single currency and free movement of labour

I think this idea would be good for Europe which is at least 50% larger and full of smart people!

Great theory but unlike the USA which is more or less a cohesive whole, where everyone shares the same language and immigrants have to learn English to assimilate as a requirement, the EU retains it's own cultures and language States which makes it dysfunctional. Likewise any groups that retain their distinctly different cultural differences and resist becoming part of the society they moved to makes economics unworkable. Therefore Europe cannot become a United States with different cultures and languages and you can't force people to assimilate, it's not good for economics

Not always been that way, wasn't all other cultures and languages trampled into the ground.

Quite right, not a good comparison.

[ddavidovsky]

I'm tired of the debate. Give it a try. If it doesn't work, go back in again.

[Grouse]

I'm tired of the debate. Give it a try. If it doesn't work, go back in again.

Don't be silly

[cumgranosalum]

Yes

This seems to sum up perfectly the intellectual abilities of the average Brexiteer?

I think it's more to do with wanting our country back,in order that it will not go down the pan further with the EU.

Economically it makes sense for the UK to decide it's own policies, regarding should we continue to make a charitable contribution of approximately 63million £'s per day to the EU. Should the UK restrict it's chances of making independent trade deals with the rest of the world.

Should the UK continue to allow it's democratic parliament to be subservient to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

I notice this week that the French trade minister has threatened the UK economy,that if we don't accept the present and Future arrangements with the EU, that they may start a trade war against us. I think the last Frenchman to make such a threat was Napoleon Bonaparte,and we know how that finished. Although to be fair to him I suspect that certain people on this thread are willing to adopt the French custom of carrying a white flag when they go to the polls.

the Brexiteers seem to be getting more and more facile in their posts. too.

[ddavidovsky]

I'm tired of the debate. Give it a try. If it doesn't work, go back in again.

Don't be silly

I'm perfectly serious. Britain should opt out for a declared trial period and rejoin if necessary with conditions if it doesn't work out.

If people detect sufficient ill effects of leaving, then they will quickly swallow their pride and clamour to be back in. A change of government in future could take Britain back in, no trouble. Europe would of course welcome Britain back because it would be a moral victory for them and be some kind of proof their system has merit.

Until there is a true before and after comparision, who knows whether Europe is best?

[allanos]

Personally, I have my feet firmly planted in the "BREXIT" camp as opposed to being with the "BREMAIN"

brigade.

Why?

Because I think that although trade relationships are pretty strongly entrenched, and which in any

case was the original raison d'etre for the EC, politically-speaking there is potentially more doubt and

uncertainty going forward, than ever before. THAT is the unknown quantity, and it is indeed to be

feared, as, despite Cameron's insistances, the United Kingdom's sovereignty will be more and more

suborned to that of Europe's. What then, as the die will have been well and truly cast?

One simply doesn't know what this beast will look like in decades ahead, and the United Kingdom's minor

political role, which will diminish even more with the accession of Turkey and perhaps other nations as time

goes on, will just be a footnote in history, as the saying goes.

There is more certainty for the British in understanding and accommodating how their country is, and

has been, governed, than the future imponderables as to how the mandarins of Brussels, and the

suasion of the bigger voices like Germany and France, will steer the European Union going forward.

And Britain will be utterly powerless to change it, even if it wanted to.

Voting for BREXIT is a historic, and possibly unlikely-to-be-repeated opportunity, for the United

Kingdom to get out of this "club". Rather than the future being uncertain outside of Europe, it will have,

in my opinion, more certainty being and outside player and observer.

[cumgranosalum]

I'm tired of the debate. Give it a try. If it doesn't work, go back in again.

Don't be silly

I'm perfectly serious. Britain should opt out for a declared trial period and rejoin if necessary with conditions if it doesn't work out.

If people detect sufficient ill effects of leaving, then they will quickly swallow their pride and clamour to be back in. A change of government in future could take Britain back in, no trouble. Europe would of course welcome Britain back because it would be a moral victory for them and be some kind of proof their system has merit.

Until there is a true before and after comparision, who knows whether Europe is best?

I believe the real nature of the referendum is that it isn't binding...so there may well be some fudging after in the case of an "out" vote. They have 2 years to negotiate the exit and then have to renegotiate 40 years of trade deals we did with the EU. This may prove impossible. It is like that Boris will be PM and the amount of spin the tories will have to put on things will probably cost them an election - vote of confidence and the subsequent government - a labour or MoR coalition be claim a mandate to stop the exit.

Whatever happens the next fews years after an out vote will be a time when no party wants to be in government - Labour would be enacting something they have campaigned against, the Tories will be split.

the key to it all will be spin by the "out" brigade trying to suggest that the mess wasn't their fault.

[cumgranosalum]

Personally, I have my feet firmly planted in the "BREXIT" camp as opposed to being with the "BREMAIN"

brigade.

Why?

Because I think that although trade relationships are pretty strongly entrenched, and which in any

case was the original raison d'etre for the EC, politically-speaking there is potentially more doubt and

uncertainty going forward, than ever before. THAT is the unknown quantity, and it is indeed to be

feared, as, despite Cameron's insistances, the United Kingdom's sovereignty will be more and more

suborned to that of Europe's. What then, as the die will have been well and truly cast?

One simply doesn't know what this beast will look like in decades ahead, and the United Kingdom's minor

political role, which will diminish even more with the accession of Turkey and perhaps other nations as time

goes on, will just be a footnote in history, as the saying goes.

There is more certainty for the British in understanding and accommodating how their country is, and

has been, governed, than the future imponderables as to how the mandarins of Brussels, and the

suasion of the bigger voices like Germany and France, will steer the European Union going forward.

And Britain will be utterly powerless to change it, even if it wanted to.

Voting for BREXIT is a historic, and possibly unlikely-to-be-repeated opportunity, for the United

Kingdom to get out of this "club". Rather than the future being uncertain outside of Europe, it will have,

in my opinion, more certainty being and outside player and observer.

"THAT is the unknown quantity," - I'd say the EU is pretty predictable and "out" will be unpredictable - e.g. the motor industry.

UK motor industry has a huge section building cars for Europe - the Japanese are there because it allows them a foothold in the EU - without the trade agreement it will be easy for them to switch production to other plants in Europe now - so I fail to see how they can remain in UK - and that will include all the associated industries too.

The lack of exports to Europe will require the renegotiation of hundreds of complex trade agreements that UK was party to as an EU member - I can't see how the UK will avoid a massive rise in unemployment until this is sorted in 4,5, 10 years time, by which time the UK's key advantage will have to be cheap labour rates - easy enough to achieve in years to come with high unemployment and the end of free movement of labour for EU citizens around the EU.

again the above poster seems to have the inate fear or Germany......the UK economy is firstly set to overtake Germany's by 2020, and Germany at present are on OUR SIDE - WW2 is OVER! - but out of the EU they will NOT be on our side and will even be antagonistic.

te treaty of Rome was established precisely to eliminate over aggressive competitiveness and leaving the party will do nothing to avoid that.

[Andaman Al]

I would like to see the U.K. stay in the E.U. I am a U.K. citizen and on a purely personal view there are many reports that the British pound would tank by approx. 20% which would be extremely detrimental to my financies .

So short the pound then