New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[Orac]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

I think you are right in that the UK must look at the way it blames the EU for a lot of its own shortcomings and take a more responsible approach to its interactions.

[SheungWan]

Bookies odds follow the money not the majority ...

Clearly you are neither a bookie nor a mathematician or have heard of something called a form book in a horse race. Plus the idea that the bookies always win based purely on the amount of money placed is an error as well. As is the suggestion that the bookies in this two-horse race without form totally ignore poll feeds of their own. But you have special feed into how the majority are leaning do you? Well get straight down to the bookies and place that bet at 3:1 and put your shirt on it. (Note to others: they rarely do. Just talk)

Let's see .. shall we

Just had a chat with my retired bookie mate who said that in principle I was 'er...... wrong . But we couldn't resolve in practice re this special event why there wasn't a more coming together of the betting odds and the poll output ie why the smart money wasn't taking the 3/1 odds.

[WhamBam]

Vote LEAVE

For the sake of the NHS. It is being overwhelmed by immigrants claiming free health care and getting away with it. Hospitals are struggling. People with H.I.V., cancer and other serious problems are getting free care none have paid in to get.

For the sake of the likes of British Steel where thousands of jobs have also been lost because of E.U. rules saying our government cannot help the steel industry, yet the likes of France ignore similar rules.

To regain the ability to rule ourselves with our own laws. Since we joined the Common Market in 1973, over 50% of our laws are dictated to us by Brussels.

Just a few reasons to LEAVE

Wrong about steel. British government stopped penalty tariffs against China dumping steel so as keep friendly with the Chinese.

NHS is buoyed both by EU workers paying taxes and EU employees. Our government is failing to invest. Was at a hospital in Amsterdam today. Beautiful. No queues. UK hospitals are often shabby.

WRONG about UK laws. 13% originated in EU according to parliamentary library

Try and get some facts right?

BTW are you C2, D, or E?

Strange then, that those in the NHS complain of too many foreign people being treated for nothing.

also...

The House of Commons Library has warned that "there is no totally accurate, rational or useful way of calculating the percentage of national laws based on or influenced by the EU."

In agriculture, fisheries, external trade, and the environment, it’s fair to say that EU legislation and policy is indeed the main driver of UK law and policy, although the UK retains some freedom of action in these areas.

link....

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

The latest figure has been calculated by the campaign group Business for Britain, which says that 64.7% of UK law is influenced by the EU. It offers this as the "definitive" calculation, but also cautions that "any attempt to make sense of the numbers is highly subjective".

link...

https://fullfact.org/europe/two-thirds-uk-law-made-eu/

[Mosha]

Which side can afford to be wrong?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[chiang mai]

Perhaps you could then clarify what taxes he has paid ..

Even over 10 years it is a huge salary along with very generous benefits

An enormous pension

Why should his Lord and Lady be entitled to such salaries with the problems and unemployment in Europe ...

Why should the British Tax payer contribute to this ..

"Perhaps you could then clarify what taxes he has paid"

Based on your question and the posts, I'm guessing you're on the sauce.

Of course you don't have to answer ..

'Kinnock's 10 Million Pay Off and the EU secret bank accounts '

http://christophereverard.co.uk/kinnocks-10-million-pay-off-and-the-eu-secret-bank-accounts/

Please tell me that you haven't taken to reading web sites such as those and taking such things as gospel?

And you were so sensible not that long ago, how sad, was it the heat!

[allanos]

"A letter signed by 1,280 UK business leaders from 51 FTSE 100 companies has been published, backing the campaign to keep the UK in the EU. Remain campaigners have said that the letter, which was published in the Times, shows "unprecedented" support from across business and finance. Collectively, the companies on the list employ 1.75 million people".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-live-latest-poll-news-brexit-results-leave-remain-when-date-vote-odds-uk-britain-a7094741.html

One of the luminaries mentioned is Sir John Parker, of Anglo American. Listed on the FTSE and in Johannesburg.

Probably employing over 100 000 miners around the world.

However, those are not British miners, they are in Australia, South America, South Africa, so why is it important for the "Independent" to

talk about the 1.75m employees of those FTSE companies? It is a red herring.

It is axiomatic that most BIG businesses will want Britain to remain within the EU. However, the interests they are serving are totally

the opposite to what the average Brit is supporting; that is, Brexit.

[nontabury]

Where do we go after the vote, regardless of who wins, hmm!

Sandy mentioned his position and I agreed, seems others are now in the same mode. A divided UK and definitely, a divided TVF, but wasn't that always the case:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-polls-live-latest-results-brexit-remain-leave-divided-uk-britain-a7094831.html

Food for thought.

Good point,especially if Thai Visa is anything to go by. I've noticed a tendency by Some of the remain crowd to depict this Referendum as a vote between those who Think they have a higher education,and those They believe cannot think for themselves,added to this is their other tendency to suggest the vote is down to people voting according to their age group. Perhaps this is to do with the strategy off divide and conquere.

It will certainly be interesting how it plays out in the long run. If for example the remain side wins,how will those on the Brexit side feel and react when the EU pushes for even more control over what are now semi-independent countries. Will they meekly accept the deceit, as they did in 1973 or will they vote in a government that is strongly anti-EU.

Anyhow on a lighter note,or should that be a more serious note.-----

[churchill]

Perhaps you could then clarify what taxes he has paid ..

Even over 10 years it is a huge salary along with very generous benefits

An enormous pension

Why should his Lord and Lady be entitled to such salaries with the problems and unemployment in Europe ...

Why should the British Tax payer contribute to this ..

"Perhaps you could then clarify what taxes he has paid"

Based on your question and the posts, I'm guessing you're on the sauce.

Of course you don't have to answer ..

'Kinnock's 10 Million Pay Off and the EU secret bank accounts '

http://christophereverard.co.uk/kinnocks-10-million-pay-off-and-the-eu-secret-bank-accounts/

Please tell me that you haven't taken to reading web sites such as those and taking such things as gospel?

And you were so sensible not that long ago, how sad, was it the heat!

Ha Ha .. Not gospel but some truth ...

Still no answers .. never mind

[churchill]

Perhaps you could then clarify what taxes he has paid ..

Even over 10 years it is a huge salary along with very generous benefits

An enormous pension

Why should his Lord and Lady be entitled to such salaries with the problems and unemployment in Europe ...

Why should the British Tax payer contribute to this ..

"Perhaps you could then clarify what taxes he has paid"

Based on your question and the posts, I'm guessing you're on the sauce.

Of course you don't have to answer ..

'Kinnock's 10 Million Pay Off and the EU secret bank accounts '

http://christophereverard.co.uk/kinnocks-10-million-pay-off-and-the-eu-secret-bank-accounts/

Please tell me that you haven't taken to reading web sites such as those and taking such things as gospel?

And you were so sensible not that long ago, how sad, was it the heat!

Ha Ha .. Not gospel but some truth ...

Still no answers .. never mind

[allanos]

Of course it could survive but at what cost and for how long would it be before we got back to the today position, five years, ten years, twenty years.

No-one knows.

But I would rather take my chances in a big wide world of potentially 7.5 Billion customers than be hog tied to a Union with potentially 500 Million customers, purely on the basis of trade.

We wont mention the hidden costs of EU membership, they must be kept under the carpet at all costs.

Remember, too, that the EU "market" of (oft-quoted) 508 million souls, includes the United Kingdom with, say, 62 million people.

Consequently, the net EU population (excluding Turkey's 75 million still to come) is closer to 450 million.

[chiang mai]

"A letter signed by 1,280 UK business leaders from 51 FTSE 100 companies has been published, backing the campaign to keep the UK in the EU. Remain campaigners have said that the letter, which was published in the Times, shows "unprecedented" support from across business and finance. Collectively, the companies on the list employ 1.75 million people".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-live-latest-poll-news-brexit-results-leave-remain-when-date-vote-odds-uk-britain-a7094741.html

One of the luminaries mentioned is Sir John Parker, of Anglo American. Listed on the FTSE and in Johannesburg.

Probably employing over 100 000 miners around the world.

However, those are not British miners, they are in Australia, South America, South Africa, so why is it important for the "Independent" to

talk about the 1.75m employees of those FTSE companies? It is a red herring.

It is axiomatic that most BIG businesses will want Britain to remain within the EU. However, the interests they are serving are totally

the opposite to what the average Brit is supporting; that is, Brexit.

"are totally the opposite to what the average Brit is supporting; that is, Brexit".

How's the oxygen levels on your planet today, scarce it would seem.

[Jip99]

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)!

What has happened in the UK?

Immigration !!

[allanos]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

You seem to be living in the past! Old Masters, and a battle which took place in 1815, are a long way from the Brave New World we live in, today.

You would say the events of 1914-18, and 1939 - 45, proved that we Europeans are all in it together? It's an interesting take on history!

It is only geography which keeps us close to Europe. The world we live in today bears no resemblance to what has gone before. The comments

in your post do not support any argument for the United Kingdom to remain tied to the European Union.

Vermeer is a favourite of mine.

[allanos]

"A letter signed by 1,280 UK business leaders from 51 FTSE 100 companies has been published, backing the campaign to keep the UK in the EU. Remain campaigners have said that the letter, which was published in the Times, shows "unprecedented" support from across business and finance. Collectively, the companies on the list employ 1.75 million people".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-live-latest-poll-news-brexit-results-leave-remain-when-date-vote-odds-uk-britain-a7094741.html

One of the luminaries mentioned is Sir John Parker, of Anglo American. Listed on the FTSE and in Johannesburg.

Probably employing over 100 000 miners around the world.

However, those are not British miners, they are in Australia, South America, South Africa, so why is it important for the "Independent" to

talk about the 1.75m employees of those FTSE companies? It is a red herring.

It is axiomatic that most BIG businesses will want Britain to remain within the EU. However, the interests they are serving are totally

the opposite to what the average Brit is supporting; that is, Brexit.

"are totally the opposite to what the average Brit is supporting; that is, Brexit".

How's the oxygen levels on your planet today, scarce it would seem.

I have long noted your paucity of good argument, in favour of vacuous comment, on this forum.

At least you are consistent.

[nontabury]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

Idiotic and nasty

When you made this post at 1500 hrs, where exactly were you?

[Grouse]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

I think you are right in that the UK must look at the way it blames the EU for a lot of its own shortcomings and take a more responsible approach to its interactions.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect PRO1466601227.863425.jpg

WE COULD AND SHOULD BE LEADING THE EU NOT RUNNING AWAY!

[returnofthailand]

one day terrorists will get 5 stars hotel. if Europe continue like that, in 10 years there will be nothing left, only people with head and hands cut. is that what you want for our children.? sharia everywhere?

[nontabury]

David Cameron Nov 2015

If we were outside the EU altogether, we'd still be trading with all these countries.....

Sometimes theres a lot of scaremongering on all sides of this debate.

Of course the trading would still go on.

cameronbrexit.jpeg

And here we have The leader of H.M opposition.

[Orac]

one day terrorists will get 5 stars hotel. if Europe continue like that, in 10 years there will be nothing left, only people with head and hands cut. is that what you want for our children.? sharia everywhere?

Have you considered getting help for your paranoia?

[allanos]

one day terrorists will get 5 stars hotel. if Europe continue like that, in 10 years there will be nothing left, only people with head and hands cut. is that what you want for our children.? sharia everywhere?

Sharia Law?

There is a story told of two citizens of Riyadh, Abdul and Farouk , who hadn't seen each other for a while, bumping into each other

in the central market place.

Abdul has numerous stitches across the wrist of his left hand.

"How are you, Abdul", says Farouk, "and I see you won your appeal!"

[Grouse]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

Idiotic and nasty

When you made this post at 1500 hrs, where exactly were you?

Amsterdam, The Crown Plaza having breakfast.

[Grouse]

Right now I'm in the Grasshopper drinking pints of Heineken! ?

[Orac]

David Cameron Nov 2015

If we were outside the EU altogether, we'd still be trading with all these countries.....

Sometimes theres a lot of scaremongering on all sides of this debate.

Of course the trading would still go on.

cameronbrexit.jpeg

And here we have The leader of H.M opposition.

Pretty venal bunch these UK politicians - are you sure they are really to be trusted with all those extra powers that are supposedly going to be reclaimed from the EU?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/21/boris-johnson-eu-brexit-supports_n_9286400.html

[allanos]

David Cameron Nov 2015

If we were outside the EU altogether, we'd still be trading with all these countries.....

Sometimes theres a lot of scaremongering on all sides of this debate.

Of course the trading would still go on.

cameronbrexit.jpeg

And here we have The leader of H.M opposition.

Pretty venal bunch these UK politicians - are you sure they are really to be trusted with all those extra powers that are supposedly going to be reclaimed from the EU?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/21/boris-johnson-eu-brexit-supports_n_9286400.html

You are not wrong, and they do face pretty stiff competition from across the Channel, in Brussels.

[nontabury]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

Idiotic and nasty

When you made this post at 1500 hrs, where exactly were you?

Amsterdam, The Crown Plaza having breakfast.

Ah! I was just wondering when I could expect to hear of your lynching in All Saints Square,Rotherham.

[Grouse]

The EU version does not specifically state a requirement for the UK to join the euro or identify a treaty that covers it. It also runs to 2025 and not 2020.

I am sorry but using the excuse of 'too little time' to back up what is a major claim is not a reasonable response particularly since you have made it clear this information that you allude to is on the ECB website.

I meant that you would not have enough time to research considering the referendum is tomorrow. I have been watching and reading this for years.

Correct, the EU one runs to 2025. Phase 4 of the ECB starts in 2020.

I am only providing points of reference, what you do with them is up 2 you.

The U.K. Will NOT lose its rebate in 2020

The U.K. Will NOT be compelled to join the Euro in 2020

Just Brexit BS

[Grouse]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

Idiotic and nasty

When you made this post at 1500 hrs, where exactly were you?

Amsterdam, The Crown Plaza having breakfast.

Ah! I was just wondering when I could expect to hear of your lynching in All Saints Square,Rotherham.

I take that as a direct threat. Moderator?

[Grouse]

Workers of the UK......Get your country back..............Close the doors...........Use YOUR taxes for YOU and YOURS not for folk who have nothing to do with you workers....

The UK hi-so big money guys don't give a shit cos their cash is in the EU for sure.........Not thinking of you..

Times may be hard BUT YOU will have your contry back and UK business will prevail, why, cos that is their job, they ain't going to all commit suiside, their world is their oyster and always has been...

Be responsible!

Advise people to get an education

At least learn a trade

Then be able to compete

[stag4]

The EU has failed. The problem Europe has is it wont admit it has failed.

The idea belongs to yesterday and it should be scrapped.

The modern world trades across borders with few tariffs or restrictions.

World trade does not require open borders or mass migration.

It isn't necessary to destroy the culture of a country or its living

standards in order to be a successful global player.

Billions more will be wasted trying to make this unworkable

EU concept operate.

We need to get out of the mess because it is dragging us down.

The EU is not only inefficient it is now in danger of descending

Into chaos

We musy be a sovreign nation again

No free country is controlled by foreigners and we are a free people

[Orac]

Edited June 22, 2016 by Orac