CDC unfazed by Pheu Thai’s rejection of new constitution

[webfact]

CDC unfazed by Pheu Thai’s rejection of new constitution



BANGKOK, 20 June 2016 (NNT) - The Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) claims to be unworried about the recent announcement by Pheu Thai that it rejects the draft charter.

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The chairman also voiced his confidence that all trained volunteers will be able to offer genuine clarification to the public regarding the public referendum, the draft constitution, and the additional question which asks whether or not appointed senators should be allowed to join elected senators in the selection of the prime minister.

-- NNT 2016-06-20

[ramrod711]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

[Winniedapu]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

[ramrod711]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

So, in other words, you don't dispute that PTP are in an ideal position to know all about corruption. I may be unobservant but I did notice that you always substitute UDD for PTP and that you were first to mention Thaksin, I wonder why?

Edited June 20, 2016 by ramrod711

[Strangebrew]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

[halloween]

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

If you think the UDD is anything but a mercenary propagandist organisation set up and paid for by Thaksin then you are delusional. Of course PTP and UDD object to the new constitution, they are paid by the criminal it intends to exclude from Thai politics and follow his orders.

[Winniedapu]

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

If you think the UDD is anything but a mercenary propagandist organisation set up and paid for by Thaksin then you are delusional. Of course PTP and UDD object to the new constitution, they are paid by the criminal it intends to exclude from Thai politics and follow his orders.

Thank you. You can go now...

Winnie

[smutcakes]

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

If you think the UDD is anything but a mercenary propagandist organisation set up and paid for by Thaksin then you are delusional. Of course PTP and UDD object to the new constitution, they are paid by the criminal it intends to exclude from Thai politics and follow his orders.

At least the UDD and PTP are paid for privately. The military use public funds in being a mercenary propagandist organisation.

[halloween]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

[scorecard]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

No doubt correct, but you seem to suggest therefore it's all ok.

I'll put it another way; you unobservant if you believe the red thugs are not working hard to do anything they can devise to derail any form of reform.

[smutcakes]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

No doubt correct, but you seem to suggest therefore it's all ok.

I'll put it another way; you unobservant if you believe the red thugs are not working hard to do anything they can devise to derail any form of reform.

Ok so now you are blaming the complete lack of effort on reform on the red shirts to!

That is despite comments by the big boss Prawit in respect saying they are not going to reform the police!!

But no its the red shirts fault!

[mtls2005]

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

Groups? Oh, you mean both of them? Yellow and green?

Of course they will.

This chaps been involved in 3 or 4 constitutions so I doubt he'd be fazed by much.

Edited June 20, 2016 by mtls2005

[Winniedapu]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

No doubt correct, but you seem to suggest therefore it's all ok.

I'll put it another way; you unobservant if you believe the red thugs are not working hard to do anything they can devise to derail any form of reform.

Not suggesting anything, but thanks for putting words in my mouth...

W

[tuanku]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

Yes we are talking about democracy

No we have no intention of actually allowing a democracy to flourish.

We lie, all the time.

[tuanku]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

Nice use of an unjustifiable process to justify another equally unjustifiable process.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Of course they are not worried :

single ballot instead of two is even easier to cheat for the benefit of the Junta

[halloween]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

Nice use of an unjustifiable process to justify another equally unjustifiable process.

Well, given a choice of two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before. You should try it.

Whether an appointed senate, with representatives from business and professional associations is such a bad thing is a moot point.

Especially compared to the senate selection process in both Oz and the US where the numbers required to elect a senator vary hugely from state to state. "Unrepresentative swill" indeed. https://www.google.co.th/search?q=Unrepresentative+swill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=tYVnV9TxOcTuvATmoKXQBQ

[Srikcir]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

Nice use of an unjustifiable process to justify another equally unjustifiable process.

Well, given a choice of two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before. You should try it.

Whether an appointed senate, with representatives from business and professional associations is such a bad thing is a moot point.

Especially compared to the senate selection process in both Oz and the US where the numbers required to elect a senator vary hugely from state to state. "Unrepresentative swill" indeed. https://www.google.co.th/search?q=Unrepresentative+swill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=tYVnV9TxOcTuvATmoKXQBQ

It is a moot point when initially all the senators will be 100% selected by the NCPO and assigned to the groups that they will represent.

This is a pullback from the 2007 Constitution that at least provided for 50% to be elected.

Want to try something new? Have 100% of Senators elected.

[halloween]

Well, given a choice of two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before. You should try it.

Whether an appointed senate, with representatives from business and professional associations is such a bad thing is a moot point.

Especially compared to the senate selection process in both Oz and the US where the numbers required to elect a senator vary hugely from state to state. "Unrepresentative swill" indeed. https://www.google.co.th/search?q=Unrepresentative+swill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=tYVnV9TxOcTuvATmoKXQBQ

It is a moot point when initially all the senators will be 100% selected by the NCPO and assigned to the groups that they will represent.

This is a pullback from the 2007 Constitution that at least provided for 50% to be elected.

Want to try something new? Have 100% of Senators elected.

Initially - you do understand the word? That will change.

One of the functions of the senate is "To provide protection against a government, with a disciplined majority in the House of Representatives, introducing extreme measures for which it does not have broad community support." e.g. an amnesty for their crimes.

Another is "To probe and check the administration of the laws, to keep itself and the public informed, and to insist on ministerial accountability for the government’s administration." e.g. fake G2G rice deals and the failure to curtail the rice scam

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/odgers/chap0107

Can you give me any reason why a 100% elected senate would perform these functions better, or even NOT WORSE? As one of the main reasons for elected senates is to have equal numbers from each state to protect state's rights, and Thailand doesn't have state governments, why should we have elected senators other than some vague claim of democracy because that's how they did it back home.

[tbthailand]

of course the CDC is "unfazed", ... they never expected nor cared about their approval...

[tbthailand]

^^ junta justification...

Nothing to do with reality, just hot air...

[halloween]

^^ junta justification...

Nothing to do with reality, just hot air...

The depth of your insight and the intellectual power of your argument leaves me speechless.

[Smarter Than You]

Well, given a choice of two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before. You should try it.

Whether an appointed senate, with representatives from business and professional associations is such a bad thing is a moot point.

Especially compared to the senate selection process in both Oz and the US where the numbers required to elect a senator vary hugely from state to state. "Unrepresentative swill" indeed. https://www.google.co.th/search?q=Unrepresentative+swill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=tYVnV9TxOcTuvATmoKXQBQ

It is a moot point when initially all the senators will be 100% selected by the NCPO and assigned to the groups that they will represent.

This is a pullback from the 2007 Constitution that at least provided for 50% to be elected.

Want to try something new? Have 100% of Senators elected.

Initially - you do understand the word? That will change.

One of the functions of the senate is "To provide protection against a government, with a disciplined majority in the House of Representatives, introducing extreme measures for which it does not have broad community support." e.g. an amnesty for their crimes.

Another is "To probe and check the administration of the laws, to keep itself and the public informed, and to insist on ministerial accountability for the government’s administration." e.g. fake G2G rice deals and the failure to curtail the rice scam

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/odgers/chap0107

Can you give me any reason why a 100% elected senate would perform these functions better, or even NOT WORSE? As one of the main reasons for elected senates is to have equal numbers from each state to protect state's rights, and Thailand doesn't have state governments, why should we have elected senators other than some vague claim of democracy because that's how they did it back home.

Without being too facetious, I truly wonder about your level of education.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as too provocative or insulting, but you must be either very, very simple or incredibly prejudiced bordering on fascist to write the things you write.

"Why would a 100% elected Senate perform these functions better" you ask.

It begs the follow up question "Why would a 100% elected lower house perform their functions better than an unelected coup government?"

Guess the best thing to do is to do away with democracy altogether.

Would that make you happy?

(I think it would)

BTW: Thailand has 76 provinces, after the last coup the Senate composition was altered by the Generals to consist of 1 Senator from each province and 74 "appointed" Senators.

There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day, but that is not the aim of the current rulers. They want a system that perpetuates their control of the state and for some unfathomable reason you support this.

How sad.

[sjaak327]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

Those party list MP's are of course still accountable to the electorate. How do you suppose those 125 party list MP's got there in the first place ?

If the electorate wouldn't vote for say PT, they wouldn't have any party list MP's in parliament. I don't understand this issue, in my country the party list system IS the only system, and in fact, I believe Thailand should follow suit and abandon the constituency system. Popular vote ensures no votes are lost and doesn't need the convoluted way they are now trying to prevent those votes being lost in the draft constitution.

The poster you responded to, has a thorough understanding of the draft and the reasons behind it. Too bad some people still haven't understood, or worse refuse to understand. Democracy the draft won't bring, that much is perfectly clear, except for a tiny number of Junta supporters.

The appointed senators, having far reaching powers, are there for one reason, and one reason only. They are an instrument for the people that are at the front and behind the current coup government as a way to sidestep the electorate, nothing more and nothing less. This has nothing to do with democracy.

By the way, I am amazed at Meechai being unfazed by the rejection of the draft by the two most popular political parties, good for over 83% of the popular vote at the last general election. Maybe that cheating center is actually needed, how else are they going to get a yes vote ?

Edited June 20, 2016 by sjaak327

[Winniedapu]

At a press conference, Constitution Drafting Commission (CDC) chairman Meechai Ruchupan talked about Pheu Thai Party’s stance opposing the draft constitution, saying the party is entitled to its own opinions as long as its expressions are in compliance with law. He said the drafting body isn't concerned about the attempt to set up an anti-corruption center, while calling on the general public to be careful when consuming new information.

The idea of PTP setting up an anti-corruption center is not totally ridiculous. They know all the tricks, the ins and outs, the scams and their patrons are famously corrupt. If you want someone with extensive experience PTP could be the best money can buy.

But but but... Thaksin

If you seriously think the UDD is different from any of the other pressure groups or political parties in Thailand, then you just haven't been paying attention. Thailand is almost entirely based on crookedness, theft, fraud and corruption, there are huge amounts of evidence of this permeating Thailand's society from bottom to top..

If you can't see this then you must be really unobservant.

Winnie.

So, in other words, you don't dispute that PTP are in an ideal position to know all about corruption. I may be unobservant but I did notice that you always substitute UDD for PTP and that you were first to mention Thaksin, I wonder why?

Straw man argument. What you attribute to me does not follow from what I actually said, which you can plainly see. If you are going to have a discussion about serious matters, then dodgy discussion tactics and deceit are not the way to go.

Winnie

[halloween]

Initially - you do understand the word? That will change.

One of the functions of the senate is "To provide protection against a government, with a disciplined majority in the House of Representatives, introducing extreme measures for which it does not have broad community support." e.g. an amnesty for their crimes.

Another is "To probe and check the administration of the laws, to keep itself and the public informed, and to insist on ministerial accountability for the government’s administration." e.g. fake G2G rice deals and the failure to curtail the rice scam

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/odgers/chap0107

Can you give me any reason why a 100% elected senate would perform these functions better, or even NOT WORSE? As one of the main reasons for elected senates is to have equal numbers from each state to protect state's rights, and Thailand doesn't have state governments, why should we have elected senators other than some vague claim of democracy because that's how they did it back home.

Without being too facetious, I truly wonder about your level of education.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as too provocative or insulting, but you must be either very, very simple or incredibly prejudiced bordering on fascist to write the things you write.

"Why would a 100% elected Senate perform these functions better" you ask.

It begs the follow up question "Why would a 100% elected lower house perform their functions better than an unelected coup government?"

Guess the best thing to do is to do away with democracy altogether.

Would that make you happy?

(I think it would)

BTW: Thailand has 76 provinces, after the last coup the Senate composition was altered by the Generals to consist of 1 Senator from each province and 74 "appointed" Senators.

There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day, but that is not the aim of the current rulers. They want a system that perpetuates their control of the state and for some unfathomable reason you support this.

How sad.

After the insults, you want a "follow up question" without bothering with an answer first? Is that normal where you come from?

Despite your username you seem to miss the bleeding obvious. Senators that ARE NOT party affiliated with government (and in PTP's case that means being paid to be members of the party and toe the party line) are MUCH more likely to vote against the party in the 2 functions of the senate I gave. Did that not occur to you?

As to your fatuous claim 'There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day' why don't you give us ONE?

The unfathomable reason (you must be a length short in your rope) is that I would like to see a senate that fulfills its functions rather than appealing to some unjustified claims of democracy.

[halloween]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

Those party list MP's are of course still accountable to the electorate. How do you suppose those 125 party list MP's got there in the first place ?

If the electorate wouldn't vote for say PT, they wouldn't have any party list MP's in parliament. I don't understand this issue, in my country the party list system IS the only system, and in fact, I believe Thailand should follow suit and abandon the constituency system. Popular vote ensures no votes are lost and doesn't need the convoluted way they are now trying to prevent those votes being lost in the draft constitution.

The poster you responded to, has a thorough understanding of the draft and the reasons behind it. Too bad some people still haven't understood, or worse refuse to understand. Democracy the draft won't bring, that much is perfectly clear, except for a tiny number of Junta supporters.

The appointed senators, having far reaching powers, are there for one reason, and one reason only. They are an instrument for the people that are at the front and behind the current coup government as a way to sidestep the electorate, nothing more and nothing less. This has nothing to do with democracy.

By the way, I am amazed at Meechai being unfazed by the rejection of the draft by the two most popular political parties, good for over 83% of the popular vote at the last general election. Maybe that cheating center is actually needed, how else are they going to get a yes vote ?

Really? I mean really??? You think every voter checks the party list of each candidate, and that it would sway opinion/votes away from an otherwise popular candidate? How many voters do think actually said to themselves "Chalerm! Yes, he's my choice for DPM." Perhaps a party list only system might work that way, but the combined does not IMHO.

I have put my views of the senate selection in another post. If you wish to refute them, feel free to do so in a reply to that post. Saves me repeating myself.

[sjaak327]

We are talking about setting up a Democracy aren't we? Senators should be elected not appointed That way they are accountable to the people not to who appointed them. I'm so confused.

You think that appointed senators won't be outstanding representatives of the groups they represent?

If not being directly elected is a problem for you, what do you think of the 125 MPs appointed by party list? Who are they accountable to? While thinking about that, consider that on PTP's last party list, #1 was a wealthy person, with no political experience, buying office, #2 was Chalerm, and things didn't improve much as it went on to Jatuporn, Weng, Nattuwut, Arisman's wife because he was hiding in Cambodia and other notables facing serious criminal charges. Who WERE they accountable to?

Those party list MP's are of course still accountable to the electorate. How do you suppose those 125 party list MP's got there in the first place ?

If the electorate wouldn't vote for say PT, they wouldn't have any party list MP's in parliament. I don't understand this issue, in my country the party list system IS the only system, and in fact, I believe Thailand should follow suit and abandon the constituency system. Popular vote ensures no votes are lost and doesn't need the convoluted way they are now trying to prevent those votes being lost in the draft constitution.

The poster you responded to, has a thorough understanding of the draft and the reasons behind it. Too bad some people still haven't understood, or worse refuse to understand. Democracy the draft won't bring, that much is perfectly clear, except for a tiny number of Junta supporters.

The appointed senators, having far reaching powers, are there for one reason, and one reason only. They are an instrument for the people that are at the front and behind the current coup government as a way to sidestep the electorate, nothing more and nothing less. This has nothing to do with democracy.

By the way, I am amazed at Meechai being unfazed by the rejection of the draft by the two most popular political parties, good for over 83% of the popular vote at the last general election. Maybe that cheating center is actually needed, how else are they going to get a yes vote ?

Really? I mean really??? You think every voter checks the party list of each candidate, and that it would sway opinion/votes away from an otherwise popular candidate? How many voters do think actually said to themselves "Chalerm! Yes, he's my choice for DPM." Perhaps a party list only system might work that way, but the combined does not IMHO.

I have put my views of the senate selection in another post. If you wish to refute them, feel free to do so in a reply to that post. Saves me repeating myself.

By all means don't repeat yourself. It certainly wasn't a rebuttal worth repeating. As to your first remark, if voters don't vote for a party, how does the guy you mention ever get elected ? The party list system is employed in many countries the world over, and you're the first to ever claim those candidates are not accountable.

[sjaak327]

Initially - you do understand the word? That will change.

One of the functions of the senate is "To provide protection against a government, with a disciplined majority in the House of Representatives, introducing extreme measures for which it does not have broad community support." e.g. an amnesty for their crimes.

Another is "To probe and check the administration of the laws, to keep itself and the public informed, and to insist on ministerial accountability for the governments administration." e.g. fake G2G rice deals and the failure to curtail the rice scam

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/odgers/chap0107

Can you give me any reason why a 100% elected senate would perform these functions better, or even NOT WORSE? As one of the main reasons for elected senates is to have equal numbers from each state to protect state's rights, and Thailand doesn't have state governments, why should we have elected senators other than some vague claim of democracy because that's how they did it back home.

Without being too facetious, I truly wonder about your level of education.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as too provocative or insulting, but you must be either very, very simple or incredibly prejudiced bordering on fascist to write the things you write.

"Why would a 100% elected Senate perform these functions better" you ask.

It begs the follow up question "Why would a 100% elected lower house perform their functions better than an unelected coup government?"

Guess the best thing to do is to do away with democracy altogether.

Would that make you happy?

(I think it would)

BTW: Thailand has 76 provinces, after the last coup the Senate composition was altered by the Generals to consist of 1 Senator from each province and 74 "appointed" Senators.

There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day, but that is not the aim of the current rulers. They want a system that perpetuates their control of the state and for some unfathomable reason you support this.

How sad.

After the insults, you want a "follow up question" without bothering with an answer first? Is that normal where you come from?

Despite your username you seem to miss the bleeding obvious. Senators that ARE NOT party affiliated with government (and in PTP's case that means being paid to be members of the party and toe the party line) are MUCH more likely to vote against the party in the 2 functions of the senate I gave. Did that not occur to you?

As to your fatuous claim 'There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day' why don't you give us ONE?

The unfathomable reason (you must be a length short in your rope) is that I would like to see a senate that fulfills its functions rather than appealing to some unjustified claims of democracy.

But the claims are justified in this instance, the senate as envisioned by the draft constitution has far reaching powers, including the right to have the government packing. In such a case, those senators have to be elected, either directly or indirectly.

[halloween]

Initially - you do understand the word? That will change.

One of the functions of the senate is "To provide protection against a government, with a disciplined majority in the House of Representatives, introducing extreme measures for which it does not have broad community support." e.g. an amnesty for their crimes.

Another is "To probe and check the administration of the laws, to keep itself and the public informed, and to insist on ministerial accountability for the governments administration." e.g. fake G2G rice deals and the failure to curtail the rice scam

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/odgers/chap0107

Can you give me any reason why a 100% elected senate would perform these functions better, or even NOT WORSE? As one of the main reasons for elected senates is to have equal numbers from each state to protect state's rights, and Thailand doesn't have state governments, why should we have elected senators other than some vague claim of democracy because that's how they did it back home.

Without being too facetious, I truly wonder about your level of education.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as too provocative or insulting, but you must be either very, very simple or incredibly prejudiced bordering on fascist to write the things you write.

"Why would a 100% elected Senate perform these functions better" you ask.

It begs the follow up question "Why would a 100% elected lower house perform their functions better than an unelected coup government?"

Guess the best thing to do is to do away with democracy altogether.

Would that make you happy?

(I think it would)

BTW: Thailand has 76 provinces, after the last coup the Senate composition was altered by the Generals to consist of 1 Senator from each province and 74 "appointed" Senators.

There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day, but that is not the aim of the current rulers. They want a system that perpetuates their control of the state and for some unfathomable reason you support this.

How sad.

After the insults, you want a "follow up question" without bothering with an answer first? Is that normal where you come from?

Despite your username you seem to miss the bleeding obvious. Senators that ARE NOT party affiliated with government (and in PTP's case that means being paid to be members of the party and toe the party line) are MUCH more likely to vote against the party in the 2 functions of the senate I gave. Did that not occur to you?

As to your fatuous claim 'There are plenty of fair ways to establish a system of elected Senators to act as a check on the government of the day' why don't you give us ONE?

The unfathomable reason (you must be a length short in your rope) is that I would like to see a senate that fulfills its functions rather than appealing to some unjustified claims of democracy.

But the claims are justified in this instance, the senate as envisioned by the draft constitution has far reaching powers, including the right to have the government packing. In such a case, those senators have to be elected, either directly or indirectly.

In your opinion. I notice that you don't wish to talk about the ACTUAL functions of a senate though. why is that?