E-cigarettes - "light up" and face years in jail

[SOTIRIOS]

...but they are going to legalize amphetamines....???

...are these all 'business decisions'....???

[Thingamabob]

This is about the Thai government protecting the market dominance of the Thai Tobacco Monopoly, nothing else.

[retarius]

The country is upside down. It has lost its moral compass along with its wits. Why not make everything illegal? How about the air we breathe? There is no law that says it is against the law to breathe air in, but the air hasn't had VAT on it and it has been imported from around the globe. People must face 5 years in jail.

5 years for an e-ciggy. No years for killing a cop with your Ferrari; no years for driving your Honda on the highway with no license at age 16 and texting at the same time and killing 9 people in the process; no years stealing $40 million while being a monk. Justice is upside down.

[Hammock]

Smoking or vaping nicotine almost guarantees early death from cancer. Nicotine is cancerogenic in any form. Quit this last century and not fashionable habit now. In China it seems like 99% of men smoke but women less, in Russia it looks like women smoke even more than men.

The word you're looking for is "carcinogenic" and you are completely wrong - nicotine on it's own is generally agreed to NOT be carcinogenic and has actually been shown to have possible health benefits like reducing the likelihood of Alzheimer's and other neurological conditions in later life. Just google it. It's all the tar and nasty chemicals in the smoke that makes cigarettes carcinogenic, not the nicotine.

Please get your facts straight before posting in public. Spreading your "opinion" without first checking the facts is a highly irresponsible activity that does not benefit anyone.

Google is full of articles confirming carcinogenic properties of nicotine.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/278265.php

You can do your own search on this subjects just as a matter of interest before making conclusions.

Two points is this article first it was written back in 2014 and secondly it is from the USA.

Google recent medical research articles on vaping from the UK and you will find very few negative studies.

Google is full of articles confirming a belief that Radical Islamic jihad is the way to go, the world is flat, no planes hit the twin towers and 9/11 was faked, that Jesus rose from the dead, or even Mohammad flew from Mecca to Jerusalem on a winged horse. You need to look at where the evidence comes from.

I believe that nicotine has carcinogenic properties, it's my own opinion based on materials which I read, if someone thinks differently, this is his right and his own health. Ecig in my opinion can be a choice to reduce daily intake of poisons to people wishing to quit. Many people quit smoking completely switching from analog to electronic version. Wishing everyone good health.

[mommysboy]

For those who need their nicotine E-cigarettes is a much healthier way to take it rather via normal tobacco cigarettes with all the associated health problems.

Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic but just about everything else in a tobacco cigarette is. E-Cigarettes are encouraged in some countries in preference to tobacco cigarettes which kill people. But no not in Thailand, it is more important to collect tax rather than save lives.

From the American Lung Association: http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/e-cigarettes-and-lung-health.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.th/

Starting in August 2016, FDA will begin to apply and enforce key provisions of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act as it relates to the sales, marketing and manufacturing of e-cigarettes.

We don't presently know what is in e-cigarettes. However, in initial lab tests conducted in 2009 the FDA found detectable levels of toxic cancer-causing chemicals, including an ingredient used in anti-freeze, in two leading brands of e-cigarettes and 18 various cartridges. A review of studies found that levels of toxins in e-cigarette aerosol varied considerably within and between brands. A 2014 study found that aerosol from e-cigarettes with a higher voltage level contains more formaldehyde, another carcinogen with the potential to cause cancer. The findings are alarming, and underscores why the American Lung Association called so urgently for FDA oversight of these products.

Flavors in e-cigarettes are also a cause for concern. Not only are flavors used to target kids, but they may be harmful on their own. E-cigarette and flavor manufacturers and marketers may suggest that the flavor ingredients used in e-cigarettes are safe because they have FEMA GRASTM status for use in food, but such statements are false and misleading. The reality is that FEMA GRASTM status only applies to food, meaning it's safe to eat, and does not apply to inhaling through e-cigarettes.

Diacetyl, a buttery flavored chemical often added to food products such as popcorn, caramel, and dairy products, has also been found in some e-cigarettes with flavors. Diacetyl can cause a serious and irreversible lung disease commonly known as "popcorn lung."⁴

Poisoning concern

Aside from concerns about e-cigarette use and emissions alone, data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that calls to the nation's poison centers for e-cigarette exposure poisonings are rapidly increasing. One study found that while most calls involving e-cigarette liquid poisoning came from accidental ingestion of the e-cigarette or its liquid, about one-sixth of the calls related to someone inhaling these items. Exposure through the eye and the skin were also reported.

This has been thoroughly debunked. In addition any chemicals in e-cigarettes are of a magnitude 100-1000 times lower than conventional cigarettes.

Anti-freeze ingredients have never been found in e-liquid.

Basically, you have a 'framed' test designed to burn at a higher voltage than could possibly be ingested. When too hot, the result is a 'dry puff' which tastes foul and would induce an immediate severe cough.

Diacetyl is present in cigarettes at an average 100 times higher than e-cigarettes, and conventional smoking is not associated with popcorn lung.

E-cigarettes do cause some lung and throat irritation, and nicotine is a poison. It is not the prime mover in cigarette related deaths: it is what hooks people on to smoking.

Recent studies have suggested that ecigarettes can result in gene mutations, however, these are lab studies that could not be replicated in actual usage. Basically samples were subjected to a level of exposure that would translate to continuous heavy, non stop usage.

E-cigarettes are now licenced in the UK, and available on the NHS (National Health Service). Influential UK bodies estimate that up to 5 million lives could be saved worldwide. They estimate 95% safer than cigarettes. But do point out that there are no long term studies to prove that it is harmless, as it is a new phenomena.

There have been reports of exploding batteries which can cause severe burns. These are usually associated with modified batteries, or misuse.

[Hammock]

vaping fumes from burning some unknown liquids produced in China without any licences is simply dangerous. These "manufacturers" can put anything they want in these bottles and you will never know. The least thing they care is the vapers health.

[Stuart21]

Are the tobacco companies pulling a few strings. I thought people turn to E cig in a bid to kick the nicotine habit.

Odds on.

[GAZZPA]

Are they for real?

So, you can pay 500 baht fine for kicking the bejesus out of someone when your pissed and merrily trot off home but light up a E cigarette and get 5 years in the monkey house!?

Could this be related to the huge revenues from tax on tobacco? And the recent huge increase on the tax of tobacco?

The solution to this is simple, create an import duty tax for the item and / or a tax on selling locally manufactured ones. They can also tax the refills as well,,

I wish someone in the "office" would wake up, engage their brain and stop making such bloody fools of the government.

[Siamwhiteelephant]

In the end this steep jail sentence for using E-cigarettes makes perfectly logical sense considering the same mentality that pixelates video footage I've seen of smoking but not the horrendous blood and guts gore of someone killed. Likewise, the other bizarre or outrageous end results, through money obsession, can be rationalized, such as by the police not investigating a crime properly when no money is up for grabs in it and allowing certain crimes to thrive when there is money in it for them, underpaying staff or skimping on work conditions expenditure so as to finance the boss’s new car or trip abroad, businesses compromising safety by financially cutting corners, laws permitting businesses and farmers' usage for their products certain cheaper but unsafe chemicals banned in developed countries, the very long waiting outpatient queues in many public hospitals, the road maintenance procrastinations or ad hoc inadequate patching up of broken footpaths and roads, driving without headlights on at night, the plan to include everyone’s income on their ID card, the numerous scams, piracy and fakes, the bait and switch tactics occasionally used by sales people, the sometimes poor customer service, and charging foreigners certain fees and prices several times higher than Thais.

[Bangkok Barry]

So it's ok for Hiso families to drive around drunk killing innocents and getting virtually Scott free but you light up an artifice bunger and you 5 years in the slammer.

What's wrong with this picture Thailand ?

You don't even have to light up. Just having one in your pocket is enough to get you jailed. In theory. But, as we all know, that will never happen. Unless a BIB needs a little extra cash.

[Chicog]

They are banned in many Gulf countries as well, allegedly because they encourage young children to smoke.

But of course this is actually a load of bollax and just an excuse to protect tobacco tax revenue.

[GAZZPA]

vaping fumes from burning some unknown liquids produced in China without any licences is simply dangerous. These "manufacturers" can put anything they want in these bottles and you will never know. The least thing they care is the vapers health.

Absolutely right. There needs to be some real, scientific work down to classify the e cigarettes and ensure people are well informed of the dangers, if any.

Until there is real legislation, as there is with tobacco then you really have no idea what is in the liquid refill, very scary.

[DrTuner]

vaping fumes from burning some unknown liquids produced in China without any licences is simply dangerous. These "manufacturers" can put anything they want in these bottles and you will never know. The least thing they care is the vapers health.

That is correct and Thais are making things worse by not allowing the local juice industry to develop. Newbie vapers might not know this, breathing in who knows what made in some Schenzen backalley.

Many western countries have local juiceshops, which fully disclose what ingredients are used. While most ingredients are meant for ingestion as food, there's no studies how breathing vapor with flavorings affects people. I suppose some will be made later, but I haven't heard of mass deaths at candy factories so far.

[shawn000]

For those who need their nicotine E-cigarettes is a much healthier way to take it rather via normal tobacco cigarettes with all the associated health problems.

Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic but just about everything else in a tobacco cigarette is. E-Cigarettes are encouraged in some countries in preference to tobacco cigarettes which kill people. But no not in Thailand, it is more important to collect tax rather than save lives.

From the American Lung Association: http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/e-cigarettes-and-lung-health.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.th/

Starting in August 2016, FDA will begin to apply and enforce key provisions of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act as it relates to the sales, marketing and manufacturing of e-cigarettes.

We don't presently know what is in e-cigarettes. However, in initial lab tests conducted in 2009 the FDA found detectable levels of toxic cancer-causing chemicals, including an ingredient used in anti-freeze, in two leading brands of e-cigarettes and 18 various cartridges. A review of studies found that levels of toxins in e-cigarette aerosol varied considerably within and between brands. A 2014 study found that aerosol from e-cigarettes with a higher voltage level contains more formaldehyde, another carcinogen with the potential to cause cancer. The findings are alarming, and underscores why the American Lung Association called so urgently for FDA oversight of these products.

Flavors in e-cigarettes are also a cause for concern. Not only are flavors used to target kids, but they may be harmful on their own. E-cigarette and flavor manufacturers and marketers may suggest that the flavor ingredients used in e-cigarettes are safe because they have FEMA GRASTM status for use in food, but such statements are false and misleading. The reality is that FEMA GRASTM status only applies to food, meaning it's safe to eat, and does not apply to inhaling through e-cigarettes.

Diacetyl, a buttery flavored chemical often added to food products such as popcorn, caramel, and dairy products, has also been found in some e-cigarettes with flavors. Diacetyl can cause a serious and irreversible lung disease commonly known as "popcorn lung."⁴

Poisoning concern

Aside from concerns about e-cigarette use and emissions alone, data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that calls to the nation's poison centers for e-cigarette exposure poisonings are rapidly increasing. One study found that while most calls involving e-cigarette liquid poisoning came from accidental ingestion of the e-cigarette or its liquid, about one-sixth of the calls related to someone inhaling these items. Exposure through the eye and the skin were also reported.

This has been thoroughly debunked. In addition any chemicals in e-cigarettes are of a magnitude 100-1000 times lower than conventional cigarettes.

Anti-freeze ingredients have never been found in e-liquid.

Basically, you have a 'framed' test designed to burn at a higher voltage than could possibly be ingested. When too hot, the result is a 'dry puff' which tastes foul and would induce an immediate severe cough.

Diacetyl is present in cigarettes at an average 100 times higher than e-cigarettes, and conventional smoking is not associated with popcorn lung.

E-cigarettes do cause some lung and throat irritation, and nicotine is a poison. It is not the prime mover in cigarette related deaths: it is what hooks people on to smoking.

Recent studies have suggested that ecigarettes can result in gene mutations, however, these are lab studies that could not be replicated in actual usage. Basically samples were subjected to a level of exposure that would translate to continuous heavy, non stop usage.

E-cigarettes are now licenced in the UK, and available on the NHS (National Health Service). Influential UK bodies estimate that up to 5 million lives could be saved worldwide. They estimate 95% safer than cigarettes. But do point out that there are no long term studies to prove that it is harmless, as it is a new phenomena.

There have been reports of exploding batteries which can cause severe burns. These are usually associated with modified batteries, or misuse.

Diethylene glycol has been found in E-liquid, once, and in small quantities, small quantities are all it takes though, it is extremely dangerous stuff. There have been no further cases of diethylene glycol being found but due to the similarity in name and the fact that propylene glycol can also be used as antifreeze, many have become mislead into believing that all e-liquid contains dangerous antifreeze.

[Songlaw]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

[piraterum]

Come to Thailand on vacation with an e-cig and stay 5 years in jail. REALLY! All it takes is one father of 3 trying to quit smoking and your country image is shattered worse than it is now. Get your head out of your $&@.

[DrTuner]

These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough

Yes they can, yes they are. Even the cheapest variable wattage mods have overcharging and short circuit protection, with the correct airflow inside to keep the battery temperatures in check. Buy authentic and not knock-offs.

Unless you are talking of the e-liquid, which is not a part of the "device", unless it's one of those archaic ciggy looking thingies.

[SiSePuede419]

"Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes..."

So, basically they're saying they don't understand the basic legal concept of "safe harbor"...

[MrTee]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?

I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.

Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection

[DrTuner]

Here's a video of what happens when a popular model of the batteries used in vaping mods are forcibly short circuited:

[pistachios]

But that is actually all true.

The FDA found diethylene glycol in some E-cigs, the extremely toxic form of antifreeze, the normal ingredient is propylene glycol, also an antifreeze ingredient, but the eco-antifreeze that is food safe, nothing false or misleading about catching out those unscrupulous manufacturers unless you were to become confused between the two antifreezes.

It is true that the higher the voltage the higher the formaldehyde, and it is true that this is a carcinogen with the potential to cause cancer, whether any E-cig ever has a high enough voltage to release a dangerous level is not stated, therefor it is not actually false nor misleading unless the reader was to jump to conclusions.

The flavors may not be designed purposely to attract children, but the flavors have been demonstrated to have a design that does attract children, in controlled studies it has been shown that children are more likely to be attracted to trying an E-cig if it flavored with candy. I do not see anything false or misleading in this statement, it is clearly irresponsible to use childlike flavors such as gummy-bears and candyfloss for a highly addictive product.

Diacetyl does cause the condition known as popcorn lung, it is also found in some E-cig flavors, the fact that it is in 100 times lower concentrations that in a regular cigarette is irrelevant, as is the fact that the only people who seem to have developed pop corn lung as a direct result of diacetyl exposure have been people working in factories exposed to massive doses.

You might note their careful wording, no chance of a prosecution there as they rely on the reader to read between the lines in order to be misled.

The FDA scary report comes from a single study in which the procedure was made by someone who didn't know anything about standard e cigarette usage. The cotton used in the device was getting burned and of course releasing nasty stuff. Nobody would vape in this condition has it would be similar to smoke a cigarette filter. Many other studies have shown much different results but of course those studies have been completely disregarded by the FDA.

[ukrules]

Hey, just a heads up if you are worried about the American Lung Association (Notice it starts with the word American which = Corrupt these days). The cancerous chemical in e-cigs that they are talking about being in antifreeze is called Propylene Glycol and just because you can pull that it is associated to antifreeze off of Wiki-whatever doesn't mean anything. If you actually do some research into the substance itself you will find it is also in plenty of other things that you ingest daily in America in much higher doses than any E-cig can give you. I have ran my own health tests. Smoked 2 packs a day while working in Afghanistan for 3 years. Blew into the doctors machine, he told me my lung age was 75 years old. Switched to vaping for exactly 1 year, went back and blew into the same machine, told me my lung age was 38 years old. Only test the doctor and I needed to see. Sold. It may not be healthy for you, but it damn sure is not equal to or greater than cigarettes.

Yes, I like it when the anti freeze argument is used. Anything with a freezing point lower than 0 degrees C can be used as an anti freeze, this doesn't make it unsafe as a food ingredient, etc.

Propylene glycol freezes at -59 degrees C and doesn't boil until somewhere in the 180's Celsius so it's actually pretty good when used as an anti freeze, you can also raise the temperature to quite a high point so if you for example wanted to heat something to 150 degrees C (maybe for sterilization purposes) which can't be done in water it could easily be done in propylene glycol.

So it's very stable and so safe that it's used in things like IV drug delivery systems and asthma inhalers.

[Rimbuman]

In the end this steep jail sentence for using E-cigarettes makes perfectly logical sense considering the same mentality that pixelates video footage I've seen of smoking but not the horrendous blood and guts gore of someone killed. Likewise, the other bizarre or outrageous end results, through money obsession, can be rationalized, such as by the police not investigating a crime properly when no money is up for grabs in it and allowing certain crimes to thrive when there is money in it for them, underpaying staff or skimping on work conditions expenditure so as to finance the boss’s new car or trip abroad, businesses compromising safety by financially cutting corners, laws permitting businesses and farmers' usage for their products certain cheaper but unsafe chemicals banned in developed countries, the very long waiting outpatient queues in many public hospitals, the road maintenance procrastinations or ad hoc inadequate patching up of broken footpaths and roads, driving without headlights on at night, the plan to include everyone’s income on their ID card, the numerous scams, piracy and fakes, the bait and switch tactics occasionally used by sales people, the sometimes poor customer service, and charging foreigners certain fees and prices several times higher than Thais.

555, I just have to laugh

[NickJ]

I hope they don't come after my Snuss next.

[DrTuner]

I hope they don't come after my Snuss next.

It's probably in the same "not classified for tax, illegal" bracket already, like shisha tobacco.

Seems the principle is everything that is not expressly legal is illegal and things that are expressly legal might be made illegal by the whim of the enforcing officer. And then they expect people to respect laws.

[Puccini]

Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes they fall into a category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and their possession therefore is illegal. Offenders could face five years jail or a fine of four times the value of the goods or both jail and fine.

I wonder what type of tax and what law is being talked about here. Does anybody know?

[sambum]

So.. smoking weed is actually less of a problem than vaping if I understand correctly.

Somehow that does make sense.

(For reference: http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/marijuana-arrest.html )

Yep, caught smoking marijuana - 10,000 baht fine and/or a year in jail.

Caught "vaping" :- "Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes they fall into a category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and their possession therefore is illegal. Offenders could face five years jail or a fine of four times the value of the goods or both jail and fine."

So there you have it - they're not making any money out of E-cigarettes, so they prefer people to smoke tobacco products because these are taxed!

Smoking marijuana is less of an offence, because the "tax returns " on that is hidden (in brown envelopes, no doubt) and already being handled by the appropriate Government Department!

[DrTuner]

Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes they fall into a category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and their possession therefore is illegal. Offenders could face five years jail or a fine of four times the value of the goods or both jail and fine.

I wonder what type of tax and what law is being talked about here. Does anybody know?

The original Thai article link in the OP mentions the source of the info with references to some of the regulations. Seems it's a facebook page where lady cops answer questions: https://www.facebook.com/talkwithpolicegirl . Trust the BiB, naaaaaa.

However seems they're vaping away regardless:

[Apiwan2]

So when I arrive at swampy will have my Ecig and 10 bottles of liquid.

Will they be enforcing this ?

[DrTuner]

Looks like they were referring to this: http://internet1.customs.go.th/ebook/5802/index.html#p=24