Thai sex industry under fire from tourism minister, police

[Dogmatix]

There are about 123,530 sex workers in Thailand, according to a 2014 UNAIDS report..

That is roughly 2% of the Thai population and, if we ignore male sex workers for the sake of argument, that means that approximately 8% of the female population in the sexually active age group, say from 18 to 50 years old, are prostitutes. Most of them, if prostitution is their main source of income, are earning far in excess of the minimum wage for unskilled workers. Eradicating that source of income from the economy overnight is going to be painful to say the least. Even though most the direct fees for actual sex work is in the unrecorded black economy, sex work generates a great deal of ancillary income that is captured in the recorded economy, not to mention the trickle down effect of sex workers' income spent on food, housing, transport, healthcare etc for themselves and their families. This would cause a dent in Thailand's GDP as well as result in the sudden unemployment of 8% of the female workforce plus all the other staff who work in sex establishments, including servers, cleaners, car park attendants etc.

Then we turn to tourism numbers. Undoubtedly the appeal of tourism has evolved significantly since the 70s and broadened out to attract more families and culture vultures. However, sex tourism is still much more important that the minister, cocooned in her ivory tower, cares to admit. Even the ubiquitous Chinese tourists have started flocking to sex venues. Then you have to take into account the number of business visitors and conference delegates for whom the sex trade is a major motivation, not to mention the Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese direct investors who could locate their plants elsewhere but choose Thailand because the girls and the golf.

Basically the Thai economy which is already struggling with serious competitiveness issues and chronically bad planning and management for decades cannot afford to throw away one of its key competitive advantages. To do so would be to reduce to ground zero like Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge or Iran after they booted out the admittedly obnoxious Shah. So this will only be cosmetic and will be an excuse to cull a few operators who are not paying enough backsheesh or support the wrong political colour.

[bkkcanuck8]

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Because according to the tourism ministry she wants to kill the tourism industry aimed primarily for coming here to visit sex workers (she did not say she was aiming to shut down the sex industry itself - just the outward tourist part). Assuming this is the goal -- then it would make sense to hobble places like gogo bars that are the biggest enticement / advertisement. To do this you want to make it difficult to make money, and bar-fines are an important source of this money. Alcohol is another, so you revoke alcohol licenses where you have girls dancing on stage. That only leaves the money that is funneled through some bars to launder - and that is done by auditing and random sampling (click count customers entering and validating against purported revenue).

Without the flashing neon signs and girls dancing on stage as an advertisement - the sex tourism from foreigners will fade significantly. It will not stop paid dates though, just forces you to make other arrangements than take-out during bar hours.

[tomacht8]

The first two years in Thailand as a single.
That's over 20 years ago.
Patpong was the red-light scene with the prettiest service and the highest density of stunners per square meter.
No curfew, 24 hour swinging, no mobile phones, the term short time was unknown, no violence against falangs and the majority of thai people smiled.
I have made two years non stop party and whorish the equivalent of a 2 room asoke topfloor condo in the GoGos away.
Who remember the old Peppermint Bar or the rocking Safari Club?
Those were the days.

Nowadays I go sometimes in the Gogos but without any intentions to barfine.
Have 3 Gogos in Bangkok, which I find acceptable, but in general the business model is run down, with too much greed for money,
become ridiculously expensive and the fun remains on track.

If Kobkarn closes the tourist traps or not, I would not care.

The whole scene shifts out on websites, freelancers, clubs and apps.
The state power can not control this much anyway.

[brewsterbudgen]

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Because according to the tourism ministry she wants to kill the tourism industry aimed primarily for coming here to visit sex workers (she did not say she was aiming to shut down the sex industry itself - just the outward tourist part). Assuming this is the goal -- then it would make sense to hobble places like gogo bars that are the biggest enticement / advertisement. To do this you want to make it difficult to make money, and bar-fines are an important source of this money. Alcohol is another, so you revoke alcohol licenses where you have girls dancing on stage. That only leaves the money that is funneled through some bars to launder - and that is done by auditing and random sampling (click count customers entering and validating against purported revenue).

Without the flashing neon signs and girls dancing on stage as an advertisement - the sex tourism from foreigners will fade significantly. It will not stop paid dates though, just forces you to make other arrangements than take-out during bar hours.

You may be right, but the gogo bars in Nana, Cowboy, Patpong, Walking Street & LK Metro are generally the acceptable face of the adult nightlife scene. No sex supposedly takes place on the premises and plenty of tourists enjoy the spectacle without any intention of barfining anyone. In fact most seasoned "mongers" avoid gogo bars as the advent of coyotes and "no go" girls, plus the increased price of barfines and additional charges, have put them off.

Gogos are mostly licensed and if they follow the rules are generally left alone and considered part of the nightlife scene. Far more worthy of a crackdown are the unregulated karaoke bars, backstreet massage shops and streetwalkers. Soi 6 in Pattaya is, of course, a special case.

[Kiwiken]

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Because according to the tourism ministry she wants to kill the tourism industry aimed primarily for coming here to visit sex workers (she did not say she was aiming to shut down the sex industry itself - just the outward tourist part). Assuming this is the goal -- then it would make sense to hobble places like gogo bars that are the biggest enticement / advertisement. To do this you want to make it difficult to make money, and bar-fines are an important source of this money. Alcohol is another, so you revoke alcohol licenses where you have girls dancing on stage. That only leaves the money that is funneled through some bars to launder - and that is done by auditing and random sampling (click count customers entering and validating against purported revenue).

Without the flashing neon signs and girls dancing on stage as an advertisement - the sex tourism from foreigners will fade significantly. It will not stop paid dates though, just forces you to make other arrangements than take-out during bar hours.

Or most likely like in other so called Puritanical states you drive the Sex Workers onto the streets. All you create is more Thai and Foreign criminals and a more unsafe enviroment for the Girls. If they had a more enlightened view they would take their head out of the Sand and legalise it to protect the Workers and Customers. Then they could demand the Workers be registered which would bring in revenue for the Govt. I think their biggest gripe is they (The Govt ) does not get a cut.

[anotheruser]

Looking at post histories it's not surprising to find many of the pro-prostitute sexpats also share other views in 'common', ie: pro-Trump or pro-Brexit and/or pro-Thaksin, pro-gun even. Also many bang on about Thai xenophobes, yet back home are xenophobes themselves. It's somewhat ironic many are anti-immigrant back home, yet apparently it's ok for them to come to this country primarily to take advantage of economically disadvantaged young girls, usually young enough to be their own daughters (or younger).

Yes, the likes of Nana and other dens of desperation are on the wane as are the #s of equally desperate sexpats themselves. Might add, it's also nice it's becoming rarer to see a sweaty fat old sexpat groping his child-like 'rent a date' on the BTS as was prevalent a few years ago. All good.

Meanwhile, the 5 star hotels along the Choapraya etc are doing brisk trade with families and older couples, and young couples are enjoying holidays at guesthouses & mid range places at the beaches and up-country as well. Thailand's tourism and economy will manage just fine without desperate pathetic foreign sexpests thanks. However, if one's 'world' consists of Nana, or Cowboy etc, yes your world is fading fast and things will continue to become much bleaker for you. No wonder you lot are so angry all the time lol!

That's fine and you are entitled to your opinion. The issue I have is are you or others entitled to force their opinions on others? The morality brigade enforcing such laws is a slippery slope. Next they can ban alcohol. There should be no day during lent alcohol is allowed. The gogo bars in some ways offer the girls/guys working in them protection compared to freelancing on lower Suk.

If they are going to apply the laws as they pertain to Buddhism many people will find Thailand will become a very boring place. Even a conservative place like Singapore allows prostitution.

This isn't going to work out any better than the drug war is going and socially is a step in the wrong direction.

[SoiBiker]

It's a fascinating concept though. I can't even begin to fathom the levels of self-delusion necessary to enjoy such an arrangement.

Well, what is it that they say .. don't knock it until you've tried it

Luckily, I have someone happy to accompany me to dinner or a movie without need for payment.

excuse me for pointing out the obvious but I'm sure you have 'paid' plenty over the years! unless you live in a completely 'dual income dual pay' family then one of the couple pays! everyone pays in one way or the other and I can assure you that 'paying' for pleasurable company is a lot cheaper in the long run! but reading your posts I know you will defend your position without regard and I understand that but... there are other lifestyles that don't really need your 'I am holier than thou' judgements.. if you are happy enjoy what you have and good luck to you and leave the rest of us freedom loving folk alone.

As a Thai friend said to me "who wants chicken every night"? I certainly don't

Nope. That old 'we all pay for it' line is a relic of the days when women were chained to the kitchen sink. Right now my wife actually earns more than me - in the past I've earned more than her, but never by a huge amount. Neither of us is the other's employee.

I guess I grew up in a different world to some of you - but it's the world we live in now, and even Thailand is moving forwards, not backwards.

[luckyman]

Although I believe she certainly has a point, I donot think it should be the priority of the minister of Tourism.

She has a host of other issues to sort out first, imo..dual pricing comes to mind for example.

If prostitution is affecting her ability to attract a huge group of tourists (families) and their sweaty tourist money, it should be a priority for her.

I know dozens of guys back home (USA) that will never see Thailand because their wives refuse to take their family on a vacation to a sex tourist destination.

I don't know a single family that chooses their destination based on a few bucks of dual pricing. Irritating expats? Sure. Influencing holiday destination decisions? Not likely.

And for the guy who's going to respond that he sees plenty of families traveling to Thailand- sure. But how many more would come if they didn't have to expose their kids to in your face sex?

I don't know about that. I think it has more to do with your friends lack of knowledge and not knowing what is here for there family.

Just in and around Pattaya you have the world famous Tiger Zoo and Crocodile Farm, Snake Farm and Elephant Show, Go Carts, Petting Zoo, Water Park with Big Water Slides and Gondola to the top of Pattaya Towers, Dream World in Bangkok for 2 days with plenty of rides and entertainment for kids, Condos with there own swimming pools, and of course sandy beaches and great winter weather.

When my daughter was younger she came to visit me quite a few times there and was never bored nor did she ever see Walking Street. I agree that Pattaya does have a tarnished image, but a lot of that is unjustified. The sex industry is not on ever street corner and like the 7-11 is. Depends mostly where you stay and where you go.

If you want to go on a holiday strictly for kids then in my day they went to Disneyland. I imagine they still do.

I tend to think it's more a function of desensitization to it after living here a few years.

Sure, there are plenty of great things to do in Thailand other than sex. But that really doesn't matter if you have to pass a dozen kiosks selling dildos and porn and 3 or 4 lineups of street hookers strutting their stuff just getting from the airport to your hotel. And that makes the place a no-go zone for most families I know.

After 5 years, I don't even notice them any more. But I challenge anyone to spend a week in tourist Thailand without someone throwing sex in your face. Usually repeatedly. And regardless of how clueless they may be, a lot of tourists give Thailand a pass because of it- just like they pass on tourist areas with poor sanitation facilities. It's not the tourist's job to learn how to dodge the turds. Not when there's 100 places closer to home where the turds aren't even an issue.

Ever been to Germany or Holland? Loads of sex shops there too, and hookers as well but most tourists tend to just ignore that and actually, is sex not part if society and of human nature?

I donot see a problem here that keeps families from coming, rather a dodgy justice system (Koh Tao murders) and unsafe roads (second highest road fatality rate in the world).

[ftpjtm]

Looks like Ms Wattanavrangkul caught hubby with a Mia noi again.

[cardinalblue]

120,000 CSWs? Where? Pattaya only?

Denial of how big the scope is favorable in keeping the business going....

be in bkk next month....

CB

[anotheruser]

CSWs?

[Kru Baa]

Yep, that's it, it's closed. Simple as that, no more sex everyone. She must be thinking, "Well this job is easy isn't it? Now let's get those quality tourist in here we've all been waiting for".

[beautifulthailand99]

The redoubtable AD is making hay about this thread over on his blog....

meanwhile the Atlanta Hotel in Sikhumvit has been making a lonely stand for many a decade...

[slippery snake]

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

That's what differentiates Thai hookers from their counterparts in other countries. They offer a full entertainment package, the "girlfriend experience". Without nagging or other undesirable tantrums. Although from what I've heard the industry has moved toward the western 'stick it in and be done within 30mins' business model.

If you think paying someone to pretend they don't find you distasteful is the same experience as having a girlfriend, you can't have had much luck with women.

Yeah , you believe wife's and girlfriend's don't pretend ?? I had a wife that lied and deceived me for 20 years, while screwing heaps of guys then left the week I finished a big retirement project , that the bitch now owns... you can stick your western woman up your ass !!! actually I looking for a rich Chinese woman now, and think I may have found one ??? not interested in poor Thai girls with nothing but kids and family to pay for....

[Catoni]

Catering for dirty old men isn't really applicable in the 21st century. I must admit picturing a young pretty Thai lady barely 20 years old, with a drooling fart, old enough to be her grandfather is quite repulsive. In EU this would be considered unacceptable. Regretfully, Thailand does seemingly attract the dregs of society .. the sex tourists, perverts, and criminals. Most come after failing to attract a woman in their home country, (which is not surprising). So they come to LOS, as looks/age don't matter, so long as you have a fat bank account. I have witnessed 60 year-old men acting like a 21 year-old, which just looks ridiculous. Would be nice if Thailand cleaned-up it's act. The bars, and whore-houses were catering for the US service men at the time of the Vietnam war, well those days are gone. Time to clean-up the image of the country that is for sure.

Well...so you're an ageist.... .... we've fought the good fight over the years against Racism, Sexism, Anti-Semitism etc, etc.... . But we still have the fight against Ageism....

Some people hate old people for some reason.. They say we are "dirty"...(I shower at least once a day.. sometimes twice), drooling...(maybe if we have suffered a stroke perhaps....gee whiz.... sorry we had a stroke. ) calling us a "fart" .

I feel sorry in a way for people that hate old people because of the age... Do you hope to die before you reach 60 ? In some countries.... the elderly are treated with great respect and love. In some countries.... the people have no knowledge of the hatred for old people that some in the west have... But they might learn it from western media.. Sad,

Ageism is as bad as Racism and Sexism..etc... etc.. We have the fight now against the Ageists... Wow ! ! Sorry we grew old..... must be a horrible crime.

Just imagine.... these ageists get to be in their 70's and 80's and look into their mirror....... they will have to live with the horrible fact that they are now old also...

[bkkcanuck8]

The redoubtable AD is making hay about this thread over on his blog....

meanwhile the Atlanta Hotel in Sikhumvit has been making a lonely stand for many a decade...

Don't think I like the attitude of the hotel itself. I don't have a problem with the hotel expecting certain conservative behavior but the way of enforcement without any explanation creates a situation where you end up insulting someone. i.e. making immediate judgements based on look rather than the guests behaviour.

[puukao]

I am shocked this thread even has ONE reply!!!

Every expat I meet says they are not a sex tourist and have no interest in bar girls!!!! I have met 100,000...

All the backpackers tell me they like like the fruit and elephants.......hmmmm

[anotheruser]

I don't think I could stick her up there to be honest. Even if I could, I don't think either of us would enjoy the experience.

Maybe if you ever got off of the internet and got laid once in a while you would be more pleasant. Viagra is your friend.

[puukao]

Catering for dirty old men isn't really applicable in the 21st century. I must admit picturing a young pretty Thai lady barely 20 years old, with a drooling fart, old enough to be her grandfather is quite repulsive. In EU this would be considered unacceptable. Regretfully, Thailand does seemingly attract the dregs of society .. the sex tourists, perverts, and criminals. Most come after failing to attract a woman in their home country, (which is not surprising). So they come to LOS, as looks/age don't matter, so long as you have a fat bank account. I have witnessed 60 year-old men acting like a 21 year-old, which just looks ridiculous. Would be nice if Thailand cleaned-up it's act. The bars, and whore-houses were catering for the US service men at the time of the Vietnam war, well those days are gone. Time to clean-up the image of the country that is for sure.

Well...so you're an ageist.... .... we've fought the good fight over the years against Racism, Sexism, Anti-Semitism etc, etc.... . But we still have the fight against Ageism....

Some people hate old people for some reason.. They say we are "dirty"...(I shower at least once a day.. sometimes twice), drooling...(maybe if we have suffered a stroke perhaps....gee whiz.... sorry we had a stroke. ) calling us a "fart" .

I feel sorry in a way for people that hate old people because of the age... Do you hope to die before you reach 60 ? In some countries.... the elderly are treated with great respect and love. In some countries.... the people have no knowledge of the hatred for old people that some in the west have... But they might learn it from western media.. Sad,

Ageism is as bad as Racism and Sexism..etc... etc.. We have the fight now against the Ageists... Wow ! ! Sorry we grew old..... must be a horrible crime.

Just imagine.... these ageists get to be in their 70's and 80's and look into their mirror....... they will have to live with the horrible fact that they are now old also...

Usually people who get mad have deep issues. Maybe this bloke is poor, mad the older guy can enjoy while he must eat 20 baht soup, or his dad left him, or let down by society. Usually it's a deep insecurity that spews ridicule behind the mask of the internet. When you must live a life you have not chosen, the hatred comes out. You just need to ask to see their bank account, resume, education, background check, and body fat. Then, once the insecurity is painfully obvious, just laugh......it's always super obvious you never need to ask for anything.

[turk56]

Is this what they mean by "Quality Tourists"?

[thedivezone]

Is this what they mean by "Quality Tourists"?

Yes, they are the ones .

[turk56]

These, as well?

[lamyai3]

I guess the net effect of this announcement is to advertise the sprawling sex industry in the foreign media, with no obvious reason since it's not made the headlines recently there at all. They may even inadvertently get a small spike in tourism as a result of reminding the world about it!

[WishWashMan]

It will happen. Anyway. I never saw so many bars for sale as of now due lack of customers. And this is just the beginning. The crime rate will continue to rise. For the remaining tourists Thailand becomes more and more dangerous.

It is low season!

I was in Nana couple of weeks back and virtually no customers in the gogos. Not surprising when one sees how much the drinks are and the revolting so called music that the DJs like.

Lots of punters in the outside bars though. No doubt waiting till closing to pick up a takeaway without paying the BF.

I did notice that there are way less really pretty dancers than in the 90s.

Pattaya has had too many bars for donkey's years though, and low customer numbers per bar are the norm.

God awful music. I think the DJs are jealous of the 10% of girls making mucho baht. Thai rock is better than what they play.

I see NANA more valuable as a 7-11.....................lol. The NO customer model just doesnt make sense.............................hahahahaha.

Rainbow 4 or whatever its name is now is just a weekend thing. Weekdays no girls no customers.

[gunzel3808]

Oh dear - 'beautiful culture', sure there is some, but also plenty of animal cruelty, lack of respect for women generally by the male of the species in Thailand, overcharging of foreign tourists, poor service in restaurants and other places of entertainment, etc.

Seriously, get rid of cock fighting, elephants rides, using animals for personal/private gain, like the slow loris petting, dog meat supply industry (though this is an illegal trade mainly centered on supplying across the border trade in Vietnam), underage girls in the local Thai male only brothels, etc, etc.

Do something real about the various hire businesses at Pattaya and Phuket currently run by local mafia's that give the country such a bad name with all the extortion & rip-offs in association with their local police 'protection'.

Really, all foreign tourists should be supplied with a lists of things 'Not to do in Thailand' - but many are just oblivious to what can and does happen, being very naive as to the dangers. I would never hire a surf ski in a pink fit in this country. Heaps of crap anyhow.

I live in Sydney with three Thai's - my wife, one of her nieces who is 30 and her 37 year old husband. He has bashed her twice already in their 18 months living here and I have told him if he does it again he will be referred to the police. We haven't done so now due to the dire situation if he is sent home early as they will have to sell the vehicle they are paying off over four years & the same goes for the land recently purchased. The long term future of the marriage is not looking good as she is now on the hunt for a local Aussie partner.

Another option is, we kick him out and tell him if he runs to immigration to put her in - we will show the photos of the injuries she has sustained to the police & he will be charged. Thai males are such 'dick-heads' to quote the vernacular!

[212Roger]

I guess the net effect of this announcement is to advertise the sprawling sex industry in the foreign media, with no obvious reason since it's not made the headlines recently there at all. They may even inadvertently get a small spike in tourism as a result of reminding the world about it!

"Thai logic?"

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Maybe TAT should come up with a new silly slogan (was long time now since the last one) Maybe this one will work:

"Please no sex we are (Hiso) Thai"

[Freakin Musashi]

kobkarn.jpg

This the Minister of Sports and tourism, Kobkarn Wattanavrankul. I believe she is correctly referred to as a woman.

Not bad looking. I wouldn't want her all night but a short time sounds good. How much?

She does look familiar, doesn't she?

[NongKhaiKid]

Maybe TAT should come up with a new silly slogan (was long time now since the last one) Maybe this one will work:

"Please no sex we are (Hiso) Thai"

Will mia nois be ok, after all that's part of traditional culture ?

[micmichd]

Maybe TAT should come up with a new silly slogan (was long time now since the last one) Maybe this one will work:

"Please no sex we are (Hiso) Thai"

Which Farang would want a Hiso chick anyway? It's the lower class women you're after, isn't it?

So, there's something in the basket for everyone:

The mid class Farangs get a lower class lady, the poor Farangs get nothing,the HiSo Farangs get a condo or hotel. And those who stay in Farangistan get a Farang woman to rip them off, while Thais stay in Thailand.