PM Prayut says there must be political reforms before an election

[Eric Loh]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

I like your complot theories, but you have nothing to back them up. But you do agree that the government fell because of the amnesty (their own mistake)

 

I don't agree that it would have happened without the amnesty and you got nothing to back it up. So we can only conclude that they brought it down on their own head because they wanted to pardon Thaksin. 

 

I won't deny that the Elite would have tried something, i just deny that it would happen without a catalyst like this else they would never have the support of the people to topple the government. A catalyst like that would always have to come from a mistake of the PTP and it would have to be a big one like this. I find it highly unlikely that something else like that would have found. Its only Thaksin that really brings out extreme emotions (on both sides) nothing much else. They played right into the cards of their enemy because they wanted that criminal back. He put his own interest before all other things.. and it led to the coup. 

 

Amnesty bill was in October. Public outcry resulted in mass protest and upper house refused the bill and PTP withdrew the bill in November 2013. Mass crowd went home and only the southern folks and their armed protectors remained. Instigation by Suthep, Issara and PDRC soon followed and harassed Bangkok with the shutdowns. Violent clashes at the Government House, Jap-Thai stadium and Laksi. Innuedos hauled at the UDD and they responded. Coup in May 2015. No, amnesty was not the trigger but planned violence and shutdowns were the reasons and also the pretext for the coup.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Amnesty bill was in October. Public outcry resulted in mass protest and upper house refused the bill and PTP withdrew the bill in November 2013. Mass crowd went home and only the southern folks and their armed protectors remained. Instigation by Suthep, Issara and PDRC soon followed and harassed Bangkok with the shutdowns. Violent clashes at the Government House, Jap-Thai stadium and Laksi. Innuedos hauled at the UDD and they responded. Coup in May 2015. No, amnesty was not the trigger but planned violence and shutdowns were the reasons and also the pretext for the coup.

THat is your interpretation, mine and that of law specialist reasoned that the bill could have been revived (were whole topics over) so that was the reason they stayed. 

[Eligius]

25 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Amnesty bill was in October. Public outcry resulted in mass protest and upper house refused the bill and PTP withdrew the bill in November 2013. Mass crowd went home and only the southern folks and their armed protectors remained. Instigation by Suthep, Issara and PDRC soon followed and harassed Bangkok with the shutdowns. Violent clashes at the Government House, Jap-Thai stadium and Laksi. Innuedos hauled at the UDD and they responded. Coup in May 2015. No, amnesty was not the trigger but planned violence and shutdowns were the reasons and also the pretext for the coup.

Yes, I remember the shameful scenes (in 2014) of mobs of people blocking the voting public from exercising their democratic right to vote. I was in Hatyai at the time and was furious and horrified (at the mob-rule fascism) when I got caught up in a traffic jam outside a main postal sorting-office in Hatyai, where thugs and mobs were encircling the post office and not allowing the voting papers (voting slips) to go out to the voting public. It was unbelievable! I know there are mobs and thugs on both sides of the political divide (I was in BKK when demonstrators were slaughtered and buildings were burned down in retaliation)   - but don't let anyone ever tell you that those lovely Southern Yellow Shirts are pure in soul and great supporters of law, order and democracy. What I witnessed truly appalled me - and (for all her faults) all Yingluck was trying to do on that occasion was take the matter to the country, for the Thai people to decide which way Thailand should go. 

 

But the very idea of asking the Thais to decide the Thais' future - that is treasonous in some people's minds!

Edited August 31, 2016 by Eligius

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

so that was the reason they stayed

No.

They stayed because the Democrats quit the democtratic process of checks and balances as members of the Parliament where the bill could have again been denied and refused to participate in the February democratically organized elections in accordance to the 2007 Constitution. The only action that remained for the Democrats was to force the Yingluck caretaker government to dissolve and have Suthep's "citizen's committee" select the new government. And that was Suthep's motivation for the protests.

For all the intimidation and violence that Suthep brought on, including occupation of the Government House, he didn't succeed. Yingluck insisted on adherence to the process prescribed by the Constitution. So General Prayut appointed himself as a facilitator for change in the government in violation to the 2007 Constitution. When that didn't succeed, Prayut overthrew the government and abolished the Constitution.

[JAG]

4 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

Just wondering if PTP are regretting their decision to grant amnesty to themselves and their absent leader yet. All this could have been avoided. Laughable.

This would have happened even if PTP had proved to the best most enlightened,  economically proficient and least corrupt government in SE Asia ( admittedly  unlikely)..

 

This happened because for the last 20 yeqrs or so the old guard have seen/sensed power slipping away from them. Overthrowing Thaksin,  and gerrymandering  Abhisit into Government House didn't work, so it had to to be stopped. A permanent Junta seems the only solution. 

 

They're dinosaurs.

 

A sudden cataclysmic event struck the dinosaurs and rendered them extinct.

2 hours ago, robblok said:

No it would not have happened.. they brought it on themselves. There would have no massive protest that would have helped the junta in power. People who think it would have happened anyway are those that try to absolve the PTP from their wrongdoing. There are quite a few news articles stating that PTP regretted doing this and accepting that this was what brought the government down.

 

Now you could imagine something else because its hard to accept this but no way would there be support for a coup any other way. Sleep tight knowing your side brought it up because they wanted the convicted criminal back. 

 

Sutheps himself said that the coup was long planned. The PTP government was always going to have to be overthrown, because the establishment had proved incapable of selling their choice to the electorate. Whatever the PTP governments mistakes and faults, and they were many, they were doomed as soon as it became clear that they were going to win in 2011.

Why do you think the 2014 election was blocked, why do you think Sutheps mob was allowed to so blatantly break the laws, with no sanctions? Because it would create a justification for a coup. If you really think that the coup, junta and the regime now being constructed are a result of PTP mistakes then you have bought into the fake  vanilla flavoured narrative of those who simply cannot accept the democratic will of the Thai electorate . Worse still you are prepared to accept the imposition of a system of repressing and denying personal and political freedoms in the name of  peace, order, and "reform," ( but actually to entrench the hegemony of a small elite who consider that they alone are entitled to govern the country  and benefit from its resources); the sort of regime which any liberal thinkers thought had gone into the dustbin of history with the fall of the Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe and the demise of the equally loathsome right wing military regimes of South America.

Edited August 31, 2016 by JAG

[Al Weiss]

4 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

Just wondering if PTP are regretting their decision to grant amnesty to themselves and their absent leader yet. All this could have been avoided. Laughable.

 

 

Would not have avoided the inevitable coup.

 

The "amnesty issue" just gave an additional excuse to people who needed no excuses.

[Eligius]

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

This would have happened even if PTP had proved to the best most enlightened,  economically proficient and least corrupt government in SE Asia ( admittedly  unlikely)..

 

This happened because for the last 20 yeqrs or so the old guard have seen/sensed power slipping away from them. Overthrowing Thaksin,  and gerrymandering  Abhisit into Government House didn't work, so it had to to be stopped. A permanent Junta seems the only solution. 

 

They're dinosaurs.

 

A sudden cataclysmic event struck the dinosaurs and rendered them extinct.

 

Sutheps himself said that the coup was long planned. The PTP government was always going to have to be overthrown, because the establishment had proved incapable of selling their choice to the electorate. Whatever the PTP governments mistakes and faults, and they were many, they were doomed as soon as it became clear that they were going to win in 2011.

Why do you think the 2014 election was blocked, why do you think Sutheps mob was allowed to so blatantly break the laws, with no sanctions? Because it would create a justification for a coup. If you really think that the coup, junta and the regime now being constructed are a result of PTBS mistakes then you have bought into the fake  vanilla flavoured narrative of those who simply cannot accept the democratic will of the Thai narrative. Worse still you are prepared to accept the imposition of a system of repressing and denying personal and political freedoms in the name of  peace, order, and "reform," which most thought had gone into the dustbin of history with the fall of the Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe and the demise of the equally loathsome right wing military regimes of South America.

Oh well said, JAG, bravo - bravissimo!

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, JAG said:

This would have happened even if PTP had proved to the best most enlightened,  economically proficient and least corrupt government in SE Asia ( admittedly  unlikely)..

 

This happened because for the last 20 yeqrs or so the old guard have seen/sensed power slipping away from them. Overthrowing Thaksin,  and gerrymandering  Abhisit into Government House didn't work, so it had to to be stopped. A permanent Junta seems the only solution. 

 

They're dinosaurs.

 

A sudden cataclysmic event struck the dinosaurs and rendered them extinct.

 

Sutheps himself said that the coup was long planned. The PTP government was always going to have to be overthrown, because the establishment had proved incapable of selling their choice to the electorate. Whatever the PTP governments mistakes and faults, and they were many, they were doomed as soon as it became clear that they were going to win in 2011.

Why do you think the 2014 election was blocked, why do you think Sutheps mob was allowed to so blatantly break the laws, with no sanctions? Because it would create a justification for a coup. If you really think that the coup, junta and the regime now being constructed are a result of PTP mistakes then you have bought into the fake  vanilla flavoured narrative of those who simply cannot accept the democratic will of the Thai electorate . Worse still you are prepared to accept the imposition of a system of repressing and denying personal and political freedoms in the name of  peace, order, and "reform," ( but actually to entrench the hegemony of a small elite who consider that they alone are entitled to govern the country  and benefit from its resources); the sort of regime which any liberal thinkers thought had gone into the dustbin of history with the fall of the Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe and the demise of the equally loathsome right wing military regimes of South America.

 

Your unwilling to see that your side brought it on his own, Suthep could have wanted a coup but without a big mistake like this of the PTP he would never have been able to gain the support of the people. That is all of it. I know its hard to swallow that the current situation stems from a PTP error and even worse from your hero his egocentrisme. 

Do tell me how they would be able to mobilize so many people without such a dumb mistake ?

 

People can wan't what they want... but without the people behind them it wont happen.. and Suthep did not have a valid excuse. 

[JAG]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Your unwilling to see that your side brought it on his own, Suthep could have wanted a coup but without a big mistake like this of the PTP he would never have been able to gain the support of the people. That is all of it. I know its hard to swallow that the current situation stems from a PTP error and even worse from your hero his egocentrisme. 

Do tell me how they would be able to mobilize so many people without such a dumb mistake ?

 

People can wan't what they want... but without the people behind them it wont happen.. and Suthep did not have a valid excuse. 

No he didn't have the people behind him.

 

That was why the first move to overthrown the elected government - a mass movement failed, it was just not mass enough. That's why the "mass movement" ended up using hired thugs ( paid for by a large scale protection  racket - sorry  I should have said paid for by enthusiastic donations to Sutheps marches) to prevent the election which would have finished it.

 

Plan B was initiated - it didn't need the people, it had the guns. And the reputation of the army from 2010 and numerous other occasions prior was enough. 

[aussieinthailand]

15 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, I remember the shameful scenes of mobs of people blocking the voting public from exercising their democratic right to vote. I was in Hatyai at the time and was furious and horrified (at the mob-rule fascism) when I got caught up in a traffic jam outside a main postal sorting-office in Hatyai, where thugs and mobs were encircling the post office and not allowing the voting papers (voting slips) to go out to the voting public. It was unbelievable! I know there are mobs and thugs on both sides of the political divide (I was in BKK when demonstrators were slaughtered and buildings were burned down)   - but don't let anyone ever tell you that those lovely Southern Yellow Shirts are pure in soul and great supporters of law, order and democracy. What I witnessed truly appalled me - and (for all her faults) all Yingluck was trying to do on that occasion was take the matter to the country, for the Thai people to decide which way Thailand should go. 

 

But the very idea of asking the Thais to decide the Thais' future - that is treasonous in some people's minds!

So he want's to control who can enter politics. That is not his job, that is for the people to control via a vote which he continuously delay's.

It's almost impossible to have a yellow shirt supporter to admit that there were yellow thugs bashing people trying to vote.

But if the shoe were on the other foot they would squeal like a stuck pig.

Or that there were buildings invaded and workers threaten to get out and not come back or else. and that these people should have been arrested charged and gaoled for this, but what happened?  you had the police told by the courts to leave the protesters alone and they were not violent whilst they were having grenades thrown at them,  not what most every person in the country saw they most defiantly were violent, but love to claim the violent red's...

Then the military, why did they not do their duty which is  national security in protecting people??? and putting a stop to the violence???

Because many suggest it was all in the planning,  just as each coup prior to this last one, planed and any excuse given to justly it.

Yes the amnesty bill was a stupid mistake by PTP in IMO.

The violence on the streets was the reason for the coup, now who whipped up the protests and the violence?  and who did not do his duty security of the country?  Now he is (apparently) running the country, gaoling those that protest his rule, gaoling those that are a threat to his rule, threatens to shoot reporters, uses bad language that a leader of a nation should not be using in his Friday night public address or interview. sniffing socks, throwing banana skins at reporters and picking his nose followed by wanting to shaking peoples hands.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, JAG said:

"Good people, bad people,  screening" ;who is to define that?

 

What he means is no election until they have completed the process of stripping the franchise from those who do not vote for "their side:.

 

Franchise ? They are going to make McDonald's, KFC, Amazon Cafe franchisees vote how their told or loose their franchise? Wow, where did you get that inside info from?

[Winniedapu]

Reforms before elections: Suthep's mantra, along with the mad monk and the rest of their motley crew.

 

Just the initial spadework at the moment though, the punch-line comes next year... "reforms not completed due to opposition and Thaksin, Sooo, no elections this year."

 

The problem with becoming predictable is that people will begin... to... predict... you.

 

The acid test for these people is this: "Would the Thai people put up with you if you didn't have any soldiers with guns behind you?" That should be a sobering thought, because one day, if history is any teacher, they won't have.

 

Winnie

[Eligius]

8 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

Reforms before elections: Suthep's mantra, along with the mad monk and the rest of their motley crew.

 

Just the initial spadework at the moment though, the punch-line comes next year... "reforms not completed due to opposition and Thaksin, Sooo, no elections this year."'

 

The problem with becoming predictable is that people will begin... to... predict... you.

 

The acid test for these people is this: "Would the Thai people put up with you if you didn't have any soldiers with guns behind you?" That should be a sobering thought, because one day, if history is any teacher, they won't have.

 

Winnie

'Would the Thai people put up with them if there were no guns behind them?'

As Shakespeare might say: 'THAT is the question'. And we all know the answer!

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

So he want's to control who can enter politics. That is not his job, that is for the people to control via a vote which he continuously delay's.

It's almost impossible to have a yellow shirt supporter to admit that there were yellow thugs bashing people trying to vote.

But if the shoe were on the other foot they would squeal like a stuck pig.

Or that there were buildings invaded and workers threaten to get out and not come back or else. and that these people should have been arrested charged and gaoled for this, but what happened?  you had the police told by the courts to leave the protesters alone and they were not violent whilst they were having grenades thrown at them,  not what most every person in the country saw they most defiantly were violent, but love to claim the violent red's...

Then the military, why did they not do their duty which is  national security in protecting people??? and putting a stop to the violence???

Because many suggest it was all in the planning,  just as each coup prior to this last one, planed and any excuse given to justly it.

Yes the amnesty bill was a stupid mistake by PTP in IMO.

The violence on the streets was the reason for the coup, now who whipped up the protests and the violence?  and who did not do his duty security of the country?  Now he is (apparently) running the country, gaoling those that protest his rule, gaoling those that are a threat to his rule, threatens to shoot reporters, uses bad language that a leader of a nation should not be using in his Friday night public address or interview. sniffing socks, throwing banana skins at reporters and picking his nose followed by wanting to shaking peoples hands.

 

Every country has laws around criteria for being able to stand for election for their version of parliament. And usually laws for conduct and how to address breaches of that conduct.

 

Is that what he's proposing reforming? Maybe excluding those convicted of criminal offences, or wanted on outstanding warrants? Or being a placebo for such a person.

 

He's right about public scrutiny - but it has to be everyone. total and transparent. Is that ever likely to happen here?

 

The police have been tame to the Shin clam and done what ever the Shins told them. They were conspicuous by there absence during the Shin insurgency. This time. although Chalerm, ably assisted by Tharit, vowed to protect red shirts, threatened to sue all and sundry who threatened the Shins or spoke against them, the police failed to arrest one single violent attacker or prevent attacks. A few who fell into their hands were released and charges never brought.

 

The military were given the opportunity, which they took with both hands, to step in once the Shins dissolved parliament, tried to force the Amnesty Bill version that benefited Thaksin through, lied about withdrawing it, and couldn't get their hands on the 2.2 trillion baht to pay off the rice scheme as they planned. Sure the descent into chaos was helped. Yingluck, or rather Thaksin's response to try and get another election victory and claim a new mandate for his Amnesty Bill was never going to be allowed to fly. 

 

The reality is a reactionary old established elite who will only tolerate change and reform so far. And a one family controlled pretend for the people alliance who only want reforms that benefit themselves. So yes, he's right that a new crop of politicians are needed. Gawd knows where they're gonna come from though or whether they'd ever be allowed to make the reforms needed.

[Winniedapu]

23 minutes ago, JAG said:

No he didn't have the people behind him.

 

That was why the first move to overthrown the elected government - a mass movement failed, it was just not mass enough. That's why the "mass movement" ended up using hired thugs ( paid for by a large scale protection  racket - sorry  I should have said paid for by enthusiastic donations to Sutheps marches) to prevent the election which would have finished it.

 

Plan B was initiated - it didn't need the people, it had the guns. And the reputation of the army from 2010 and numerous other occasions prior was enough. 

 

 

Interestingly, the aerial photographs claiming to show 3 million people - (the great mass of the people), only actually show about 300,000, which means a 10-fold exaggeration. More interestingly still, Pravit from the Nation says that Suthep actually used aerial photographs from the celebrations in the mid-noughties and pretended they were evidence of his own great popularity and the slavish devotion of millions - in addition to the folk he paid to have shipped in from the south of Thailand.

 

Either way, there's plenty of evidence to show how crooked that nice Mr Suthep is though - why all his teeth haven't turned black and fallen out with all his blatant lies I just don't know. I suspect that sooner of later. someone will do a Sondhi Lim on him. What a great loss that would be.

 

Winnie

Edited August 31, 2016 by Winniedapu

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

THat is your interpretation, mine and that of law specialist reasoned that the bill could have been revived (were whole topics over) so that was the reason they stayed. 

I take it that in your view, and the view of the unnamed law specialists, the only recourse to an unpopular bill is a military coup, suspension of the constitution, a new constitution "approved" in a fake referendum, and then elections, someday, maybe.

 

Reasonable people think that is somewhat extreme.

[Eric Loh]

The military must reform their mindset and their addiction to coups. They must come to a rude awakening and realization that Thailand is in the 21st century and in a connected global village and an open economy. Their mindset is antiguated in their beliefs that people are still subservient to the elites.

 

They must reform their mindset that they are not saving the country but rather damaging the economy and the image. They are never a solution as past coups failures demonstrated but actually they are a problem in this modern world. They are neither the good people as they also have corruptions, cronyism and all the issues of politicians in their midst. 

 

They must reform their mindset to trust the people to not chose corrupted politicians as their leaders. Indonesia is a good example of allowing people to decide over time. Staging coups and seizing power every now and then will only set back the democracy process and people confidence of empowerment to eradicate corruption and find honest government. 

[Winniedapu]

30 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I take it that in your view, and the view of the unnamed law specialists, the only recourse to an unpopular bill is a military coup, suspension of the constitution, a new constitution "approved" in a fake referendum, and then elections, someday, maybe.

 

Reasonable people think that is somewhat extreme.

 

 

Only if they aren't aware of the previous and following steps in the process, in a bit-wise process, no step can or should be viewed in isolation.

 

Nobody seems to be concerned that this junta has not displayed the document appointing that nice Mr Prayuth as PM. Pervious juntas always did, to show their legitimacy. But this time... nothing. I wonder why that might be?

 

In my experience, 2 + 2 rarely equals five.

 

Winnie

Edited August 31, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, JAG said:

This would have happened even if PTP had proved to the best most enlightened,  economically proficient and least corrupt government in SE Asia ( admittedly  unlikely)..

 

This happened because for the last 20 yeqrs or so the old guard have seen/sensed power slipping away from them. Overthrowing Thaksin,  and gerrymandering  Abhisit into Government House didn't work, so it had to to be stopped. A permanent Junta seems the only solution. 

 

They're dinosaurs.

 

A sudden cataclysmic event struck the dinosaurs and rendered them extinct.

 

Thaksin, who has no use for reforms other than those that benefit him and his family, allows his greed, ego and thirst for adulation to overthrow himself.

He dissolved parliament, resigned the caretaker PM role, then seized it back. His governments have all been riddled with corruption and self interest. Then he tries to force through an Amnesty for himself, for his conviction, jumping bail and all those serious outstanding cases. It brings down the government of his nominee little sister.

 

Against such self destructing opposition the dinosaurs must think there's not really much to worry about. 

 

So yes,  the comment that reforms, good and new politicians are required is correct. The issue is who defines what's good, what the reforms are and who is allowed? 

[Baerboxer]

10 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

Interestingly, the aerial photographs claiming to show 3 million people - (the great mass of the people), only actually show about 300,000, which means a 10-fold exaggeration. More interestingly still, Pravit from the Nation says that Suthep actually used aerial photographs from the celebrations in the mid-noughties and pretended they were evidence of his own great popularity and the slavish devotion of millions - in addition to the folk he paid to have shipped in from the south of Thailand.

 

Either way, there's plenty of evidence to show how crooked that nice Mr Suthep is though - why all his teeth haven't turned black and fallen out with all his blatant lies I just don't know. I suspect that sooner of later. someone will do a Sondhi Lim on him. What a great loss that would be.

 

Winnie

 

Ah yes, keep talking the numbers down and it'll soon be only about 30!

 

300k is your estimation, hardly an unbiased one. 3m seems an exageration but 500k to 1.5 million would be more like it IMO.

 

Remember the leaked recording of Thaksin's phone conversation with the deputy defense minister? He'd said probably about 10k would protest. He was massively wrong, whatever the actual figure.

[Eligius]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The military must reform their mindset and their addiction to coups. They must come to a rude awakening and realization that Thailand is in the 21st century and in a connected global village and an open economy. Their mindset is antiguated in their beliefs that people are still subservient to the elites.

 

They must reform their mindset that they are not saving the country but rather damaging the economy and the image. They are never a solution as past coups failures demonstrated but actually they are a problem in this modern world. They are neither the good people as they also have corruptions, cronyism and all the issues of politicians in their midst. 

 

They must reform their mindset to trust the people to not chose corrupted politicians as their leaders. Indonesia is a good example of allowing people to decide over time. Staging coups and seizing power every now and then will only set back the democracy process and people confidence of empowerment to eradicate corruption and find honest government. 

'Staging coups and seizing power every now and then will only set back the democracy process ...'

But that is precisely what they want, Eric (as I'm sure you realise). These people are not interested in democracy. That is the very last thing they want!

[Baerboxer]

7 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The military must reform their mindset and their addiction to coups. They must come to a rude awakening and realization that Thailand is in the 21st century and in a connected global village and an open economy. Their mindset is antiguated in their beliefs that people are still subservient to the elites.

 

They must reform their mindset that they are not saving the country but rather damaging the economy and the image. They are never a solution as past coups failures demonstrated but actually they are a problem in this modern world. They are neither the good people as they also have corruptions, cronyism and all the issues of politicians in their midst. 

 

They must reform their mindset to trust the people to not chose corrupted politicians as their leaders. Indonesia is a good example of allowing people to decide over time. Staging coups and seizing power every now and then will only set back the democracy process and people confidence of empowerment to eradicate corruption and find honest government. 

 

The mindset that says gangs can hijack politics, ignore laws, do things that benefit themselves regardless of the impact on the people and the country, refuse to obey the courts, break laws and lie, and be totally untouchable,  also has to be change

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, Eligius said:

'Staging coups and seizing power every now and then will only set back the democracy process ...'

But that is precisely what they want, Eric (as I'm sure you realise). These people are not interested in democracy. That is the very last thing they want!

 

And neither is the main opposition. They want the type of democracy Mr. Lee gave Singapore and Hun Set is creating in Cambodia. 

 

That's why new breed of politicians and reforms are desperately needed - but where will they come from, and what will they be allowed to do?

[Winniedapu]

19 minutes ago, Eligius said:

'Staging coups and seizing power every now and then will only set back the democracy process ...'

But that is precisely what they want, Eric (as I'm sure you realise). These people are not interested in democracy. That is the very last thing they want!

 

Agreed, but. Who is actually responsible?

 

"The military must reform their mindset and their addiction to coups."

 

There's an argument that says the army did not and has not decide(d) to become junta governments, they were just doing what they were told.

 

The problem is that, as the 'Nuremberg trials' clearly defined, and (I believe) international treaties have since concurred, that 'just following orders' is not a legitimate defence against crimes committed while a soldier.

 

We have to look deeper than surface manufactured appearances, and ask for whom the fig-leaves were actually manufactured . In particular, who is wearing the latest one...?

 

Winnie

[elgordo38]

9 hours ago, Rorri said:

"while he himself has not spent any money to buy favour from the people." No need to buy anything when you take it by military force.

Force Majeure is how you accomplished it dear general. Boy that term "political reforms" is a loaded question. No non generals, poor, disenfranchised need apply. The term will protect the military politics end of things and straight jacket the rest. 

[JAG]

56 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The mindset that says gangs can hijack politics, ignore laws, do things that benefit themselves regardless of the impact on the people and the country, refuse to obey the courts, break laws and lie, and be totally untouchable,  also has to be change

You've just summed up the last two years!

[JayBeeee]

I remember a "good person" in Thai politics from a few years ago; don't remember his name, but I can still see the look of defeat on his face when he quit.

His reasons for quitting were that he couldn't find any good people in government to work with him. He was a genuine person with a good heart and a commitment to doing the right thing and helping to make life better for poor Thai people.

The greatest obstacle he encountered when trying to raise support in getting something done was the "what's in it for me?" response he would invariably get from his colleagues in government.
I can understand Gen. Prayut's sentiments, but certainly don't envy his task of achieving the goal.

[Plutojames88]

28 minutes ago, JayBeeee said:

I remember a "good person" in Thai politics from a few years ago; don't remember his name, but I can still see the look of defeat on his face when he quit.

His reasons for quitting were that he couldn't find any good people in government to work with him. He was a genuine person with a good heart and a commitment to doing the right thing and helping to make life better for poor Thai people.

The greatest obstacle he encountered when trying to raise support in getting something done was the "what's in it for me?" response he would invariably get from his colleagues in government.
I can understand Gen. Prayut's sentiments, but certainly don't envy his task of achieving the goal.

Gen Prayut's is unqualified to fathom the word good

[ramrod711]

2 hours ago, Eligius said:

'Would the Thai people put up with them if there were no guns behind them?'

As Shakespeare might say: 'THAT is the question'. And we all know the answer!

 

And yet the Thai people came out and voted yes to the charter despite Yingluck, Jatuporn , his gang of 19 influential red shirts. I guess you may have miscalculated what the Thai people want, even though you are all foremost experts on the subject. AS I said before laughable.

[Eligius]

7 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

 

And yet the Thai people came out and voted yes to the charter despite Yingluck, Jatuporn , his gang of 19 influential red shirts. I guess you may have miscalculated what the Thai people want, even though you are all foremost experts on the subject. AS I said before laughable.

'Laughable': yes - giving the Thai people the 'choice' in the referendum between

 

1) voting 'yes', to end up with continued  military control of the nation

       or

2) voting 'no',  to end up with continued military control of the nation

is indeed laughable! 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Eligius