Affirmation certificate from British embassy not being accepted by Thai government

[timewilltell]

14 hours ago, PREM-R said:

I received this email from UK Gov

 

 

Thailand travel advice

01-09-2016 15:47 PM GMT

Latest update: Summary – if you’re intending to marry in Thailand, some registry authorities are not accepting Affirmation of Marriage documents issued by the British Embassy in Thailand; you should check with your local registrar or district office where you intend to register your marriage if they will accept an Affirmation for Marriage from the British Embassy

Provided by GOV.UK. Contact us to ask questions or report problems.

 

Ha - the usual crap from the Embassy.  The marriage registrar will likely not have a clue until you ask him, probably say go ahead and when you go to CW to get the MOI stamped Thai version either they will refuse it or the registrar will have found the letter they sent him the week before and thus refuse to honour what he said when you asked him earlier and it will all be YOUR problem.  I hate this crap - exactly what is the Embassy for if they cannot even provide a form the country they are in now require.  This should be what the Embassy discusses and agrees with whoever as they are in the position to ask and get answers whereas us individuals will be sent from pillar to post, end up going around in circles and be none the wiser because no Thai officer will have a clue and be able to tell you but will refuse to tell you that he doesn't have a clue because that would be losing face.  What a nightmare.

[timewilltell]

10 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Maybe this new affirmation will be a lot stricter.Delving into peoples past and history.Asking for birth certificates and Mothers and Fathers details and addresses.And proof thereof.Maybe a letter of confirmation from an official body,such as their doctor,or a former employer. Giving details that can be checked.Especially an enhanced police check for any hidden sexual crimes or terrorist offences.

Perhaps the Thai authorities are actually  beginning to want to know who is marrying a Thai citizen and for what reasons.

If this is a security risk prevention exercise,then,  i say good,about time.This move gives the idea that the junta actually,now believes that they are,perhaps not entirely free of terrorist interest,and that this pocket of Asia could be  next on the agenda.Making it possible for a runaway husband,who only married to gain a little respect,and has other reasons in mind,to be tracked and traced more easily.

 

More likely just some new guy taken over and needs to satisfy his petty ego with a few new nonsensical requirements that they haven't even thought up yet.

[timewilltell]

14 hours ago, benjybkk said:

Thanks PREM-R.

 

But we don't have any idea why or what is being done about it? 

 

Personally we are happy to register the marriage at any district office in Bangkok or Nonthaburi so even if some are not accepting the British affirmation it would just be a case of finding one office that would? Am I correct in that assumption do you think?

 

Cheers

Ben

 

The OP says the Embassy said the Thai government said the UK Embassy form along with some other Embassy forms are not good enough.  The form has to be stamped by the Ministry of the Interior (Thai Translation) - so having paid for the form and run around half of Bangkok you may find the MOI refuses to stamp it.  Or not.  If not you will be running all over Bangkoki trying to find an office to accept a form you are not sure of and you can be sure they will be clueless so if you get past the MOI you will be taking a potshot with the body at the registrar office who have also probably had a letter from the MOI about it.  I am not sure but wasting two days on a fools errand does not seem a good waste of time.  If you succeed though please let me know :-)

[benjybkk]

Thanks to everyone for their time and comments.

 

I called the British embassy in BKK again yesterday and spoke to a different lady there. She told me the issue was actually about taking something OFF the form. As in someone on the Thai side has decided something on the form shouldn't be on it. She couldn't give me further details though. 

 

That would imply that it's nothing to do with security.

 

In regards to time frame of getting this resolved she said it definitely would be a matter of days or at worst weeks but no way months.

 

Personally I live here so I don't have to worry about my return flight leaving tomorrow or anything like that. I am however in a rush as this is holding me up with my marriage plans obviously. I am going to give it a week or so and hopefully it will be sorted out by then.

 

Cheers,

Ben

[choke dee]

19 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Why would they want your parents birth certificates? ?have you ever seen your parents birth certificates I know I haven't. They had a copy of my birth certificate when I got my affirmation to marry. And a translated copy. I can see the logic of a police check but that would need to be done in your mother country as well as here. Like a now CRB check in UK. But then again does any other country want this for marriage! !!!. How apart from 90 day reports the much dicussed sim traker are they going to track you??. 

My thoughts make the foreign ID card mandotory not dependent on yellow book. And given out by immigration for anyone on a extension of stay or long term Visa. Put a chip in it then every 6 months you go to immigration in person (no more anyone can do it where they can scan card and see its you. If you move no problem same procedure as it is now and they update ID card.

Same as usual in Phillipinnes. Its called ACR Card and costs 50 Dollars per year additional !

[jeepsterman]

I went to the Lak Si district office in Chaeng Wattana yesterday and got married.  My visa processor warned us yesterday about this problem about Indians faking their paperwork to get married and that the US affirmation document has the same wording as the Indian embassy document, that "this affirmation is not a 'guarantee' of current status..."  Was told that 'not guaranteed' was the problem and that the Thai government has stopped temporarily taking any document with this type of wording.   My Visa consultant called several district offices and found that this one was still allowing for the affirmation for USA.

[Toknarok]

     The Thai authorities are not accepting affirmation certificates from the American embassy either, however this does not appear (at present) to be a hard and fast rule at all offices.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Not so defensive.Purely correcting my error in missing a comma,which would have made the statement mean absolutely a different thing.

Also I am putting forward questions and theories that i see pertinent to the post.I am sorry if you took it the wrong way,but then thats a common thing on here.

[bo jangles]

On 9/3/2016 at 4:53 AM, jeepsterman said:

I went to the Lak Si district office in Chaeng Wattana yesterday and got married.  My visa processor warned us yesterday about this problem about Indians faking their paperwork to get married and that the US affirmation document has the same wording as the Indian embassy document, that "this affirmation is not a 'guarantee' of current status..."  Was told that 'not guaranteed' was the problem and that the Thai government has stopped temporarily taking any document with this type of wording.   My Visa consultant called several district offices and found that this one was still allowing for the affirmation for USA.

My wife was talking about this,, she was saying something about fake paperwork 

[benjybkk]

Hi all. Thanks to all those who commented on my post. The situation is resolved now. I had my appointment at the British embassy this morning and got the affirmation certificate. 

 

I was told whatever the problem was it has since been sorted.

 

Cheers

Ben

[MissAndry]

On 9/2/2016 at 3:09 PM, Deepinthailand said:

Why would they want your parents birth certificates? ?have you ever seen your parents birth certificates I know I haven't.

 

Off topic,

I have nearly all my families birth certificates and marriage certificates going back around 200 years.

[Deepinthailand]

3 hours ago, MissAndry said:

 

Off topic,

I have nearly all my families birth certificates and marriage certificates going back around 200 years.

Whatever floats your boat

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, MissAndry said:

 

Off topic,

I have nearly all my families birth certificates and marriage certificates going back around 200 years.

Really!

Assuming a 25 year generation gap, and no inbreeding within your family, there could be as many as 1,022 ancestors above you.

[MissAndry]

14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Really!

Assuming a 25 year generation gap, and no inbreeding within your family, there could be as many as 1,022 ancestors above you.

 

Forty year gaps, and I also reproduced at 39 and 41. Just to keep the tradition going.

(My dad and mum were born in 1910, and 1914, their parents in the 1870-1880s .... so about 20 birth certificates, I don't have them all). My 2 youngest are still at high school, and I'm near 60.

Edited September 6, 2016 by MissAndry

[thaihome]

Worth noting that the OP started this thread by saying he was told that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was refusing to do the certificate of translation when in fact it appears that some district offices were refusing to accept the UK freedom to marry affidavit.  Big difference as you can go to any district to get marriage certificate, but only the MoFA does the translation certification. 

 

Reminds me of the issues in discussing visas and extensions to stay. Semantics are important.

TH  

[Deepinthailand]

12 minutes ago, thaihome said:

Worth noting that the OP started this thread by saying he was told that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was refusing to do the certificate of translation when in fact it appears that some district offices were refusing to accept the UK freedom to marry affidavit.  Big difference as you can go to any district to get marriage certificate, but only the MoFA does the translation certification. 

 

Reminds me of the issues in discussing visas and extensions to stay. Semantics are important.

TH  

I belive you may have misread the op.

[thaihome]

7 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

I belive you may have misread the op.

 

From the OP

...pay the fee of 50 pounds and take a chance at CW as to whether they accepted it. 

 

Nowhere as it been said in many threads that the MoFA at CW is refusing to do the translation  certificate, only that some districts are refusing to accept the form. How have i misread the OP?

TH 

[Deepinthailand]

55 minutes ago, thaihome said:

 

From the OP

 

 

 

Nowhere as it been said in many threads that the MoFA at CW is refusing to do the translation  certificate, only that some districts are refusing to accept the form. How have i misread the OP?

TH 

The whole of th op was about Wether CW would accept it people misread thinking amphur would not accept

[thaihome]

4 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

The whole of th op was about Wether CW would accept it people misread thinking amphur would not accept

That was my point. ?

 

The British embassy never said the MoFA at CW was the issue, it's some district offices not accepting the form (see the post with the communication from the British embassy ). Nothing to do with the translation certification.  The OP misunderstood what the the Consulate employee told him or did not know the difference between the MoFA certification and the district offices where you get married.

TH

 

[Deepinthailand]

21 minutes ago, thaihome said:

That was my point. ?

 

The British embassy never said the MoFA at CW was the issue, it's some district offices not accepting the form (see the post with the communication from the British embassy ). Nothing to do with the translation certification.  The OP misunderstood what the the Consulate employee told him or did not know the difference between the MoFA certification and the district offices where you get married.

TH

 

I'm not disputing what you say I was nearly pointing out the op which has nothing to do with local Amphur but that was misread by lots including Mr to mean amphur till I re read it.

[SimonD]

This topic is of great interest to me as I plan on getting married in Thailand later this year.

 

This is the latest statement on UK Government website: Marriage Abroad - Thailand

 

Marriage in Thailand

A number of registry authorities in Thailand are not accepting affirmations or affidavits for marriage. The British embassy is seeking urgent clarification. Check with the local registrar or district office where you’re getting married to find out if they will accept these documents.

Contact the Embassy of Thailand before making any plans to find out about local marriage laws, including what documents you’ll need.

You should get legal advice and check the travel advice for Thailand before making any plans.

You must register your marriage at an amphur office (district office) in Thailand - a religious ceremony on its own won’t be valid.

 

website: https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/thailand/uk/partner_local/opposite_sex

 

So it seems the problem is at amphur level (district office), not MoFA at Chang Wattana.

Simon

[benjybkk]

Yeah. Hold my hands up. I didn't fully understand that it was the amphoe offices turning down the affirmation not the MFA.

 

I do now though. Yesterday I went to Bang Rak amphoe to get married and was simply told no British, Indian, Chinese or Russian citizens can get married in Bangkok currently as they are not accepting the affirmations. The problem is that the affirmations say the embassies take no responsibility for any lies told or consequences of any kind.

 

I went to a different amphoe office, smaller one in Bangkok and it looks like I will be getting married. It can't be done in one day anymore though. We had to submit the documents and they should call us with a date to go and register our marriage. They went through all forms with a fine tooth comb.

 

Also, foreigners need THREE witnesses and you have to bring your own. They will not be provided by the amphoe office.

 

All 3 MUST be Thai and one of them MUST be able to speak good English. They say it is necessary and now part of the rules. The translator cannot be your spouse. Must be a different person. And even if you speak fluent Thai you must still have the Thai person who can speak English.

 

I'm waiting for a call to say everything is ok and we can go to get married. Fingers crossed.

 

 

[lopburi3]

Actually suspect the witness can be other people at amphoe awaiting service as has been the case in the past.  Also most offices always wanted an unofficial translator to to avoid any later claim that you were forced to sign a Thai document you did not understand - that document sets preconditions of marriage so could be abused if you are not aware of what is written down.  

[sometimewoodworker]

10 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually suspect the witness can be other people at amphoe awaiting service as has been the case in the past.  Also most offices always wanted an unofficial translator to to avoid any later claim that you were forced to sign a Thai document you did not understand - that document sets preconditions of marriage so could be abused if you are not aware of what is written down.  

Lak Sii Ket near the MOF supplies witness and a translator, for a very small fee, and is very familiar with the process. They probably have quite a few mixed marriages every week. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by sometimewoodworker

[benjybkk]

But at the moment I believe Laksi office along with every other office in Bangkok is not issuing marriages between British and Thai people.

 

I tried Bang Rak last week. No good. And then Bang Plad on Charansanitwong road. Also no good even after them saying they could at first. The affirmation is not being accepted from the British embassy.

 

Tomorrow we are going to try in Nonthaburi as that is a different province to Bangkok so maybe it will be ok.

 

I'm not holding my breath though. The whole thing is farcical. 

[lopburi3]

Actually have read that Embassy has stated that was a misunderstanding and that offices should now accept UK/USA and the others that were in question.

[benjybkk]

The embassy is saying the problem is solved. The Amphoe offices disagree though and as far as they are concerned the British embassy hasn't resolved the problem as the affirmations still have the clause at the bottom saying they do not guarantee the information.

 

I went just last week and was told this on Friday. I can assure you. It is not Ok. British can marry British. They don't care about that but they will not register marriages between British and Thais in Bangkok at the moment.

[benjybkk]

Just an update.

 

The Bang Plad office on Charansanitwong road in Bangkok called us last Friday saying they couldn't register the marriage for the same reason. Disclaimer on the affirmation.

I went and collected all the documents back yesterday and called the British embassy.

 

The embassy said there had been a meeting last week at the MFA and it had been confirmed this issue was resolved and the affirmations would be accepted. They even had proof in the form of a Thai letter. She said if I had any problems to give them the phone and let them talk to the embassy.

 

Off we went to Laksi office. Got there and same old rubbish. Cannot accept it. I flatly refused to leave and they spoke to the British embassy. Even after faxes, emails etc etc of this letter confirming the meeting last week after 2 hours the lady just said "no cannot" and pointed to the disclaimer. On a sidenote I've been here 6 years and I speak good Thai. I had the whole argument with her in Thai and she just kept saying they couldn't accept this document.

 

Gave up. Went to Nonthaburi. All be it next door to Bangkok but still a different province.

 

They were very nice there unlike at Laksi. However they said the process was now to take the forms and send them to be checked and confirmed as true. Then once this had happened they would call us in to register our marriage. They said this could take anywhere between 2 weeks to 2 months.

 

So I just submitted the paperwork. They had a pile of paperwork from other foreigners who had done the same.

 

They also said that British was good. If the nationality was Russian, Indian or any African country they WOULD NOT accept the paperwork.

 

I called the British embassy after. They have no idea about this "checking" process and where the affidavits will go to be "confirmed as true". 

 

The embassy is looking into it and trying to sort it out again and will call me back.

 

Any information or accounts of personal experiences over yesterday or today would be extremely welcome and helpful.

 

I'm a bit baffled as to why there isn't much more talk of this on this site. There is on other sites but very little here. I don't get it. I can't be the only person experiencing this..

 

Thanks

[lopburi3]

Perhaps you are the only person with enough extra time to post.  Expect the ladies are not be too happy with the foreigner and that is taking up most of there time.  

 

As for checking document that has always been a requirement AFAIK.  But it was normally done after the fact or while you were there with a phone call to MFA - they only need to confirm the MFA registered copy exists (or that used to be the case).

 

It not just Immigration.

 

[ukmark67]

Any developments on the acceptance of FTM from the British embassy yet guys?