Tenant refuses to pay rent, refuses to leave resort

[simon43]

It is Saturday and I am unable to contact my lawyer until Monday.

 

I own a small hotel resort in Phuket, which was built by me on land that I lease long-term (15 years).

 

3 months ago, needing a break and rest, I leased the resort business to a Thai guy.  The 2-year lease contract stipulated that he must pay a rent of 120,000 baht, payable every 2 months on the 10th of the month.

 

He paid the first payment of 120,000 baht OK on 10th June.  But on 10th August (last month), he did not pay.  On the 12th of that month he said that he only wanted to lease the resort for 1 more month and paid me 60,000 baht for that 1 month, citing that he had a 2-year lease.

 

Today, he refused to pay a further 60,000 baht lease fee and refused to vacate my resort for non-payment of this lease fee!

 

I was unable to reach any agreement with him and I therefore locked the guestroom doors and called the cops.

 

The police came, listened to both sides of the story and declared that it was a Civil matter, (which it is), and that we should contact our lawyers and go to Court if neccessary.  Meanwhile, I have to give the guy the room keys, even though he has failed to pay the lease fee for the next month.

 

BTW, the guy who rented my resort turns out to be addicted to Krathom, (which I wasn't aware of before I leased the resort to him). I have documented complaints from customers about his abusive behaviour, threatening guests with a gun, stealing a guest's laptop from his bag, being too 'stoned' to look after the resort guests etc.  His appalling behaviour has all but destroyed the good credibility of my resort and I am forced to change the trading name, to try to win back my guests.

 

What the hell can I do?  I know that it will take months to go to Court.  Meanwhile, this guy is happily occupying my resort.  I know that if I win at Court, which I should do, I will get nothing in damages or lease fee from this guy.  It will only cost me....

 

Don't bother with the 'only invest as much as you can afford to lose etc'.  Does anyone have previous experience of what to legally do to get him out - quickly?

[Ronuk]

Leasing land as a foreigner and sub leasing back to a Thai....I see this ending badly.

[johng]

Legal or not shut off water and electricity and see how long he lasts without.

[chiang mai]

A Big Ouch and an even bigger sorry!

 

My thoughts as to options:

 

 - cut off his supply or customers and be prepared to take the business down to zero and rebuild it when you get it back, all whilst waiting for action by the courts - cutting utility supplies might be a part of this. The objective here is to starve him of income.

 

 - possession is nine tenths, do you know people who could remove him, harmlessly of course!

 

 - sit back and wait for a court date, in the meantime take up yoga to relax, consider meditation et al.

 

I hope you find the right answer, soon.

 

 

 

[Anthony5]

How long do you live in Thailand.

 

"Friend up" a Thai policeman, pay him the required friendship fee, and he will get the guy out faster than you can say get out of here.

[Peterw42]

Possibly get the owner involved, ie: the terms of your lease with the owner. He may have included a couple of clauses and can pull rank and get rid of the guy.

[lemonjelly]

Threatening people with a gun.... Is the victim still contactable? Take that to the RTP, should be enough to get rid of him, and the Kratom abuse.... are the local cops aware of this.... have a rant about it on FB, post it in Thai, seems to get results 

Edited September 10, 2016 by lemonjelly

[simon43]

Quote

 

"Friend up" a Thai policeman, pay him the required friendship fee, and he will get the guy out faster than you can say get out of here.
 

 

 

The guy is a drug addict (krathom and with a police record), but still seems to be on good terms with the local police guys.

 

Quote

 

Threatening people with a gun.... Is the victim still contactable? Take that to the RTP, should be enough to get rid of him.
 

 

 

The victims were 2 Chinese female tourists who were scared of their lives and ran screaming into the nearby woods.  They lodged a written complaint with the Chinese Consulate who have demanded an explanation of <deleted> is going on.  The police seem uninterested to help

 

Yes, I can cut the websites off completely - but I don't think it is lack of business income that worries him (he has no profit right now, due to his appalling customer service...).  He and his 3 Thai friends/business partners just want a free place to live

 

Edit: How can I cut off the electricity? He can just switch it on again...

 

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by simon43

[DipStick]

Shutting off utilities only hurts the remaining guests, considering the Simons description of the Thai guy, my guess is it won't phase him

[simon43]

Shutting off utilities only hurts the remaining guests,

 

If I close all the websites, then that strangles his revenue stream because he will only have walk-in guests, who are few.

 

If he doesn't pay the electricity bill himself, they will cut him off.  I am on good terms with the local PEA office boss and can explain the situation to him.

 

My worry is that it could take months to go to Court.  Even with a Court Order for him to leave the resort, how does this work if he still refuses to go?

 

Truly, truly, my life is full of bad luck

 

 

[AlexRRR]

Stay calm, close the website, get urself a good lawyer, there are channels available to get into court quicker, once a court order has been made there are processes to have him evicted, unless he has a load of money somewhere to fight you he will run out so throw everything at him the more cases against him there he has to spend to defend himself...get the picture?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I also thought about the idea of cutting the utilities. But then I also thought, if you start going down that road, if he's the kind of guy you say, he could very well end up trashing your facilities during the weeks/months it will take to dislodge him.

 

The Thai local approach, I presume, would be to hire some local folks, either enforcers or off-duty police, and have the guy and his associated forcibly kicked out. That seems to regularly work for the Thais in such situations, though I'm not sure how well it's going to work for one of us.

 

PS -- Thank you for reminding me why I never wanted/want to do any kind of business in Thailand.

[simon43]

I will speak with my lawyer on Monday.  In a previous phone call, she said that I would have a strong case to also sue him for damages to my business reputation/good customer standing.

 

I cannot do anything heavy-handed - he lives in the same area as me.

 

I know exactly what he is doing.  It is the 'let's bully the lone farang so that we can live at the resort for free'.  This guy and his 3 business partners have other jobs at the nearby airport etc.  They use the resort as a residual income generator, a nice place to sleep and a nice place to brew up their illegal krathom, (which the local police are fully aware of and for which they do nothing...)

 

Once the guest bookings have dried up, I could lock all the room doors.  But as mentioned, this guy would be quite happy to trash my resort and get away with it.

 

I think any face-to-face meetings with this guy should have my lawyer present.

[lostinisaan]

Today, he refused to pay a further 60,000 baht lease fee and refused to vacate my resort for non-payment of this lease fee!

 

       Please spend some time and Google several countries' laws regarding that matter. If you'd have an apartment rented to a social weak person who isn't able to pay the rent, you can't just kick them out.

 

         AS you know the cops are trying to make a settlement, only if that doesn't work it will go to court. It's finally only a matter who pays more to the cops. Or who's got the batter lawyer.

 

   But that will be a very expensive way to go. Better make sure that you know how much you've lost and let it be. 

 

         What's bad for you is that you're not a Thai citizen and you'd need a real good lawyer who's fighting for you, not just asking for payments without having done anything.

 

        Check the Thai laws, I'm pretty sure that there's a period where they've got the right to look for a new place.

 

          Best of luck, it seems that you started a windmill fight. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by lostinisaan

[returnofthailand]

get him arrested for drug consumption.

[simon43]

get him arrested for drug consumption.

 

Were it so easy.  In this area, many (MANY) local men drink Krathom.  The police raid from time to time and the guilty person has to pay about 50,000 THB to the police or face jail time.

 

The local police have warned others in the area that this guy brews and sells Krathom, but they will not arrest him...

 

I will see my lawyer on Monday and decide my next move.  The annoying thing is that it may take months to go to Court, get a damages case against him, get a Court Order to evict him etc, but I suspect that this guy doesn't have the funds to pay me didly squat.

 

There is one other option which my landlord (the guy whom I lease the land from).  If I don't pay the land rent for 3 months, he can repossess the land and the buildings on it.  He has already told me that he wants to do this and then re-rent it back to me.  But can I trust him??

[DipStick]

Simon, it appears to me that you are between a rock and a hard place, it also appears that this guy is taking huge advantages. May I ask was the rental agreement solely between you and him, or were there lawyers involved who drew up the contracts.

if it was solely between you two then that hard place gets harder. HOWEVER, an agreement is an agreement, and if he has let you down and basically cheated you, then I see no problems with you taking all the keys back and shutting off utilities.

i earlier said that this action would rebound on present guests, but is it possible those who are staying there are his friends etc.

sure as has been mentioned, he could trash the place, but if you could take pictures before and after and have a security person present then you have the advantage surely.

 

Very difficult one and it seems the only loser will be you. I wish you luck 

[simon43]

The lease agreement was the 'standard' lease document that you can buy at any stationers.  Although simple, it clearly states in this signed agreement that the leasee has to pay 120k THB every 2 months.  In fact, the guy fully agrees with this - he simply doesn't want to pay because he blames me for the fact that he hasn't made a profit during the 3 months that he has leased the resort!

 

My retort was that aiming a gun at guests and being continually stoned out of his head and brewing up krathom in the hotel kitchen, in full view of the guests, is not normally conjusive to making a business profit, but he denies all these events, even though the customers have lodged complaints in writing with the various travel websites.

 

The bottom line is that he and his friends are bullies and think that they can get away with squatting at my resort and destroying my business reputation.  Indeed, he is managing to do this!

 

The only guests who stay are overseas tourists, especially Chinese, and so their complaints are no doubt doing wonders for welcoming overseas visitors to Phuket.

 

After speaking on Monday with my lawyer, I am tempted to lodge a complaint with the Damrong.. (never know the name) and with the Governor, since he is keen on welcoming the Chinese to Phuket.

 

As I said, he is nothing but a bully with some local police in his pocket.  I need to keep calm, speak with my lawyer and then take whatever action is required to kick him out.  But I know that the only financial loser will be me

Edited September 10, 2016 by simon43

[lemonjelly]

Walk into the local police station, tell them that if they refuse to do anything (re: gun threat, Kratom etc.), you'll contact police HQ in BKK, and kickING up a stink on FB might help

[DipStick]

18 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

Walk into the local police station, tell them that if they refuse to do anything (re: gun threat, Kratom etc.), you'll contact police HQ in BKK, and kickING up a stink on FB might help

Lemonjelly, whilst your post is accepted as trying to be helpful, you don't seem to grasp that the police in Thailand operate as a mafia /triad establishment, meaning BKK HQ

 would not get involved, and why should they ? It's not their patch, and as for FB , by which I think you mean Facebook, well that's just laughable as from what I understand that's solely for posers And egotisticals. Simon is in a bad situation, maybe because of his own doing and needs suggestions, and as sure as eggs are eggs Facebook, Twitter, WHATSAPP are certainly at the bottom of the list. 

[simon43]

I should do nothing until I give the full details to my lawyer on Monday and then hear their advice.  Jai yen yen.

 

As for the local police, I'm not sure why they are in his pocket.  He is not rich, but everyone (except me) knows that he sells krathom in the locality.  So I suppose the police guys get their free drinks.

 

I wonder if the good PM's soldiers would be interested in clearing up this mess, especially with all the complaints from Chinese guests...

 

Anyway, this is going to cost me money, time and reputation.

[tonray]

Perhaps you could force him to hire your niece as she has a degree in the hospitality area. If she is as described, he will be begging you to take back possession of her and the resort in no time.

[simon43]

Perhaps you could force him to hire your niece as she has a degree in the hospitality area. If she is as described, he will be begging you to take back possession of her and the resort in no time

 

Off topic:  Actually that particular niece has just secured a job at a popular resort in Khao Sok where the western owner wants to **** her.  This desire apparently renders any incompetence on her part to do the job irrelevant 

 

[blackcab]

Whose name are the utilities in?

 

Be prepared to have anything expensive removed by the tenant. Aircon units, catering equipment, doors, pumps, electrical items, beds, anything that can be sold.

 

You won't be able to do a thing because no inventory was taken and included in the contract. The guy can just say he arrived back at the resort and he found it that way. 

[surangw]

if the situation was reversed, you would be visited by some  thugs to convince you   to pay or move

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The Thai local approach, I presume, would be to hire some local folks, either enforcers or off-duty police, and have the guy and his associated forcibly kicked out. That seems to regularly work for the Thais in such situations, though I'm not sure how well it's going to work for one of us.

 

That option certainly sounds tempting to me.

 

 

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thank you for reminding me why I never wanted/want to do any kind of business in Thailand.

 

Cant argue with that. I would rather pull my own fingernails than enter into any sort of partnership with anyone here.

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

Truly, truly, my life is full of bad luck

 

I dont think that luck has anything to do with it. Misplaced trust seems to be at the root of this problem. I think the only valid procedure here is never to trust anyone with anything that you arent prepared to lose. It works for me anyway.

[SoiBiker]

It seems that you have been able to successfully discover quite a lot about this guy - his drug habits, chosen lifestyle, associates etc.

 

Rather unfortunate that you weren't diligent enough to conduct this research before you allowed him access to the property. 

[simon43]

 

Rather unfortunate that you weren't diligent enough to conduct this research before you allowed him access to the property. 

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

[1FinickyOne]

No answers for you Simon, but plenty of sympathies... the world would be a better place if people would do what they say... 

 

Business holds risks and we should always try and calculate worst case scenarios. Nothing left to do but leave it in the hands of a good lawyer and then start again, if you want.