British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[DiscoDan]

To all the posters who are saying Andy Hall is innocent can you please show me some evidence that the claims he made were true ?

 

and don't bother replying with excuses I just want to see the evidence e.g video of children working in the factory etc

[soalbundy]

23 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

It will be interesting to see if/how the Brit. Embassy get involved.

''We are helping his family during this difficult time,'' give that out to the press immediately would you John, any Gin Tonic left ?

[stander]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Umh....

He has hasn't, he?
Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom?

Or would you like him to go down there, pick them up using a pen ( just like "Columbo" does), put them in a bag, have them forensically tested and then personally present you with the results?

Just how much proof do you need for goodness sake?

I have seen no proof of this claim, all that the poster has to do is show a link or photos, otherwise as I say it's just the usual tittle-tattle.

[dick dasterdly]

Does anyone know whether he has been able to pay the 150,000 bht (?) yet - and been released?

[jcsmith]

Just adding to the pile of human rights violations in recent years. I wish him luck.

[DM07]

6 hours ago, stander said:

Government inspectors visited and still visit the process plant regularly and no serious issues have been found, so there is no reason for Natural fruits to "clean up their act".

Very good!

Government inspector of the Thai- government inspect a Thai- company and look for signs of slavery and SURPRISE...they find nothing!

Who'd have though!?! 

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Very good!

Government inspector of the Thai- government inspect a Thai- company and look for signs of slavery and SURPRISE...they find nothing!

Who'd have though!?! 

 

3 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Very good!

Government inspector of the Thai- government inspect a Thai- company and look for signs of slavery and SURPRISE...they find nothing!

Who'd have though!?! 

and don't forget that they would be warned of an inspection,exact time and day, weeks ahead.

[Shaunduhpostman]

6 hours ago, joeyg said:

friends ask me what Thailand is like.  One of the things i often say is you really have to try hard to get in trouble here.  Unlike the Nanny United States.  Thailand is pretty cool...  I fought "the Man" for years in the streets .  Took my lumps, wound up in jail and have a record because of it.  I gave it a good shot  and did things I won't state in an open forum.  I gave up.  You gotta pick your battles.  If this is yours stop talking and do something about it.

 

Talking about it is doing something, Joey. People work out their positions by discussing these things, sharing information etc. in the face of multi-national news monopolies that don't discuss the issues by and large and don't keep us informed about what is being done to us, we talk in th eface of repression for just having said something. I could go to prison for everything I post on here, so honest and informed talk is not cheap, it is part and parcel of an open and free society, and I won't stop talking because it is our right and it is essential that we talk.

[Tatsujin]

3 hours ago, dwcrist said:

Thailand, where standing up for human rights gets you a prison sentence.

 

"No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty."

 

What about Thai power over Thai sovereignty? Don't they even care that the sovereign Thai Law, which forbids the alleged abuses, may have been broken? What this statement means to me: "Foreigners and workers don't have rights, influential Thais can do what they want regardless of the law. *cite countless cases of DWI vehicular manslaughter.

 

And people wonder why foreign investment and human rights/trafficking ranking are so bad? Wake Up!

 

It's ignorance again, but to be expected I guess.

 

Any perceived "attack" against any Thai or Thai business, seems to automatically then be associated (in their tiny little minds) as an attack against the monarchy and Thailand itself, despite the fact that it's they themselves breaking their own laws or agreements that they signed up to. No wonder investments etc have plummeted here, and they won't be going back up any time soon either if they carry on as they are.

 

I had hoped things would improve here, but they just seem to be sliding backwards into even more extreme nationailistic fervor every day, whilst simultaneously blaming everyone else for everything as they are so perfect and never do wrong or break their own < deleted > laws.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Tatsujin said:

 

It's ignorance again, but to be expected I guess.

 

Any perceived "attack" against any Thai or Thai business, seems to automatically then be associated (in their tiny little minds) as an attack against the monarchy and Thailand itself, despite the fact that it's they themselves breaking their own laws or agreements that they signed up to. No wonder investments etc have plummeted here, and they won't be going back up any time soon either if they carry on as they are.

 

I had hoped things would improve here, but they just seem to be sliding backwards into even more extreme nationailistic fervor every day, whilst simultaneously blaming everyone else for everything as they are so perfect and never do wrong or break their own < deleted > laws.

If trouble within, seek the enemy outside the gates

[anon7867763]

On 20/09/2016 at 2:08 PM, joeyg said:

Yes but their, country, their courts, their rules, their mob.  Know the terrain and enemy capabilities.  Adjust logistics.

Like dont complain.Accept all injustices.Whatever you say I admire this man

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, DiscoDan said:

To all the posters who are saying Andy Hall is innocent can you please show me some evidence that the claims he made were true ?

 

and don't bother replying with excuses I just want to see the evidence e.g video of children working in the factory etc

Video of children working?

 

Wrong case mate, no allegations of children working in Natural Fruit were made in Finnwatch Report, look it up if you want to find out, the executive summary is still on the web

[DiscoDan]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Video of children working?

 

Wrong case mate, no allegations of children working in Natural Fruit were made in Finnwatch Report, look it up if you want to find out, the executive summary is still on the web

Evidence of any of the claims will do I was just giving an example, 

[Dogmatix]

The owner of Natural Fruit's comment about foreigners perceiving themselves as above Thai sovereignty is absurd.  Andy Hall was not seeking to unseat the Thai government by revolution or to assert foreign extraterritoriality  and immunity from prosecution.  He was reporting to Finnwatch on a Thai company that was allegedly in violation of Thai labour laws on behalf of Finnish consumers who are entitled to be concerned about how their products are produced in foreign countries.  I hope they will exercise their discretion under Finnish law and sovereignty and buy elsewhere.   Natural Fruit will still be able sell its products to China and African countries that don't care about human rights. 

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, JAG said:

Umh....

He has hasn't, he?
Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom?

Or would you like him to go down there, pick them up using a pen ( just like "Columbo" does), put them in a bag, have them forensically tested and then personally present you with the results?

Just how much proof do you need for goodness sake?

 

I think the anwer is: he doesn't want it.

[stander]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

I think the anwer is: he doesn't want it.

Okay Khun Han, can you tell where I can find the  "Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom"

[Deepinthailand]

18 hours ago, joeyg said:

I'm pretty sure all my shoes and shirts I bought in California were made in those factories.  Some electronics as well... 

+1 exactly freedom of choice great point

[Deepinthailand]

One of the things about this or any forum on any subject there will always be opposite conjecture, which is good but then with that comes the your wrong I'm right attitude closely followed on both side with let's see the evidence.

Now I don't like tree huggers/greenpeace/doogoders who come to a country funded by silly Joe public who actually give money to these groups instead of to the alleged victims of slave labor. I say alleged because he Mr Hall lost his case. From what I read presented no concrete evidence and slandered a in this case a Thai company or companies.

Now how much of mug Joe publics donated money was spent to get Hall here then to put him up and feed him, then pay the solicitors fee's for the case. Then undoubtedly pay his fine. And pay for him to stay and spout more unsubstantiated theories. Wold it not have been better for these doogoders to go and give money direct to the alleged child/slave labor. No don't be silly they won't get there 15 minutes of fame then would they. Mean while what has he actually achieved apart from getting a criminal record and a rather large pay check I expect.

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

One of the things about this or any forum on any subject there will always be opposite conjecture, which is good but then with that comes the your wrong I'm right attitude closely followed on both side with let's see the evidence.

Now I don't like tree huggers/greenpeace/doogoders who come to a country funded by silly Joe public who actually give money to these groups instead of to the alleged victims of slave labor. I say alleged because he Mr Hall lost his case. From what I read presented no concrete evidence and slandered a in this case a Thai company or companies.

Now how much of mug Joe publics donated money was spent to get Hall here then to put him up and feed him, then pay the solicitors fee's for the case. Then undoubtedly pay his fine. And pay for him to stay and spout more unsubstantiated theories. Wold it not have been better for these doogoders to go and give money direct to the alleged child/slave labor. No don't be silly they won't get there 15 minutes of fame then would they. Mean while what has he actually achieved apart from getting a criminal record and a rather large pay check I expect.

 

Your logic is absurd. The point of exposing immoral, illegal working practices is to stop them from happening. Supplementing badly paid/treated workers' wages externally doesn't get to the root of the problem.

 

The rest of your post is just speculative, ugly-minded nonsense.

[Deepinthailand]

24 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Your logic is absurd. The point of exposing immoral, illegal working practices is to stop them from happening. Supplementing badly paid/treated workers' wages externally doesn't get to the root of the problem.

 

The rest of your post is just speculative, ugly-minded nonsense.

Your logic is as I stated in my post. So you would have these dogooders close a company down therefore putting everyone out of work, thus making it even worse for anyone who was getting a wage now just to please the tree hugger brigade will get nothing very smart logic there then.

Ugly minded nonsense eh , why because I dare to ask how much this attention seeking fool is getting paid from donation money!!!!!!. Let him and the fools who fund him come clean.

[Bkk Brian]

Natural Fruit has a long history of intimidation of witnesses. In a previous defamation case with them that Andy Hall won there were serious allegations of intimidation as reported widely. Here's just one of those reports:

 

Thailand: Key migrant worker witness in defamation case against researcher Andy Hall seeks protection against death threats "It's alleged that the people intimidating the witness were carrying guns when they attended the court hearing and dropped bullets near the witness and his wife."

 

https://business-humanrights.org/en/thai-court-indicts-andy-hall-despite-ngos-calls-to-drop-charges-brought-by-natural-fruit-buyers-approached

Edited September 21, 2016 by Bkk Brian

[Deepinthailand]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Natural Fruit has a long history of intimidation of witnesses. In a previous defamation case with them that Andy Hall won there were serious allegations of intimidation as reported widely. Here's just one of those reports:

 

Thailand: Key migrant worker witness in defamation case against researcher Andy Hall seeks protection against death threats "It's alleged that the people intimidating the witness were carrying guns when they attended the court hearing and dropped bullets near the witness and his wife."

 

https://business-humanrights.org/en/thai-court-indicts-andy-hall-despite-ngos-calls-to-drop-charges-brought-by-natural-fruit-buyers-approached

The word allegations sums that one up. And the story is by ______ yes a dogooders bible similar to the Sun newspaper in UK with less truth and more fiction.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

The word allegations sums that one up. And the story is by ______ yes a dogooders bible similar to the Sun newspaper in UK with less truth and more fiction.

Perhaps not enough for you and 2 or 3 other posters on here to be concerned but enough for the witness to seek official protection and enough for the UK Government to raise it with their counterparts in Thailand.

[stander]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Natural Fruit has a long history of intimidation of witnesses. In a previous defamation case with them that Andy Hall won there were serious allegations of intimidation as reported widely. Here's just one of those reports:

 

Thailand: Key migrant worker witness in defamation case against researcher Andy Hall seeks protection against death threats "It's alleged that the people intimidating the witness were carrying guns when they attended the court hearing and dropped bullets near the witness and his wife."

 

https://business-humanrights.org/en/thai-court-indicts-andy-hall-despite-ngos-calls-to-drop-charges-brought-by-natural-fruit-buyers-approached

It's an allegation, not a verifiable report

 

Alleged

Adjective

(of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.

 

Verifiable

      Verb

      To prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, stander said:

It's an allegation, not a verifiable report

 

Alleged

Adjective

(of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.

 

Verifiable

      Verb

      To prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm.

Never said it was a verifiable report, thats your demand thats not needed by the UK goverment

Edited September 21, 2016 by Bkk Brian

[Deepinthailand]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Perhaps not enough for you and 2 or 3 other posters on here to be concerned but enough for the witness to seek official protection and enough for the UK Government to raise it with their counterparts in Thailand.

We can all cry allegations and by crying to government they think it validates there story. Of course if a UK national cries death threats a very low ranking official will follow it up. You see there are two theories to every story. The truth will come out eventually l.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

We can all cry allegations and by crying to government they think it validates there story. Of course if a UK national cries death threats a very low ranking official will follow it up. You see there are two theories to every story. The truth will come out eventually l.

Yes we can and I would like to think that when people do they are investigated seriously and impartially

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Your logic is as I stated in my post. So you would have these dogooders close a company down therefore putting everyone out of work, thus making it even worse for anyone who was getting a wage now just to please the tree hugger brigade will get nothing very smart logic there then.

Ugly minded nonsense eh , why because I dare to ask how much this attention seeking fool is getting paid from donation money!!!!!!. Let him and the fools who fund him come clean.

 

Yes, I would have these dogooders close a company that, instead of putting right it's poor workers' rights practices, tries to silence the dogooders. That is exactly what is now going to happen to Natural Fruit and it's pig-headed owner. And good riddance. They and their crappy jobs will be replaced by an ethical company that the West is happy to buy from. It's Darwin's law of natural selection applied to Thai business dinosaurs. How good is that?

[Khun Han]

50 minutes ago, stander said:

It's an allegation, not a verifiable report

 

Alleged

Adjective

(of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.

 

Verifiable

      Verb

      To prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm.

 

The British government has taken the allegations seriously, as have a whole plethora of human rights organisations. But not anonymous internet poster "stander" and his little gang of internet mates.....oh. well.....that's that then.

[Deepinthailand]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, I would have these dogooders close a company that, instead of putting right it's poor workers' rights practices, tries to silence the dogooders. That is exactly what is now going to happen to Natural Fruit and it's pig-headed owner. And good riddance. They and their crappy jobs will be replaced by an ethical company that the West is happy to buy from. It's Darwin's law of natural selection applied to Thai business dinosaurs. How good is that?

That sums it up perfectly so what about the very people he was supposed to be fighting for!!! Sod them then let them starve that's ok as long as the thing gets his way (which he wont) typical.