DiscoDan Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 To all the posters who are saying Andy Hall is innocent can you please show me some evidence that the claims he made were true ? and don't bother replying with excuses I just want to see the evidence e.g video of children working in the factory etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 23 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: It will be interesting to see if/how the Brit. Embassy get involved. ''We are helping his family during this difficult time,'' give that out to the press immediately would you John, any Gin Tonic left ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stander Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 2 hours ago, JAG said: Umh.... He has hasn't, he? Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom? Or would you like him to go down there, pick them up using a pen ( just like "Columbo" does), put them in a bag, have them forensically tested and then personally present you with the results? Just how much proof do you need for goodness sake? I have seen no proof of this claim, all that the poster has to do is show a link or photos, otherwise as I say it's just the usual tittle-tattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Does anyone know whether he has been able to pay the 150,000 bht (?) yet - and been released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Just adding to the pile of human rights violations in recent years. I wish him luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 6 hours ago, stander said: Government inspectors visited and still visit the process plant regularly and no serious issues have been found, so there is no reason for Natural fruits to "clean up their act". Very good! Government inspector of the Thai- government inspect a Thai- company and look for signs of slavery and SURPRISE...they find nothing! Who'd have though!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, DM07 said: Very good! Government inspector of the Thai- government inspect a Thai- company and look for signs of slavery and SURPRISE...they find nothing! Who'd have though!?! 3 minutes ago, DM07 said: Very good! Government inspector of the Thai- government inspect a Thai- company and look for signs of slavery and SURPRISE...they find nothing! Who'd have though!?! and don't forget that they would be warned of an inspection,exact time and day, weeks ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunduhpostman Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 6 hours ago, joeyg said: friends ask me what Thailand is like. One of the things i often say is you really have to try hard to get in trouble here. Unlike the Nanny United States. Thailand is pretty cool... I fought "the Man" for years in the streets . Took my lumps, wound up in jail and have a record because of it. I gave it a good shot and did things I won't state in an open forum. I gave up. You gotta pick your battles. If this is yours stop talking and do something about it. Talking about it is doing something, Joey. People work out their positions by discussing these things, sharing information etc. in the face of multi-national news monopolies that don't discuss the issues by and large and don't keep us informed about what is being done to us, we talk in th eface of repression for just having said something. I could go to prison for everything I post on here, so honest and informed talk is not cheap, it is part and parcel of an open and free society, and I won't stop talking because it is our right and it is essential that we talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 3 hours ago, dwcrist said: Thailand, where standing up for human rights gets you a prison sentence. "No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty." What about Thai power over Thai sovereignty? Don't they even care that the sovereign Thai Law, which forbids the alleged abuses, may have been broken? What this statement means to me: "Foreigners and workers don't have rights, influential Thais can do what they want regardless of the law. *cite countless cases of DWI vehicular manslaughter. And people wonder why foreign investment and human rights/trafficking ranking are so bad? Wake Up! It's ignorance again, but to be expected I guess. Any perceived "attack" against any Thai or Thai business, seems to automatically then be associated (in their tiny little minds) as an attack against the monarchy and Thailand itself, despite the fact that it's they themselves breaking their own laws or agreements that they signed up to. No wonder investments etc have plummeted here, and they won't be going back up any time soon either if they carry on as they are. I had hoped things would improve here, but they just seem to be sliding backwards into even more extreme nationailistic fervor every day, whilst simultaneously blaming everyone else for everything as they are so perfect and never do wrong or break their own < deleted > laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Tatsujin said: It's ignorance again, but to be expected I guess. Any perceived "attack" against any Thai or Thai business, seems to automatically then be associated (in their tiny little minds) as an attack against the monarchy and Thailand itself, despite the fact that it's they themselves breaking their own laws or agreements that they signed up to. No wonder investments etc have plummeted here, and they won't be going back up any time soon either if they carry on as they are. I had hoped things would improve here, but they just seem to be sliding backwards into even more extreme nationailistic fervor every day, whilst simultaneously blaming everyone else for everything as they are so perfect and never do wrong or break their own < deleted > laws. If trouble within, seek the enemy outside the gates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon7867763 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 20/09/2016 at 2:08 PM, joeyg said: Yes but their, country, their courts, their rules, their mob. Know the terrain and enemy capabilities. Adjust logistics. Like dont complain.Accept all injustices.Whatever you say I admire this man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 hour ago, DiscoDan said: To all the posters who are saying Andy Hall is innocent can you please show me some evidence that the claims he made were true ? and don't bother replying with excuses I just want to see the evidence e.g video of children working in the factory etc Video of children working? Wrong case mate, no allegations of children working in Natural Fruit were made in Finnwatch Report, look it up if you want to find out, the executive summary is still on the web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDan Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Video of children working? Wrong case mate, no allegations of children working in Natural Fruit were made in Finnwatch Report, look it up if you want to find out, the executive summary is still on the web Evidence of any of the claims will do I was just giving an example, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 The owner of Natural Fruit's comment about foreigners perceiving themselves as above Thai sovereignty is absurd. Andy Hall was not seeking to unseat the Thai government by revolution or to assert foreign extraterritoriality and immunity from prosecution. He was reporting to Finnwatch on a Thai company that was allegedly in violation of Thai labour laws on behalf of Finnish consumers who are entitled to be concerned about how their products are produced in foreign countries. I hope they will exercise their discretion under Finnish law and sovereignty and buy elsewhere. Natural Fruit will still be able sell its products to China and African countries that don't care about human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 4 hours ago, JAG said: Umh.... He has hasn't, he? Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom? Or would you like him to go down there, pick them up using a pen ( just like "Columbo" does), put them in a bag, have them forensically tested and then personally present you with the results? Just how much proof do you need for goodness sake? I think the anwer is: he doesn't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stander Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Khun Han said: I think the anwer is: he doesn't want it. Okay Khun Han, can you tell where I can find the "Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 18 hours ago, joeyg said: I'm pretty sure all my shoes and shirts I bought in California were made in those factories. Some electronics as well... +1 exactly freedom of choice great point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 One of the things about this or any forum on any subject there will always be opposite conjecture, which is good but then with that comes the your wrong I'm right attitude closely followed on both side with let's see the evidence. Now I don't like tree huggers/greenpeace/doogoders who come to a country funded by silly Joe public who actually give money to these groups instead of to the alleged victims of slave labor. I say alleged because he Mr Hall lost his case. From what I read presented no concrete evidence and slandered a in this case a Thai company or companies. Now how much of mug Joe publics donated money was spent to get Hall here then to put him up and feed him, then pay the solicitors fee's for the case. Then undoubtedly pay his fine. And pay for him to stay and spout more unsubstantiated theories. Wold it not have been better for these doogoders to go and give money direct to the alleged child/slave labor. No don't be silly they won't get there 15 minutes of fame then would they. Mean while what has he actually achieved apart from getting a criminal record and a rather large pay check I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said: One of the things about this or any forum on any subject there will always be opposite conjecture, which is good but then with that comes the your wrong I'm right attitude closely followed on both side with let's see the evidence. Now I don't like tree huggers/greenpeace/doogoders who come to a country funded by silly Joe public who actually give money to these groups instead of to the alleged victims of slave labor. I say alleged because he Mr Hall lost his case. From what I read presented no concrete evidence and slandered a in this case a Thai company or companies. Now how much of mug Joe publics donated money was spent to get Hall here then to put him up and feed him, then pay the solicitors fee's for the case. Then undoubtedly pay his fine. And pay for him to stay and spout more unsubstantiated theories. Wold it not have been better for these doogoders to go and give money direct to the alleged child/slave labor. No don't be silly they won't get there 15 minutes of fame then would they. Mean while what has he actually achieved apart from getting a criminal record and a rather large pay check I expect. Your logic is absurd. The point of exposing immoral, illegal working practices is to stop them from happening. Supplementing badly paid/treated workers' wages externally doesn't get to the root of the problem. The rest of your post is just speculative, ugly-minded nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 24 minutes ago, Khun Han said: Your logic is absurd. The point of exposing immoral, illegal working practices is to stop them from happening. Supplementing badly paid/treated workers' wages externally doesn't get to the root of the problem. The rest of your post is just speculative, ugly-minded nonsense. Your logic is as I stated in my post. So you would have these dogooders close a company down therefore putting everyone out of work, thus making it even worse for anyone who was getting a wage now just to please the tree hugger brigade will get nothing very smart logic there then. Ugly minded nonsense eh , why because I dare to ask how much this attention seeking fool is getting paid from donation money!!!!!!. Let him and the fools who fund him come clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Natural Fruit has a long history of intimidation of witnesses. In a previous defamation case with them that Andy Hall won there were serious allegations of intimidation as reported widely. Here's just one of those reports: Thailand: Key migrant worker witness in defamation case against researcher Andy Hall seeks protection against death threats "It's alleged that the people intimidating the witness were carrying guns when they attended the court hearing and dropped bullets near the witness and his wife." https://business-humanrights.org/en/thai-court-indicts-andy-hall-despite-ngos-calls-to-drop-charges-brought-by-natural-fruit-buyers-approached Edited September 21, 2016 by Bkk Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Natural Fruit has a long history of intimidation of witnesses. In a previous defamation case with them that Andy Hall won there were serious allegations of intimidation as reported widely. Here's just one of those reports: Thailand: Key migrant worker witness in defamation case against researcher Andy Hall seeks protection against death threats "It's alleged that the people intimidating the witness were carrying guns when they attended the court hearing and dropped bullets near the witness and his wife." https://business-humanrights.org/en/thai-court-indicts-andy-hall-despite-ngos-calls-to-drop-charges-brought-by-natural-fruit-buyers-approached The word allegations sums that one up. And the story is by ______ yes a dogooders bible similar to the Sun newspaper in UK with less truth and more fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Just now, Deepinthailand said: The word allegations sums that one up. And the story is by ______ yes a dogooders bible similar to the Sun newspaper in UK with less truth and more fiction. Perhaps not enough for you and 2 or 3 other posters on here to be concerned but enough for the witness to seek official protection and enough for the UK Government to raise it with their counterparts in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stander Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Natural Fruit has a long history of intimidation of witnesses. In a previous defamation case with them that Andy Hall won there were serious allegations of intimidation as reported widely. Here's just one of those reports: Thailand: Key migrant worker witness in defamation case against researcher Andy Hall seeks protection against death threats "It's alleged that the people intimidating the witness were carrying guns when they attended the court hearing and dropped bullets near the witness and his wife." https://business-humanrights.org/en/thai-court-indicts-andy-hall-despite-ngos-calls-to-drop-charges-brought-by-natural-fruit-buyers-approached It's an allegation, not a verifiable report Alleged Adjective (of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality. Verifiable Verb To prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, stander said: It's an allegation, not a verifiable report Alleged Adjective (of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality. Verifiable Verb To prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm. Never said it was a verifiable report, thats your demand thats not needed by the UK goverment Edited September 21, 2016 by Bkk Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Perhaps not enough for you and 2 or 3 other posters on here to be concerned but enough for the witness to seek official protection and enough for the UK Government to raise it with their counterparts in Thailand. We can all cry allegations and by crying to government they think it validates there story. Of course if a UK national cries death threats a very low ranking official will follow it up. You see there are two theories to every story. The truth will come out eventually l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said: We can all cry allegations and by crying to government they think it validates there story. Of course if a UK national cries death threats a very low ranking official will follow it up. You see there are two theories to every story. The truth will come out eventually l. Yes we can and I would like to think that when people do they are investigated seriously and impartially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said: Your logic is as I stated in my post. So you would have these dogooders close a company down therefore putting everyone out of work, thus making it even worse for anyone who was getting a wage now just to please the tree hugger brigade will get nothing very smart logic there then. Ugly minded nonsense eh , why because I dare to ask how much this attention seeking fool is getting paid from donation money!!!!!!. Let him and the fools who fund him come clean. Yes, I would have these dogooders close a company that, instead of putting right it's poor workers' rights practices, tries to silence the dogooders. That is exactly what is now going to happen to Natural Fruit and it's pig-headed owner. And good riddance. They and their crappy jobs will be replaced by an ethical company that the West is happy to buy from. It's Darwin's law of natural selection applied to Thai business dinosaurs. How good is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 50 minutes ago, stander said: It's an allegation, not a verifiable report Alleged Adjective (of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality. Verifiable Verb To prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm. The British government has taken the allegations seriously, as have a whole plethora of human rights organisations. But not anonymous internet poster "stander" and his little gang of internet mates.....oh. well.....that's that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, Khun Han said: Yes, I would have these dogooders close a company that, instead of putting right it's poor workers' rights practices, tries to silence the dogooders. That is exactly what is now going to happen to Natural Fruit and it's pig-headed owner. And good riddance. They and their crappy jobs will be replaced by an ethical company that the West is happy to buy from. It's Darwin's law of natural selection applied to Thai business dinosaurs. How good is that? That sums it up perfectly so what about the very people he was supposed to be fighting for!!! Sod them then let them starve that's ok as long as the thing gets his way (which he wont) typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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