May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[evadgib]

36 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's quite frightening that we are being led in the wrong direction by people who are so ill informed. I would not feel so bad if Brexiteers had a good grasp of the facts

Where are remainers re hanging and country sports & how did they reach their decisions?

 

Just curious :)

 

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

And after WW2, how much foreign aid and assistance was given to Germany to rebuild, and how much was given to the UK?

 

For several decades after WW2 the UK was still paying off lease-lend to the USA  even though the allies won the war. West Germany and Japan OTOH had their economies rebuilt by the USA which put them well ahead of the UK. Nor were West Germany or Japan actively involved in any wars, major or minor, or "peace keeping" missions until this century.

 

It is easy to spend less on the defence of your country when someone else is paying the bill and keeping the barbarians from your door.

[Orac]

 
For several decades after WW2 the UK was still paying off lease-lend to the USA  even though the allies won the war. West Germany and Japan OTOH had their economies rebuilt by the USA which put them well ahead of the UK. Nor were West Germany or Japan actively involved in any wars, major or minor, or "peace keeping" missions until this century.
 
It is easy to spend less on the defence of your country when someone else is paying the bill and keeping the barbarians from your door.

Also worth mentioning that for several decades after WW2 UK industry was using heavy machinery and equipment they took from Germany as reparations leading to a jump in productivity by Germany as they were forced to retool with more modern equipment whilst the UK sat back and relied on older gear - some of this equipment taken from Germany was still in use 40 years later.

Ironically the UK turned down the machinery and tooling from Volkswagen enabling them to stay in German hands building beetles.

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Also worth mentioning that for several decades after WW2 UK industry was using heavy machinery and equipment they took from Germany as reparations leading to a jump in productivity by Germany as they were forced to retool with more modern equipment whilst the UK sat back and relied on older gear - some of this equipment taken from Germany was still in use 40 years later.

Ironically the UK turned down the machinery and tooling from Volkswagen enabling them to stay in German hands building beetles.

 

 

So we got the German cast offs, and Germany got brand spanking new state-of-the-art kit, paid for mostly by the USA. That's fair, isn't it? ?

[Orac]

 
So we got the German cast offs, and Germany got brand spanking new state-of-the-art kit, paid for mostly by the USA. That's fair, isn't it? [emoji53]

It was up to us what we took - fairness is a schoolyard arguement that is hardly relevant here.

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

It was up to us what we took - fairness is a schoolyard arguement that is hardly relevant here.

 

 

But the USA didn't rebuild our industrial plant, did it? As pointed out by Bill, it was quite the opposite: we were paying the USA back for their help for donkeys years

[SheungWan]

After all these years the Little Englander provincial resentments burn just as bright as they ever did. Same same but different with football. No wonder we want a referendum in London, never mind Scotland.

[Orac]

 
But the USA didn't rebuild our industrial plant, did it? As pointed out by Bill, it was quite the opposite: we were paying the USA back for their help for donkeys years

Erm no - we had already helped ourselves to Germany's so not that much to rebuild. The problems came later when we didn't upgrade old machinery but instead relied on cheap labour from the commonwealth through immigration hence the UKs poor levels of productivity.

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

After all these years the Little Englander provincial resentments burn just as bright as they ever did. Same same but different with football. No wonder we want a referendum in London, never mind Scotland.

 

We're just balancing out the sycophancy shown toward Germany by some posters by providing some hard, cold facts about why Germany is where it is .

 

By the way, the Dollar is near-enough 1.24 to Sterling now. Any ideas why Sterling's still going up?

[pitrevie]

20 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

It was up to us what we took - fairness is a schoolyard arguement that is hardly relevant here.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

It was up to us what we took - fairness is a schoolyard arguement that is hardly relevant here.

 

Just to drag a few facts into this particular argument in the 4 years the Marshall Plan was in operation to assist with the rebuilding of Western Europe the UK received more than twice what Germany received. Then as we all know Germany became the powerhouse of Europe and the UK went into decline. I recall friends telling me that you could get 11 DM/£ and when I was working and living in Germany it had decreased to just over 4 DM/£ and I believe the figure just prior to the Euro was around 2. So Germany thrived on the back of a currency that was getting stronger year by year. (Now we are being led to believe that German success was due to all the aid they received after the war and latterly their cheap Euro) In 1973 the UK took the decision to join the EEC and our economy which was regarded as the sick man of Europe became blah blah blah as Khun Han likes to tell us.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Erm no - we had already helped ourselves to Germany's so not that much to rebuild. The problems came later when we didn't upgrade old machinery but instead relied on cheap labour from the commonwealth through immigration hence the UKs poor levels of productivity.

 

 

You can dress this up any way and as much as you want, but the bald facts are that we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery paid for by the USA. Us getting new machinery paid for by the USA (and Germany getting to keep it's aging machinery) was never an option. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Khun Han

[pitrevie]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

You can dress this up any way and as much as you want, but the bald facts are that we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery paid for by the USA. Us getting new machinery paid for by the USA was never an option. 

Try looking at how much assistance the UK received under the same plan as Germany you might be better informed, but I doubt it will make any difference.

[SheungWan]

15 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

We're just balancing out the sycophancy shown toward Germany by some posters by providing some hard, cold facts about why Germany is where it is .

 

By the way, the Dollar is near-enough 1.24 to Sterling now. Any ideas why Sterling's still going up?

See message 3734 liked by a Khun Han. Memory is a bugger as one gets older!

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

See message 3734 liked by a Khun Han. Memory is a bugger as one gets older!

 

That's still impacting on the rates?

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

That's still impacting on the rates?

That message (page 150) was only yesterday!

Edited March 18, 2017 by SheungWan

[pitrevie]

25 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You can dress this up any way and as much as you want, but the bald facts are that we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery paid for by the USA. Us getting new machinery paid for by the USA (and Germany getting to keep it's aging machinery) was never an option. 

Former US Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank Alan Greenspan gives most credit to Ludwig Erhard for Europe's economic recovery. Greenspan writes in his memoir The Age of Turbulence that Erhard's economic policies were the most important aspect of postwar Western Europe recovery, even outweighing the contributions of the Marshall Plan. He states that it was Erhard's reductions in economic regulations that permitted Germany's miraculous recovery, and that these policies also contributed to the recoveries of many other European countries. Its recovery is attributed to traditional economic stimuli, such as increases in investment, fueled by a high savings rate and low taxes.

However I am sure that somewhere you will find someone who agrees with your economic assessment for the recovery of Europe after the war based on "we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery "

[sandyf]

There appears to be a certain amount of tunnel vision over the EU contributions, reminds me on the buffet meal mentality where people end up with more food on the table than they can eat.

When brexit kicks in exporters on both sides will be faced with customs regulations similar to those that were in place prior to the single market. Many companies will not put up with the bureaucracy, stop exporting and cut their cloth to suit the domestic market.

That will be a lot less painful for those companies with a potential customer base of around 700 million as opposed to 60 million.

[Khun Han]

47 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

That message (page 150) was only yesterday!

 

But didn't what the message referred to happen earlier in the week?

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

For several decades after WW2 the UK was still paying off lease-lend to the USA  even though the allies won the war. West Germany and Japan OTOH had their economies rebuilt by the USA which put them well ahead of the UK. Nor were West Germany or Japan actively involved in any wars, major or minor, or "peace keeping" missions until this century.

 

It is easy to spend less on the defence of your country when someone else is paying the bill and keeping the barbarians from your door.

 

Yes, between us paying back the Americans for war equipment they provided, and the £4.3bn loan we had to take out with them to stop the war effort from bankrupting us, we were at a serious disadvantage to the fledging West Germany. Which was being nursed back from austerity by it's American occupiers.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, between us paying back the Americans for war equipment they provided, and the £4.3bn loan we had to take out with them to stop the war effort from bankrupting us, we were at a serious disadvantage to the fledging West Germany. Which was being nursed back from austerity by it's American occupiers.

Everyone else's fault except our own! We have been badly treated. It's not fair. But, just wait, we'll show you!

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

See message 3734 liked by a Khun Han. Memory is a bugger as one gets older!

 

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

But didn't what the message referred to happen earlier in the week?

That would be early Thursday morning Thai time! Never mind! Happy to help you cross the road.

Edited March 18, 2017 by SheungWan

[pitrevie]

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, between us paying back the Americans for war equipment they provided, and the £4.3bn loan we had to take out with them to stop the war effort from bankrupting us, we were at a serious disadvantage to the fledging West Germany. Which was being nursed back from austerity by it's American occupiers.

"the fledging West Germany. Which was being nursed back from austerity by it's American occupiers." Already debunked but completely ignored by you as you continue with your ridiculous absurd narrative about the recovery of West Germany. Where the hell do you get the notion that West Germany was being nursed back from austerity, it was recovering from the devastation of the 2nd WW, is that what you call austerity? Again please don't compare the UK which had also suffered tremendous war damage but nothing compared to what Germany had suffered and before you go down that track, no I am not trying to absolve them from blame. 

[Khun Han]

22 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

See message 3734 liked by a Khun Han. Memory is a bugger as one gets older!

 

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

But didn't what the message referred to happen earlier in the week?

That would be early Thursday morning Thai time! Never mind! Happy to help you cross the road.

Edited 17 minutes ago by SheungWan

 

Actually, no. The US interest rate hike, which is widely believed to be at the root of this particular currency fluctuation, was announced earlier in the week. And Sterling started it's ascent on Wednesday. Surprised you got this one muddled. Whilst I don't like the anti-brexit spin you usually try to put on Sterling's movement, I count on your general knowledge of currency workings to save me googling. So, no other reason why Sterling is still rising?  Oh well! Probably fall again next week, eh?

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Actually, no. The US interest rate hike, which is widely believed to be at the root of this particular currency fluctuation, was announced earlier in the week. And Sterling started it's ascent on Wednesday. Surprised you got this one muddled. Whilst I don't like the anti-brexit spin you usually try to put on Sterling's movement, I count on your general knowledge of currency workings to save me googling. So, no other reason why Sterling is still rising?  Oh well! Probably fall again next week, eh?

The interest rate hike was Wednesday US Eastern Time, which is early Thursday morning Thailand time. Got that now?

Edited March 18, 2017 by SheungWan

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The interest rate hike was Wednesday US Eastern Time, which is early Thursday morning Thailand time. Got that now?

 

As neither the USA nor the UK are operating in Thailand's time zone, it's safe to say that the event happened on Wednesday. Have you got that now?

 

Or did Thailand have some influence on the event?

Edited March 18, 2017 by Khun Han

[SheungWan]

20 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

As neither the USA nor the UK are operating in Thailand's time zone, it's safe to say that the event happened on Wednesday. Have you got that now?

 

Or did Thailand have some influence on the event?

This is a Thai expat forum and forum contributor's contributions are time-stamped in Thai time and since I am in Thailand that is the time zone of reference for my and other's contributions if the reference point is the contribution. (maybe you are enjoying the nice cold UK weather which may account for your confusion and therefore my sympathies for your predicament). I would suggest that since you clicked Like This  on my contribution (3742) you pop back and unclick it to save the further bother of being in a hole and digging ever so furiously. Over and Out.

[Naam]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

For several decades after WW2 the UK was still paying off lease-lend to the USA  even though the allies won the war. West Germany and Japan OTOH had their economies rebuilt by the USA which put them well ahead of the UK. Nor were West Germany or Japan actively involved in any wars, major or minor, or "peace keeping" missions until this century.

 

It is easy to spend less on the defence of your country when someone else is paying the bill and keeping the barbarians from your door.

that explains in details why May is ready since five months to talk tough but hasn't started yet.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

This is a Thai expat forum and forum contributor's contributions are time-stamped in Thai time and since I am in Thailand that is the time zone of reference for my and other's contributions if the reference point is the contribution. (maybe you are enjoying the nice cold UK weather which may account for your confusion and therefore my sympathies for your predicament). I would suggest that since you clicked Like This  on my contribution (3742) you pop back and unclick it to save the further bother of being in a hole and digging ever so furiously. Over and Out.

 

I'm not in a hole. You are. What we're discussing happened in the West on Wednesday. The fact that you didn't find out about it until you got up on Thursday is irrelevant. I'm not suprised you're bailing, after all your smart ar$e replies fell on said ar$e.

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, Naam said:

that explains in details why May is ready since five months to talk tough but hasn't started yet.

 

Great sense of humour . Are you German by any chance?

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I'm not in a hole. You are. What we're discussing happened in the West on Wednesday. The fact that you didn't find out about it until you got up on Thursday is irrelevant. I'm not suprised you're bailing, after all your smart ar$e replies fell on said ar$e.

Oh dear, dear, dear! It would appear I am having a discussion with someone who has difficulty understanding time zones. And that is sad. eg 3am Thailand time is at the same time about 3pm US Eastern Seaboard time. They are concurrent not sequential. Back to school for you!