May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Throw in a couple of sheep and you can knit your own jumpers as well.

Had those plus goats in America.

 

Benefit of our background (+ wife) is that we can live in almost any environment.

 

I openly admit that our aim is to live in as rural an environment as we can providing as much as possible for ourselves.

 

Until you grow your own produce, you have no idea how bland and tasteless shop bought fruit and veg is. There is no comparison to eating food that was picked minutes ago and having a meal of eggs that were free range and laid the same day. Oh yes, and honey from our own bees.

 

Made a decision in life early always to have enough land to survive on which if the Remainers screw up these talks, may be a necessity for a short while. If we are faced with an ultra hard Brexit due to this negativity on the Remainers part and food prices go through the roof, we will be OK.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

There were plenty of actions that could (should) have been taken to reduce the rate of EU immigration. The government are to blame for not doing so.

 

Economists reckon that <5% is equivalent to full employment. We're there now

 

I wasn't aware that EU medical staff were sub standard?

 

What about staff from the sub-continent (or the incontinent for that matter)

Now you are aware that they are sub standard in their English which affects important decisions on a daily basis.

As for actions on the NHS this has been fault by both Labour (Blair) and conservative governments.

 

My point I was making for example that Australian, New Zealand and Philippine medical staff have far superior English in general than many of the EU countries that the NHS are so heavily relying on. It could also be argued that NHS and doctors surgeries are so overloaded due to the increase in immigration over the last 15 years.

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, AlexRich said:

So you voted Brexit to stop poor European migrants being exploited? Bless!

Where did I say that? More drivel from your posts or are you trying to be funny, obviously failing miserably. Yes I do feel that immigrants are being exploited but it wasn't the reason I voted for sovereignty and out of the bully boys club the EU is and not what the ECM was about. Sadly I feel the UK is well and truly <deleted> with liberals, left wing factions , ironically anti EU 30 plus years ago, all banging the same rhetoric, of we can't survive without the EU. Total tosh.  The culture and identity is slowly being strangled out of the UK. You are tarnished as being right wing and even extremist if you want to be British and not an EU citizen, which again is tosh as the EU is a collective group of European countries.

 

Japan do fine, as do Switzerland, Norway and Iceland without the EU control. The US, Australia and many other countries do fine without the EU.  Are they racists and xenaphobes for not wanting to be in the EU? Of course not but the UK is branded so.

 

As you are concerned for migrants read below just how well they are treated. I am sure nothing will change your stance, as I have often wondered is your IP address is coming directly from the Brussels headquarters.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6593321.stm

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25880354

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/17/exploitation-migrants-way-of-life-immigration-business-model

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It could also be argued that NHS and doctors surgeries are so overloaded due to the increase in immigration over the last 15 years.

Of course this is all down to the EU and nothing to do with resources.

About half of net migration is from outside the EU which is completely under government control. EU nationals are subject to EU regulations on migration which the UK government chose to ignore. It should also be borne in mind that many EU nationals would be covered under reciprocal arrangements so in fact the UK government would be paid to provide care, a bit like UK nationals in the EU.

The bottom line is that the government implemented an immigration policy and failed to provide the NHS the additional resources required to deal with that policy.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

Which EU country has been fortunate enough to have been favored by you?

 

Ill tell you one thing, I was horrified to see the dreadful Abbott back on the front bench. Corbyn stands NO chance now....

 

I am not anti UK but I am embarrassed and indeed horrified by the direction it is being led.

I do not think any of us are anti UK as has been suggested, more a lack of confidence. UK governments are weak at the knees and definitely need support and the best support they have ever had has been from the EU.

[mommysboy]

4-0 to the EU.

 

Brexiteers are being revealed as Blowhards.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course this is all down to the EU and nothing to do with resources.

About half of net migration is from outside the EU which is completely under government control. EU nationals are subject to EU regulations on migration which the UK government chose to ignore. It should also be borne in mind that many EU nationals would be covered under reciprocal arrangements so in fact the UK government would be paid to provide care, a bit like UK nationals in the EU.

The bottom line is that the government implemented an immigration policy and failed to provide the NHS the additional resources required to deal with that policy.

The 'bottom line' is that uk governments support cheap labour from poorer countries, as this increases business profits.

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

 

Japan do fine, as do Switzerland, Norway and Iceland without the EU control. The US, Australia and many other countries do fine without the EU.  Are they racists and xenaphobes for not wanting to be in the EU? Of course not but the UK is branded so.

 

 

Actually Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have all signed agreements that pretty much means that they have to accept EU law, including free movement of labor. In return for which they don't even get to vote on EU laws.

[Basil B]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Japan do fine, as do Switzerland, Norway and Iceland without the EU control. 

 

Unfortunately that was the " Vote Leave" sales talk... and a lie, Iceland (not the food retailer), Norway & Switzerland have to accept a lot EU rules and can not do separate trade agreements with other countries without EU approval.  

 

 

Gove and the Blond Dimwit...

That's another fine mess you got us into...

 

 

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Where did I say that? More drivel from your posts or are you trying to be funny, obviously failing miserably. Yes I do feel that immigrants are being exploited but it wasn't the reason I voted for sovereignty and out of the bully boys club the EU is and not what the ECM was about. Sadly I feel the UK is well and truly <deleted> with liberals, left wing factions , ironically anti EU 30 plus years ago, all banging the same rhetoric, of we can't survive without the EU. Total tosh.  The culture and identity is slowly being strangled out of the UK. You are tarnished as being right wing and even extremist if you want to be British and not an EU citizen, which again is tosh as the EU is a collective group of European countries.

 

Japan do fine, as do Switzerland, Norway and Iceland without the EU control. The US, Australia and many other countries do fine without the EU.  Are they racists and xenaphobes for not wanting to be in the EU? Of course not but the UK is branded so.

 

As you are concerned for migrants read below just how well they are treated. I am sure nothing will change your stance, as I have often wondered is your IP address is coming directly from the Brussels headquarters.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6593321.stm

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25880354

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/17/exploitation-migrants-way-of-life-immigration-business-model

 

Same old claptrap from you. Switzerland and Norway have strong ties with the EU, and Iceland is a member of EFTA, and is recovering from bankruptcy ... but not because of the EU. If Australia was off the coast of Europe it would be in the EU. It does most of it's business with ... guess who? It's neighbours in the Far East ... as a trading partner the isolated UK is almost irrelevant. Trump promised a deal, but now the EU is in line first. Why? Because they'd rather have a deal with 500m than 60m, naturally. Smart countries are working together ... it makes sense commercially and it lowers the chances of wars breaking out ... a good thing in my view.

[ilostmypassword]

40 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Same old claptrap from you. Switzerland and Norway have strong ties with the EU, and Iceland is a member of EFTA, and is recovering from bankruptcy ... but not because of the EU. If Australia was off the coast of Europe it would be in the EU. It does most of it's business with ... guess who? It's neighbours in the Far East ... as a trading partner the isolated UK is almost irrelevant. Trump promised a deal, but now the EU is in line first. Why? Because they'd rather have a deal with 500m than 60m, naturally. Smart countries are working together ... it makes sense commercially and it lowers the chances of wars breaking out ... a good thing in my view.

Norway is also a member of EFTA. As for Switzerland...

"The relations between Switzerland and the European Union (EU) are framed by a series of bilateral treaties whereby the Swiss Confederation has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market. With the exception of Switzerland's eastern neighbour, the microstate Liechtenstein, Switzerland is totally surrounded by EU member states."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland–European_Union_relations

Switzerland is obliged to allow free movement of people.

[mommysboy]

In the interests of fair play and solid argument:

 

If the latest headlines are to be believed, then the EU has a flaming cheek trying to dictate UK immigration policy.  An independent country sets its own immigrant policy. This is about UK leaving, not seeking a trade deal.  If it was about trading terms then the matter might be relevant.

[ilostmypassword]

U.K.'s Euro Clearing Business at Risk as ECB Requests More Powers

The European Central Bank lodged a formal request for greater powers to supervise euro-denominated clearing, stepping up a tug of war between European Union authorities and Britain over the future of the lucrative business line after Brexit.

 

Britain's departure from the EU has rekindled a debate about whether big U.K.-based clearing houses should decamp within the bloc, given the importance of their activities for the stability of eurozone financial markets.

 

The ECB said on Friday it had lodged a request with EU authorities for changes to its statute that would allow it to exercise "a clear legal competence in the area of central clearing."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/06/23/u-k-s-euro-clearing-business-at-risk-as-ecb-requests-more-powers.html

 

[pitrevie]

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

U.K.'s Euro Clearing Business at Risk as ECB Requests More Powers

The European Central Bank lodged a formal request for greater powers to supervise euro-denominated clearing, stepping up a tug of war between European Union authorities and Britain over the future of the lucrative business line after Brexit.

 

Britain's departure from the EU has rekindled a debate about whether big U.K.-based clearing houses should decamp within the bloc, given the importance of their activities for the stability of eurozone financial markets.

 

The ECB said on Friday it had lodged a request with EU authorities for changes to its statute that would allow it to exercise "a clear legal competence in the area of central clearing."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/06/23/u-k-s-euro-clearing-business-at-risk-as-ecb-requests-more-powers.html

 

I don't know why the UK wants to hang onto this after all the Euro is going to implode anyway or so we are told. It was only a few years ago that the ECJ decided in the UK's favour that even though we were not in the Euro we were in the EU and thus entitled to have this located in London. Seems now that argument has gone out of the window. Still there must be loads of countries just waiting to give us replacement business.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, pitrevie said:

I don't know why the UK wants to hang onto this after all the Euro is going to implode anyway or so we are told. It was only a few years ago that the ECJ decided in the UK's favour that even though we were not in the Euro we were in the EU and thus entitled to have this located in London. Seems now that argument has gone out of the window. Still there must be loads of countries just waiting to give us replacement business.

Why would there be loads of countries willing to give the UK replacement business? Why wouldn't the UK have that business already if it made financial sense for them to have it?  Or were you making a joke?

[pitrevie]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Why would there be loads of countries willing to give the UK replacement business? Why wouldn't the UK have that business already if it made financial sense for them to have it?  Or were you making a joke?

Apparently there are loads of countries waiting for us to escape from the EU so that they can begin doing business with us. There's .... and ... well I am sure there are lots.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Apparently there are loads of countries waiting for us to escape from the EU so that they can begin doing business with us. There's .... and ... well I am sure there are lots.

You have any citations for that? What nations are waiting for the UK to escape from the EU? Most countries impose rules on financial trading that favor domestic firms. The UK leaving the EU is not going to change that.

Edited June 23, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Flustered]

8 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Why would there be loads of countries willing to give the UK replacement business? Why wouldn't the UK have that business already if it made financial sense for them to have it?  Or were you making a joke?

Because we cannot deal with them on our own terms. We have to use the EU negotiated terms and conditions and these give priority to EU countries. PR may have been sarcastic but it is true.

 

This is one of the basic reasons for leaving the EU.

 

Mind you, by asking that question you at least own up to not understanding the issues and implications.

[Flustered]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You have any citations for that? What nations are waiting for the UK to escape from the EU? Most countries impose rules on financial trading that favor domestic firms. The UK leaving the EU is not going to change that.

You do not even recognise when your own side is being sarcastic...Brilliant.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

You do not even recognise when your own side is being sarcastic...Brilliant.

Well, I did ask him but you're right, he fooled me. I can only plead that there are posters in this forum who actually believe such things.

Edited June 23, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Same old claptrap from you. Switzerland and Norway have strong ties with the EU, and Iceland is a member of EFTA, and is recovering from bankruptcy ... but not because of the EU. If Australia was off the coast of Europe it would be in the EU. It does most of it's business with ... guess who? It's neighbours in the Far East ... as a trading partner the isolated UK is almost irrelevant. Trump promised a deal, but now the EU is in line first. Why? Because they'd rather have a deal with 500m than 60m, naturally. Smart countries are working together ... it makes sense commercially and it lowers the chances of wars breaking out ... a good thing in my view.

Norway is also a member of EFTA. As for Switzerland...

"The relations between Switzerland and the European Union (EU) are framed by a series of bilateral treaties whereby the Swiss Confederation has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market. With the exception of Switzerland's eastern neighbour, the microstate Liechtenstein, Switzerland is totally surrounded by EU member states."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland–European_Union_relations

Switzerland is obliged to allow free movement of people.

 

Switzerland and Norway, whilst having their strengths, are not in the same league economically or politically as the UK.

 

Australia is a part of the loose federation of ASEAN, and can trade with whoever it wants. Speculation about who it would trade with if it wasn't in Australia is just that.

 

It was a German trade delegation led by Frau Merkel which claimed, amongst other things, that the EU was at the front of the queue wrt trade with the USA. A claim which has turned out to be premature.

 

Fact is several EU countries need the UK far more than the UK needs them, however one wants to play the statistics game. Or maybe Germany can sell it's high end cars and engineering, France can sell it's fine wines, spain, Portugal and Greece can sell their package holidays and Belgium can sell it's beer and chocolates to this mythical bongobongo land that remainers like to use to ridicule the UK? And perhaps the Irish Republic can be sawn off from Northern Ireland and towed off to France or the Netherlands?

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Switzerland and Norway, whilst having their strengths, are not in the same league economically or politically as the UK.

 

Australia is a part of the loose federation of ASEAN, and can trade with whoever it wants. Speculation about who it would trade with if it wasn't in Australia is just that.

 

It was a German trade delegation led by Frau Merkel which claimed, amongst other things, that the EU was at the front of the queue wrt trade with the USA. A claim which has turned out to be premature.

 

Fact is several EU countries need the UK far more than the UK needs them, however one wants to play the statistics game. Or maybe Germany can sell it's high end cars and engineering, France can sell it's fine wines, spain, Portugal and Greece can sell their package holidays and Belgium can sell it's beer and chocolates to this mythical bongobongo land that remainers like to use to ridicule the UK? And perhaps the Irish Republic can be sawn off from Northern Ireland and towed off to France or the Netherlands?

You seem to be suffering from the same over-the-top delusions about Brexit as some of the anti-Brexiteers. Brexit doesn't mean no trade with the EU. Give its proximity that's just absurd.  It will just mean somewhat less trade. So the Germans, French, Portugal, Greece, and Belgium aren't going to lose the entire market. Just a few percentage points. Some more, some less. It will cut the UK's economic growth but not stop it altogether. And it will cut the EU's economic growth, too, just a lot less on a percentage basis.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

U.K.'s Euro Clearing Business at Risk as ECB Requests More Powers

The European Central Bank lodged a formal request for greater powers to supervise euro-denominated clearing, stepping up a tug of war between European Union authorities and Britain over the future of the lucrative business line after Brexit.

 

Britain's departure from the EU has rekindled a debate about whether big U.K.-based clearing houses should decamp within the bloc, given the importance of their activities for the stability of eurozone financial markets.

 

The ECB said on Friday it had lodged a request with EU authorities for changes to its statute that would allow it to exercise "a clear legal competence in the area of central clearing."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/06/23/u-k-s-euro-clearing-business-at-risk-as-ecb-requests-more-powers.html

 

Poor deduction.  The bulk of clearing business will stay in UK.  UK has legal competence.  The only viable competitor to UK is the USA, which is also not in the EU.  Its a cobbled story.

[nauseus]

53 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You seem to be suffering from the same over-the-top delusions about Brexit as some of the anti-Brexiteers. Brexit doesn't mean no trade with the EU. Give its proximity that's just absurd.  It will just mean somewhat less trade. So the Germans, French, Portugal, Greece, and Belgium aren't going to lose the entire market. Just a few percentage points. Some more, some less. It will cut the UK's economic growth but not stop it altogether. And it will cut the EU's economic growth, too, just a lot less on a percentage basis.

What each country loses in term of trade will be up to the EU and its hard or soft attitude (a post referendum term).....

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Poor deduction.  The bulk of clearing business will stay in UK.  UK has legal competence.  The only viable competitor to UK is the USA, which is also not in the EU.  Its a cobbled story.

"UK has legal competence." Really" How does the concept of  "legal competence" usurp EU jurisdiction over its financial regulations?

[goldenbrwn1]

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/bank-of-englands-carney-warns-brussels-off-city-land-grab-a3568856.html

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/bank-of-englands-carney-warns-brussels-off-city-land-grab-a3568856.html

 

 

Yes. Carney warned the EU. But his warning carries no legal authority. He's just saying it's a bad idea.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

Fact is several EU countries need the UK far more than the UK needs them, however one wants to play the statistics game. Or maybe Germany can sell it's high end cars and engineering, France can sell it's fine wines, spain, Portugal and Greece can sell their package holidays and Belgium can sell it's beer and chocolates to this mythical bongobongo land that remainers like to use to ridicule the UK?

if you would use 15 minutes of research what percentages of German cars, French wine, Belgian beers are exported to the UK you would refrain from making ridiculous statements.

[goldenbrwn1]

15 minutes ago, Naam said:

if you would use 15 minutes of research what percentages of German cars, French wine, Belgian beers are exported to the UK you would refrain from making ridiculous statements.

So what are you saying? That the EU doesn't care about any loss of trade with UK? That it's just nothing this brexit to them? That one of the biggest contributers is leaving is really no big deal  and the UK hardly spends bu##er all on stuff from the EU? Really?   

 

Im a remain voter but after a few months of painful acceptance, I am over it.  I Just hope the UK and EU get on with it and cool heads prevail in the end. But I'm just as fed up with  ' the EU is not effected by this 'rhetoric and 'the UK is finished and will pay the consequences' as I am with the UK ' will become great again, and rule Britannia blah blah blah ' 

 

Both the EU and the UK will be affected. By how much is entirely up to them both.

Edited June 23, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

So what are you saying? That the EU doesn't care about any loss of trade with UK? That it's just nothing this brexit to them? That one of the biggest contributers is leaving is really no big deal  and the UK hardly spends bu##er all on stuff from the EU? Really?   

 

Im a remain voter but after a few months of painful acceptance, I am over it.  I Just hope the UK and EU get on with it and cool heads prevail in the end. But I'm just as fed up with  ' the EU is not effected by this 'rhetoric and 'the UK is finished and will pay the consequences' as I am with the UK ' will become great again, and rule Britannia blah blah blah ' 

 

Both the EU and the UK will be affected. By how much is entirely up to them both.

One of the 2 parties will be a lot more affected than the other. All you need to work that out is competency in arithmetic.