May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21724775-legally-complex-hard-enforce-and-probably-bad-britain-fishing-case-study

 

Something fishy for Brexiteers to masticate.

 

27 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The CFP is a wasteful disaster. Never fear, our new Minister of Fisheries the Rt Hon Capt. Pugwash and The Black Pig will protect us!

And the Economist article quoted is precisely typical as to why I realised decades ago that it was very biased.

 

Worth reading on uncontroversial subjects though.

[SheungWan]

59 minutes ago, nontabury said:

We are leaving this so called Union, that's a fact. How do you think the EU negotiators look upon you and other Remoaners. What you are actually doing is helping their negotiators to think that we are divided and therefore weak,and then they will exploit this perceived weakness to their advantage. The decision has been taken, get over it, stand by your fellow countrymen instead of stabbing them in the back.

You should have a word with the Hard Brexiteers in the Tory Government who are threatening to stab Theresa May in the back.

[SheungWan]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

 

And the Economist article quoted is precisely typical as to why I realised decades ago that it was very biased.

 

Worth reading on uncontroversial subjects though.

'Very biased': Upsetting that that they contradict my shallow opinions.

'Worth reading': Don't contradict any of my shallow opinions.

'Decades ago that it was...' (blah): Don't buy it, but will pick up a free copy if one available.

Edited July 10, 2017 by SheungWan

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

And the Economist article quoted is precisely typical as to why I realised decades ago that it was very biased.

 

Worth reading on uncontroversial subjects though.

Biased on what side of your fence precisely. I am a big fan of the esteemed journal!

[dick dasterdly]

30 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I think you need to read Edmund Burke's speech to the electors of Bristol it explains very clearly what representative democracy is all about and why even Thatcher was opposed to referendums.

 

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch13s7.html

 

 

 

Apologies in advance as I didn't read the article once I realised it was based on a speech made in 1774.

 

I could well be wrong, but I suspect constituency voters expect their elected MPs to represent them on major issues.

 

It comes as no suprise that "even" Thatcher was opposed to referendums !

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Biased on what side of your fence precisely. I am a big fan of the esteemed journal!

To be fair, I'm very 'left wing' so am biased directly in opposition to many Economist articles .

Edited July 10, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[SheungWan]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, I'm very left wing so am biased directly in opposition to many Economist articles .

Some guys' idea of what 'left-wing' means whiffs like an old fish stuck thrown in the bin and left for a few days in the warm summer weather.

Edited July 10, 2017 by SheungWan

[pitrevie]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Apologies in advance as I didn't read the article once I realised it was based on a speech made in 1774.

 

I could well be wrong, but I suspect constituency voters expect their elected MPs to represent them on major issues.

 

It comes as no suprise that "even" Thatcher was opposed to referendums !

Well they would be wrong to expect that and again as Thatcher pointed out we would never have abolished hanging if that were the case. 

 

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Some guys' idea of what 'left-wing' means whiffs like an old fish stuck thrown in the bin and left for a few days in the warm summer weather.

 

I'd smoke a bit less of that stuff if I were you.

[Flustered]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

He said : The Spanish economy depends on it?

You have obviously never lived in Spain or seen just how the Costa's depend on British tourism. Add to this the massive fruit and veg farms (look on Google Maps..the poly tunnels run for hundreds of miles along the inner Costas.) from which the bulk is sent to the UK and you will understand.

 

In 2015/6 Spain's exports to United Kingdom amounted to $21.8 billion or 7.6% of its overall exports. These exports are mainly from labour intensive industries to whom the loss of such exports would mean ruin. Nearly all of these items can be bought cheaper from South American or South African sources if we were not in the EU.

 

Now if only you were on the Brexit side, i could help you with your achilles tendon issue having had mine severed completely in a rugby game and then gone through months of physio and re-building the muscles and stretching the tendon.

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Apologies in advance as I didn't read the article once I realised it was based on a speech made in 1774.

 

I could well be wrong, but I suspect constituency voters expect their elected MPs to represent them on major issues.

 

It comes as no suprise that "even" Thatcher was opposed to referendums !

Burke's words are as relevant today as they were in 1774. 

 

This is key to our representative democracy and essential reading for all with a political interest. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

'Very biased': Upsetting that that they contradict my shallow opinions.

'Worth reading': Don't contradict any of my shallow opinions.

'Decades ago that it was...' (blah): Don't buy it, but will pick up a free copy if one available.

I certainly agree that one of us is unable to debate - without resorting to "shallow" insults.....

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

You have obviously never lived in Spain or seen just how the Costa's depend on British tourism. Add to this the massive fruit and veg farms (look on Google Maps..the poly tunnels run for hundreds of miles along the inner Costas.) from which the bulk is sent to the UK and you will understand.

 

In 2015/6 Spain's exports to United Kingdom amounted to $21.8 billion or 7.6% of its overall exports. These exports are mainly from labour intensive industries to whom the loss of such exports would mean ruin. Nearly all of these items can be bought cheaper from South American or South African sources if we were not in the EU.

 

Now if only you were on the Brexit side, i could help you with your achilles tendon issue having had mine severed completely in a rugby game and then gone through months of physio and re-building the muscles and stretching the tendon.

 

"Now if only you were on the Brexit side, i could help you with your achilles tendon issue having had mine severed completely..."

 

It is often contended that one should never seek political gain from a humanitarian crisis.

 

That was a heck of a bad injury-career finisher.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I certainly agree that one of us is unable to debate - without resorting to "shallow" insults.....

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by SheungWan

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

We are leaving this so called Union, that's a fact. How do you think the EU negotiators look upon you and other Remoaners. What you are actually doing is helping their negotiators to think that we are divided and therefore weak,and then they will exploit this perceived weakness to their advantage. The decision has been taken, get over it, stand by your fellow countrymen instead of stabbing them in the back.

A decision to leave the EU was taken, there was no vote to leave the single market. Despite what you may think, one does not mean the other, just ask the EFTA countries.

As for stabbing in the back, it was the English that did that to my fellow countrymen, not me.

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, sandyf said:

A decision to leave the EU was taken, there was no vote to leave the single market. Despite what you may think, one does not mean the other, just ask the EFTA countries.

As for stabbing in the back, it was the English that did that to my fellow countrymen, not me.

EFTA (only) countries are not in the EU but they have to pay a contribution, accept free movement of people and partial ECJ law. 

It's up to the EU if they want to allow the UK a "special relationship" or any access to their single market or customs union.

If you leave the EU you leave the single market. How many times does this have to go through the washer?

[Flustered]

We had a referendum. We voted to leave the EU together with all that this implied.

 

If you accept the remain beliefs (which the majority do not) then we are led to believe that information regarding what happens afterwards was withheld. Whose fault is that? If the remain campaign was lacking in information, remainers only have themselves to blame.

 

Now think of what else could have happened.

 

Had Labour won the election, we would have given just about everything including the 100 billion euros and the kitchen sink to the EU just to be able to trade and also be under EU law. The UK would have been reduced to a vassal state. A fate worse than staying in the EU.

 

So before all of you remain voters continue to criticise TM and run down the UK, just remember that we could have been the first subservient colony of a super state called the EU on it's way to world domination by Brussels under German leadership.

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

 

As for stabbing in the back, it was the English that did that to my fellow countrymen, not me.

Your hatred of the English is more than  apparent. Believe me, most of the English would love to be rid of you.

 

Would you support a referendum for Scottish independence that included the English vote as well?

[Grouse]

58 minutes ago, nauseus said:

EFTA (only) countries are not in the EU but they have to pay a contribution, accept free movement of people and partial ECJ law. 

It's up to the EU if they want to allow the UK a "special relationship" or any access to their single market or customs union.

If you leave the EU you leave the single market. How many times does this have to go through the washer?

You can be in the single market but not the customs union. However the up coming Pan Euro Med customs union may be a solution

 

I suggest the EFTA/EEA solution if we must be seen to leave the EU

 

We can have our own fisheries and agriculture policies. Retain membership of the single market and PEMCM woul probably resolve the customs union issue and give access to an 800M market to boot!

 

What's not to like?

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother leaving but the above would work don't you think?

 

http://www.efta.int/eea/policy-areas/goods/customs-trade-facilitation/customs-matters

 

To clear up some issues - Janet and John do business in Europe .....

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36083664

 

Worth looking at the history of EFTA....

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Grouse

[tomacht8]

39 minutes ago, Flustered said:

We had a referendum. We voted to leave the EU together with all that this implied.

 

If you accept the remain beliefs (which the majority do not) then we are led to believe that information regarding what happens afterwards was withheld. Whose fault is that? If the remain campaign was lacking in information, remainers only have themselves to blame.

 

Now think of what else could have happened.

 

Had Labour won the election, we would have given just about everything including the 100 billion euros and the kitchen sink to the EU just to be able to trade and also be under EU law. The UK would have been reduced to a vassal state. A fate worse than staying in the EU.

 

So before all of you remain voters continue to criticise TM and run down the UK, just remember that we could have been the first subservient colony of a super state called the EU on it's way to world domination by Brussels under German leadership.

Yes, there are the old hatreds from the trenches from the 1920s.
Totally ignoring the fact that the Uk has been involved in EU policy for more than 40 years.
The English have always got their extra sausage.
Own currency, British discount and no Schengen member .
The punk is an invention of the islanders.
So go for it, nobody cares.
The idea of a united Europe does not taste anybody.
So please go, and make not so much noise.
Thank you..

[Flustered]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

So please go, and make not so much noise.
Thank you..

We want nothing more.

 

It is the EU states and Frau Merkel in particular who are making all of the noise.

 

TH UK has never threatened the EU with punishment. The UK has not placed stupid financial demands that cannot be justified on the EU. For 40+ years we have been a net contributor to the EU paying our way for projects that do not help us one bit. Go to Spain and see how the EU money is wasted on motorways and airports that no one uses.

 

Noise? It's all coming from the EU. And of course, no one forced you to read or post on this thread, that was your choice just as leaving the EU is ours.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

We want nothing more.

 

It is the EU states and Frau Merkel in particular who are making all of the noise.

 

TH UK has never threatened the EU with punishment. The UK has not placed stupid financial demands that cannot be justified on the EU. For 40+ years we have been a net contributor to the EU paying our way for projects that do not help us one bit. Go to Spain and see how the EU money is wasted on motorways and airports that no one uses.

 

Noise? It's all coming from the EU. And of course, no one forced you to read or post on this thread, that was your choice just as leaving the EU is ours.

It is all good.
Bye bye with a tear in the eye from good friends.
So good luck.
Hope you can get your better deal.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

We had a referendum. We voted to leave the EU together with all that this implied.

 

If you accept the remain beliefs (which the majority do not) then we are led to believe that information regarding what happens afterwards was withheld. Whose fault is that? If the remain campaign was lacking in information, remainers only have themselves to blame.

 

Now think of what else could have happened.

 

Had Labour won the election, we would have given just about everything including the 100 billion euros and the kitchen sink to the EU just to be able to trade and also be under EU law. The UK would have been reduced to a vassal state. A fate worse than staying in the EU.

 

So before all of you remain voters continue to criticise TM and run down the UK, just remember that we could have been the first subservient colony of a super state called the EU on it's way to world domination by Brussels under German leadership.

You should be more stoic my friend!

 

We are strong hearted and resolute - men of iron (well, some of us Yorkshiremen are)!

 

WE not Germany or France should and could have been leaders! 

 

We should have taken the EU by the horns and made it fly!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Grouse

[goldenbrwn1]

23 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes, there are the old hatreds from the trenches from the 1920s.
Totally ignoring the fact that the Uk has been involved in EU policy for more than 40 years.
The English have always got their extra sausage.
Own currency, British discount and no Schengen member .
The punk is an invention of the islanders.
So go for it, nobody cares.
The idea of a united Europe does not taste anybody.
So please go, and make not so much noise.
Thank you..

Trenches in the 20s??..extra sausage  ? and we are all punks ? . Oh come on. Just like the other unhelpful comments from the continent. I take it tomach that's where your from.  I honestly can't believe the hatred at times.   And grouse I wish we could have taken control and not the Franco/German regime. But I fear we have never been liked and we would never of been allowed a leading role.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Trenches in the 20s??..extra sausage  ? and we are all punks ? . Oh come on. Just like the other unhelpful comments from the continent. I take it tomach that's where your from.  I honestly can't believe the hatred at times.  

 

 

That's a bit harsh. The man is not debating the topic in his native tongue. The sentiments he expresses are clear. We British should be much more welcoming to our neighbour's and not make fun of minor errors. BTW it's "You're from" oder "du bist von"

 

and here are some German sausage idioms for you

 

http://www.anjajonestranslation.co.uk/german-idioms-its-all-about-the-sausage/

 

Which is wurst?

Edited July 10, 2017 by Grouse

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Trenches in the 20s??..extra sausage  ? and we are all punks ? . Oh come on. Just like the other unhelpful comments from the continent. I take it tomach that's where your from.  I honestly can't believe the hatred at times.  

 

 

I am sorry about this.
But this Brexit whining hurts.
Like there are some steal the money from UK people.
Here some EU programms for all europe countrys:
http://www.welcomeurope.com/list-european-funds.html
The money that is paid by the EU members, and how it is used is policy of all states.
The UK government has also approved it.
It is annoying for me to pretend that there is an over-governed power that determines everything.
This is bull shit.

 

[goldenbrwn1]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's a bit harsh. The man is not debating the topic in his native tongue. The sentiments he expresses are clear. We British should be much more welcoming to our neighbour's and not make fun of minor errors. BTW it's "You're from" oder "du bist von"

Harsh? I'm not commenting on his grasp of the English language. History covers all languages..esp one where millions died, to not know those dates has nothing to do with it. I guessed he was from the continent from his name.  Oh and he was being nasty to begin with.....so there. ?

Edited July 10, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[Flustered]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's a bit harsh. The man is not debating the topic in his native tongue. 

I think you find that English is his native tongue.

 

All of his posts on other threads are in grammatically perfect English.

 

Only these few are in broken English as if trying to look like a Johnny Foreigner.

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

I think you find that English is his native tongue.

 

All of his posts on other threads are in grammatically perfect English.

 

Only these few are in broken English as if trying to look like a Johnny Foreigner.

When i see you on the next fullmoon Party, a beer for you is on my tap.

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

 Believe me, most of the English would love to be rid of you.

 

Did you support the referendum and the Yes vote at the time?

 

...or did you whine endlessly about it?

 

And, you must also support a second referendum...and any potential Yes vote?