May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[aright]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-powers-grab-plans-parliamentary-system-fix-a7935276.html%3famp

 

This is dangerous

 

We need Brexiteers on board to stop this

Last Tuesday, on a similar thread to this one you wrote "The whole idea of representative government is that parliament does not need to bow to the numpty view but can take wise decisions"

Today you are saying  we should stop parliament from making those decisions.

A little bit of a dichotomy don't you think.

I know you have been on holiday in France and am prepared to forgive if on the day you were full of Domaine Leroy Musigny Grand cru, Cote de Nuits ( I chose this wine because I was told you are the only person on the forum who could afford it.)

[Orac]

Last Tuesday, on a similar thread to this one you wrote "The whole idea of representative government is that parliament does not need to bow to the numpty view but can take wise decisions"
Today you are saying  we should stop parliament from making those decisions.
A little bit of a dichotomy don't you think.
I know you have been on holiday in France and am prepared to forgive if on the day you were full of Domaine Leroy Musigny Grand cru, Cote de Nuits ( I chose this wine because I was told you are the only person on the forum who could afford it.)

Not sure if you properly read the article posted by Grouse but you do not appear to have understood what is being proposed as this new, suggested legislation is aimed at neutering parliament and effectively transfer the power of committees to government by removing the need for those parliamentary committees to reflect the number of seats held by parties in the HoC. Maybe this article better explains what is being proposed:

http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-push-to-ease-brexit-law-through-house-of-commons/




Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[aright]

Orac......I am not criticising or disagreeing with the article I am questioning (in a nice sort of way) my perceived inconsistency in Grouse's political position.  I am sure, in good time, he will dish out retribution on a Spanish Inquisition scale. After my kippers, toast and Yorkshire tea I will give the article the attention it obviously deserves

[aright]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/09/07/withdrawl-bill-necessity-uk/

[Grouse]

To clarify, my stance is that representative parliamentary democracy is a good system. MPs may vote for whatever they believe is in the best interests of all. I acknowledge that this is undermined somewhat by the whip system.

 

I not wish to see Parliament undermined or weakened. I don't trust these Cons. I don't accept Henry VIII type actions and fear this dangerous precedent.

 

You find me on the TGV, Marseille to London. 372 Euro, no meal, buy your own beer, no champagne! French peasants!

[aright]

I was in Marseille on French election day. Did you have a drink at the Shamrock on the Old Port. Great place. They have pub grub but I wouldn't recommend the soup.

 

 

French Waiter

"Waiter, would you please get your thumb out of my soup?"

"So sorry sir, but I have a boil and the doctor told me to keep it warm."

"Well why don't you just stick it up your ass?"

"I do sir, but I've got to serve customers occasionally..."

 

[sandyf]

On 9/8/2017 at 10:27 AM, Grouse said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-powers-grab-plans-parliamentary-system-fix-a7935276.html%3famp

 

This is dangerous

 

We need Brexiteers on board to stop this

Quite, but those with their head in the sand can neither see or hear.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Quite, but those with their head in the sand can neither see or hear.

Brexit more important than democracy...

[baboon]

On 08/09/2017 at 10:27 AM, Grouse said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-powers-grab-plans-parliamentary-system-fix-a7935276.html%3famp

 

This is dangerous

 

We need Brexiteers on board to stop this

Dangerous? It is out and out terrifying. 

[melvinmelvin]

On 8.9.2017 at 5:27 AM, Grouse said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-powers-grab-plans-parliamentary-system-fix-a7935276.html%3famp

 

This is dangerous

 

We need Brexiteers on board to stop this

 

The Supreme Court that early this year "overruled" the PM and concluded that the national assembly

must be consulted and consent before any Article 50 triggering,

did the court not also say something about the national assembly and the outcome of the negotiations?

At least that is what I seem to remember.

 

If so, then this should not affect the Brexit too much, as the assmbly will have the final say.

 

The worrying bit is that in modern times the foggy islands have an elected government that plays tricks to circumvent normal parliamentary

customs and ways of working.

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by melvinmelvin

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

did the court not also say something about the national assembly and the outcome of the negotiations?

Another case is working its way through the UK courts on whether, under article 127 of the European Economic Area agreement, leaving the EU necessarily means also leaving the single market.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/24/article-50-judgment-key-points-supreme-court-ruling

 

[SheungWan]

Leading Tory donor says Theresa May is a hopeless leader of a weak government. Well fancy that!

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Another case is working its way through the UK courts on whether, under article 127 of the European Economic Area agreement, leaving the EU necessarily means also leaving the single market.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/24/article-50-judgment-key-points-supreme-court-ruling

 

yes, am aware of that, but what weight would a UK court ruling carry in the ongoing negotiations, not too much I am afraid

 

have lately seen a number of legal "positions" from reputable UK legal companies re this article,

my understanding is that they tend to say that the article does not take presedence

 

[aright]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Leading Tory donor says Theresa May is a hopeless leader of a weak government. Well fancy that!

Yes, I can't wait to have a strong, fiscally responsible government led by Jeremy Corbyn,  John Mcdonnell  and Diane Abbott. 

Be careful what you wish for.

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Leading Tory donor says Theresa May is a hopeless leader of a weak government. Well fancy that!

 

2 minutes ago, aright said:

Yes, I can't wait to have a strong, fiscally responsible government led by Jeremy Corbyn,  John Mcdonnell  and Diane Abbott. 

Be careful what you wish for.

The threat of a Corbyn government does not make Theresa May any less hopeless. In fact it is the current government's hopelessness that might let in a Labour admisinstration. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

The worrying bit is that in modern times the foggy islands have an elected government that plays tricks to circumvent normal parliamentary customs and ways of working.

 

Are you trying to imply that this government could be responsible for any "ill thought out legislation".

 

"The government plans to enact its "corrections" to the statute book using what are known as Henry VIII powers, after the Statute of Proclamations 1539 which gave him the power to legislate by proclamation.

Given that this will not involve the usual Parliamentary scrutiny process, opposition parties have protested, with Labour claiming ministers were being handed "sweeping powers" to make hasty, ill thought-out legislation."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39266723

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Brexit more important than democracy...

Democracy?  When the result of one of the v rare referendums was to leave and its now being turned on it's head that it's 'undemocratic' to do so?

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Democracy?  When the result of one of the v rare referendums was to leave and its now being turned on it's head that it's 'undemocratic' to do so?

Oh No! its the 'Very Rare' Trump Card!

Edited September 9, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

David Davis heading for tragic failure: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/david-davis-is-heading-for-a-tragic-failure-of-his-own-making/

 

[aright]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

The threat of a Corbyn government does not make Theresa May any less hopeless. In fact it is the current government's hopelessness that might let in a Labour admisinstration. 

What? She's hopeless because you and a Tory donor think she is? 

At the last election, she got 42.3% of the popular vote, up from 36.8% in 2015. In a year when protest votes were popular and in an election, which by her own admission, she handled badly (I love honesty), I wouldn't call that hopeless.

 

Regarding the two pecksniffians  Barnier and Junckers .  The more they insult our country and its ambitions the more I feel David Davis is doing an excellent job.

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

What? She's hopeless because you and a Tory donor think she is? 

At the last election, she got 42.3% of the popular vote, up from 36.8% in 2015. In a year when protest votes were popular and in an election, which by her own admission, she handled badly (I love honesty), I wouldn't call that hopeless.

 

Regarding the two pecksniffians  Barnier and Junckers .  The more they insult our country and its ambitions the more I feel David Davis is doing an excellent job.

Sure. Lord Harris doesn't know what he is talking about: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/08/tory-donor-brands-theresa-may-weak-hopeless/

 

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Sure. Lord Harris doesn't know what he is talking about: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/08/tory-donor-brands-theresa-may-weak-hopeless/

 

No he doesn't! I have just discovered he is an Arsenal Director! This is absolutely terrible!

[aright]

I don't wish to sound arrogant but on a one to one basis his opinion is no more important than mine or yours.

It is now time for the cricket.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Sure. Lord Harris doesn't know what he is talking about: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/08/tory-donor-brands-theresa-may-weak-hopeless/

 

 

An opinion based almost entirely on her criticism of capitalist avarice. Theresa May 1 Lord Harris 0.

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

An opinion based almost entirely on her criticism of capitalist avarice. Theresa May 1 Lord Harris 0.

I stopped reading at:-

 

"I wouldn't want Jeremy Corbyn but if you had Tony Blair when he first got in now he would be very good for this country."

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I stopped reading at:-

 

"I wouldn't want Jeremy Corbyn but if you had Tony Blair when he first got in now he would be very good for this country."

 

Yes.

[aright]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I stopped reading at:-

 

"I wouldn't want Jeremy Corbyn but if you had Tony Blair when he first got in now he would be very good for this country."

 

Mr Blair is not available he is too busy ingratiating himself with Jean-Claude Juncker. Apparently they kissed recently when they greeted each other in Brussels. This meeting was described as emblematic of the elitist politics British voters rejected in 2016.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

David Davis heading for tragic failure: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/david-davis-is-heading-for-a-tragic-failure-of-his-own-making/

 

That Cohen has someone destined for tragic failure in just about every piece of garbage he spews out. I expect that he,  ultimately, will fill that slot himself. Just another troll mothered by The Guardian. Reminds me of you in many ways. 

[melvinmelvin]

16 hours ago, sandyf said:

Are you trying to imply that this government could be responsible for any "ill thought out legislation".

 

"The government plans to enact its "corrections" to the statute book using what are known as Henry VIII powers, after the Statute of Proclamations 1539 which gave him the power to legislate by proclamation.

Given that this will not involve the usual Parliamentary scrutiny process, opposition parties have protested, with Labour claiming ministers were being handed "sweeping powers" to make hasty, ill thought-out legislation."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39266723

 

no, not so far

 

[pitrevie]

16 hours ago, sandyf said:

Are you trying to imply that this government could be responsible for any "ill thought out legislation".

 

"The government plans to enact its "corrections" to the statute book using what are known as Henry VIII powers, after the Statute of Proclamations 1539 which gave him the power to legislate by proclamation.

Given that this will not involve the usual Parliamentary scrutiny process, opposition parties have protested, with Labour claiming ministers were being handed "sweeping powers" to make hasty, ill thought-out legislation."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39266723

A Tory former attorney general has called the Government’s repeal bill “an astonishing monstrosity” and warned he will vote against it unless it is substantially improved. That is just one comment among many in similar vein.