May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

Apologies, but I've lost track (more important, personal things on my mind).

 

Is May talking about a 2 year transitional period from '19 to '21?

[rockingrobin]

28 minutes ago, nontabury said:

It reminds me of previous referendums in the Irish Republic,France and Holland.

And we fool ourselves into thinking we live in a democracy.

I was under the impression leavers was content to let the politicians determine the final journey   providing the UK left the EU, which will occur in ,2019

[aright]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.ft.com/content/931719d6-9fdc-11e7-9a86-4d5a475ba4c5

 

Imagination Technologies sold to Chinese.

 

Note Trump blocked a similar deal in the USA

 

Coming after the sale of ARM holdings, this pretty much kills our semiconductor industry.

 

So another one bites the dust despite May's assurances of building tech.

Yes our semiconductor industry is almost non existent.

https://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=Semiconductors

 

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Apologies, but I've lost track (more important, personal things on my mind).

 

Is May talking about a 2 year transitional period from '19 to '21?

The UK to leave ,2019  Two year transition from ,2019 the existing arrangements remain     ,which might be shorter or longer depending upon individual sectors

Edited September 24, 2017 by rockingrobin

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The UK to leave ,2019  Two year transition from ,2019 the existing arrangements remain     ,which might be shorter or longer depending upon individual sectors

So May is saying that she wants little to change for the next 4 years.....

 

You don't have to be cynical to become a cynic in these circumstances!

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

in Italy earlier this week, May suggested a 2 year transitional period

how will that suggestion be taken forward, if at all

 

at a high level EU meeting or is it thrown to the negotiating teams so they can put meat on it?

 

 

government lawyers and wrong;

Yes, I do remember very well the dispute over the necessity to involve the parliament in A50 or not

The PM and her lawyer gang failing in the courts with big bangs, not once but twice

 

she disappointed me quite a lot at those times

I have since wondered many times if she did that on purpose or if she really has such flimsy

grip on what goes and what doesn't within the UK legal system

 

This is how Mr Barnier put it.

"Mr Barnier noted that for the first time the UK had requested to stay in the single market and adhere to its rules - including on free movement and accepting the rule of EU law - during a two year transition period. He said the EU would be able to consider "this new request". "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-michel-barnier-theresa-may-florence-speech-constructive-spirit-uk-leave-eu-a7961861.html

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

if something along those lines should substantiate,

wouldn't that remove most of the basis for a transitional period?

 

anyway,

I thought the UK government had expressed rather clearly that they do not favour the EFTA/EEA/EU model.

 

Yes, EFTA membership would mean freedom of labour, but so does the transitional period. Hence the reason I voiced temporary EFTA membership.

At this point in time there is no mechanism to remain in the single market(EEA) without being in the EU or EFTA. At the moment you can be EU/EEA or EFTA/EEA or EFTA on its own, but you cannot join EU on its own or join EEA on its own.

The fact that the UK is a existing member of the EEA does offer the possibility of retaining that membership for a transitional period.

It is my understanding that on the 30th March 2019 the UK will no longer be an EU member state and consequently be excluded from participating in any EU trade agreement. Becoming an EFTA member should at least open the door to the existing EFTA FTA's and as far as I can make out there is not the same restriction on EFTA members negotiating FTA's as there is with EU members.

 

The transitional period is only a proposal, there are some people in the government that do not want it. As far as they are concerned freedom of labour is a non starter and why TM always refers to a 'bespoke ' arrangement, any mention of Norway or Switzerland would be like a red flag to the hard brexiteers.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, aright said:

Yes our semiconductor industry is almost non existent.

https://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=Semiconductors

 

I can feel the warmth of your empathy from here

 

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/finance/50-years-of-the-uk-semiconductor-industry-2010-09/

 

The issue is we are just a bit

player (as it were). We should dominate this industry, I know!

 

Two leaders sold off recently

 

We let others really dominate this area because government didn't get it.

 

I'll find our market share but we won't be in the top 10. Quite a few Oxbridge startups which is good. I bet they all voted Brexit ?

 

There's more...

http://trade.gov/topmarkets/pdf/semiconductors_top_markets_report.pdf

 

Netherlands, Germany, France, Ireland all players. Germany has 40 fabs. STMicro the biggest European semiconductor manufacturer is French.

 

We get a mention; as an importer...

 

Missed the bus you see....

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

Watched Andrew Marr and The Sunday Politics

 

Difficult to know whether to laugh or cry at the main parties!

 

Labour is dreadfully split between the metrointellectuals and the "lumpen proletariat" who are on different sides of the Brexit razor. They want to keep their seats and they want power. To hell with what's good for the country!

 

The Cons are so confused they're stabbing each other in the front! I'm sure May wants out while hanging onto any shred of respectability. The rest are just slavering venal oafs. They just want to keep their seats and hang on to power. To hell with what's good for the country!

 

Now's your chance Vince!

[Khun Han]

Anyway, this thread has probably reached it's conclusion. I expect that the negotiations will be nothing more than a pantomime from here on in.

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Anyway, this thread has probably reached it's conclusion. I expect that the negotiations will be nothing more than a pantomime from here on in.

Oh no it won't!

[aright]

I don't understand why selling a business to the Chinese  is upsetting. If you want to live in a Capitalist country you have to accept all things are for sale, objects and ideas, that's why its called capitalism. I am sure the owner(s) or share holders are happy for the sale and are proud they created something of value. Why do you want to Nanny business and have you or gov have a say in what should or should not be sold. I'm sure if you vote for Mr Corbyn he will follow just this line and make sure nothings for sale by nationalising everything. I'm sure you remember from the past how successful public ownership was. One day over a pint I will tell you about businesses I have started up and what would have been my reaction to interference with their sale. I do of course accept some businesses cannot be sold as a result of security issues.

As far as the future is concerned. These figures are inspiring and I read somewhere (sorry cant find a reference) that about 60% of them fail in the first 2 years. That means year on year we open more business than we close and yes not every one will be high tec but some will.

http://startupbritain.org/startup-tracker/

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, aright said:

I don't understand why selling a business to the Chinese  is upsetting. If you want to live in a Capitalist country you have to accept all things are for sale, objects and ideas, that's why its called capitalism. I am sure the owner(s) or share holders are happy for the sale and are proud they created something of value. Why do you want to Nanny business and have you or gov have a say in what should or should not be sold. I'm sure if you vote for Mr Corbyn he will follow just this line and make sure nothings for sale by nationalising everything. I'm sure you remember from the past how successful public ownership was. One day over a pint I will tell you about businesses I have started up and what would have been my reaction to interference with their sale. I do of course accept some businesses cannot be sold as a result of security issues.

As far as the future is concerned. These figures are inspiring and I read somewhere (sorry cant find a reference) that about 60% of them fail in the first 2 years. That means year on year we open more business than we close and yes not every one will be high tec but some will.

http://startupbritain.org/startup-tracker/

 

 

 

 

 

In general you are quite correct. However, I suspect that the Chinese will want economies of scale and lower pay rates. The UK involvement will be cut down to just the pointy heads on. Cambridge science park. I have no problem with Tata for example ?

 

I forgot to add that this company was so sold so sold when its value collapsed by 75% after losing the Apple contract.....

Edited September 24, 2017 by Grouse

[Basil B]

51 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Now's your chance Vince!

Being a paid up party member for over 40 years (liberal Party/SDP/Lib Dem) I am afraid to say I feel the Lib Dem's have lost their way on this, they need to be saying I was a bad thing to have voted out, but we have voted out, let's make the best of it, address the issue of free movement, and bureaucracy the reasons that swung the vote.

 

A Norwegian type deal on a Customs Union continued trading relationship seems the best deal we can hope for, but it would tie our hands regarding deals with other countries, but there again better getting our tomatoes from Holland than America apart from the fact they would be a lot more expensive to transport from the states they would not be as fresh and the transporting would be very damaging to the environment.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Being a paid up party member for over 40 years (liberal Party/SDP/Lib Dem) I am afraid to say I feel the Lib Dem's have lost their way on this, they need to be saying I was a bad thing to have voted out, but we have voted out, let's make the best of it, address the issue of free movement, and bureaucracy the reasons that swung the vote.

 

A Norwegian type deal on a Customs Union continued trading relationship seems the best deal we can hope for, but it would tie our hands regarding deals with other countries, but there again better getting our tomatoes from Holland than America apart from the fact they would be a lot more expensive to transport from the states they would not be as fresh and the transporting would be very damaging to the environment.

What appeals to you about the Norwegian deal over existing arrangements?

 

Frankly, the interim arrangements will

be much like the Norwegian situation: same same but no say!

 

Cluster ++++ if you ask me.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Grouse

[melvinmelvin]

EFTA members in EEA have the option to say NO to implementation of a directive,

that might appeal to some

 

[Grouse]

The Express suggests the way forward

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/858235/Brexit-Macron-and-Merkel-plot-UK-Brussels-forever

 

The devil is in the detail 666

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

The Express suggests the way forward

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/858235/Brexit-Macron-and-Merkel-plot-UK-Brussels-forever

 

The devil is in the detail 666

I expect the EU will put so many conditions on this transitional idea that it never happens and May actually has to go. 

 

We're on page 666 but the devil is the EU itself. Let's get the flock out now!

[Basil B]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

What appeals to you about the Norwegian deal over existing arrangements?

 

Frankly, the interim arrangements will

be much like the Norwegian situation: same same but no say!

 

Cluster ++++ if you ask me.

It does not appeal... no way does it...

 

But it makes sense that our main trading partners are our neighbours, that's what made the Brexit vote a "No Brainer" 

Or more to the point those who voted out are "No Brainers"

Edited September 25, 2017 by Basil B

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Anyway, this thread has probably reached it's conclusion. I expect that the negotiations will be nothing more than a pantomime from here on in.

May tepidly supported remain before the referendum, but decided to 'fully support' leave after the tory party endorsed her as the new party leader.....

 

Suprise, suprise - she's now changing her tune/kicking the can down the road and supporting nothing changing for the next 4 years .  Not good for anyone in the UK, as it only prolongs the period of instability.

 

There's no doubt that the vast majority of politicians/ the 'establishment' and the vast majority of the truly wealthy do not want to leave the EU - but politicians have recently realised that its a good idea to keep one eye on the disenfranchised portion of the electorate, who are extremely unhappy.  Hence the latest delay tactics.

 

Will the unhappy portion of the electorate become even more bad-tempered as leave turns into delaying tactics/a more expensive version of remain - with their grievances unaddressed?

 

We don't know and only time will tell - but its now obvious that May is playing the waiting game.

[SheungWan]

20 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Anyway, this thread has probably reached it's conclusion. I expect that the negotiations will be nothing more than a pantomime from here on in.

So upsetting.

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

May tepidly supported remain before the referendum, but decided to 'fully support' leave after the tory party endorsed her as the new party leader.....

 

Suprise, suprise - she's now changing her tune/kicking the can down the road and supporting nothing changing for the next 4 years .  Not good for anyone in the UK, as it only prolongs the period of instability.

 

There's no doubt that the vast majority of politicians/ the 'establishment' and the vast majority of the truly wealthy do not want to leave the EU - but politicians have recently realised that its a good idea to keep one eye on the disenfranchised portion of the electorate, who are extremely unhappy.  Hence the latest delay tactics.

 

Will the unhappy portion of the electorate become even more bad-tempered as leave turns into delaying tactics/a more expensive version of remain - with their grievances unaddressed?

 

We don't know and only time will tell - but its now obvious that May is playing the waiting game.

Hello! Its Mr Fence Sitter

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

I expect the EU will put so many conditions on this transitional idea that it never happens and May actually has to go. 

 

We're on page 666 but the devil is the EU itself. Let's get the flock out now!

'I expect....'..... whatever pops up over the Monday morning breakfast table.

Edited September 25, 2017 by SheungWan

[dick dasterdly]

49 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

May tepidly supported remain before the referendum, but decided to 'fully support' leave after the tory party endorsed her as the new party leader.....

 

Suprise, suprise - she's now changing her tune/kicking the can down the road and supporting nothing changing for the next 4 years .  Not good for anyone in the UK, as it only prolongs the period of instability.

 

There's no doubt that the vast majority of politicians/ the 'establishment' and the vast majority of the truly wealthy do not want to leave the EU - but politicians have recently realised that its a good idea to keep one eye on the disenfranchised portion of the electorate, who are extremely unhappy.  Hence the latest delay tactics.

 

Will the unhappy portion of the electorate become even more bad-tempered as leave turns into delaying tactics/a more expensive version of remain - with their grievances unaddressed?

 

We don't know and only time will tell - but its now obvious that May is playing the waiting game.

 

32 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Hello! Its Mr Fence Sitter

I'm just tired of the pretense that our politicians are looking to support the referendum result.

 

I was prepared to give May the benefit of the obvious doubt at the beginning, but my original thoughts that it would turn into a more expensive version of never leaving are materialising....

[nauseus]

41 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

'I expect....'..... whatever pops up over the Monday morning breakfast table.

This expectation is based on the obstructive, arrogant and bullying attitude of the EU, historically, especially since the referendum and obviously shared by you. 

[dick dasterdly]

40 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Hello! Its Mr Fence Sitter

You've obviously missed it, but I like some things about the EU, and am not a 'little englander'.

 

But I HATE the waste/unnecessary expenditure/bloated salaries/empire building etc. etc. - plus the 'open doors' policy, that has only served to keep salaries low for the poor.  And this has moved 'up the chain' to keep salaries low for ordinary people.

 

I keep repeating this - but the EU had the ideal opportunity to reform after the brexit vote, but preferred to do the opposite .

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

This expectation is based on the obstructive, arrogant and bullying attitude of the EU, historically, especially since the referendum and obviously shared by you. 

Obviously.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm just tired of the pretense that our politicians are looking to support the referendum result.

 

I was prepared to give May the benefit of the obvious doubt at the beginning, but my original thoughts that it would turn into a more expensive version of never leaving are materialising....

"I'm just tired...." A little Brexit snooze will restore that benefit of the doubt and dream away those nasty little thoughts.

Edited September 25, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

May tepidly supported remain before the referendum, but decided to 'fully support' leave after the tory party endorsed her as the new party leader.....

 

Suprise, suprise - she's now changing her tune/kicking the can down the road and supporting nothing changing for the next 4 years .  Not good for anyone in the UK, as it only prolongs the period of instability.

 

There's no doubt that the vast majority of politicians/ the 'establishment' and the vast majority of the truly wealthy do not want to leave the EU - but politicians have recently realised that its a good idea to keep one eye on the disenfranchised portion of the electorate, who are extremely unhappy.  Hence the latest delay tactics.

 

Will the unhappy portion of the electorate become even more bad-tempered as leave turns into delaying tactics/a more expensive version of remain - with their grievances unaddressed?

 

We don't know and only time will tell - but its now obvious that May is playing the waiting game.

I hope that time will tell because I just bought a new watch today.

[nong38]

These negotiations seem to me be just another exercise in waffle, we are to leave the EU in March 2019, but, there may be a transitional period of 2 years and after that maybe a bit longer still. On the face of it the PM's speech sounded very reasonable but then the French chap seemed to think that this offer was really the baseline for the talks and the only way is up!

I really cannot see us getting a deal with the EU, if it were businessmen talking then an agreement would emerge, but they are politicians, they deal in waffle and dont produce anything apart from extending the life of their jobs and aspirations and whatever happens they will still be in a job, I would be very happy for the UK to just walk away and deal with things that come up over Europe as they come up and that would also mean no money for the EU coffers.

 

The time frame also worries me, the USA is ready to strike a trade deal now and I think we should, we cannot wait for the EU to stop farting around! We should start doing our deals right now it might wake the EU up from its dream of the world.

 

The UK voted to leave, Remainers remember you had the chance to convince the public to stay but you did not, you preached a project of fear when you should have preached a better world in the EU and you lost, no one to blame but youselves that the public did not understand what they were voting for, they perfectly understood that question, so just accept it and get behind the country. a country heading for a new , brave and bright tomorrow, although "tomorrow" is a figarative word, it will be  a few years down the line but lets lets just get on with it and leave.

Just for the record I have nothing against the people of Europe its the EU beaurocrats who have steered them and continue to steer them in another direction, I am happy with the European people but I dont want to be a European, a country without borders and a people without any national identity.