May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I have encouraged friends 'oop North to consider Cathay as an alternative route to BKK now that the MAN link has been opened. HRW for me. Fortunately no need ever to travel to the Provinces these days and converse with the miserable Brexiteer crowd.

Good airline but like the brexiteers there is something not quite right about flying in the wrong direction.

[Jip99]

43 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly free to believe that the Irish War of Independence and the brexit negotiation problems are not related.

No split - no problem.

 

 

Totally unrelated.

 

Border issues are part of Brexit and will be dealt with. Waterloo plays no part in it either.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, taipeir said:

Fact is that the story is LOT more complicated than that as a two minute check on Wikipedia would tell anybody


Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

Khun Han is correct, Polish airmen were stationed all over the east of the country. While Polish soldiers were mostly based in England, ready for the invasion. Many of them stayed in England after the war, and gained employment in the South Yorkshire coal mines. Sandy should be aware of this, as he used to live in Attercliffe,I believe.

 

[AlexRich]

Majority back a second referendum on the Brexit Deal ... source: Mail on Sunday.

 

... people seem to think that the UK were comprehensively beaten in the first round of negotiations. How could that be possible when many in here state “they need us more than we need them”? 

 

The wheels are falling off the Brexit bus. Add to that the fact that Corbyn has taken a substantial lead in the polls ... the referendum has been a great success, not!

 

[FreddieRoyle]

23 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Majority back a second referendum on the Brexit Deal ... source: Mail on Sunday.

 

... people seem to think that the UK were comprehensively beaten in the first round of negotiations. How could that be possible when many in here state “they need us more than we need them”? 

 

The wheels are falling off the Brexit bus. Add to that the fact that Corbyn has taken a substantial lead in the polls ... the referendum has been a great success, not!

 

quote "Majority back a second referendum on the Brexit Deal"

 

and if the luvvies don't get their "correct"result, should there then be a 3rd referendum? and a 4th? and a 5th? Some people have a really hard time understanding the purpose of referendums and votes. 

 

 Corbyn perversely offers the best chance for the survival of Britain and Britishness. After a few years of his marxist guff and the destruction of all that is held in esteem there will be a sudden swing to the patriot parties much like is happening in most of Europe after years of leftist politics which were devastating (as was predicted by all savvy observers).

[nauseus]

44 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Majority back a second referendum on the Brexit Deal ... source: Mail on Sunday.

 

... people seem to think that the UK were comprehensively beaten in the first round of negotiations. How could that be possible when many in here state “they need us more than we need them”? 

 

The wheels are falling off the Brexit bus. Add to that the fact that Corbyn has taken a substantial lead in the polls ... the referendum has been a great success, not!

 

The referendum was a success..........the exit process is a circus.. but that's because the EU are involved now. 

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

quote "Majority back a second referendum on the Brexit Deal"

 

and if the luvvies don't get their "correct"result, should there then be a 3rd referendum? and a 4th? and a 5th? Some people have a really hard time understanding the purpose of referendums and votes. 

 

 Corbyn perversely offers the best chance for the survival of Britain and Britishness. After a few years of his marxist guff and the destruction of all that is held in esteem there will be a sudden swing to the patriot parties much like is happening in most of Europe after years of leftist politics which were devastating (as was predicted by all savvy observers).

 

The whole point of Brexit for hard line Brexiteers was to have a more economically right wing UK ... lower taxes, reduced regulation, more relaxed employment laws ... a dynamic right wing utopia. Instead, it looks like we’re going back to the 1970’s with a veangance ... state ownership, high taxation, strong labour unions, even higher national debt, with the inevitable bankruptcy that follows. And you think that the price is worth paying? ... it will takes decades to recover from that destruction, the government that has to fix the mess will not be popular, so we might end up going back and forth from left to right. Unintended consequences indeed. A second referendum would seal the deal once and for all. The reason Brexiteers are so against the idea is that they know you can only fool people once.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The referendum was a success..........the exit process is a circus.. but that's because the EU are involved now. 

The EU are not behaving like a body that “needs us more than we need them”. So why doesn’t May say we are paying nothing? Because the impact research suggests that would be the ultimate bad deal ... the promises of the Brexiteers are unravelling before our eyes ... and the so-called “will of the people” (which we all must respect) appears to be bending. It’s fun to watch.

[aright]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The EU are not behaving like a body that “needs us more than we need them”. So why doesn’t May say we are paying nothing? Because the impact research suggests that would be the ultimate bad deal ... the promises of the Brexiteers are unravelling before our eyes ... and the so-called “will of the people” (which we all must respect) appears to be bending. It’s fun to watch.

It's not if you are British. Of course you can have a British passport and still find it fun to watch and hope for a complete failure to justify your vote but then you are not really British are you? 

 

[simoh1490]

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The referendum was a success..........the exit process is a circus.. but that's because the EU are involved now. 

The decision to leave was a success, but everything from that point on was extremely difficult, that's because the other partner in the relationship was involved.....is that what you really said! The decision to go to war was a success, but then the enemy got involved, okaydokay!

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

It's not if you are British. Of course you can have a British passport and still find it fun to watch and hope for a complete failure to justify your vote but then you are not really British are you? 

 

What does “not really British” mean? Last time I looked that’s what it said on my passport? Do you mean that if you’re not behind Brexit then you are “not really British? In which case the British population has more than halved overnight, and growing. 

[aright]

21 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

What does “not really British” mean? Last time I looked that’s what it said on my passport? Do you mean that if you’re not behind Brexit then you are “not really British? In which case the British population has more than halved overnight, and growing. 

At the National Election, not so long ago, something like 90% of the electorate voted for parties which supported Brexit The decision was made last year, you have to live with it, but not necessarily agree with it. Yes you are obviously British in name if you have a British passport.  No what it means is if you enjoy watching and hoping for the failure of your country on the basis of a "I told you so" attitude its un British .  Many Remainers had their say at the referendum, still feel to stay is best, but have accepted the result and then hoped their country would leave with the best possible deal that could be negotiated for them. It's a pragmatic decision because the  vast majority will continue to live in the UK.  They are dismayed at what is going on, you are enjoying it. Ultimate failure would complete your enjoyment I assume. I mentioned it on another post.....there are people who when their football team goes 2nil down start cheering for the other team.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

The decision to leave was a success, but everything from that point on was extremely difficult, that's because the other partner in the relationship was involved.....is that what you really said! The decision to go to war was a success, but then the enemy got involved, okaydokay!

 

 

I don’t think we intended them to be our enemy. 

 

 

The main factor for the Billy Smart’s effect is the fact that 2 sides agreed the mechanics, of making a divorce decision, without having anything in place to implement/quantify that divorce.

 

For that I blame the EU and Cameron. The EU for having Article 50 in their locker without the manual explaining exactly what would happen if a member were to leave. Cameron (who would actually be the best PM to lead Brexit) I blame for either the arrogance in believing he could not lose the referendum, or the stupidity in not having an exit blueprint in place.. 

[tomacht8]

14 minutes ago, aright said:

At the National Election, not so long ago, something like 90% of the electorate voted for parties which supported Brexit The decision was made last year, you have to live with it, but not necessarily agree with it. Yes you are obviously British in name if you have a British passport.  No what it means is if you enjoy watching and hoping for the failure of your country on the basis of a "I told you so" attitude its un British .  Many Remainers had their say at the referendum, still feel to stay is best, but have accepted the result and then hoped their country would leave with the best possible deal that could be negotiated for them. It's a pragmatic decision because the  vast majority will continue to live in the UK.  They are dismayed at what is going on, you are enjoying it. Ultimate failure would complete your enjoyment I assume. I mentioned it on another post.....there are people who when their football team goes 2nil down start cheering for the other team.

No one likes to see his homeland go to the dogs because, by chance, some weak-headed people want to play amateur theater. There is national pride in every country, that is not just a British phenomenon.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I don’t think we intended them to be our enemy. 

 

 

The main factor for the Billy Smart’s effect is the fact that 2 sides agreed the mechanics, of making a divorce decision, without having anything in place to implement/quantify that divorce.

 

For that I blame the EU and Cameron. The EU for having Article 50 in their locker without the manual explaining exactly what would happen if a member were to leave. Cameron (who would actually be the best PM to lead Brexit) I blame for either the arrogance in believing he could not lose the referendum, or the stupidity in not having an exit blueprint in place.. 

I was merely drawing a parallel to what was written, not intending to mean the EU is an enemy. It was naive, at a minimum, to think the Brexit process ended with the vote or that any part thereafter would not be painful.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I don’t think we intended them to be our enemy. 

 

 

The main factor for the Billy Smart’s effect is the fact that 2 sides agreed the mechanics, of making a divorce decision, without having anything in place to implement/quantify that divorce.

 

For that I blame the EU and Cameron. The EU for having Article 50 in their locker without the manual explaining exactly what would happen if a member were to leave. Cameron (who would actually be the best PM to lead Brexit) I blame for either the arrogance in believing he could not lose the referendum, or the stupidity in not having an exit blueprint in place.. 

Can agree.
A systematic mistake if an organization provides for a 2-year notice period, but makes the economic and financial plans for 5 years or more. Clear that there are then delimitation difficulties. Basically, at the time of the referendum, no one, neither Brexiteers nor Remainers, has fully thought through the problems, details,  issues and implications.

[Grouse]

The EU have handled the issue brilliantly without wheeling out the heavy artillery 

 

It seems to me that they are treating May and friends as recalcitrant teenagers.

 

As good parents know the idea is to let teenagers come to the correct decisions themselves and not be swayed by the unsavoury types who try to influence them.

 

No sensible people think Brexit is a good idea now. As Cable says break Brexit and spend money on the NHS. Best for EVERYONE except the Komodo Cons.

[AlexRich]

46 minutes ago, aright said:

At the National Election, not so long ago, something like 90% of the electorate voted for parties which supported Brexit The decision was made last year, you have to live with it, but not necessarily agree with it. Yes you are obviously British in name if you have a British passport.  No what it means is if you enjoy watching and hoping for the failure of your country on the basis of a "I told you so" attitude its un British .  Many Remainers had their say at the referendum, still feel to stay is best, but have accepted the result and then hoped their country would leave with the best possible deal that could be negotiated for them. It's a pragmatic decision because the  vast majority will continue to live in the UK.  They are dismayed at what is going on, you are enjoying it. Ultimate failure would complete your enjoyment I assume. I mentioned it on another post.....there are people who when their football team goes 2nil down start cheering for the other team.

 

At the national election Jeremy Corbyn gained a great deal more supporters than anyone, including him, expected. Part of that is due to his promise to leave the EU but stay within the customs union and free trading area ... the least worst option if you are a remainer. You can't take that as an endorsement of the Brexit vote ... if that were true then you should welcome a second referendum as the vote would, according to your theory, be overwhelmingly in favour of leaving ... but you don't want that, as you fear that it would go the other way. So there was no endorsement of Brexit, just a desire for the least worse outcome.

 

As for the shambles that is the negotiation, why shouldn't I laugh at the sad spectacle? Why should we all be expected to rally behind the Brexit banner? I'd like to see a second referendum on the "facts", as we will know them, rather than the "lies", that we can see unravelling. If you are a patriot and you want what's best for your country you fight for what you believe is right, not give up because of a narrow results referendum "opinion poll". Isn't that what Nigel Farage said at the start of voting? If it was a close call, like 48-52%, he'd keep up the good fight? Funny that he never mentioned it again after the vote!

 

 

[Jip99]

28 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Can agree.
A systematic mistake if an organization provides for a 2-year notice period, but makes the economic and financial plans for 5 years or more. Clear that there are then delimitation difficulties. Basically, at the time of the referendum, no one, neither Brexiteers nor Remainers, has fully thought through the problems, details,  issues and implications.

 

The voters could not possibly know the implications.....they were not available pre-vote.

 

A simple principle was voted upon... do you want to stay in the club or not.

 

I know several people who anguished overbtheir decision because remain was the ‘easy vote’, whilst leave came with a whole load of uncertainty.

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The EU have handled the issue brilliantly without wheeling out the heavy artillery 

 

It seems to me that they are treating May and friends as recalcitrant teenagers.

 

As good parents know the idea is to let teenagers come to the correct decisions themselves and not be swayed by the unsavoury types who try to influence them.

 

No sensible people think Brexit is a good idea now. As Cable says break Brexit and spend money on the NHS. Best for EVERYONE except the Komodo Cons.

 

 

Now or you are just making yourself look ridiculous..... not for the first time.

 

You and Cable make good bedfellows.

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Now or you are just making yourself look ridiculous..... not for the first time.

 

You and Cable make good bedfellows.

Thanks, Cable is an extremely capable and good man. Certainly clubbable!

 

Brexit is so passé now, so last year.

 

I repeat, no sensible person now thinks it's a good idea. Not one. Not even you really if you're  honest ?

Edited December 3, 2017 by Grouse
Is it an acute or a grave accent on passé?

[melvinmelvin]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The EU have handled the issue brilliantly without wheeling out the heavy artillery 

 

It seems to me that they are treating May and friends as recalcitrant teenagers.

 

As good parents know the idea is to let teenagers come to the correct decisions themselves and not be swayed by the unsavoury types who try to influence them.

 

No sensible people think Brexit is a good idea now. As Cable says break Brexit and spend money on the NHS. Best for EVERYONE except the Komodo Cons.

 

think you are fairly close to the mark with your first to sentences

 

and silly UK government plays up to the underdog role as best they can

 

 

[Jip99]

51 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I was merely drawing a parallel to what was written, not intending to mean the EU is an enemy. It was naive, at a minimum, to think the Brexit process ended with the vote or that any part thereafter would not be painful.

 

I understand.

 

I agree with your comment and the vote was certainly the START of the process.... everything else was a blank sheet of paper (mainly for the reasons mentioned above).

 

I knew that when I voted to leave. I also think that is what scared some remainers..... I have friends who voted to remain, believing it to be the safe option.

[Jip99]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Thanks, Cable is an extremely capable and good man. Certainly clubbable!

 

Brexit is so passé now, so last year.

 

I repeat, no sensible person now thinks it's a good idea. Not one. Not even you really if you're  honest ?

 

 

Your comments no no longer have any validity.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Your comments no no longer have any validity.

Is the double negative meant to be a positive? Or is that a no no?

 

From what I read, see and hear, only Brexit fudge is on the menu now; and extremely expensive too ?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Is the double negative meant to be a positive? Or is that a no no?

 

From what I read, see and hear, only Brexit fudge is on the menu now; and extremely expensive too ?

But don't you think that our Christmas dinner without Brussels is a big bonus.

[aright]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

 I have friends who voted to remain, believing it to be the safe option.

I suspect they are working class and were always envious they never had a nanny!

Like so many of their kind they can't help but grab their slag hammers when they remember what Christopher Robin did to his nurse . They call the act security planning!       

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

The EU have handled the issue brilliantly without wheeling out the heavy artillery 

 

It seems to me that they are treating May and friends as recalcitrant teenagers.

 

As good parents know the idea is to let teenagers come to the correct decisions themselves and not be swayed by the unsavoury types who try to influence them.

 

No sensible people think Brexit is a good idea now. As Cable says break Brexit and spend money on the NHS. Best for EVERYONE except the Komodo Cons.

Good evening Grouse,  'unsavoury types who try to influence them'. Thats interesting..I think we know where we get 'facts and figures' from..but why would you believe the BBC and news media?  all controlled by big corporations.

Independence make you strong...or perhaps you would like to pay me for making up silly rules in your house.

 

[aright]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Thanks, Cable is an extremely capable and good man. Certainly clubbable!

He is so good that perhaps you would like to tell us of the significant improvement in Liberal Democrat poll ratings since he became Leader of his Party.

Folks, I suspect we are now going to get a new UK Numpty rating of 80%.

 

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The EU are not behaving like a body that “needs us more than we need them”. So why doesn’t May say we are paying nothing? Because the impact research suggests that would be the ultimate bad deal ... the promises of the Brexiteers are unravelling before our eyes ... and the so-called “will of the people” (which we all must respect) appears to be bending. It’s fun to watch.

The promises by both sides were mainly all bad but you don't mention the rubbish spouted by Project Fear.

 

We can't leave and pay nothing, there were always obligations. We still don't have confirmation or details of what the reported figure is and what it is supposed to include.