May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The fundamental confusion in the Hard Brexiteer case is that they confuse Brexit with the form of Brexit. They conflate the two. Now their position is exposed with Theresa May committed to completing Brexit but at the same time negotiating the form that Brexit takes and managing to complete the first hurdle with a chance of getting a second stage result without crashing out. That just leaves certain Hard Brexiteers now wanting Theresa May out in favour of a PM committed to a car crash exit. And rolling out the bombastic statements for the mood music.

Mystic mumbles.

[Steve Mepham]

Having been involved in many " negotiations " some very friendly and some very hostile I am absolutely staggered at the incompetence of the UK negotiators. I accept to a certain degree that their every move is being dissected, commented on etc but I have to say what they have managed to end up with after the so called stage 1 talks seems to be about the worst scenario they could have ended up with.

We now have a situation where May is telling us that nothing has been agreed until all has been agreed and the EU telling us that the stage 1 agreement will be written into law immaterial as to what happens going forward. somebody is telling porkies and is going to be found out in a matter of weeks. I simply don't see how you can ever agree a settlement figure when you have absolutely no idea of what that settlement is.

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Some of your fellow brexiteers do seem to understand what I mean.

Strange.

Now tell us more about your views on the democratic nature of referenda.

What exactly did the brexit referendum mean: soft or hard brexit, remain, or was it just meaningless?

 

Bertrand Russell: A statement can be either true, false or meaningless. Now that's what I call usefull philosophy!

 

Go back 800 pages and you can find out what I mean. I can't be ar$ed to go through all that again for you.

 

The referendum was not an egg to be cooked to order!

Although eggs are extremely versatile and useful . 

[i claudius]

why would i be worried ,i got what i wanted ,its you that keeps bleating on . Just accept it ,your the bridsmaid ,not the bride .

Best answer i have heard so far.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I have answered that question before, but I will oblige, as I know you are forgetfull.

 

1/ European integration has ended centuries of European wars.

2/ Economic integration, even on a mundial scale, can not be stopped. But we should try to steer it.

3/ Economic integration is the only way to fight the existence of "Tax Paradises"  and "Social Legislation Loopholes" that favour the filthy rich, at the expense of the productive members of society.

4/ All humans have the same human rights to work and travel. That right can of course not be established overnight, but at the very least we should move in the right direction.

5/ Fully independent countries will disappear, just like previously fully independent cities and dinosaurs disappeared.

 

However, since the UK has for decades used strong arm tactics to get exceptions and opt outs, I am pleased to be rid of them. No more profiteers stepping on the breaks.

The UK is welcome to reapply for membership soon as they accept majority rule.

 

 

1/ Rubbish.

2/ Ditto.

3/ Ditto.

4/ But we shouldn't move in the wrong direction.

5/ Hopefully a suitably sized meteor will land in Brussels in that case.

Edited December 18, 2017 by nauseus

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Between France and Germany?

With the rest of Europe choosing sides?

As it was for centuries?

 

All kinds of possibilities looming everywhere at the moment, unfortunately.

[Grouse]

18 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Quantum theory predicts that Grouse can be in two places at the same time... on a bottle, and on the forum.

Only until you observe me; at which point the probability wave function collapses.

 

However, if I am on a bottle, I can see two of everything!

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

The forum Hard Brexiteers are now split between those backing Theresa May and those who wish to bring her down. However, they are continuing their contributions as if nothing has happened. For the ones opposing Theresa she is now an EU lackey and Enemy of the People. For those backing Theresa May, they will jump ship if she falls from back-stabbing by the uber Brexiteers. Old-school opportunists.

Previously.....on The Crystal Ball.

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

All kinds of possibilities looming everywhere at the moment, unfortunately.

?

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course, brexiteers would rather forget how brexit came about.

Au contraire! 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Sounds good but totally inaccurate.

Say how?

[Grouse]

18 hours ago, talahtnut said:

No, but they are robbing us of sovereignty and cash.

What? our 0.4% of GDP camp fees? Good god, man! It's hardly a fortune!

 

As for sovereignty, we share it with the EU and NATO and others

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

?

 

Yes, I expected you to say that.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Yes, I have not blamed the EU for SJ in UK. I was merely pointing out that SJ in the UK has worsened during the 44 years of the EU membership, so how would Grouse assume SJ would improve if we remain...I have simply been hastily misread.    The UK gov. has never liked SJ.

Osmosis

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, nontabury said:

We have a number of E.U citizens on this thread, who wish for the U.K. to remain in this so called union. I wonder why?

 

 

 

They're nice people who care about us?

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

I think you’ll find that it was the American and British money, that financed NATO, that had something to do with peace.

In the E.U it will not be the people who steer titanic, but the unelected Commissioners in Brussels, and their rich backers.

The E.U. Is for the benefit of the rich, multi national corporations and the so called elite. Not that those who have been brain washed will realise.

When everybody is starting off from the same level playing field, then yes, people may accept free movement, along of course with a willingness to integration.

 And so May democracy.

Silly comment about NATO and EU.

 

Clearly you STILL don't understand.

 

You really think NATO has kept the peace WITHIN Europe? Ridiculous.

 

Certainly held back the USSR and now Russia but as for stopping European internecine wars? Nonsense.

[taipeir]

IMHO this does not make you stronger, it creates more difficulty because you have to negotiate for 27 Countries who all have different interests to protect. this is why trade deals take 7 8 9 10 years, because any one Country can veto.

....while forgetting the huge achievement of 27 neighbouring countries having the best trade deal in the world.

[oldhippy]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

They're nice people who care about us?

I answered the question, but our friend did not bother to reply.

 

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Right. And the meek shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are the cheese makers!

[taipeir]

On our overcrowded planet, there are no more undiscovered locations where speed for trade deals is important. A trade agreement with the EU is a treaty with 27/28 countries. How long would it take for a country to negotiate individual trade agreements with 27/28 countries separately?
The UK's exit from the EU is causing problems not only for its continued participation in the EU single market. Also, the total of 53 trade agreements that have been concluded by the EU with third countries are no longer valid for the UK economy after leaving.
As a result, the UK would have to renegotiate all these numerous treaties bilaterally. The renegotiation of so many individual contracts and details alone would occupy and push the British government for years to the limit of its capacity

Can be succinctly summarised as throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Wah.... Its the immigrants.
Wah...Its the bully boy Europeans (and the UK is ?)

Wah...If we could just take back control and give it to the Tories and leave our betters in charge . After all they were born to rule.

Wah..If only we had no regulations and low taxes so we could drive the cost of everything down and....

Baby with the bathwater.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

O.K. Not to disappoint you, here again the opinion of a salt of the earth British citizen. He may not talk with pebbles in his mouth, but he does talk common sense. And believe you me, from someone who used to live in the Barnsley district, 

they will stand up for their rights.

 

 

 

 

They will stand up for their rights even when they're wrongs!

[Steve Mepham]

2 minutes ago, taipeir said:

Can be succinctly summarised as throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Wah.... Its the immigrants.
Wah...Its the bully boy Europeans (and the UK is ?)

Wah...If we could just take back control and give it to the Tories and leave our betters in charge . After all they were born to rule.

Wah..If only we had no regulations and low taxes so we could drive the cost of everything down and....

Baby with the bathwater.
 

Why does everybody become such a drama queen over this subject.

 

The Immigrants as you choose to call them have overwhelmed the infrastructure of the UK, Hospital waiting lists GP appointments, school places, everything is coming apart at the seams. and then we are told that ALL Immigrants actually pay more in than they take out, in which case why are we still cutting back, surely our cups would be running over, we would be building hospitals, increasing Police numbers etc, but still we spend more than we earn. And please don't tell me the answer is Tax the rich, its not the rich that are overwhelming our services.

 

Like it or not the open door immigration policy of Tony Blair and his boys have set the working man back 50 years, wages and conditions are down and rents and the costs of houses due to demand have gone up alarmingly. Friends of mine in the UK are earning less now than they were 10 years ago, anything you have a glut of pushes prices down. 

 

This is not about race in anyway, this is a numbers game, more and more people fighting over the same space so that we can increase GDP by 1 or 2% a year, its nuts. 

 

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, Steve Mepham said:

Why does everybody become such a drama queen over this subject.

 

The Immigrants as you choose to call them have overwhelmed the infrastructure of the UK, Hospital waiting lists GP appointments, school places, everything is coming apart at the seams. and then we are told that ALL Immigrants actually pay more in than they take out, in which case why are we still cutting back, surely our cups would be running over, we would be building hospitals, increasing Police numbers etc, but still we spend more than we earn. And please don't tell me the answer is Tax the rich, its not the rich that are overwhelming our services.

 

Like it or not the open door immigration policy of Tony Blair and his boys have set the working man back 50 years, wages and conditions are down and rents and the costs of houses due to demand have gone up alarmingly. Friends of mine in the UK are earning less now than they were 10 years ago, anything you have a glut of pushes prices down. 

 

This is not about race in anyway, this is a numbers game, more and more people fighting over the same space so that we can increase GDP by 1 or 2% a year, its nuts. 

 

QUOTE: And please don't tell me the answer is Tax the rich, its not the rich that are overwhelming our services.

 

Yes tax the rich, not in theory but in practice. The rich don't pay taxes, they "avoid" taxes with their off shore constructions.

Yes the rich ARE overwhelming our services: they use them but pay nothing into them.

 

[taipeir]

Why does everybody become such a drama queen over this subject.   The Immigrants as you choose to call them have overwhelmed the infrastructure of the UK, Hospital waiting lists GP appointments, school places, everything is coming apart at the seams. and then we are told that ALL Immigrants actually pay more in than they take out, in which case why are we still cutting back, surely our cups would be running over, we would be building hospitals, increasing Police numbers etc, but still we spend more than we earn. And please don't tell me the answer is Tax the rich, its not the rich that are overwhelming our services.  

Like it or not the open door immigration policy of Tony Blair and his boys have set the working man back 50 years, wages and conditions are down and rents and the costs of houses due to demand have gone up alarmingly. Friends of mine in the UK are earning less now than they were 10 years ago, anything you have a glut of pushes prices down. 

 

This is not about race in anyway, this is a numbers game, more and more people fighting over the same space so that we can increase GDP by 1 or 2% a year, its nuts. 

 

 

 

 

It wasn't the immigrants that caused this but the UK's poor economic and political choices. For instance I fail to see how it was foreigners fault that the UK stopped investing in other cities besides London? 

Or that the comfortable buffer of North Sea oil ran out ?

 

Or that Thatcher decided to go all in on the City instead of supporting the manufacturing industry to retool?

 

It wasn't immigrants who landed all the venerable old British industrial giants with debt , broke them up and sold them off.

 

Its not the immigrants who own one third of UK land in aristocratic family trusts and vast urban areas for hundreds of years.

 

Its not the immigrants who implemented NIMBY planning laws.

 

Its not the immigrants who decide to light tax the high earners.

 

Its not the immigrants who instructed universal social credit.

 

Its not the immigrants who didn't decide to become nurse or caregivers or agricultural workers.

 

So to blame the 'immigrants' for economic decay and polarisation and lack of investment is pretty Risible and lazy thinking of the highest order.

 

Many other neighbouring countries like Germany, France , Ireland and Sweden have large numbers of immigrants and are doing pretty well and in fact in some cases better than ever.

 

Besides you are still going to get large numbers of migrants due to the historical British empire links and the service based economy which needs skilled and unskilled labour so not much is going to change anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, Steve Mepham said:

Why does everybody become such a drama queen over this subject.

 

The Immigrants as you choose to call them have overwhelmed the infrastructure of the UK, Hospital waiting lists GP appointments, school places, everything is coming apart at the seams. and then we are told that ALL Immigrants actually pay more in than they take out, in which case why are we still cutting back, surely our cups would be running over, we would be building hospitals, increasing Police numbers etc, but still we spend more than we earn. And please don't tell me the answer is Tax the rich, its not the rich that are overwhelming our services.

 

Like it or not the open door immigration policy of Tony Blair and his boys have set the working man back 50 years, wages and conditions are down and rents and the costs of houses due to demand have gone up alarmingly. Friends of mine in the UK are earning less now than they were 10 years ago, anything you have a glut of pushes prices down. 

 

This is not about race in anyway, this is a numbers game, more and more people fighting over the same space so that we can increase GDP by 1 or 2% a year, its nuts. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: And please don't tell me the answer is Tax the rich, its not the rich that are overwhelming our services.

 

Yes tax the rich, not in theory but in practice. The rich don't pay taxes, they "avoid" taxes with their off shore constructions.

Yes the rich ARE overwhelming our services: they use them but pay nothing into them.

 

I don't think you understand. Steve Mepham isn't trying to get to the bottom of this. This is a game. And now he's ruled out using the rich as a reason for the shortage of housing and services.

It's true that the Tories have repeatedly given tax cuts to the rich and slashed revenues.

It's true that to accommodate this they have slashed funding for housing

It's true that they are cutting back on the national health service

It's true that they are cutting back on social services.

But those actions don't count because Steve Mepham has ruled them out of bounds.

Let the game go on!

[taipeir]

I don't think you understand. Steve Mepham isn't trying to get to the bottom of this. This is a game. And now he's ruled out using the rich as a reason for the shortage of housing and services. It's true that the Tories have repeatedly given tax cuts to the rich and slashed revenues. It's true that to accommodate this they have slashed funding for housing

It's true that they are cutting back on the national health service

It's true that they are cutting back on social services.

But those actions don't count because Steve Mepham has ruled them out of bounds.

Let the game go on!

 

 

It always amazes me about British people. You allow aristocratic families including your royal family to own vast estates meanwhile your people are crammed into overpriced small apartments or old houses in strictly zoned cities.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328270/A-Britain-STILL-belongs-aristocracy.html

 

Giant blind spot.

 

But look over there..Royal wedding and cute babies.

 

 

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, taipeir said:

It always amazes me about British people. 

You allow aristocratic families including your royal family to own vast estates meanwhile your people are crammed into overpriced small apartments or old houses in strictly zoned cities.

 

Giant blind spot.

 

 

 

 

European farang no understand UK.

 

[tomacht8]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Tell that to the Australians.

 

Plans by the UK and European Union to share quotas for cheap food imports after Brexit have come under fire from Australia.

Restrictions on how many products can be imported into the EU on favourable rates are set across the bloc and concerns have been raised internationally that exporters could take a financial hit when the UK quits.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/25/australia-raises-doubts-over-post-brexit-plans-for-eu-food-import-quotas

It seems that Barry Gardiner is one of the few with expertise in details.

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

They will stand up for their rights even when they're wrongs!

They’re TRUE Yorkshire folk. Not imposters pretending that they are.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, taipeir said:

It wasn't the immigrants that caused this but the UK's poor economic and political choices. For instance I fail to see how it was foreigners fault that the UK stopped investing in other cities besides London? 

Or that the comfortable buffer of North Sea oil ran out ?

 

Or that Thatcher decided to go all in on the City instead of supporting the manufacturing industry to retool?

 

It wasn't immigrants who landed all the venerable old British industrial giants with debt , broke them up and sold them off.

 

Its not the immigrants who own one third of UK land in aristocratic family trusts and vast urban areas for hundreds of years.

 

Its not the immigrants who implemented NIMBY planning laws.

 

Its not the immigrants who decide to light tax the high earners.

 

Its not the immigrants who instructed universal social credit.

 

Its not the immigrants who didn't decide to become nurse or caregivers or agricultural workers.

 

So to blame the 'immigrants' for economic decay and polarisation and lack of investment is pretty Risible and lazy thinking of the highest order.

 

Many other neighbouring countries like Germany, France , Ireland and Sweden have large numbers of immigrants and are doing pretty well and in fact in some cases better than ever.

 

Besides you are still going to get large numbers of migrants due to the historical British empire links and the service based economy which needs skilled and unskilled labour so not much is going to change anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I “ m still waiting for your answer. Why do you, a E.U citizens want us to remain in your so called Union.