Best soundproofing material?

[Guderian]

The house next door has old air cons that they don’t keep serviced and over time they get to be very noisy. I’ve spoken to the owner before about it and he got some people in to fix the problem but slowly I can hear the noise coming back again.

 

The simplest thing is to extend the wall between the two houses right up to roof level. Conveniently the owner of the house next door extended his roof all the way out to the property boundary so the alleyway at the side of his house where the compressors are located will effectively be boxed-in.

 

My handy man thinks that some thick cement fibre board is the best solution to extend the existing wall about 1 meter vertically up to roof level and keep the sound out. I’d prefer to use bricks all the way but he says he’s not sure that the footings for the wall are strong enough to take the extra weight.

 

Does anybody have any experience with this sort of problem and can you recommend what to use as soundproofing material to extend the wall upwards? It’s exposed to the rain so needs to be weatherproof. I also want it to be the reflective sort of soundproofing material rather than the absorptive type, on the basis that keeping the sound echoing around in their boxed-in alleyway might disturb them enough inside their house to force them to keep their compressors in better knick.

 

Any suggestions other than cement fibre board?

[UdeBoCM]

I did just that to the wall separating me from my neighbor and I find the result efficient. The extension is 1,70 m high and the footing although thin (like any single concrete block wall) was sufficient to use "aerated blocks" (a mix of foam and plaster) such has these http://buriram-house-builder.blogspot.com/2013/07/buriram-q-con-autoclaved-lightweight.html. They commonly called them "Shera" here, although it's a brand name that probably make many other products.

You will have to built reinforced concrete separators (fixed into the existing wall) a insert these blocks  between them.

[jaiyen]

I was involved with industrial acoustics for many years and have even built 100% silent rooms for Telecom research.  If you use Rockwool as the insulating and acoustic material with Plasterboard on your side and some kind of steel e.g. Colorbond ,  on the neighbours side to reflect the noise back at him it will work very efficiently.  Try making a small panel first to test the effectiveness. Another option is to build an acoustic enclosure for his noisy compressors.

[sandrabbit]

16 minutes ago, jaiyen said:

I was involved with industrial acoustics for many years and have even built 100% silent rooms for Telecom research.  If you use Rockwool as the insulating and acoustic material with Plasterboard on your side and some kind of steel e.g. Colorbond ,  on the neighbours side to reflect the noise back at him it will work very efficiently.  Try making a small panel first to test the effectiveness. Another option is to build an acoustic enclosure for his noisy compressors.

I used to work for Rockwool in the UK as a shift electrician on breakdown maintenance and I'm a big fan of the product, we have it insulating our house here. The really dense slab as opposed to the 'wool'  is a brilliant acoustic insulator but I fear would be too expensive to use in this situation. It's compulsory now in the UK for supermarket ceilings as Sainsbury's had a few roof void fires and one when a store was open, it will withstand 1400C for 30 mins and if I remember correctly it was about £400 for a 3 by 2m  slab with I think 120mm thickness. They have a factory here in Map ta Phut , Rayong.

[Strange]

As the other poster said, you can use the q-con blocks no problem. They are a little more expensive per block but require less blocks, mortar, and redner to complete. They are lighter too. This is going to be the easiest and most effective option imho. The materials are sold everywhere and the locals will know what to do with them. 

[Kwasaki]

Composite sealed foam as used in cold warehouses.

[Laza 45]

I would suggest using these light weight aerated concrete blocks.. here they call them something like 'mon-bow'.. ..they are white.. light in comparison to concrete blocks and very good insulators.. noise and heat...  I've used them here as well in Australia.. very easy to work with and not a lot more expensive than traditional concrete blocks.. I've seen them used a lot here lately...   

 

http://www.vconthai.com/block/

[UdeBoCM]

1 minute ago, Laza 45 said:

I would suggest using these light weight aerated concrete blocks.. here they call them something like 'mon-bow'.. ..they are white.. light in comparison to concrete blocks and very good insulators.. noise and heat...  I've used them here as well in Australia.. very easy to work with and not a lot more expensive than traditional concrete blocks.. I've seen them used a lot here lately...   

 

http://www.vconthai.com/block/

This is what my post was about. Blocks are easily available everywhere.

 

[khunPer]

The more heavy material, the better sound proofing – a concrete wall (concrete blocks with plaster may do,  autoclaved aerated concrete blocks, called "Q-Con" in Thailand, are better) will stop a lot of the sound, however reflections back to your neighbor may reflect from their house over the new higher part of the wall and from your roof edge down to your side. Sound reflections and so-called standing (sound) waves can be serious bastards to get rid of (talking from experience from my my years in pro audio and recording studio business). Keeping the side towards the sound source absorbing, or just not smooth (reflecting in different directions), may be better, i.e. uneven or grooved plaster. Fiber-cement plates will not work very well as sound-proof, as the material shall be heavy and unable to vibrate.

[mortenaa]

The cheapest solution is probably to buy your neighbor a Daikin Inverter. You will have have a friend forever, your neighbor will have a better, electricity saving A/C. He will sleep better at night, and so will you! :)

[khundon]

Best soundproofing material?

 

Distance from the noise.

[Guderian]

On 24/10/2016 at 2:59 PM, UdeBoCM said:

I did just that to the wall separating me from my neighbor and I find the result efficient. The extension is 1,70 m high and the footing although thin (like any single concrete block wall) was sufficient to use "aerated blocks" (a mix of foam and plaster) such has these http://buriram-house-builder.blogspot.com/2013/07/buriram-q-con-autoclaved-lightweight.html. They commonly called them "Shera" here, although it's a brand name that probably make many other products.

You will have to built reinforced concrete separators (fixed into the existing wall) a insert these blocks  between them.

 

Thanks for the reply. I should have posted a picture of the situation as it’s slightly more complicated than just a wall. I have a security railing running down the length of the wall. An Indian guy bought the empty place next door and extended the original wall height on his side of the railing by around a metre using those small, red bricks. This left an ugly mess on my side so I had my builder install cement fibre board and paint it. This is how it looks today.

 

He can cut off the hooks at the top as I own the railing and that will give us clear vertical access, but width-wise he only has half the original wall thickness to play with due to the security railing. That rules the lightweight aerated cement blocks out as I’ve only ever seen the full size ones and they are too big for this purpose. That’s why I was thinking of using the small, red bricks to build a wall on my side but my builder says the footings might not take the extra weight and the last thing I want is the whole wall subsiding.

 

[Guderian]

On 24/10/2016 at 3:26 PM, jaiyen said:

I was involved with industrial acoustics for many years and have even built 100% silent rooms for Telecom research.  If you use Rockwool as the insulating and acoustic material with Plasterboard on your side and some kind of steel e.g. Colorbond ,  on the neighbours side to reflect the noise back at him it will work very efficiently.  Try making a small panel first to test the effectiveness. Another option is to build an acoustic enclosure for his noisy compressors.

 

Thanks. I need to seal the top of the gap behind the cement fibre board I already have installed and the wall built by the neighbours behind it so that the sound doesn’t make its way down behind the fibre board and then out through the gaps. My builder wants to use aerosol cans of foam, but I think Rockwool might be cheaper and easier.

 

My question is: is the wool version of Rockwool fully weatherproof, will it stand years of exposure to the tropical rain and sun?

[Guderian]

On 24/10/2016 at 3:52 PM, sandrabbit said:

I used to work for Rockwool in the UK as a shift electrician on breakdown maintenance and I'm a big fan of the product, we have it insulating our house here. The really dense slab as opposed to the 'wool'  is a brilliant acoustic insulator but I fear would be too expensive to use in this situation. It's compulsory now in the UK for supermarket ceilings as Sainsbury's had a few roof void fires and one when a store was open, it will withstand 1400C for 30 mins and if I remember correctly it was about £400 for a 3 by 2m  slab with I think 120mm thickness. They have a factory here in Map ta Phut , Rayong.

 

Thanks, and it probably would be a good solution, but it's way too expensive for my budget. I want to get this wall extended up to their rain gutter for around 10K Baht.

[Guderian]

On 24/10/2016 at 6:47 PM, Laza 45 said:

I would suggest using these light weight aerated concrete blocks.. here they call them something like 'mon-bow'.. ..they are white.. light in comparison to concrete blocks and very good insulators.. noise and heat...  I've used them here as well in Australia.. very easy to work with and not a lot more expensive than traditional concrete blocks.. I've seen them used a lot here lately...   

 

http://www.vconthai.com/block/

 

Thanks, please see the picture and my reply in post #12.

[Guderian]

On 24/10/2016 at 7:18 PM, khunPer said:

The more heavy material, the better sound proofing – a concrete wall (concrete blocks with plaster may do,  autoclaved aerated concrete blocks, called "Q-Con" in Thailand, are better) will stop a lot of the sound, however reflections back to your neighbor may reflect from their house over the new higher part of the wall and from your roof edge down to your side. Sound reflections and so-called standing (sound) waves can be serious bastards to get rid of (talking from experience from my my years in pro audio and recording studio business). Keeping the side towards the sound source absorbing, or just not smooth (reflecting in different directions), may be better, i.e. uneven or grooved plaster. Fiber-cement plates will not work very well as sound-proof, as the material shall be heavy and unable to vibrate.

 

Please see the picture in post #12. As I mentioned in the OP the Indian owner conveniently extended the roof all the way out to the property boundary. If I install something like cement fibre board it can go up to and maybe even a bit beyond his rain gutter. Admittedly there will be a small gap between the gutter and the fibre board, maybe a centimetre or two, but it should make a pretty effective enclosure to box in his compressors and the noise they make. If the small gap is a problem then the builder can always seal it using aerosols of foam.

 

I know that a single layer of cement fibre board (or whatever I end up using) is not going to solve the noise problem completely, but I'm hoping it will keep enough of the acoustic energy on his side that it will make his tenants' lives unbearable rather than disturbing me.

[Guderian]

On 24/10/2016 at 8:47 PM, mortenaa said:

The cheapest solution is probably to buy your neighbor a Daikin Inverter. You will have have a friend forever, your neighbor will have a better, electricity saving A/C. He will sleep better at night, and so will you! :)

 

My budget for this is around 10K Baht, that won't pay for a new compressor even if I was willing to buy one for the antisocial prats living there.

[Guderian]

5 hours ago, khundon said:

Best soundproofing material?

 

Distance from the noise.

 

Absolutely, but this is a bit like politics, you have to deal with what's possible not what's ideal.

[sandrabbit]

2 hours ago, Guderian said:

 

Thanks. I need to seal the top of the gap behind the cement fibre board I already have installed and the wall built by the neighbours behind it so that the sound doesn’t make its way down behind the fibre board and then out through the gaps. My builder wants to use aerosol cans of foam, but I think Rockwool might be cheaper and easier.

 

 

 

My question is: is the wool version of Rockwool fully weatherproof, will it stand years of exposure to the tropical rain and sun?

 

Rockwool is literally various rocks (mixture varies depending on application) melted in a blast furnace  then spun like candy floss which is then gathered on conveyor systems, the reality is quite a bit more technical and long winded. This means it won't be effected by weather but the wool will collect debris and water.  See their website below

 

 

http://www.rockwoolasia.com/products+and+solutions/u/2011.construction/9686/External+walls

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, Guderian said:

 

Please see the picture in post #12. As I mentioned in the OP the Indian owner conveniently extended the roof all the way out to the property boundary. If I install something like cement fibre board it can go up to and maybe even a bit beyond his rain gutter. Admittedly there will be a small gap between the gutter and the fibre board, maybe a centimetre or two, but it should make a pretty effective enclosure to box in his compressors and the noise they make. If the small gap is a problem then the builder can always seal it using aerosols of foam.

 

I know that a single layer of cement fibre board (or whatever I end up using) is not going to solve the noise problem completely, but I'm hoping it will keep enough of the acoustic energy on his side that it will make his tenants' lives unbearable rather than disturbing me.

You can obtain some noise reduction by expanding the fiber cement planks up to full high of the metal grille, but you will need to fill the gap between the planks, which can be done by adding another plank over the gap, i.e. so-called one-on-two. To make sure the gap-closing plank works, use silicone (or like) in a long strip over and under the gap to seal any openings. Just a small tiny openings – or gap between the planks – will let the noise happily pass through...

 

If the compressor(s) generate low frequency sound, that can generate standing wave between the house wall and your planks, making your planks vibrate and even amplify the low frequency sound (like a deep hum). Difficult to say, when one is not at the spot and can listen to the noise-source (human ears are still the best measuring instrument, when it comes to sound).

 

Often a solution may be a number of steps, to see if an improvement is enough, or more need to be done. Making calculations is extremely difficult, as so many factors of reflections and surfaces need to be included...

 

The suggested Rockwool (a well known product from my homeland) is great as "sound trap", but not as sound isolation, as it's not heavy enough; however "trapping" sound, or noise, will reduce the sound-level. Rockwool, and similar products, can be used as acoustic plates (sound trapping), or between thin walls like gypsum plates on a wood or steel skeleton, to kill standing waves between the two plates, from making the plate-walls vibrate. Unprotected soft Rockwool used outdoor will be damaged by time, probably quickly under Thai weather conditions. Furthermore uncovered Rockwool (and like stone and glass fiber products) is a health damager, dangerous like asbestos. High frequency sound waves can be stopped by rockwool, as well as a thick curtain. SCG (Home Mart) produce a nice sound-trap fiber plate for acoustic improvement, it covered with cloth outside, so I'm not sure about long-term weatherproof, underneath is a strong fiber-product, that seem waterproof. Acoustics and isolation are two different things, however acoustic are an important factor in noise reduction and sound isolation.

 

Normally we would make a lightweight (i.e. not stone or bricks) sound isolation wall of a steel skeleton, and two 13 mm gypsum-plates on each side, both to make it heavy, and to cover the plate gaps, as the plates are displaced relative to each other; the plates would be glued-together/sealed by silicone and screwed onto the skeleton. The the 50 mm or 100 mm separation between the plates, would be filled with rockwool.  That would give a good sound isolation. Best when made with two separate steel skeletons, not in contact with each other, and 300 mm Rockwool in the separation, which could give 50 dB to 60 dB soundproofing. You can probably use fibercement (waterproof) plates instead of gypsum, just the plates are thick and heavy.

 

But as another poster suggested, installing a modern silent inverter-type aircon unit may be a cheaper solution and probably win-win, as your neighbor will save on the electric bill...

[Laza 45]

4 hours ago, Guderian said:

 

Thanks, please see the picture and my reply in post #12.

I see the problem.. starting again from the footing up may be the best solution in the end.. tinkering with what is there could end up looking like a patch up job and something you aren't happy with ultimately.. of course cost is a consideration..  

[sandrabbit]

 

On ‎26‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:51 PM, khunPer said:

Unprotected soft Rockwool used outdoor will be damaged by time, probably quickly under Thai weather conditions. Furthermore uncovered Rockwool (and like stone and glass fiber products) is a health damager, dangerous like asbestos

 

Rockwool 'wool' doesn't break down but will just trap debris & moisture plus attract wildlife, to recycle Rockwool it's shredded then mixed with a molasses solution and formed into briquettes which are then added to the normal furnace charge. Rockwool is non carcinogenic but can be an irritant to both skin and lungs but it dissolves in the lungs and eventually it's excreted from the body. It took me 4 years to stop itching when I worked for them, the uncured wool before it's heated to 850C ( if I remember correctly) is extremely irritating. In the 90's Rockwool did change some of the recipes when the WHO & EU considered some ingredients to be possibly carcinogenic.

 

On ‎26‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:51 PM, khunPer said:

The suggested Rockwool (a well known product from my homeland) is great as "sound trap", but not as sound isolation, as it's not heavy enough; however "trapping" sound, or noise, will reduce the sound-level.

 

The Rockwool 'slab' works very well for sound isolation but it's way beyond the budget of this job, it would probably cheaper to build a house. ....

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, sandrabbit said:

 

On 10/26/2016 at 8:51 AM, khunPer said:

Unprotected soft Rockwool used outdoor will be damaged by time, probably quickly under Thai weather conditions. Furthermore uncovered Rockwool (and like stone and glass fiber products) is a health damager, dangerous like asbestos

 

Rockwool 'wool' doesn't break down but will just trap debris & moisture plus attract wildlife, to recycle Rockwool it's shredded then mixed with a molasses solution and formed into briquettes which are then added to the normal furnace charge. Rockwool is non carcinogenic but can be an irritant to both skin and lungs but it dissolves in the lungs and eventually it's excreted from the body. It took me 4 years to stop itching when I worked for them, the uncured wool before it's heated to 850C ( if I remember correctly) is extremely irritating. In the 90's Rockwool did change some of the recipes when the WHO & EU considered some ingredients to be possibly carcinogenic.

 

On 10/26/2016 at 8:51 AM, khunPer said:

The suggested Rockwool (a well known product from my homeland) is great as "sound trap", but not as sound isolation, as it's not heavy enough; however "trapping" sound, or noise, will reduce the sound-level.

 

The Rockwool 'slab' works very well for sound isolation but it's way beyond the budget of this job, it would probably cheaper to build a house. ....

Thanks for your comments, but I said "damaged by time", I'm not taking about "break down".

 

The soft Rockwool will easily fall apart and bits and pieces end up on the ground, and it will also sink with reduced effect to follow; and furthermore, as you state, also trap debris & moisture & some wildlife. For outdoor use Rockwool recommend their hard pressed bales, covered with plaster – a very cheap alternative with great heat insulation – actually cut the bales into hand-able bricks, dip them in aqueous liquid mortar and stack them, finally plaster them as a wall (I've been working in an association group together with Rockwool head-office at Hedehusene, Denmark, for use of their material in restauration of old thatched farm houses, for both heat insulation and fire protection, they actually burned identical houses to test the difference with and without).

 

Mineral wool has been suspected to be carcinogenic and several studies over a number of decades confirmed this, but since there are no really usable good alternatives to mineral wool, this should be hushed up. Some new studies around the millennium, including animal experiments, dropped out in favor of mineral wool and avoidance of EU Directive – Rockwool had a cancer risk of only 30 percent – but was highly debated in Denmark and among the Danish labor organizations. However, unprotected mineral wool is irritating – as you also seem to have experienced – so no reason to use it uncovered; the mineral wool I've seen for sale in Thailand are covered in heat-reflecting material (alu foil or...?).

 

Concerning sound isolation and sound acoustics, anyone knowing about the subject will know the difference, and that the soft mineral wool bales do not isolate (apart from high frequencies), but trap sound, and is an excellent material for acoustics; for example often used inside speaker cabinets against standing waves, until the days where PVC-fiber-material could replace it. The hard pressed bales are better sound isolators, but not ideal. Many a huge hall has been acoustically damped by mineral wool bales behind thin masonite-plates with small holes – the size and dispersion of holes would trap different waves – this is acoustics, not sound isolation; the latter is a question of reducing sound coming out of a room, or into a room, or migrant between two sites. The use of mineral wool believed to be a sound isolator between two gypsum plates is, that the mineral wool (or whatever fiber material like paper-wool, or PVC-fiber-wool, or lamb-wool) will trap sound waves – apart from being heat insulator – without the heavy gypsum-material, the sound isolation would be limited. Easy experiment: Bang a 13 mm (or so, 50 mm also Okay) mineral wool bale up in front of a window, and check sound isolation, now screw a 13 mm gypsum plate up instead...

The main benefit of mineral wool in building constructions is that it's fire proofed.