DNR or Living Will in 2016

[UniqueWord]

Evening All,
I've been doing some research on what can be done in the event of your imminent death when you are incapable of expressing your wishes for a termination without extraordinary measures being taken.
My searches on TVF for DNR Orders and Living Wills have yielded results for information from 2010, but nothing more up to date.
I am not anticipating an earlier departure than I would like, but the facts are clear to me that my life expectancy is below average.  This is because in 1993 I acquired a degenerative nerve disease, which only in the past 6-8 years has started to affect me.  No, it's not freaking HIV, for those members whose tastes run to salacious comments on lifestyle, it is known as CIDP and can be easily Googled.  Not a pretty subject, but there are worse, and if that's as bad as it gets, then I'll be happy to go with it.
As they say, "Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't".
The focus of this post is that I want advice on how to structure a document which my legal wife, who is Thai,  can use to terminate resuscitation or extraordinary measures to maintain what would otherwise be a terminal condition, with my prior approval when I had mental capacity.  This document would and should be stand-alone, because of my understanding of previous postings from TVF, and also because I have no meaningful assets to disburse.
Cheers, UW.

[Sheryl]

The law on this was passed and a lawyer should be able to help you draw up  a document which meets Thai legal requirements. If you google "living will + Thailand + lawyers " several will appear that specifically advertise this service.

 

Be advised though that most private hospitals seem to want this executed on their own special forms. So I suggest you also ask at whatever hospital(s) you usually receive treatment at and arrange to execute the form with them as well - do both (general directive plus hospital form) since it could happen that you'd end up in a different hospital.

 

Your wife is critical to this process - she needs to understand your wishes and be prepared to assert them to Thai doctors, and have copies of the all the documents.

 

 

 

 

[UniqueWord]

Many thanks, Sheryl.  I was unaware the law had been passed.  When I Googled 'DNR' it didn't get any results, and 'Living Will' got your thread from 2010, so I thought it was still an infertile subject here.  Has the subject matured enough to have a pro-forma General Elective available for someone to simply insert personal details and then have it notarised?  Your point about Private Hospitals and their Special Forms is appreciated and I will act on that advice, but possibly there is a pro-forma for the catch-all solution.  Do you have any insight on what the position of the Government hospitals are on the subject?

Thanks again. UW.

[Sheryl]

I haven't heard any reports on this vis-a-vis government hospitals as yet. The law is new and most Thais are unaware of it...including, unfortunately, some doctors.

 

AFAIK there is no form, just general provisions of what the document should contain.

 

When I google this i get several lawyers specifically advertising to prepare these. I doubt it could cost that much...and since it needs to be in Thai, worth being sure it is done properly.

[Speedo1968]

Yes, a difficult subject to discuss and ask about and thank you for posting.

The "What if ?" question often gets left for others to decide and it takes courage and boldness to ask yourself and those around you.

I felt that once I had asked myself the question it was easier to communicate with those around me and, it helped a lot to calm down and ease the fear of "What do I do, what do I do ?" 

I made out a DNR in 2012 following a close-call.

Making it a stand-alone document is an excellent idea, my document is the same.

 

I had acute and allergic bronchitis which could not be treated with antibiotics, they were unable to insert a breathing tube and my body was already shutting down.   It was also later determined that I had suffered my first two TIA's.  The doctors had stated they were unable to offer anything else.   A friend was with me discussed an option with the doctors and it was agreed, if I was in agreement they would try.     During a period when I was conscious the friend explained to me what she would like to do and I agreed.  The treatment worked.   ( I have since found that I am allergic to any antibiotics ( as well as multiple other medications ) I have been given.     I now self treat successfully any infection that would normally require antibiotic use, using a natural product ).     As I live alone I have self treated every TIA attack since including once when I was unable to breathe.   I would of course not recommend to others as each person is different.

After 4 years of multiple TIA's ( affecting the left side ) I have now had 3 mild strokes affecting the right side.    I still "go with the flow" and self treat as I live alone and no longer have one I can call in confidence that they will be available.     NB I was hospitalised twice when in the UK after having a TIA, never never again will I call out a UK hospital following my experience in the UK.     Here I live 3km from a local hospital but 45 from KK. The treatment in my hospital at KK was excellent !!!

 

Since 2012 I now always carry on me the DNR form, full current and past medical details / TIA details / hospital card details / NoK and British Consul details in a small plastic folder, they are also posted clearly in my house and the hospital / s I have attended also have the same information.

There are a number of good forms available online, it is the content / text that is important not so much when the form was introduced or updated.

Not sure where you originate from but the US and UK etc have different formats.

You can always download a basic outline and re-write it to suit your purposes.

Perhaps there is no guarantee that such a form would be accepted in Thailand, you would be best to seek legal advice if you find that the answers you are given by the medical profession here do not meet your wishes.    

 

I have already discussed my DNR fully with and given a copy to my children in the UK.    One of my daughters flew to my bedside in 2012 and said that she would never want to see what she saw again.

The will for my estate ( such as it is ) is completely separate.    It is also an open will as are my funeral requirements.   

 

I discussed with my hospital doctor / specialist, the same one who attended me in 2012, he agreed that should he attend me ( NB 'should he" ) at the time then he would be in agreement.     Of course other doctors would probably have different ideas based on religion rather than ethics or your request, this is perhaps the biggest sticking point.

 

I would suggest that you first discuss fully with the hospital you normally attend including your doctor / specialist.

Perhaps also, if you are likely to be ambulanced to a local hospital first, where they may insist on resus treatment before moving you on, talk with them.

Contact your embassy to ask what is their position.   What is their understanding of the Thai legal system on this matter, especially when it relates to a foreign national ?

I assume your wife is in full agreement from all standpoints, it would be good, if not already done, for your wife to discuss with you at her side with the hospital and your doctor, in English.

What if something happened at home and the medics decided on resus there ?

What happens if the doctors, for any reason disagree at a particular point when you are ready or if they even refuse ?    

The DNR form may have your signature but when the time comes you still need a doctors signature.    This may also be true of such a form when you are allowing your partner the right to request that life support is not given or in a case where the hospital already given resus that it is turned off.

 

Perhaps you have already done / considered most of the above.

 

Should you wish for a copy of the form I have used please let me know and I will gladly message to you.

Take care

Speedo 1968

 

 

 

[Jack Mountain]

@Speedo 1968

>I now self treat successfully any infection that would normally require antibiotic use, using a >natural product 

 

Off topic, but may i ask which natural product you are using as anti-biotic?

 

[Speedo1968]

17 hours ago, Jack Mountain said:

@Speedo 1968

>I now self treat successfully any infection that would normally require antibiotic use, using a >natural product 

 

Off topic, but may i ask which natural product you are using as anti-biotic?

 

I can tell you but it is seen as quackery by this web site ( and will be blocked ), just as acupuncture used to be.   It is also as old as acupuncture.    And No, it is not a religious faith as  I follow no faith.   It is a 100% natural product and not a mixture of herbs and honey etc.   May I send you the name as a message from which point if you are interested further then I can message you more details ?

[Jack Mountain]

Just now, Speedo1968 said:

I can tell you but it is seen as quackery by this web site ( and will be blocked ), just as acupuncture used to be.   It is also as old as acupuncture.    And No, it is not a religious faith as  I follow no faith.   It is a 100% natural product and not a mixture of herbs and honey etc.   May I send you the name as a message from which point if you are interested further then I can message you more details ?

Yes pls, i am always interested in alternatives, specially when the known anti-biotics seems to lose it from resistent bacteria in the near future.