Credit vs debit card

[lkn]

I have a Krungthai VISA/debit card that I got on a tourist visa.

 

I have enabled online use so I can pay for iCloud storage, Netflix, refill my dtac balance, buy plane tickets, and of course I use it “offline” to pay for groceries at the supermarket, stuff at the various malls, etc.

 

 

I have always wondered why there are so many threads about people who complain about how difficult it is for foreigners to get a credit card in Thailand when a debit card seems to work perfectly well, or is it actually the credit they need?

 

But maybe I got a bit of a clue today, where I wanted to pay for a purchase at Index Living Mall (6,990 baht) yet the cashier told me that they no longer accept debit cards, apparently a new policy enforced in all their branches, but they told me that if I had a credit card, I could use that.

 

I’m baffled by this new policy. Based on the threads here, I assume most foreigners in Thailand use debit cards like me, so why make it harder for us to pay? If I have to pay everything in cash now, I may think twice about shopping there. And if I pay with credit card, doesn’t Index Living Mall actually have to pay a higher payment processing fee? Plus the fraud issue (I am not sure you can issue a chargeback for a debit card purchase, but you can when using a credit card).

 

So I guess my main questions is: Why are people so interested in getting credit cards?

 

But sort of related question: Is it common for stores to explicitly deny VISA/debit cards and only accept credit cards? What would the point of such policy be?

 

Perhaps a third question: Has anyone else experienced having their debit card rejected at Index Living Mall? I’m sort to tempted to go back in a week to see if they will still decline my card, or maybe try their online shop, to see if the policy also applies here.

[Pib]

Because credit cards are more widely accepted online and at stores worldwide.  Just more issues with debit cards versus credit cards that can bite sellers (i.e., results in non-payment to them).   You will find that some airlines and rent-a-car companies (just for example) will not accept debit cards...they only accept credit cards.

 

Plus credit cards generally provide cash back/rewards where debit cards generally do not.  And, if needing to, you can buy something now you don't have enough money to pay cash for.  Yes, you may incur some interest depending on how fast you can pay it off.  There is also more consumer protection with credit cards over debit cards.

 

Take a look at below web site for some pros of credit cards over debit cards.

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/10-places-not-to-use-debit-card-1271.php

Edited November 3, 2016 by Pib

[Jackie66]

There are several advantages to me but  biggest advantage for me personally is safety and that money is not taken directly from my account and i can contest it easier.

 

Example: Several years ago somehow my American express card info was used to incur a charge of over 10000 Euro somewhere in Japan and i have never even been in Japan.

So if it was a debit card i would be out 10000 Euros of my personal money in my account and i would have to fight to get it back but since it was an American express credit card  they handled everything and i never had to lose any of my own money or time dealing with the issue.

[grumbleweed]

11 hours ago, lkn said:

, I assume most foreigners in Thailand use debit cards like me, so why make it harder for us to pay?

TIT why allow a simple process when a much more complex method can be used.

 

 I would suspect the banks at play here, with the intention of getting the Thais hooked up with credit or making it easier for the stores to get them to spend money they don't have

 

I have a B 1st account specifically for online purchases,. Top up when needed. And being as I make Scrooge look benevolent, a great way of avoiding impulse purchases

 

From a security perspective I would rather suffer the inconvenience of making a cash withdrawal before a purchase than risk gifting them access to my line of credit

[SaintLouisBlues]

I'm waiting for Apple Pay and Android Pay to reach Thailand. I never take my card with me when I'm out shopping at home (in the States) or any other country that takes Apple Pay. The phone stores a "token", not my credit or debit card itself, and the token can only be activated by my fingerprint or the phone's passcode. Hell, I even transferred some money from my bank account to Transferwise the other day, all on my phone using Apple Pay and the Transferwise App

[Emster23]

Just to add a bit to the mix. The SCB bank at Huamark mall wouldn't take my VISA debit card over the counter for a cash withdrawl, told me to use the ATM just outside (WTH?). I've used it before no problem in Jomtien. As debit cards need that approval "ding" back, I don't see how that could lead to later collection problems with banks or stores: if payment approved, seems payment approved...

[Pib]

They simply get more fee-wise from an ATM withdrawal than a counter withdrawal (cash advance) due to the additive 200 Baht ATM user fee.

[arithai12]

3 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I'm waiting for Apple Pay and Android Pay to reach Thailand. I never take my card with me when I'm out shopping at home (in the States) or any other country that takes Apple Pay. The phone stores a "token", not my credit or debit card itself, and the token can only be activated by my fingerprint or the phone's passcode. Hell, I even transferred some money from my bank account to Transferwise the other day, all on my phone using Apple Pay and the Transferwise App

Wow, after inventing music files and tablets, now Apple has invented also online banking.

 

So, all that a thief needs to become rich with your money now is your phone and a piece of your finger. That's much better than that poor spanish guy who got cut up in pieces and thrown in the river.

[Strange]

I think a lot of merchants here do not realize that you can run a (at least a USA based) debit card as a credit card. They see the card says 'debit' on it and assume it can't be used/charged as credit. 

 

3 hours ago, Jackie66 said:

So if it was a debit card i would be out 10000 Euros of my personal money in my account and i would have to fight to get it back but since it was an American express credit card  they handled everything and i never had to lose any of my own money or time dealing with the issue.

 

This has happened several times with my debit/credit card from the USA (Citibank) and I always instantly got the cash back. 

 

15 hours ago, lkn said:

Has anyone else experienced having their debit card rejected at Index Living Mall? I’m sort to tempted to go back in a week to see if they will still decline my card, or maybe try their online shop, to see if the policy also applies here.

 

Honestly sounds like they don't know you can run a debit card as a credit card. 

 

Its interesting to see there are ALOT of Thai people that have like a Bangkok Bank ATM card, and think the only thing you can do with it is get money from an ATM when in fact you can run it as a credit card and sign at a lot of merchants. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

27 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

So, all that a thief needs to become rich with your money now is your phone and a piece of your finger. That's much better than that poor spanish guy who got cut up in pieces and thrown in the river.

https://www.engadget.com/2013/09/16/why-a-disembodied-finger-cant-be-used-to-unlock-the-touch-id-se/

[Strange]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

You will find that some airlines and rent-a-car companies (just for example) will not accept debit cards...they only accept credit cards.

 

I use my Citibank Debit card almost exclusively for everything and never had a problem with rent-a-car or airlines at all. Even they put a 'hold' on funds for the security deposit on a car and I get it back instantly when returned. 

 

 I guess I'm not real sure where the line is drawn as when you use your debit card and have to 'sign' its run as 'credit' anyhow. 

[sead]

Think you forgot to raise card limit per day or week.  You can do that on Atm easily. It's easier to tell you not working :)

Edited November 4, 2016 by sead

[lkn]

1 hour ago, sead said:

Think you forgot to raise card limit per day or week.  You can do that on Atm easily. It's easier to tell you not working :)

 

I’ve been using this card for several years and made many purchases over 20,000 baht and at least one purchase of 100,000 baht.

 

The lady told me she swiped my card multiple times, but it kept rejecting it. The next clerk simply refused to accept it (I had to try again) and told me that they do not accept debit cards. I said it was a debit *VISA* card and that I had used it in Index Living Mall a week ago, to which she replied it was a new policy for all their branches (to not accept debit cards).

 

It’s ironic because in the past, I’ve had a few shops initially reject my card saying they do not accept credit cards (presumably due to the fees), to which I point out it’s a Thai VISA *debit* card, and then they accept it.

 

As for limitations of debit cards (wrt. airline tickets and car rentals), I have also been using a VISA debit card from my home country for all of my adult life, and never have I run into any issues. I think most European countries do VISA/debit cards as standard, and it’s not uncommon to get bank credit, e.g. you are allowed to overdraw your account by some amount, though still using a debit card linked directly to your account (so you could also go to your bank and take out more money than you have in your account, but of course you’ll be charged interests, I think credit cards give you one month of interest free credit, but I have never had one, so mostly guesswork).

 

[JimGant]

Quote

that I had used it in Index Living Mall a week ago, to which she replied it was a new policy for all their branches (to not accept debit cards).

 

Standard bs -- when a Thai clerk doesn't know what's what, she'll invent a reason so as not to sound ignorant. Maddening to never get a "I don't know."

 

Your card was rejected, probably for some isolated reason germaine solely to your card (did you recently get a new chipped card? -- that has caused me problems at certain locations, and I had to ask for a replacement chipped card). Index Mall would be committing suicide to no longer accept debit cards, as for most Thais, this is the primary form of plastic. Unless, there is now a rash of fraudulent debit card transactions.......but, then, we'd expect to see a crackdown by other merchants.

[JimGant]

Quote

Honestly sounds like they don't know you can run a debit card as a credit card. 

Its interesting to see there are ALOT of Thai people that have like a Bangkok Bank ATM card, and think the only thing you can do with it is get money from an ATM when in fact you can run it as a credit card and sign at a lot of merchants. 

 

Actually, all POS transactions in Thailand revert to the "credit card mode" when using a debit/ATM card (i.e., swipe and sign, goes down a different comm pipe, is batch processed, and costs the merchant additional interchange fees over a debit card transaction, whereby a PIN is entered, the transaction is real time (same as an ATM transaction), and the merchant saves on interchange fees. (Have you ever stood in line here in Thailand, and have seen someone enter a PIN for there POS transaction? Nope, it's all swipe (or, now, insert) and sign. Credit card mode for all those debit cards here in Thailand.

It is possible, I guess, that a debit card used in the swipe and sign (credit) mode, because it is not a real time (but batch) transaction, could reach an empty bank account when finally processed. Have never heard of such a problem, however. Thus, seriously doubt Index Mall is reacting to such a problem.

[elgenon]

We know you can use an American based card, I think the OP was talking about a Thai issued card.

[jerojero]

Yes, it's the credit they need. Hence wanting CREDIT card.

[lkn]

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

Standard bs -- when a Thai clerk doesn't know what's what, she'll invent a reason so as not to sound ignorant. Maddening to never get a "I don't know."

 

To elaborate on the incident:

 

First clerk told me she swiped my card multiple times, and it was rejected, she did not know why, but said there had been issues because of a new system. I did not fully understand her, but this seemed to be the gist of it (I tried to ask about whether it was just issues today, or for a long time, she seemed to indicate for more than just today, but I was not sure she fully understood me).

 

Then a second clerk, who did not witness this incident (separate floor), simply took a look at my card when I handed it to her, and told me “no debit cards”, this was the clerk who then said it was a new company-wide policy (to only accept credit cards).

 

So I do not think this was “standard BS”.

[JimGant]

Quote

First clerk told me she swiped my card multiple times, and it was rejected, she did not know why, but said there had been issues because of a new system.

 

Does your debit card have a chip? If so, swiping such a card should broadcast an alert about inserting, not swiping. However, if the warning is not programmed in, the machine, knowing it's a chipped card, just refuses the swipe -- without any warning. Anyway, Thai credit cards have had chips for some time, so merchants are familiar with inserting them. But debit cards in Thailand (like in the US) have been the last to get chips. So, maybe merchants are still automatically swiping debit cards, as they're not expecting a chipped card.

 

Anyway, wild conjecture, especially if your card is not chipped......? However, the risk to a merchant of accepting a debit card should be no greater than that of accepting a credit card, especially when used in the no-signature-required, real time credit mode. Can't imagine Index substantially reducing its customer base by denying debit cards........

Quote

I’m sort to tempted to go back in a week to see if they will still decline my card,

 

Yes, please. This situation is really curious.

[lkn]

It’s not a chipped card (so only option is to swipe it).

[JimGant]

Ok, so much for that theory. And, only at Index has the swiping failed, i.e., your card is not at fault? If so, Index has a weird business plan, if that second clerk is to be believed.

[lkn]

I have never had an issue with the card before or after this incident, so yes, Index Living Mall, if the clerk is to be believed, has introduced a very strange policy, which at best will keep their current revenue, but at worst, decrease it and inconvenience their customers unnecessarily.

 

That is why I started this thread, because I just can’t see the reason for such policy, and while I know many will say not to question “Thai logic”, a place like Index Living Mall is not your typical Thai street cart run by people with moderate education (who thus might be more prone to shortsighted business decisions).

[Naam]

2 hours ago, lkn said:

Then a second clerk, who did not witness this incident (separate floor), simply took a look at my card when I handed it to her, and told me “no debit cards”, this was the clerk who then said it was a new company-wide policy (to only accept credit cards).

 

So I do not think this was “standard BS”.

correct! i was wondering why my wife paid cash THB 3,250 in Index Living Mall about two weeks ago. she was told "debit card can not!"

[Josasp]

I've noticed a couple of times the last year that places that used to accept all cards now only take credit cards.

Haven't really bothered me, and haven't thought about it since I always used to carry my foreign credit card.

Since it expired a couple of months ago, I stopped carrying it.

Just the other day I had to have my firend pay with a thai credit card at some restaurant at Cental, because they stopped accepting debit cards.

Last time I remember was MK Restaurants, they didn't accept debit either.

 

Now looking into getting a Thai credit card, it's a lot of paperwork as usual, but I don't think it's impossible.

Some banks just blatently deny it and say it's impossible everywhere for foreigner, as usual this is Thailand and nobody know anything.

Looking into Citibank at the moment, great bonuses on their cards.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Josasp

[HampiK]

I think Citibank is more difficult to become one than Kasikorn.

I have my Kasikorn Kredit card since about 5 years... I became it even with a 30 days excempt stamp in my passport.

 

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, Josasp said:

Just the other day I had to have my firend pay with a thai credit card at some restaurant at Cental, because they stopped accepting debit cards.

Last time I remember was MK Restaurants, they didn't accept debit either.

 

Santa Fe restaurants no longer accept debit cards either....Cash and Credit Cards Only with a Bt400 minimum for credit card use..   And they have a sign setting right in front of the checkout saying such (or at least the two Santa Fe restaurants I've used in two different Lotus malls said Sorry Charile, debit cards not accepted).   I always pay with a credit card and they gladly accept it.