Yingluck in tears over Bt35-bn civil damages

[Yann55]

Well, at least her tears are certainly sincere, this time ...

[AlQaholic]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Her fault is not putting the rice program in the national budget acknowledging it cost money but keeping it cost neutral off books. Even the world bank and others told her it was going to cost money, people came out with figures (and where threatened by her government). She never said it cost money never put it in the national budget (that would have ment scrapping other vote buying promises). I would only have found it a stupid scheme had it been in the books (and a legal one). But by keeping it off books as not to have a too large deficit forcing her to cut other stuff to keep popular she made it illegal. 

I think I was trying to make the point that she was surrounded by bad advice at the time when she didn't need the scheme to win the election. After the collapse of the scheme one week after the election, what was she supposed to do? Her cadre of bullshit idiots surrounding her kept her well miss-informed about the books.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, oldrunner said:

I am a guest in Thailand. It's internal political and/or criminal reporting is none of

my business. The above writers seem to force themselves into things that belong to the Thai government and it's leaders. If the above writers have so much to say about the goings  on in Thailand perhaps they might take a look at the goings on in the USA that involves some of it's highest ranking "citizens".

why comment if its none of your business.. it would be a dull forum. 

 

[robblok]

Just now, AlQaholic said:

I think I was trying to make the point that she was surrounded by bad advice at the time when she didn't need the scheme to win the election. After the collapse of the scheme one week after the election, what was she supposed to do? Her cadre of bullshit idiots surrounding her kept her well miss-informed about the books.

 

That is a bad point.. because once she saw she was losing money she should have put it in the general budget and scrapped policies to make it fiscal feasible. That is what she did wrong.. advice or no advice once you know the cost of something you have to put it in the budget hiding it is a crime. This was not a little bit of money that was lost.. its the size of the annual health budget. (just criminal negligence) You said they kept her misinformed.. she appointed the avisors.. she chaired the program.. who do you think is responsible.. if you take something on that you can't do because of lack of intelligence you can't say sorry.. you have to accept the responsibility. 

 

That she would have won anyway is debatable.. cutting the rice program would have made her really impopulair.. remember what happened when she tried. 

[Thailand]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nope.. id welcome a democratic government if you can find one. But as long as there are non and they are all self serving i prefer to have the mob in that i dislike the least. 

 

I get tired of the reds calling their government democratic because it was voted in.. that is just 1 small part of a democracy.. the other parts they never fulfill. 

And one the many small parts of democracy that the current ptb chose to ignore.

 

The Shins, certainly don't think we have seen the last of them,or at least their associates. Still hugely popular and probably gaining ground in those stakes as the blind stumbling continues to haunt the country.

[jayboy]

 
Typical red reply, I was voted in so I can do what I want. Democracy is more then voting, its keeping to rules and regulations. Its not about a off budget scheme that cost the same as the health budget for a year (off books I repeat off books) When confronted that it cost money they lied about it.. she chaired the program, hid the cost and lied about storage. 
 
Face it Thailand has no real democracy, because just voting is not democracy.. its part of

Except I didn't say that democracy was just about voting.I simply pointed out that Yingluck had a mandate from the Thai people.If that in your weird universe is a typical red reply, so be it.

Nobody argued that the rice price support policy was well conceived or executed - although the current government is doing something fairly similar.In both cases the objectives are the same - to help the disadvantaged.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

And one the many small parts of democracy that the current ptb chose to ignore.

 

The Shins, certainly don't think we have seen the last of them,or at least their associates. Still hugely popular and probably gaining ground in those stakes as the blind stumbling continues to haunt the country.

There are enough measures in place to control them now. They will have to play by the rules or lose it all again. They don't have the movement space to mess it all up. 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Except I didn't say that democracy was just about voting.I simply pointed out that Yingluck had a mandate from the Thai people.If that in your weird universe is a typical red reply, so be it.

Nobody argued that the rice price support policy was well conceived or executed - although the current government is doing something fairly similar.In both cases the objectives are the same - to help the disadvantaged.
 

 

Its not about how it is done.. its if its put in the central budget or not.. and if its fiscal sound.. keeping 500billion in costs off books is not done. You take cost into account the moment they are apparent. That is one of the first rules of accounting. If she had kept it in the central budget and not off books I would not have attacked it because it would have been stupid.. but legal.. keeping things off books denying it cost money and then finding out they lost 500billion is criminal. 

 

I am not a supporter of the way the junta is handeling the rice program. Farmers should just quit .. they keep losing money why should normal tax payers keep paying for something that does not work. They are just subsidizing them without any real changes being made. This is just stupid, if a company can't make money it quits.. but somehow farmers are different.. probably because its a violent bunch. 

 

I am not against helping farmers.. but help to change.. or stop.. this does not work we seen it over many years. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by robblok

[smutcakes]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

of the way the junta is handeling the rice program. Farmers should just quit .. they keep losing money why should normal tax payers keep paying for something that does not work. They are just subsidizing them without any real changes being made. This is just stupid, if a company can't make money it quits.. but somehow farmers are different.. probably because its a violent bunch. 

 

I am not against helping farmers.. but help to change.. or stop.. this does not work we seen it over many years. 

 

If the farmers just quit, what do you suppose  the 20+ million people are going to do for a living?

 

You must be getting dizzy with all the spinning, ducking and diving you are having to do to try and find ways to jusitfy the current goings on.

 

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

If the farmers just quit, what do you suppose  the 20+ million people are going to do for a living?

 

You must be getting dizzy with all the spinning, ducking and diving you are having to do to try and find ways to jusitfy the current goings on.

 

 

I don't need to justify anything.. i am looking at it economically.

 

If you constantly made a loss from what you were doing would you keep doing it again.

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (Einstein)
 

 

Nobody gets welfare in Thailand.. only the militant farmers do.. normal people who lose their job are not helped... why.. because farmers are militant and violent.

Edited November 4, 2016 by robblok

[exalll]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

 

Ridiculous post though whether through stupidity or dishonesty is difficult to say.Possibly both.

 

1.Not even a reasonable argument this is justice.Rather an arbitrary politicised move.

 

2.She was leader of a party which easily won a democratic election by the people of Thailand.

 

3.Your description of the rice price support policy is not only a lie but a silly one too - because such childish nonsense.

 

4.The peasantry is a declining proportion of Thai society.Without much broader support the PTP could never win.Yingluck remains even now the most popular politician in the country.

 

No. 2 is wrong!  It should read "She was leader of a party which easily won an election by the people of Thailand"

[Tracyb]

Boo frigging Hoo

[smutcakes]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I don't need to justify anything.. i am looking at it economically.

 

If you constantly made a loss from what you were doing would you keep doing it again.

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (Einstein)
 

 

Nobody gets welfare in Thailand.. only the militant farmers do.. normal people who lose their job are not helped... why.. because farmers are militant and violent.

 

So in a country where there is no welfare state, what do you suggest the millions of people do? Do you not think they should get something back from taxes?

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

 

So in a country where there is no welfare state, what do you suggest the millions of people do? Do you not think they should get something back from taxes?

 

What taxes did those farmers ever paid (VAT only).

 

What they should do.. not farming.. or better farming.. doing the same over and over again is just stupid. Without any meaningful change (cooperatives, going for difference rice strains, selling directly to consumers, going biological) this will go on forever. Maybe sell of their land and work as workers for the large rice farms that do make a profit. 

 

This does not work and has to change.

 

And no there is no welfare here.. but farmers seem to get it but the guy losing his job from a factory does not.. seems fair to you ? Talk about justifying stuff. 

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

What taxes did those farmers ever paid (VAT only).

 

What they should do.. not farming.. or better farming.. doing the same over and over again is just stupid. Without any meaningful change (cooperatives, going for difference rice strains, selling directly to consumers, going biological) this will go on forever. Maybe sell of their land and work as workers for the large rice farms that do make a profit. 

 

This does not work and has to change.

 

And no there is no welfare here.. but farmers seem to get it but the guy losing his job from a factory does not.. seems fair to you ? Talk about justifying stuff. 

 

You are aware that a vast amount of the service, manafacturing sectors  throughout the whole of Thailand is made up of the children, grandchildren,, great grandchildren of rice farmers?? You are aware they pay tax, the businesses they work in pay tax, the products they produce are taxed??

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

 

You are aware that a vast amount of the service, manafacturing sectors  throughout the whole of Thailand is made up of the children, grandchildren,, great grandchildren of rice farmers?? You are aware they pay tax, the businesses they work in pay tax, the products they produce are taxed??

 

 

We were talking about the rice farmers themselves.. not about all the other sectors.. these do pay tax.

 

But your carefully avoiding the topic... why do others have to change and adapt then they lose their job but farmers don't. Now as long as they keep getting bailed out they will never change and nothing will ever change. 

 

As i said.. they should try new production methods... change who they sell too, go without fertilizers. Why are there farmers that can make it.. because they change and adapt. I seen plenty of articles about project that cut down on fertilizer and do make money. Thing is these farmers wont change until they are forced to change and they wont be forced as long as they bail out.

 

Why do cooperatives work in other places but not here.. the farmers just don't want to change or adapt. 

 

I gave a nice quote from Einstein.. totally ignored by you.. but that is what is happening.. the farmers dont change make a loss year after year and do the same all over again and expect different results. 

[JAG]

There are enough measures in place to control them now. They will have to play by the rules or lose it all again. They don't have the movement space to mess it all up. 

Ah, but whose rules?

And of course the answer is the rules of the unelected privileged establishment, in fact the very establishment which the electorate has repeatedly rejected.

Fail to abide by (their interpretation) of those rules (in effect their wishes and demands) and oh dear, we have an "unusual political situation" which can only be resolved by appointing an outside Prime Minister.

By no stretch of the most fevered imagination could that be called democratic.

[nomadicjunkie]

3 hours ago, z42 said:

Disgusting. Playing the victim. She definitely isn't in this case ?

Plays it to the max!!!!!!!!!!  boo hoo hoo

[Ratcher]

How the mighty have fallen. Ask yourself how this family got their wealth in the first place. By fair means or foul?

[robblok]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

 

Ah, but whose rules?

And of course the answer is the rules of the unelected privileged establishment, in fact the very establishment which the electorate has repeatedly rejected.

Fail to abide by (their interpretation) of those rules (in effect their wishes and demands) and oh dear, we have an "unusual political situation" which can only be resolved by a pointing an outside Prime Minister.

By no stretch of the most fevered imagination could that be called democratic.

 

 

They brought it upon themselves.. had they been real democratic and played by the democratic rules this all would not have happened. But unfortunately this is needed here. And your right it could open the way for the junta to come back. So the PTP better behave or they are out again. 

 

Your right.. those rules are not democratic.. but the PTP never acted democratic (only the voting part) so why moan that they get subjected to non democratic rules. 

 

Anyway, with some luck this means the end for the PTP and the country can move away from the Shins and live in peace without bombings and attacks if something happens they dont like.. threatening judgets.. bribing judges.. anyone want some cake... was that democratic JAG.. bribing judges ?.. was it democratic.. to give out addresses of judges that did not do as the PTP wanted ?

 

So you want the PTP treated democratic  while they don't act democratic themselves.........

[Kiwiken]

Don't worry she won't pay a penny. She will back in Govt within 5 years. You can build breakwaters but you cannot stop the tides of change. 

[monkey4u]

The guy in the photo looks like he's crying after being screwed over the price of his rice

[smutcakes]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

We were talking about the rice farmers themselves.. not about all the other sectors.. these do pay tax.

 

But your carefully avoiding the topic... why do others have to change and adapt then they lose their job but farmers don't. Now as long as they keep getting bailed out they will never change and nothing will ever change. 

 

As i said.. they should try new production methods... change who they sell too, go without fertilizers. Why are there farmers that can make it.. because they change and adapt. I seen plenty of articles about project that cut down on fertilizer and do make money. Thing is these farmers wont change until they are forced to change and they wont be forced as long as they bail out.

 

Why do cooperatives work in other places but not here.. the farmers just don't want to change or adapt. 

 

I gave a nice quote from Einstein.. totally ignored by you.. but that is what is happening.. the farmers dont change make a loss year after year and do the same all over again and expect different results. 

 

Its stupid doing the same thing over and over again... 19 times and counting for the coups. Seems they should of learned long before PTP that they dont work. Who are the  stupid ones again?

 

Governments, military and civiian have given handouts for decades? They dont work? Who are the stupid ones?

 

 

 

 

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

 

The Shins not as bad 

 

I would be loved too if i overspend government money. The Shins are done. 

Says you.  The country will probably be handed to them over time given mismanagement and lack leadership.  Please tell us the alternatives.  Sadly, what improvements needed to the courts and other institutions will probably never happen.

[timewilltell]

I don't have much sympathy for Yingluck but then the current regime are proposing, actually implementing a scheme that is essentially not much different. again paying above market prices and doing nothing to solve the fundamental problems of  the poor farmer.

 

Anyone who wants to help these people needs to think out a longer term plan.  provide competition to the middlemen, warehousemen and millers through either price control or better by providing an alternative through the same services provided by a government sponsored scheme with limited profits or perhaps both. yes there are pitfalls but the general idea to stop price gouging. 

 

There should also be used scheme to offer government land for rent which I think maybe already exists but at the same time control the level of rent chargeable by private landlords with significant penalties for overcharging. 

 

Next tackle money lenders and have them ostracised by society instead of supported in every way possible by he courts and justice system.

 

Next provide education programs to give alternative crop ideas and support to farmers to be more adaptable at the same time as a ompkete overhaul of thd education system so that the kids end up with a much higher level of competence than the current generation.

 

If you just carry on subsidising then you make no progress and yet that is the continual answer by politicians and leaders who seem to be devoid of much sense.

[scorecard]

57 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

So in a country where there is no welfare state, what do you suggest the millions of people do? Do you not think they should get something back from taxes?

 

 

Are they paying taxes?

[FitnessHealthTravel]

Yeah the bulk of my 35 billion is kept off shore too...I just can't remember where! Phew!!!

[smutcakes]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

 

Are they paying taxes?

 

I am not sure, i am sure some do directly or indirectly, some dont.  Children, grandchildren certainly do working in factories, service industry throughout the country, without which there would be no tax a all. In your country do people get support, jobs seekers allowance, health care, are the unemployed not allowed to benefit from those services as they dont pay taxes?

What about all the retired expats in Thailand? they dont pay taxes yet they benefit from services. Should they all be prevented from using services paid for by tax payers?

Edited November 4, 2016 by smutcakes

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

Its stupid doing the same thing over and over again... 19 times and counting for the coups. Seems they should of learned long before PTP that they dont work. Who are the  stupid ones again?

 

Governments, military and civiian have given handouts for decades? They dont work? Who are the stupid ones?

 

 

 

 

Again avoiding what i said.. nothing new there.. going from the rice program to coups... 

 

Maybe its democracy that does not work here and the coups to set it right.. ever thought of that one  

 

But you seem to avoid what i said about farming not working and the need to change maybe because I am right and I know how much you hate that. 

[worgeordie]

"I have nothing left in Thailand,so cannot pay, but if you look in Panama

or the Cayman's you might find it,but from past experience,I know you

will not bother" 

regards worgeordie