University teaching shows why Thais' command of English is so abysmal!

[AgMech Cowboy]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

ya'll're not sure.

ya'll'rn't sure...

[Johnniey]

4 hours ago, aslimversgwm said:

Certainly in the building and ancillary trades here in Thailand and elsewhere - including the UK - they use Imperial measures such as inches and feet as well as Metric measurements, but please admit this is an anachronism as all of Europe, China, Russia, South America, Canada, Australia, NZ, Africa, the ME, the rest of SE Asia use the Metric system for both length, weight and volume.

Using Imperial measure when you threw off the Imperial yoke over 260 years ago is faintly laughable!

And whilst we're at it - why Fahrenheit when the rest of the world use Celsius? And why Month/Day/Year when the logical presentation is as per the rest of the world: Day/Month/Year!?

I'm not a Yank. The word "tyre" should have given this away.

[Johnniey]

49 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

By claiming it should "of course" be written like this and that, you're actually making the same mistake here that you're trying to point out: That transliterations without knowing the transliteration system can be pretty worthless and lead to incorrect pronounciation.

 

The only way how to definitely write these cities correctly is using ขอนแก่น and กาฬสินธุ์. Once you start using another alphabet, whether the Roman one, Kanji, or even funny icons like ♣️ and ♠️, you're using a transliteration, which can never be considered correct or incorrect in an absolute way, as it is a model/representation of an original/fact and therefore needs interpretation. Same like there exist plenty of different maps (aka models/representations) of the very same world (aka original) used for different purposes, you cannot, for example, declare a geological map of the world "incorrect" just because you might interpret it incorrectly as you only understand Google Maps. 

 

To stick to your example, transliterating those cities with "Kalasin" and "Khon Kaen" can be perfectly fine, should the transliteration system applied be commonly understood as using a "k" letter for a "ก" sound. On the other hand, using a "g" letter for transliterating a "ก" sound might equally lead to incorrect pronounciation when someone doesn't know how to read your transliteration system correctly, like for example an English speaking person applying a kind of "จ" for the "g" letter sound as in "Germany". And, believe me, there inevitably would be dozens of Farangs walking around saying they're living in ขอนแจน and จาฬสินธุ์ simply because they would not know how to use the transliteration system applied. 

 

I agree though that Thailand has a problem with transliteration because: 1.) there is no official transliteration system but dozens competing ones; and 2.) the most common ones (seen on street signs for example) use the same representation for a different original. 

 

Bottom line: A transliteration can never be considered correct or incorrect, it may be used correctly or incorrectly though. And: It's worth learning the Thai alphabet. 

Point taken, but remember that most foreigners in Khon Gaen or Galasin don't even know what transliteration is, let alone the difference between transliteration and transcription. 

Most will read Galasin as าฬสินธุ์, and definitely when they hear the locals saying it. 

I should have said it would be better written this way, not it should.

 

Anyone here think that Khon gaen is pronounced Khon Kaen, or Galasin pronounced Kalasin?

 

 

[Bule gila]

6 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

You seem confused between unofficial and official dialect.  Official dialects are versions of a language prescribed by a dictionary, as in British English, American English and Indian English.  All are common in their grammar and differ in their content words and so not necessarily mutually intelligible on all levels.  There is no standard version of English, there are several.  Understand now?

You are quite incredible and yet again wrong.

noun

1.

Linguistics. a variety of a language that is distinguished from other varieties of the same language by features of phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by a group of speakers who are set off from others geographically or socially.

2.

a provincial, rural, or socially distinct variety of a language that differs from the standard language, especially when considered as substandard.

3.

a special variety of a language:

The literary dialect is usually taken as the standard language.

4.

a language considered as one of a group that have a common ancestor:

[Bule gila]

Considering the number of English 'teachers' in Thailand, I'm amazed at many of the responses here and can only conclude that most of them don't have a clue what they are talking about [apart from Shawn0000 who is the sage, nay font of all knowledge]. This assertion is supported by the fact [see that Shawn? A fact] that salaries here have not increased for a decade. Standards have diminished - look at the tables - and Shawn is here.

Japan used to be the worst, due to the high grammar content in schools and lack of speaking practice. Thailand, however, has carried the mantle and is now in the relegation zone because ... I can't be bothered.

Ask Shawn he's always right.

[William C F Pierce]

13 hours ago, jpinx said:

There are so many versions of English (Spanish also) that it is hard to know where to set the standard, but there is no doubt that most Thai "English Teachers" are hard pressed to have a conversation in English with a native UK English speaker.

You can't blame a low standard of English teaching on Thais, when English newspaper journalists and editors have such a bad standard of English. Sone of the most basic rules of English are continuously ignored. Never ever start a sentence with the four words "because, so and but" and try to avoid using them twice in the same sentence. Always use "a" before a word starting with a consonant and "an" before a word starting with a vowel, except for an hour or an honour. The teaching of English is not at the level it should be in the UK. Bad English teaching bad English teaching Thais I am not surprised.

[Scott]

Some posts with foreign script have been removed.   Only English is allowed in this portion of the forum.  

 

 

[Living in a cartoon]

Rosetta Stone is the best way to learn any language.

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/rosetta-stone/n32023?snl=1

 

 

[TerrylSky]

It's unfortunate that it is so difficult for many qualified native English teachers to teach here, yet so many unqualified Thais are allowed to teach - if you can call it that. 

[Mosha]

My mate's ex to her class.

Don't listen to Farang, they don't understand English. After a British stepfather had helped his stepdaughter with a question in her homework. Which was a multi choice question with in fact no wrong answer.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[quandow]

16 hours ago, jpinx said:

There are so many versions of English (Spanish also) that it is hard to know where to set the standard, but there is no doubt that most Thai "English Teachers" are hard pressed to have a conversation in English with a native UK English speaker.

 

You really went there? I thought we saved this sort of things for bars amongst friends.

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, paulbj2 said:

I did say "hardly used", not never used. I wouldn't say that just BSP is wholesale adoption of the Imperial system of weights and measures worldwide, would you?

 

In Britain, miles are still used on road signage and where vehicle speeds are expressed MPH 

 

To say hardly used is far from reality. Technically, yes the metric system has become the universal standard in terms of accuracy and precision, but as far as practical usage goes, I think most people can far more quickly visualize twelve inches than thirty centimetres. Ditto miles vs kilometres, ounces, pounds and stones vs kilogrammes, pints vs millilitres, feet vs metres etc. Often nowadays there's an ability to think in both systems simultaneously, but a lot of the older expressions still pervade and dominate, while many older ones have dropped into obscurity. As long as an word is in common usage though, it should still be taught and explained as such.

[lamyai3]

13 hours ago, Gillyflower said:

Well as long as they don't say, as so many people on TV write.....would of....could of.....should of.  It is would HAVE, should HAVE etc.  There is an Admin who could take notice of that.

 

If you're thinking of who I'm thinking of, back off... he's worth his weight in gold. 

[Damrongsak]

13 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Are you an English person?

Are you English?

Are you an Englishman?

Are you from England?

Are your heritage from England by any means?

Do you stem from England perhaps?

Is England the Country from where you come?

Is England you country of origin?

Are you from that little Island just North of Europe?

Is it from England that you come?

Did you come from England?

Do you count England as your place of origin?

 

Naa, I'm a Mercan.  Where y'all from?  

[lamyai3]

7 hours ago, Hiyaall said:

Hahahah. As someone who has some command of grammar, I'm laughing at an article criticizing people for making english errors while making many grammar errors. I am not fan of grammar nazisim, but I still think it's funny. 

 

Maybe be if I ever retire to Thailand I can make extra cash editing this stuff. 

 

You're obviously not a fan of Nazism either as you didn't spellcheck it. Kudos! 

[ezrider62]

What about the students that have been passed every year until college level and don't know anything! I have witnessed this in my classrooms, five students are excellent and most are horrible. How did these terrible students ever pass to this level and get into my class? So now I have to teach at a very low level to have everybody on the same page. I have failed students and only to find out that their grades were later changed to pass!!

[pookiki]

6 hours ago, Johnniey said:

Point taken, but remember that most foreigners in Khon Gaen or Galasin don't even know what transliteration is, let alone the difference between transliteration and transcription. 

Most will read Galasin as าฬสินธุ์, and definitely when they hear the locals saying it. 

I should have said it would be better written this way, not it should.

 

Anyone here think that Khon gaen is pronounced Khon Kaen, or Galasin pronounced Kalasin?

 

 

There is no 'g' sound in Thai as you hear it.  There is an 'aspirated' k (kh) and an 'unaspirated' k (k). Very difficult for the western ear to hear and distinguish. Like the difference between 'chicken' and 'egg'.

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, Living in a cartoon said:

Rosetta Stone is the best way to learn any language.

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/rosetta-stone/n32023?snl=1

 

 

 

Rosetta Stone's competence regarding European languages is far away from their competence in Asian languages, within which they attempt to apply pretty much the same learning methods. Rosetta Stone Thai was one of the most expensive and least useful learning tools I've crossed paths with.

[Living in a cartoon]

25 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

 

Rosetta Stone's competence regarding European languages is far away from their competence in Asian languages, within which they attempt to apply pretty much the same learning methods. Rosetta Stone Thai was one of the most expensive and least useful learning tools I've crossed paths with.

Uh, it was a joke. Did you bother to open the link...

[Damrongsak]

37 minutes ago, pookiki said:

There is no 'g' sound in Thai as you hear it.  There is an 'aspirated' k (kh) and an 'unaspirated' k (k). Very difficult for the western ear to hear and distinguish. Like the difference between 'chicken' and 'egg'.

U nai Khon Kaen , crie kai kai guy? Loog nung, tao rai? :) 

 

My wife studied a wee bit of English in secondary school, but didn't speak any when we married.  After 38 years of living in the U.S., she picked up a good bit, even did a number of courses at a community college.  She recently wrote a home-spun philosophy book in English.  Part of the dedication reads:  "Since I'm not a native English speaker, I thank my husband ____  ____ for helping correct my spelling and grammar.  Although it has driven near divorce many times, we made it."   (I screwed up that edit ... :))

 

I was taught Thai using "The Silent Way" technique.  It was like 4-6 weeks of immersion.  Pretty amazing.  No translation, no memorization, just learning to think in and use a different language.  I still talk to myself in Thai, though my vocabulary is limited.  The downside is the time I vacationed in Mexico.  When my meager Spanish failed, I just filled in the blanks with Thai words. 

 

http://www.saudicaves.com/mx/spcourse/

[Loeilad]

5 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

You can't blame a low standard of English teaching on Thais, when English newspaper journalists and editors have such a bad standard of English. Sone of the most basic rules of English are continuously ignored. Never ever start a sentence with the four words "because, so and but" and try to avoid using them twice in the same sentence. Always use "a" before a word starting with a consonant and "an" before a word starting with a vowel, except for an hour or an honour. The teaching of English is not at the level it should be in the UK. Bad English teaching bad English teaching Thais I am not surprised.

"most basic rules of English are continuously ignored."

 

I always think that people who make comments like that don't really understand English

[Loeilad]

14 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Are you an English person?

Are you English?

Are you an Englishman?

Are you from England?

Are your heritage from England by any means?

Do you stem from England perhaps?

Is England the Country from where you come?

Is England you country of origin?

Are you from that little Island just North of Europe?

Is it from England that you come?

Did you come from England?

Do you count England as your place of origin?

 

"Are your heritage from England by any means?" - Really???

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, Living in a cartoon said:

Uh, it was a joke. Did you bother to open the link...

 

Apologies, no I glossed over the link. I do remember this sketch from a few years before, very funny - the authorities really got their knickers in a twist over it! 

[Estrada]

19 hours ago, djayz said:

Here we go again... if I had ฿ 1 for every time people pointed out the absymal level of English here, I'd be a millionaire by now! 

If the teachers haven't mastered the language, then how are they expected to teach their students?!?!

 

Teachers and professors who have their positions partially thanks to family connections and are never observed by neutral peers with the aim of improving standards. They have no motivation to improve themselves as teachers nor to help their students improve their (students) lot in life. The language center I work at observes all teachers once and sometimes twice a year and conducts regular student feedback surveys. All with the aim of 1) keeping teaching standards up and 2) to check student i.e. customer satisfaction with the teaching staff. 

This could easily be done at the public schools and universities. 

 

Based on your poor grammar and misspelling of the subject word "Abysmal" as "Absymal", I suggest you find a better English language school to teach you English. I hope that you are not an English Language Teacher as "If the teachers haven't mastered the language, then how are they expected to teach their students?!?!"

[Estrada]

13 hours ago, paulbj2 said:

 

I have never heard of Englander being used as a confession of nationality. "I am an Englander"? No, that has absolutely never been used in English to my knowledge.

 

Where do you come from "I'm a New Englander" for sure, or even "You are a Little Englander" an insult justifiably applied to Brexit voters but never: "I am an Englander".

 

As with people who hail from Scotland: "I'm Scots" or "I'm Scottish" but never "I'm Scotch"

It is from the German "Ich Bin ein Englander" = "I am an Englander"

[tominbkk]

18 hours ago, Charlie1 said:

I noticed that many Thais try to speak a not understandable "American English". They should be taught only by UK native speakers - the teachers, I mean.

I've known plenty of Native UK teachers that I can't even understand when they are speaking to me.  Americans as well.  What Thailand needs is competent English teachers period.  No need to get nationalistic about it (though I sense you are trolling so...).

[Prof3934]

I spent 7years teaching Business Communications to senior Thai management in an MBA Program at one of the leading universities only running MBA's, in Bangkok.

 

Most of the professors could speak English quite fluently, some in very strange grammar and structure. Almost none of them could write English. The deputy chief asked me to check a big report of his before it went to print.

 

it was riddled with grammar mistakes, structure errors, spelling mistakes and almost total lack of punctuation. 

 

I wrote the Business Communication course myself, and all four aspects were run in English. I was forced to reduce the content as so much time was spent on teaching them basic English.

 

it never improved over the 30 courses I ran.  I was almost made to pass nearly all of them each semester.

[rodney earl]

This is just another case of thais (who cannot speak english) teaching students who then cannot speak english. This is why thailand will never be an english

speaking country. They need native english speaking people to teach but that would make too much sense.!!

[Johnniey]

9 minutes ago, Prof3934 said:

I spent 7years teaching Business Communications to senior Thai management in an MBA Program at one of the leading universities only running MBA's, in Bangkok.

 

Usually Thai managers need an MBA to reach senior status.

 

I taught an MBA course at Naresuan Uni in Bangkok a few years ago.

[Johnniey]

1 hour ago, pookiki said:

There is no 'g' sound in Thai as you hear it.  There is an 'aspirated' k (kh) and an 'unaspirated' k (k). Very difficult for the western ear to hear and distinguish. Like the difference between 'chicken' and 'egg'.

This is somewhat debatable. You could say the same about Thai not having a "J" sound but for most intent and purposes it is best, IMHO to write G,J. 

How would you transcribe "gaw gai", using the international phonetic system?