School system’s failure to teach logical thinking linked to low PISA scores

[webfact]

School system’s failure to teach logical thinking linked to low PISA scores
By PRATCH RUJIVANAROM 
THE NATION

 

 

BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS HAVE called for a major reform in Thailand’s education system and blame students’ low scores in the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) on the system’s failure to encourage logical thinking.

 

Thailand Research Fund (TRF) discussed the bad performance at a press conference after research exposed problems in the current curriculum as well as considerable disparity driven by financial status. 

 

The 2015 PISA academic evaluation scores, disclosed earlier this month, showed the academic performance of Thai students was far behind their peers from neighbouring countries such as Singapore and Vietnam. Thai students only ranked 54th in science and maths and 57th in reading out of 70 countries. 

 

Pattamawadee Pochanukul, TRF deputy director and lecturer from Thammasat University’s Faculty of Economics, said research revealed that schools failed to foster critical thinking, analytical skills and logic among students. It also showed that financial disparity also affected students from developing these skills.

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30302058

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2016-12-14

 

[ezzra]

Unfortunately, and this is said without malice or ridicule to Thai people,

Thai people from all walks of whether be highly educated or not are

not configured to think logically and be able to solve problems,

30 years of dealing with the locals and I have learned not to expect them to

to come up with bright and lateral thinking.... but I still love Thailand and

the Thai people.....

[daveAustin]

Well, it is significant that kids are not encouraged to speak out in class... for fear of ridiculing the teacher/questioning a superior? etc. Teachers are also a little bit dim/egotistical. Address those issues or it will never change.

[Deli]

Don't blame the students, look at the teachers, parents and the whole educational system and you know why.

[upena]

All part of the plan to keep the people uneducated and in debt

[klauskunkel]

Quote

School system’s failure to teach logical thinking linked to low PISA scores

However, all is not lost since the academics have actually used logic to come to the above conclusion.

To quote Mr. Spock: "Fascinating."

[thhMan]

My 2 girls come back more stupid after a day at school.

 

I have slowly watched my girls 7 and 12 starting to lose their identity and accept "going with the flow"

 

I have given them the tools to improve themselves and even went so far as banning Thai TV, so they dont get the bad influences.
They have Netflix and the Internet to get their information, which helps a little, but does not have the same influences they get at school, which at school is superior in exemplifying stupidity and incompetence as the norm

 

My 12 year old has gone from wanting to be an Astronaut to now wanting to be a cook, as something at school has suddenly stolen her goals for something easier to achieve... I am guessing its peer pressure, from her friends who have low IQ parents and teachers who teach English, but are doing such a poor job at it, that my 12 year old cant read or write English and in fact, which she does know, is starting to be forgotten.

 

We have books for most ages in English, sent by my mom (in Australia), that are good reads and not just educational... But, as my kids can barely read English, they choose the Thai books....

 

Its getting to the point that I think its better to keep my kids at home than go to school and get more stupid... My wife (Thai), is starting to acknowledge what I have been saying about the education, as my girls are becoming less logical in their thinking as weeks roll on.....

They never ask, Why, How or When and are now adopting the "agree and pretend to know" attitude, which I dont let them get away with as its become more predominant (hence my wife realizing whats going on) and I then ask my girls why they dont just say "they dont know" and ask me the answer

 

If there is a thing as "reverse education", then that is what I am starting to believe schools here are about... Long gone are those inquisitive stares from my kids and now slowly being replaced by the same BLANK LOOKS, I see when at malls, take away shops, retail stores etc....

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by thhMan

[bobmac10]

It's the Thai culture.

Ruling class don't want the rest to be too clever, lest they wake up to the reality of how the country is being run.

[soalbundy]

38 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

However, all is not lost since the academics have actually used logic to come to the above conclusion.

To quote Mr. Spock: "Fascinating."

Yes, all theory and no boots

[thhMan]

4 minutes ago, bobmac10 said:

It's the Thai culture.

Ruling class don't want the rest to be too clever, lest they wake up to the reality of how the country is being run.

Are you suggesting they are any brighter????

Throw away those ridiculous conspiracy theories and perhaps you may see the issues as they really are

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, thhMan said:

My 2 girls come back more stupid after a day at school.

 

I have slowly watched my girls 7 and 12 starting to lose their identity and accept "going with the flow"

 

I have given them the tools to improve themselves and even went so far as banning Thai TV, so they dont get the bad influences.
They have Netflix and the Internet to get their information, which helps a little, but does not have the same influences they get at school, which at school is superior in exemplifying stupidity and incompetence as the norm

 

My 12 year old has gone from wanting to be an Astronaut to now wanting to be a cook, as something at school has suddenly stolen her goals for something easier to achieve... I am guessing its peer pressure, from her friends who have low IQ parents and teachers who teach English, but are doing such a poor job at it, that my 12 year old cant read or write English and in fact, which she does know, is starting to be forgotten.

 

We have books for most ages in English, sent by my mom (in Australia), that are good reads and not just educational... But, as my kids can barely read English, they choose the Thai books....

 

Its getting to the point that I think its better to keep my kids at home than go to school and get more stupid... My wife (Thai), is starting to acknowledge what I have been saying about the education, as my girls are becoming less logical in their thinking as weeks roll on.....

They never ask, Why, How or When and are now adopting the "agree and pretend to know" attitude, which I dont let them get away with as its become more predominant (hence my wife realizing whats going on) and I then ask my girls why they dont just say "they dont know" and ask me the answer

 

If there is a thing as "reverse education", then that is what I am starting to believe schools here are about... Long gone are those inquisitive stares from my kids and now slowly being replaced by the same BLANK LOOKS, I see when at malls, take away shops, retail stores etc....

 

Surely as an English speaking father it is your job to teach them to read English. I taught my son to read English but then had the difficulty that he didn't want to learn to read Thai, Thai being far more difficult. I have backed off with English lessons now and i am force feeding him Thai. He is now 9, when he first started school his teacher told me that he was far better at speaking English than Thai which wasn't advantages for a Thai child. I let him use the computer a lot, Youtube is magic for his English, he is past simple children's programs now and is into 'Slogoman' and 'minecraft' but now also looks at Thai programs, a lot of nature stuff but also translated Japanese cartoons so he gets a window on the world outside Thailand. I don't know how but he knows about 'Trump' and 'Brexit'. Many of the things he looks at concern American youths so he gets the street language as well, including <deleted> and blinding unfortunately but that also belongs to the English language. I just let him choose what he wants but look in now and again and make him change stuff if i don't think that what he is watching is appropriate,ie. too much swearing etc.

[Sydebolle]

"encourage logical thinking" - not in a lifetime here in Thailand! 

[kotsak]

The current education system serves one purpose, to produce serfs.. 

[gandhi]

Thats why my kids are going to an international school.

Not cheap but worth every baht.

[thhMan]

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Surely as an English speaking father it is your job to teach them to read English. I taught my son to read English but then had the difficulty that he didn't want to learn to read Thai, Thai being far more difficult. I have backed off with English lessons now and i am force feeding him Thai. He is now 9, when he first started school his teacher told me that he was far better at speaking English than Thai which wasn't advantages for a Thai child. I let him use the computer a lot, Youtube is magic for his English, he is past simple children's programs now and is into 'Slogoman' and 'minecraft' but now also looks at Thai programs, a lot of nature stuff but also translated Japanese cartoons so he gets a window on the world outside Thailand. I don't know how but he knows about 'Trump' and 'Brexit'. Many of the things he looks at concern American youths so he gets the street language as well, including <deleted> and blinding unfortunately but that also belongs to the English language. I just let him choose what he wants but look in now and again and make him change stuff if i don't think that what he is watching is appropriate,ie. too much swearing etc.

We have flash cards (mainly for my younger one) and I have gone so far as to get a real sweet telescope for my eldest as she started to get into stargazing etc... We purchased books on Astronomy together, we went out at night and looked at the stars (Venus is that big light in the night sky as of late) and suddenly overnight, she was convinced by her school mates to do what they want, which is be a cook.... Me and the missus are both stunned, but we put it down to her becoming a teenager.... Past weekend she was invited to her friends place, so of course we said its fine as long as she comes home at 4pm.... AT 5pm, we rang the parents and discovered that they put her on a motorbike taxi as the wife was too tired to drive my daughter home.... That family is banned from entering my home now and I have banned my daughter from any after school association with that friend.... I did warn her a few months back about the friend, when I was asked if they could borrow my scooter to go to the shops.... I was very effin angry and gave my daughter he first BIG warning about that friend!

 

The Thai parents are stupid and and its passed down the generations and any hope of a decent education falls on teachers who may have had those stupid parents and may have ridiculous and illogical morals and attitudes...

 

The flip side of the coin is to put my kids into an international school and become brats... I did find a semi private school in Chiang Mai which was great and the kids where fantastic... So finding a school that is middle ground in Pattaya is my next goal :)

Edited December 14, 2016 by thhMan

[phantomfiddler]

A farang friend took over the raising and education of an employee,s young son after the father died, and the result now, around 20 years later, is staggering !

Obviously the most important thing is parental influence, and sadly this just isn,t happening here

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, thhMan said:

We have flash cards (mainly for my younger one) and I have gone so far as to get a real sweet telescope for my eldest as she started to get into stargazing etc... We purchased books on Astronomy together, we went out at night and looked at the stars (Venus is that big light in the night sky as of late) and suddenly overnight, she was convinced by her school mates to do what they want, which is be a cook.... Me and the missus are both stunned, but we put it down to her becoming a teenager.... Past weekend she was invited to her friends place, so of course we said its fine as long as she comes home at 4pm.... AT 5pm, we rang the parents and discovered that they put her on a motorbike taxi as the wife was too tired to drive my daughter home.... That family is banned from entering my home now and I have banned my daughter from any after school association with that friend.... I did warn her a few months back about the friend, when I was asked if they could borrow my scooter to go to the shops.... I was very effin angry and gave my daughter he first BIG warning about that friend!

 

The Thai parents are stupid and and its passed down the generations and any hope of a decent education falls on teachers who may have had those stupid parents and may have ridiculous and illogical morals and attitudes...

Yes, it is difficult and a lot of sweat and nerves are necessary. My Thai/British son i could grab very early, i only ever spoke English to him, when my mother-in- law heard me speaking English to him as a baby she said to my wife, why do you let him do that, he wont be able to understand it, to which the wife replied, do you think he will be able to understand Thai at three months, he is learning for Gods sake. With my two Thai step daughters it was more of a battle but i have won the fight. When i took them over so to speak they were 10 and 5 years old now 21 and 16. The 21 year old is just finishing her university education at the Surin university for technology and the 16 year old wants to get an officers patent in the navy, despite her biological father telling her that learning to play football was more important than education ( she even had the nerve to tell him he is stupid because he cant read) i don't mind a bit of cheek because it shows a certain self respect. When my son was being checked at the hospital for being overactive ( something his teacher ordered, i saw no problems ) he answered the doctor in English, why don't you speak Thai to me, why don't you speak English to me. Cheeky but it amused the doctor, after a 4 hour examination he told us there is nothing wrong with him but he has a very high IQ so he gets bored in class.

I am quite happy with the village school and with the 16 year old's secondary education, i checked her maths once because she asked me to, i was impressed and dismayed at how much i had forgotten.

[exalll]

I think the real reason is having their hair too long.

[teacher0826]

IT is NOT the Government, it is NOT the Curriculum, it is NOT about the Money, it is NOT about Disparity in the system… IT IS THE G_ _ D_ _ _ Thai teachers fault !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beats56]

36 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, it is difficult and a lot of sweat and nerves are necessary. My Thai/British son i could grab very early, i only ever spoke English to him, when my mother-in- law heard me speaking English to him as a baby she said to my wife, why do you let him do that, he wont be able to understand it, to which the wife replied, do you think he will be able to understand Thai at three months, he is learning for Gods sake. With my two Thai step daughters it was more of a battle but i have won the fight. When i took them over so to speak they were 10 and 5 years old now 21 and 16. The 21 year old is just finishing her university education at the Surin university for technology and the 16 year old wants to get an officers patent in the navy, despite her biological father telling her that learning to play football was more important than education ( she even had the nerve to tell him he is stupid because he cant read) i don't mind a bit of cheek because it shows a certain self respect. When my son was being checked at the hospital for being overactive ( something his teacher ordered, i saw no problems ) he answered the doctor in English, why don't you speak Thai to me, why don't you speak English to me. Cheeky but it amused the doctor, after a 4 hour examination he told us there is nothing wrong with him but he has a very high IQ so he gets bored in class.

I am quite happy with the village school and with the 16 year old's secondary education, i checked her maths once because she asked me to, i was impressed and dismayed at how much i had forgotten.

I total understand you re hyper active kid. My first boy back home was the same way in public school. The teacher wanted me to get his hearing tested and do some test. Hé aced them all. Hé is just a active independent thinking boy.

Ha taught himself guitar, piano, drums and harmonica and wrote music. Had a band at 15. Hé has traveled to.Spain, NZ, Vietnam, Thailand and now is in California. And he is only 23.

Now I have a 4 and a half boy here...and quess what...he acts the same way as my 1st boy. At least I know what to expect. Never a dull moment.

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

Along with a lack of logical thinking I have never yet in over 25 years in Thailand found any trace of common sense. I guess they are one and the same.

[Beats56]

Education starts at home. Get them educational toys that requires thinking and problem solving. Let them ask questions and teach them to think. Let them help you using tools...aquiring skills. Put minecraft on the pc to help with logic and reasoning. Their little minds are like sponges. Teach them your native language and mom can teach hers. Show them how to  be responsible and conciderate. 

That's my 2 baht.

 

[TomTao]

I did a little teaching here in Thailand, and I was constantly frustrated by both teachers and students inability to grasp simple concepts, try teaching logic or critical thinking and all you get is blank stares. Now that one of the problems has been identified, I hope a plan to improve teaching techniques that inclide logical thinking and critical thinking is developed, Thais are intelligent people, but the way they are educated makes them robots not innovators.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[whatproblem]

It's as much the parents responsibility to teach their children as is the schools ,parents need to help and make sure kids do their homework and spend time with a book or something and not just play phone and look tv,your kids ,help them learn

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

on the system’s failure to encourage logical thinking.

To much logical thinking here could upset the political apple cart. 

[soalbundy]

34 minutes ago, TomTao said:

I did a little teaching here in Thailand, and I was constantly frustrated by both teachers and students inability to grasp simple concepts, try teaching logic or critical thinking and all you get is blank stares. Now that one of the problems has been identified, I hope a plan to improve teaching techniques that inclide logical thinking and critical thinking is developed, Thais are intelligent people, but the way they are educated makes them robots not innovators.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

I think that a lot of the 'learning by heart' system instead of thinking comes from learning to read the language in the first place. I bought books, lots of books to teach myself to read Thai when i was in Germany, it is extremely difficult. The tones are given not only by the three classes of letters but also by a combination of the word ending and the diacritical signs, in the end i made up a table of rules, when the word starts with... has an ending with the letter... it has a falling tone except if the diacritical sign... is used then it has a rising tone, etc. it was a large table of rules. They don't seem to teach these rules at school instead they are taught to remember how the word is spelled. This doesn't sound too bad but Thai is a tonal language, a misspelled word can change its meaning completely, unlike English. Many of the words have letters which aren't used for pronouncing the sound of the word instead they govern the tone. I can imagine that from there on all the other subjects that are taught follow the same scheme, ie, 'remember it,that is the way it is'

There are also different ways of expressing yourself,when i first tried speaking Thai to a Thai person he said, you speak like the king, that isn't the way to speak normally, it was because i had only read Thai books and written Thai is expressed differently, don't read books he said,read newspapers or comic books, which is maybe why ghost story comic books are so popular.

[todlad]

Many good points made here. The quality of teachers and their training as well as their management are vital. I know of a teacher whose job is that of generalist. However, he likes maths so that's all he teaches, whatever the timetable says: a management problem.

 

You know these stories too.

 

As others have done, I will mention Thai society and culture. Our toddler's doctor told Mrs todlad not to teach her English as it would confuse her. Complete folly but I wonder how many people follow such advice? Our daughter is doing very well in both languages. I know foreign men who cannot talk to their own children.

 

The in laws are something else: all highly uneducated with ambitions to match. Mother in law's dream will be for our daughter to be in a parade carrying a photo of someone whilst dressed up to the nines. No knowledge or logical thinking required there. It's not going to happen.

 

i have discussed the in laws in this forum before but we recently moved house because of them. They stalked us and our daughter. They kidnapped the daughter. They taught her Buddhist rituals and how to sweep the floor ... at twelve months old.

 

i travel quite a bit for work but after one trip I was so incensed by what the mother in law was doing that I cut off all contact between the family and our daughter for about two weeks. Of course there were tears and Mrs todlad is supportive when I am there. Not so strong when I am away.

 

Back to the topic: here is a hard working Thai farming family who will never understand my aspirations. Logical thinking is the least of their worries and I imagine such people are found all over Thailand.

 

In case anyone thinks I am dismissing all Thais, not so. I have worked with some highly educated Thais whose performance is as good as anyone.

[Baerboxer]

The overhaul and transformation required is massive. Ain't gonna happen easily.

 

Logical thinking, critical thinking, cause & effect, learning by experimentation, doing, and challenging. - All not understood let alone valued here.

 

Ever listened to a Thai conversation about the simplest questions? I saw a US visiting professor bewildered watching a young Thai colleague trying to organize what sandwiches people wanted for lunch. It was like trying to split the atom. Couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery between them. The American eventually had to comment and embarrass them. The answer - went off a bought some Pizzas instead!

 

These were all well educated professional people with Master's degrees from overseas!

[KIWIBATCH]

Well there is an easy fix to this problem for the Thai Education Deot...form another committee...with sub committees..

...announce another "review"....talk about it ad infinitum....do nothing...then add the review to the list of previous reviews....add the committee and sub committees to the list of previous xcommittees....then sit back and do absollutely mothing....review completed.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

The overhaul and transformation required is massive. Ain't gonna happen easily.

 

Logical thinking, critical thinking, cause & effect, learning by experimentation, doing, and challenging. - All not understood let alone valued here.

 

Ever listened to a Thai conversation about the simplest questions? I saw a US visiting professor bewildered watching a young Thai colleague trying to organize what sandwiches people wanted for lunch. It was like trying to split the atom. Couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery between them. The American eventually had to comment and embarrass them. The answer - went off a bought some Pizzas instead!

 

These were all well educated professional people with Master's degrees from overseas!

That reminds me of a friend of mine who had a pub near the sea in England. Lots of coaches used to pull up for people to have a quick snack. He had sandwiches on show in a glass case, all ham and cheese. I asked him why he didn't have a greater variety, ''because they can never make their bleeding minds up, they take ages discussing what to buy before the next couple behind them start the same theater, so now it's just cheese and ham, works a treat.