Given up on the idea of living in Thailand

[JB300]

Title says it all really, since moving to Singapore (at 42) for work in 2008 I've been planning on easing my way into retiring in Thailand but nowadays it just feels like too much hassle.

Firstly, finally hit the big 50 so qualify for a Non-O / O-A (not sure about the O-A from the UK as I'm not drawing a pension) but I need 800k in the bank... No problem I'm a CitiGold customer (mention this only because you need to maintain at least $200kUSD investible assets with them to qualify)... But that doesn't count because it's in Singapore.

OK, I'll open an account in Thailand... Cannot, no Work Permit (most branches) or Long Term Visa (irony is not lost on me that I only need the account to deposit the monies so I can get the long term Visa / Extension of stay... So Chicken & Egg)... Or I could Scratch about for a branch that will open an account on a Visa exempt (Seriously!!!)

No problem Thailand Elite it is... 1Million Baht (check) Visa (check) Bank account (they'll help me get one so am assuming check)... All sorted, just 90 day reports (doubt I'd need to with my normal travel plans) and/or 1 year extensions (definitely won't need, haven't spent a full year in any country in 35 years).

Oh but wait, now we have the fact that every time I travel (average 15-20 times a year) & return to Thailand I would need to visit immigration & complete a TM28 to let them know I'm back in (what would be) my own Condo

[Rant over... Question time] Seriously? What's the point? Why not just come on holiday, live elsewhere.

[Nb I understand if you're married to a Thai and/or have a Thai family, but this is aimed at guys who (like me) aren't]

[A1Str8]

The reason it is not easy is because they would rather have foreigners.. Come on holiday and live elsewhere, like you said. 

It's still easy nonetheless. 

[guzzi850m2]

You can get a multi entry on a retirement visa, I got one, so not reporting to immigration but fly out/in as I pleases. 

 

I have 4 bank accounts here in Thailand in 3 different banks and never had a work permit.

 

You seems well off, you can easily live here, IF you want.

[steve187]

you do whats best for you, but to say its all because of tm28, what a load of rubbish, most people never complete one, some posters are going overboard with their scaremongering views on the subject.

[Rhys]

YES it is a pain with all this paper work jazz and immigration and work permit people, making life interesting for westerners, simply because they can and will.

 

That's the deal and with deal with it the best way we can... but still enjoy.

 

Cheers mate

[JB300]

you do whats best for you, but to say its all because of tm28, what a load of rubbish, most people never complete one, some posters are going overboard with their scaremongering views on the subject.

Maybe so, but apparently it is the "Rule" & it does seem like they're applying it more & more http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/960761-notification-of-residence-fine-popular-thing/ so not "rubbish" to me (YMMV).

I thought of 3 good places (in Asia) to base yourself for travelling... Singapore, (somewhere near) Bangkok & KL so had planned on being in Thailand for 5-10 years (maybe even settle there if I could convince my Filipina to move over), but (to me) it just feels like it's becoming more & more of a hassle.

[tazly]

OP look at the bright side...you can chew gum in Thailand and not be caned like in Singa-poo, so all that paperwork must be worth it!

Oh yes, and no haze every year for 5 months from Sumatran bog fires like in Sing

Edited December 30, 2016 by tazly
typo

[ezzra]

Each to his own really, your predicaments are unique to yourself only, every other

foreigner in Thailand has it's own reasons and calculations why he's here,

and many of them are still here year after year, asking other people to convince

you or give you a valid reasons why you should live or leave Thailand will only make

you more confused......

[1FinickyOne]

You sound to be comfortable financially. If you qualify for a visa, it is not much of a problem, though some people complain about it bitterly. These people usually feel Thailand should be honored to have them here and should pay them to stay. Being that there are so many retirees here who seem to be living on the edge, I would think that if they can easily meet the simple requirements, you can too, if you want. 

[stevenl]

You don't need the money in a Thai bank to apply for the visa. Apply for the visa with overseas money, come to Thailand with non immigrant-O visa, open bank account and deposit 800k, apply for extension of stay.
Easy and painless process.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[JB300]

You don't need the money in a Thai bank to apply for the visa. Apply for the visa with overseas money, come to Thailand with non immigrant-O visa, open bank account and deposit 800k, apply for extension of stay.
Easy and painless process.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

Unfortunately UK only seems to grant Non-O "Retirement" visas to people receiving a pension, Singapore only grants them to Citizens & SPRs & any every other country seems to want money in the bank in Thailand (be happy to learn of one that doesn't).

But as I said (Probably slurred would be a better term) I can get around that & can handle the odd 90 day report, but can't get my head around the TM28 reporting each time you come back to the country.

I'm guessing most people either don't travel outside of Thailand very much, or leave it to their landlord to do (do you tell your landlord everytime you go away?) or simply don't bother with it.

[JB300]

Each to his own really, your predicaments are unique to yourself only, every other
foreigner in Thailand has it's own reasons and calculations why he's here,
and many of them are still here year after year, asking other people to convince
you or give you a valid reasons why you should live or leave Thailand will only make
you more confused......

Very true sir & there are lots of good reasons to live in Thailand, high up for me was access to one of the best airport hubs (for flight choices) in the region[emoji106]

[dentonian]

You've got your knickers in a twist somewhere along the line.

Firstly if you intend to retire in Thailand the UK will issue a Non Imm O SE 90 day Visa, no problem.

Opening a bank account is easy without a WP provided you a) Request a Savings Account, and b) someone introduces you to the bank.

Then transfer your 800,000THB asap.

 

Within the last 30 days of your Visa apply for an extension of stay from your local Immigration office. (1,900THB)

As long as you meet the financial requirement of 800,000THB in a Thai bank, an income of 65,000THB a month, or a combination of the two it's a cinch.

Obtain a multi entry permit for you extension (3,800THB) and you can come and go as you please.

 

There is no requirement to complete TM28's which are to notify a change of address.

There is requirement to complete TM30's by the housemaster each time you return. This should be the responsibility of your Condo management each time you return, it also depends if your local Immigration office are enforcing this requirement.

 

As in your words you exit/enter 12/15 times a year, then you'll never be required to do 90 day reports, which are only required if your staying longer than 90 days. Your 90 day count resets to 1 each time you exit/re-enter.

[Kasset Tak]

If you are traveling in and out of Thailand then you give your address on the arrival card and then there is no need of the TM28 as you don't change address or anything DURING your stay in Thailand!

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, dentonian said:

Firstly if you intend to retire in Thailand the UK will issue a Non Imm O SE 90 day Visa, no problem.

They will not do them for about 2 years now. They will only issue non-o visas in the UK if your are 65 or over and drawing a state pension.

Most people under 65 are getting a single entry tourist visa and then changing to a non immigrant visa entry at immigration.

[Munotlaw]

7 hours ago, tazly said:

OP look at the bright side...you can chew gum in Thailand and not be caned like in Singa-poo, so all that paperwork must be worth it!

Oh yes, and no haze every year for 5 months from Sumatran bog fires like in Sing

 

I mean comparing Singapore to Thailand is a joke. Singapore is a great place to live with some law and order.

Munotlaw

[steve187]

there seems to be some confusion about tm28,  completed & submitted  when you change address, not required every trip and tm 30 completed by house owner in some offices not required every trip

[dentonian]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They will not do them for about 2 years now. They will only issue non-o visas in the UK if your are 65 or over and drawing a state pension.

Most people under 65 are getting a single entry tourist visa and then changing to a non immigrant visa entry at immigration.

 

If you are over 50, not married to a Thai and not in receipt of a State Pension and intend to retire in Thailand they will issue a Non Imm O SE Visa. The Consulates can no longer issue these, only the Embassy.

I obtained one two years ago and many have obtained them since.

A personal friend (53), now on an extension, obtained one in August this year from the London Embassy based on their intention to retire in Thailand.

 

There was a topic about this some months ago, with members attesting to that fact.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

If you are over 50, not married to a Thai and not in receipt of a State Pension and intend to retire in Thailand they will issue a Non Imm O SE Visa. The Consulates can no longer issue these, only the Embassy.

I obtained one two years ago and many have obtained them since.

A personal friend (53), now on an extension, obtained one in August this year from the London Embassy based on their intention to retire in Thailand.

 

There was a topic about this some months ago, with members attesting to that fact.

You need to go back and do some additional  research. I cannot recall any recent reports of anybody getting a single entry non-o visa from the embassy in London if under 65 years old. They will only issue a OA visa.

Even before they started the 65 year old rule people could not get non-o visas for being 50 or over at the embassy.

[Caracena]

Yesterday we returned from a trip and my husband had to go to our local immigration in Samut Prakan the same day to submit TM28 to comply  with the stupid rule of 24 hours. If he wouldn't do it he would be fined for sure because several teachers from his school were. The immigration started to enforce this rule 1 or 2 months ago. Our last 2 landlords had no wish and showed no initiative to provide us with a house registration. For them it's a lot of hassle, in no way will they submit any kind of TM30 forms during 24hrs or even 7 days. They are very busy and live in Bangkok. And looks like the immigration here only fines foreigners for not having a house registration and not submitting TM28. They are not interested to enforce any rules on the house owners. So my husband had to do his house registration with the school's dormitory and pay for it. I think the only places that do (at least sometimes) submit TM30 are hotels and condos or townhouse residences that have an office (what they call the Juristic person here in Thailand). The previous house we rented and the townhouse we rent now don't have any office (Juristic person) so we have to resolve all our problems with registration and TM forms by ourselves. It's very frustrating and tiring. It was way easier when we lived in condo in Bangkok, but who knows - any moment Chaeng Watthana Immigration may also start to enforce house registration and TM28.

[JB300]

You've got your knickers in a twist somewhere along the line.

Firstly if you intend to retire in Thailand the UK will issue a Non Imm O SE 90 day Visa, no problem.

Opening a bank account is easy without a WP provided you a) Request a Savings Account, and  someone introduces you to the bank.

Then transfer your 800,000THB asap.

 

Within the last 30 days of your Visa apply for an extension of stay from your local Immigration office. (1,900THB)

As long as you meet the financial requirement of 800,000THB in a Thai bank, an income of 65,000THB a month, or a combination of the two it's a cinch.

Obtain a multi entry permit for you extension (3,800THB) and you can come and go as you please.

 

There is no requirement to complete TM28's which are to notify a change of address.

There is requirement to complete TM30's by the housemaster each time you return. This should be the responsibility of your Condo management each time you return, it also depends if your local Immigration office are enforcing this requirement.

 

As in your words you exit/enter 12/15 times a year, then you'll never be required to do 90 day reports, which are only required if your staying longer than 90 days. Your 90 day count resets to 1 each time you exit/re-enter.

Knickers probably got twisted around beer #8 [emoji17] But as UbonJoe has confirmed, UK only issues Non-O (Retirement) to people who are receiving a State Pension.

Good point about getting somebody to introduce me to the Bank, I work for one & we have approx 300 people in Bangkok so I'm sure I could find somebody.

I really can't think of a better place to live (if you love to travel) than Bangkok (love living in Singapore but wouldn't if wasn't working here & spent a year using KL as a base for travelling but wouldn't want to live there) so guess it's jump through the hoops or accept the hassles of living somewhere where you need to add a(nother) flight connection to your travels (I do need to keep in mind I won't be travelling for work when I retire so less number of trips, but more time spent in each location)

[dentonian]

24 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You need to go back and do some additional  research. I cannot recall any recent reports of anybody getting a single entry non-o visa from the embassy in London if under 65 years old. They will only issue a OA visa.

Even before they started the 65 year old rule people could not get non-o visas for being 50 or over at the embassy.

 

I'll politely disagree with you on this issue Joe.

I obtained my Non Imm O SE Visa from Liverpool (2014) before the Consulates were stopped issuing them earlier this year.

 

Since then I personally know of two friends who have obtained them from the London Embassy for the purpose of retirement in Thailand.

Neither married to a Thai or in receipt of state Pension. Both over 50.

Making it clear you want to apply for an extension in Thailand appears to be the key.

 

The other option is to get a TV and do a conversion in Thailand as you stated.

[dentonian]

6 minutes ago, Caracena said:

Yesterday we returned from a trip and my husband had to go to our local immigration in Samut Prakan the same day to submit TM28 to comply  with the stupid rule of 24 hours. If he wouldn't do it he would be fined for sure because several teachers from his school were. The immigration started to enforce this rule 1 or 2 months ago. Our last 2 landlords had no wish and showed no initiative to provide us with a house registration. For them it's a lot of hassle, in no way will they submit any kind of TM30 forms during 24hrs or even 7 days. They are very busy and live in Bangkok. And looks like the immigration here only fines foreigners for not having a house registration and not submitting TM28. They are not interested to enforce any rules on the house owners. So my husband had to do his house registration with the school's dormitory and pay for it. I think the only places that do (at least sometimes) submit TM30 are hotels and condos or townhouse residences that have an office (what they call the Juristic person here in Thailand). The previous house we rented and the townhouse we rent now don't have any office (Juristic person) so we have to resolve all our problems with registration and TM forms by ourselves. It's very frustrating and tiring. It was way easier when we lived in condo in Bangkok, but who knows - any moment Chaeng Watthana Immigration may also start to enforce house registration and TM28.

 

Why?

Did you change address.

 

It is only the TM30 (registration of an alien residing at address) that is being enforced by some offices.

There is absolutely no requirement to submit a TM28 (change of address) unless you are moving to a new permanent residence.

[Caracena]

Dentonian, TM28 has to be submitted each time you come to Thailand from abroad. That's how it is here in Samut Prakan. You want me to give you the names of people who didn't do it and were fined? I don't think it's ethical to do it without their permission.

The full name of TM28 is: Form for aliens to notify their change of address or their stay in the province for over 24 hours

[jpinx]

21 minutes ago, Caracena said:

Yesterday we returned from a trip and my husband had to go to our local immigration in Samut Prakan the same day to submit TM28 to comply  with the stupid rule of 24 hours. If he wouldn't do it he would be fined for sure because several teachers from his school were. The immigration started to enforce this rule 1 or 2 months ago. Our last 2 landlords had no wish and showed no initiative to provide us with a house registration. For them it's a lot of hassle, in no way will they submit any kind of TM30 forms during 24hrs or even 7 days. They are very busy and live in Bangkok. And looks like the immigration here only fines foreigners for not having a house registration and not submitting TM28. They are not interested to enforce any rules on the house owners. So my husband had to do his house registration with the school's dormitory and pay for it. I think the only places that do (at least sometimes) submit TM30 are hotels and condos or townhouse residences that have an office (what they call the Juristic person here in Thailand). The previous house we rented and the townhouse we rent now don't have any office (Juristic person) so we have to resolve all our problems with registration and TM forms by ourselves. It's very frustrating and tiring. It was way easier when we lived in condo in Bangkok, but who knows - any moment Chaeng Watthana Immigration may also start to enforce house registration and TM28.

Who told you that you *had* to go and report?  As I understand it the address entry on your arrival card is sufficient and you only need to report if you move. 

You say yourself -- 

"The full name of TM28 is: Form for aliens to notify their change of address or their stay in the province for over 24 hours "

The 24 hours is the duration of your stay, not a limit on the reporting time.

Edited December 31, 2016 by jpinx

[tazly]

1 hour ago, Munotlaw said:

 

I mean comparing Singapore to Thailand is a joke. Singapore is a great place to live with some law and order.

Munotlaw

"some" being the operative word......

[dentonian]

1 minute ago, Caracena said:

Dentonian, TM28 has to be submitted each time you come to Thailand from abroad. That's how it is here in Samut Prakan. You want me to give you the names of people who didn't do it and were fined? I don't think it's ethical to do it without their permission.

The full name of TM28 is: Form for aliens to notify their change of address or their stay in the province for over 24 hours

 

Then Samut Prakan must be a rouge office.

A foreigner notifies his address on the TM6 arrival card.

 

I don't doubt you, but this requirement isn't applied nationally.

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

Then Samut Prakan must be a rouge office.

A foreigner notifies his address on the TM6 arrival card.

 

I don't doubt you, but this requirement isn't applied nationally.

I think there should be a caveat on ALL posting, that the rules are applied by immigration in accordance with the interpretation of the officer dealing with your case. 

[dentonian]

5 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Who told you that you *had* to go and report?  As I understand it the address entry on your arrival card is sufficient and you only need to report if you move. 

You say yourself -- 

"The full name of TM28 is: Form for aliens to notify their change of address or their stay in the province for over 24 hours "

The 24 hours is the duration of your stay, not a limit on the reporting time.

 

My office were wrongly fining expats for not filing a TM30 the same day they returned to their address.

They misinterpreted the law, which states within 24 hours, not same day.

They have apologised and corrected their procedure.

[Caracena]

In October several teachers in my husband's school in Samut Prakan went out on vacation from Thailand and went somewhere else. When they came back the person in school who deals with the Immigration office told them about the enforcement of a new rule that you have to submit TM28 if you went out from Thailand and came back (yes, in the same place). Even though those teachers didn't know about this rule they had to pay a fine. If they wouldn't do it, at the point when they will have to do their Non-B/Non-O visa extensions at that Immigration office the fine would grow much higher (200 baht per day).