Urgent Request for Information re Death of British Citizen in Thailand

[webfact]

Chinese state tabloid warns Trump, end one China policy and China will take revenge

REUTERS

 

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump arrives to speak during a USA Thank You Tour event at Giant Center in Hershey, Pennsylvania, U.S., December 15, 2016. REUTERS/Lucas Jackson/Files

 

SHANGHAI/TAIPEI (Reuters) - State-run Chinese tabloid Global Times warned U.S. President-elect Donald Trump that China would take "take revenge" if he reneged on the one-China policy, only hours after Taiwan's president made a controversial stopover in Houston.

 

Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen met senior U.S. Republican lawmakers during her stopover in Houston on Sunday en route to Central America, where she will visit Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatemala and El Salvador.

 

Beijing had asked Washington not to allow Tsai to enter the United States and that she not have any formal government meetings under the one China policy.

 

A photograph tweeted by Texas Governor Greg Abbott shows him meeting Tsai, with a small table between them adorned with the U.S., Texas and Taiwanese flags. Tsai also met Texas Senator Ted Cruz.

 

"Sticking to (the one China) principle is not a capricious request by China upon U.S. presidents, but an obligation of U.S. presidents to maintain China-U.S. relations and respect the existing order of the Asia-Pacific," said the Global Times editorial on Sunday. The influential tabloid is published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily.

 

Trump triggered protests from Beijing last month by accepting a congratulatory telephone call from Tsai and questioning Washington's commitment to China's position that Taiwan is part of one China.

 

"If Trump reneges on the one-China policy after taking office, the Chinese people will demand the government to take revenge. There is no room for bargaining," said the Global Times.

 

Trump has said that he will not meet with any foreign leaders before he takes office, but left open the possibility of meeting Tsai after his inauguration on Jan. 20.

 

Cruz said some members of Congress had received a letter from the Chinese consulate asking them not to meet with Tsai during her stopovers.

 

"The People's Republic of China needs to understand that in America we make decisions about meeting with visitors for ourselves," Cruz said in a statement. "This is not about the PRC. This is about the U.S. relationship with Taiwan, an ally we are legally bound to defend."

 

Cruz said he and Tsai discussed upgrading bilateral relations and furthering economic cooperation between their countries, including increased access to Taiwanese markets that will benefit Texas ranchers, farmers and small businesses.

 

Tsai's office has stayed low key about her U.S. meetings, saying on Monday only that Tsai talked with "friends" during her private and unofficial stopover. Tsai will stopover on Jan. 13 in San Francisco on her way back to Taiwan.

 

In a dinner speech Saturday to hundreds of overseas Taiwanese, Tsai said that the United States holds a "special place in the hearts of the people of Taiwan" and that the self-ruled island via bilateral exchanges has provided more than 320,000 jobs directly and indirectly to the American people, according to a statement from her office Monday.

 

Tsai said Taiwan looks to create more U.S. jobs through deeper investment, trade and procurement.

 

China is deeply suspicious of Tsai, who it thinks wants to push for the formal independence of Taiwan, a self-governing island that Beijing regards as a renegade province, ineligible for state-to-state relations.

 

The Global Times, whose stance does not equate with government policy, also targeted Tsai in the editorial, saying that the mainland would likely impose further diplomatic, economic and military pressure on Taiwan, warning that "Tsai needs to face the consequences for every provocative step she takes".

 

"It should also impose military pressure on Taiwan and push it to the edge of being reunified by force, so as to effectively affect the approval rating of the Tsai administration."

 

(Reporting by Brenda Goh in Shanghai and J.R. Wu in Taipei; Editing by Michael Perry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-01-09

[khwaibah]

So the headline reads if Trump ENDS the one China policy then China WILL take revenge. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by khwaibah

[taichiplanet]

2 faced China. They are so quick to condemn when they think someone is meddling with their affairs, but like a petulant child they are happy to try and meddle in other country's affairs when it suits. Maybe with Trump the USA might have a set of balls instead of kowtowing to China over who or who cannot come into the US.

[pookiki]

Interesting situation because so many large US corporations outsource their production to factories in China -- Apple for one.  And China owns a lot of US foreign debt (bonds).  Monopoly capitalism is so entrenched in global political affairs, it will take some time (and maybe not possible at all)  if Trump is serious about changing the current relationship with China.  Given China's moves in the region, it 'might' make sense to confront China but the companies with production facilities in China will have to make a quick exit first.  India or ASEAN countries with good relations with the US could be an alternative.

Edited January 9, 2017 by pookiki
grammar

[Calach]

The one China is Taïwan, and to some extent the Chinese diaspora. China died in mainland China with Mao Zedong Cultural Revolution. Except perhaps in the remote countryside, the only thing that's left of China there is touchy nationalism, and a bit of folklore and epic historical cinema to support it.

[klauskunkel]

Quote

Chinese state tabloid warns Trump

Waiting for Trump's response in Mad Magazine

[Emster23]

Got to hand it to Trump for his ability to create diplomatic rows for no useful purpose. You say tomato and I say tomato (doesn't work so well in print). Doesn't matter which side has more to lose, question might be "Why put all sides in losing positions?". Trump not happy with his tie factory?

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, Calach said:

The one China is Taïwan, and to some extent the Chinese diaspora. China died in mainland China with Mao Zedong Cultural Revolution. Except perhaps in the remote countryside, the only thing that's left of China there is touchy nationalism, and a bit of folklore and epic historical cinema to support it.

So they're not speaking Chinese languages there anymore? Not eating Chinese foods? What nationality do these 1.3 billion people belong to?

[anotheruser]

Well this will only make it harder for Trump to back down if that's what China wanted. If he bows to the threat now he will be eaten alive for being soft. So it starts...

[mike324]

5 hours ago, Calach said:

The one China is Taïwan, and to some extent the Chinese diaspora. China died in mainland China with Mao Zedong Cultural Revolution. Except perhaps in the remote countryside, the only thing that's left of China there is touchy nationalism, and a bit of folklore and epic historical cinema to support it.

 

As much as I want to dislike China, they will be the future powerhouse and leading superpower in 20 years time. Taiwan nowadays is peanuts, their economy is stagnant - the country can't seem to developed further anymore and very few innovation is coming from the small country.

[IAMHERE]

What was it that America got for accepting the China idea of only one China? One Chine Policy; what did America get out of that one?

[elgordo38]

Be careful Donald the Chinese may go way way way back in history and claim American for their own. 

Zheng He (1371–1433 or 1435), formerly romanized as Cheng Ho, was a Hui court eunuch, mariner, explorer, diplomat, and fleet admiral during China's early Ming dynasty. ...... The Great Circle. .... up ^ Dreyer (2007): 82–95; Jump up ^ Dreyer (2007): 122–124; Jump up ^ "Briton charts Zheng He's course across globe".

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

China is deeply suspicious of Tsai, who it thinks wants to push for the formal independence of Taiwan, a self-governing island that Beijing regards as a renegade province, ineligible for state-to-state relations.

Life must be tough there with a big red dragon breathing down your neck all the time. This is now 2017 have a referendum about independence game over. The UN will defend you???? regarding the outcome of the vote. 

[Calach]

Just now, mike324 said:

 

As much as I want to dislike China, they will be the future powerhouse and leading superpower in 20 years time. Taiwan nowadays is peanuts, their economy is stagnant - the country can't seem to developed further anymore and very few innovation is coming from the small country.

 

I don't disagree with that, and I am actually quite impressed with the professionalism, disciplin, determination and rapidity of thought of most Chinese I work with daily. Just saying that Chinese culture, history and soul survived perhaps better outside mainland borders than within, since Mao wiped out a large part of the traditional elite and culture during the Cultural Revolution. Now they seem only obsessed with simple minded nationalism and economic development, and nothing else.

 

It's quite striking when you visit China, in any country in the world you can feel a general atmosphere specific to the place, when you're in a Chinese city it feels like it could be anywhere else in the world, it feels quite soul-less.

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Emster23 said:

Got to hand it to Trump for his ability to create diplomatic rows for no useful purpose. You say tomato and I say tomato (doesn't work so well in print). Doesn't matter which side has more to lose, question might be "Why put all sides in losing positions?". Trump not happy with his tie factory?

Doubt Taiwan would see it that way. Stick it to them Don. That sly little Russian goit too, he'll be knifing you in the back before too long.

Edited January 9, 2017 by jesimps

[ilostmypassword]

36 minutes ago, mike324 said:

 

As much as I want to dislike China, they will be the future powerhouse and leading superpower in 20 years time. Taiwan nowadays is peanuts, their economy is stagnant - the country can't seem to developed further anymore and very few innovation is coming from the small country.

Foxconn, the company that manufactures Iphones is Taiwanese.

[Opl]

8 hours ago, pookiki said:

Interesting situation because so many large US corporations outsource their production to factories in China -- Apple for one.  And China owns a lot of US foreign debt (bonds).  Monopoly capitalism is so entrenched in global political affairs, it will take some time (and maybe not possible at all)  if Trump is serious about changing the current relationship with China.  Given China's moves in the region, it 'might' make sense to confront China but the companies with production facilities in China will have to make a quick exit first.  India or ASEAN countries with good relations with the US could be an alternative.

 

"TPP was conceived as a vital move in the increasingly tense chess match between China and the United States for economic and military influence in the fastest-growing and most strategically uncertain part of the world. The deal, which excluded China, was intended to give those 11 nations more leverage in that strained match by providing them with a viable economic alternative. And its defeat is an unalloyed triumph for China, the country that President-elect Donald J. Trump castigated repeatedly over trade."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/business/international/apec-trade-china-obama-trump-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership.html?_r=0

[pookiki]

3 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

"TPP was conceived as a vital move in the increasingly tense chess match between China and the United States for economic and military influence in the fastest-growing and most strategically uncertain part of the world. The deal, which excluded China, was intended to give those 11 nations more leverage in that strained match by providing them with a viable economic alternative. And its defeat is an unalloyed triumph for China, the country that President-elect Donald J. Trump castigated repeatedly over trade."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/business/international/apec-trade-china-obama-trump-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership.html?_r=0

While TPP may have excluded China, the TPP was a blatant give away to US corporation to subvert US laws to protect consumer rights and the environment.  Plus, there was no transparency except for the CEOs at the negotiating table.  Trump used his alleged opposition to the TPP to win the votes of former blue collar workers in the 'rust' belt who have seen their jobs outsourced across the globe.  TPP could have and should have been negotiated in a transparent manner and in a way to protect consumer affairs, the environment, and the respective countries ability to seek judicial review of its implications.

[Canceraid]

Please let there be a war. Hope that China along with countries that support China or are vassal states of China are completely nuked.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

This is about the U.S. relationship with Taiwan, an ally we are legally bound to defend."

Well yes and no.

There is no security agreement between the US and Taiwan that requires the US to defend it by an attack from Comminst China. Such an agreement would essentially recognize two sovereign China's.

But there is the US Congressional law called the Taiwan Relations Act (1979) of which Taiwan is not a signatory that in part requires the US to "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion  that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act#Military_provisions

 

It might be debatable to what extent that the POTUS is obligated to face Communist China militarily over Taiwan indepdendence.

Look to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum between the US, UK and Russia that none of them would ever threaten or use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.  http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2014/03/constitution-check-does-a-1994-diplomatic-agreement-commit-the-u-s-to-defend-ukraine/  With invasion of Crimea by Russia, the US Congress did not push for military enforcement of the agreement. But the US POTUS did impose economic sanctions.

 

Under the War Powers Act of 1973 Trump could unilaterally order defense of Taiwan from Communist armed forces up to 60 days without congressional approval. But that brings a whole new set of domestic and foreign policy issues.

[JulesMad]

China, please take revenge only on trumpy!!!
Leave the innocent people (especially non-usa) alone

[nottocus]

Shut up China.

[retarius]

We live in interesting times. One hopes Trump doesn't make too many enemies at the same time…Russia China Iran and NK with either the legislature or Trump gunning for a profitable fight to continue the policy of perpetual war. The US has been very successful in picking off enemies one at a time up till now….but if these let get together? And who in NATO is going to follow Trump into war? Having said that they did follow Chump Bush into war….

 

If China and US were ever to go to war, Thailand as a staunch ally of the US might not be the best place to be living. Let's hope its not a shooting war.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Could Chine plan a nuclear Pearl Harbor style attach on continental USA while they wait out the retaliation in some of the 5,000 km of tunnels they have build?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Great_Wall_of_China

 

This is an interesting read: http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06/30/china-s-nuclear-doctrine-debates-and-evolution-pub-63967

Edited January 9, 2017 by ExpatOilWorker

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 minutes ago, retarius said:

We live in interesting times. One hopes Trump doesn't make too many enemies at the same time…Russia China Iran and NK with either the legislature or Trump gunning for a profitable fight to continue the policy of perpetual war. The US has been very successful in picking off enemies one at a time up till now….but if these let get together? And who in NATO is going to follow Trump into war? Having said that they did follow Chump Bush into war….

 

If China and US were ever to go to war, Thailand as a staunch ally of the US might not be the best place to be living. Let's hope its not a shooting war.

 

Half the worlds population lives inside the below circle (http://www.visualcapitalist.com/majority-worlds-population-lives-circle). Any large scale conflict in Asia will create an unprecedented humanitarian crises.  

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

We live in interesting times. One hopes Trump doesn't make too many enemies at the same time…Russia China Iran and NK with either the legislature or Trump gunning for a profitable fight to continue the policy of perpetual war. The US has been very successful in picking off enemies one at a time up till now….but if these let get together? And who in NATO is going to follow Trump into war? Having said that they did follow Chump Bush into war….

 

If China and US were ever to go to war, Thailand as a staunch ally of the US might not be the best place to be living. Let's hope its not a shooting war.

Nato allies did participate in the Afghani War.  But except for UK not much in the much bigger Iraq war. Remember Freedom Fries?

Edited January 9, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[SiSePuede419]

"If China and US were ever to go to war, Thailand as a staunch ally of the US might not be the best place to be living. "

 

That staunch ally would fold like a cheap card table if nukes started flying.  

 

All the geniuses living in China should leave NOW, if they are smart ?

[Ulysses G.]

9 hours ago, mike324 said:

 

As much as I want to dislike China, they will be the future powerhouse and leading superpower in 20 years time. 

 

Maybe, but I can remember when everyone was saying the same thing about Japan. They do not have a great track record. The Chinese have a tragic history of peaceful periods that turn into extreme violence against themselves - millions of Chinese being killed.

[charmonman]

As much as I despise Donald Trump, it is somewhat satisfying to see the US pushing back against China. I just wish there was going to be someone in charge with an emotional maturity and intellect somewhat above that of an eight year old boy.

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, pookiki said:

Interesting situation because so many large US corporations outsource their production to factories in China -- Apple for one.  And China owns a lot of US foreign debt (bonds).  Monopoly capitalism is so entrenched in global political affairs, it will take some time (and maybe not possible at all)  if Trump is serious about changing the current relationship with China.  Given China's moves in the region, it 'might' make sense to confront China but the companies with production facilities in China will have to make a quick exit first.  India or ASEAN countries with good relations with the US could be an alternative.

Or bring US manufacturing closer to home?