Intellectual Whore

FolkGuitar · January 18, 2017

1 hour ago, amykat said:

A Voice For Men is a group known to be Anti-Feminist ...similar to how the KKK is to blacks

Let me say this again. A feminist is for equality for women, for themselves. This is like blacks being for equality for blacks.

If you are ANTI-Feminists, that means you are trying to keep me from having equality. What do we call people who try to prevent blacks from having equality? Do we say blacks who want equality are doing something bad to white people and are anti-white (just on the face of it?)

I think this is what you are asking me. I am not being biased. He is a member of a group which is openly hostile to women's rights and would like to oppress them I guess. I don't follow them but they are on a warning list of the Southern Poverty Law Center. They were a group that took down the KKK initially, through a series a lawsuits that managed to bankrupt them if I remember correctly. They monitor hate groups.

Read the link guys. Do some research!!

I took your advice and did some research. I brought up the Southern Poverty Law Center and tried to find "A Voice For Men." There was no listing for it. There were lots of hits for "men," "voice," but nothing for 'A Voice for Men.' So I tried searching their site for Paul Elam, the founder of "A Voice for Men" according to Wiki, and found a handful of articles about a conference he was in attendance. I could NOT find anything in the entire Southern Poverty Law Center website that directly addressed or even directly mentioned "A Voice for Men."

Now, I'll admit, I'm not a great researcher. But their site's own search engine failed to bring up anything. Perhaps you can give us some citations validating your comments. What did stand out to me in your post, however, was your statement:

"He is a member of a group which is openly hostile to women's rights and would like to oppress them I guess. "

I guess? You mean, you really don't know? Which of you is more chauvinistic?

TKDfella · January 18, 2017

3 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

I took your advice and did some research. I brought up the Southern Poverty Law Center and tried to find "A Voice For Men." There was no listing for it. There were lots of hits for "men," "voice," but nothing for 'A Voice for Men.' So I tried searching their site for Paul Elam, the founder of "A Voice for Men" according to Wiki, and found a handful of articles about a conference he was in attendance. I could NOT find anything in the entire Southern Poverty Law Center website that directly addressed or even directly mentioned "A Voice for Men."

Now, I'll admit, I'm not a great researcher. But their site's own search engine failed to bring up anything. Perhaps you can give us some citations validating your comments. What did stand out to me in your post, however, was your statement:

"He is a member of a group which is openly hostile to women's rights and would like to oppress them I guess. "

I guess? You mean, you really don't know? Which of you is more chauvinistic?

Not sure if it is any help but I found this https://www.avoiceformen.com/ and this is Wiki;

A Voice for Men (also known as AVfM, AVFM or AV4M) is a United States-based^[1] for-profit limited liability company^[2] and online publication founded in 2009 by Paul Elam. A proponent of the men's rights movement, or "Men's Human Rights Activism", it is the largest and most influential men's rights website.^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6] Its editorial position is strongly antifeminist and frequently accuses feminists of being misandrist in their mindset.

FolkGuitar · January 18, 2017

1 minute ago, amykat said:

No, but it doesn't mean much compared to nothing. Most men do not ..not work. Most men earn more than women. Most women are not employed for periods due to children. Men don't have children. Most women are the caretakers of children.

The courts routinely give custody of the children to the mother. Not the father.

Is that 'equality? If you tell me that a mother is more fit to be custodian, I'll have to say that you are now being biased. Men are routinely drawn over the coals in divorce settlements, often losing everything.

HooHaa · January 18, 2017

2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

It's gotta be tough screwing up the fortitude for another trip to Rimping among the old boys wearing big grins, cargo shorts and flip flops, pushing their trolleys around whilst canoodling with a Thai bird half his age. Week after week. Month after Month.

i must admit it does get nauseating

Paul Catton · January 18, 2017

Any person who wishes to question my past, present and future are more than welcome to impart their sagacious discourse.

FolkGuitar · January 18, 2017

1 minute ago, TKDfella said:

Not sure if it is any help but I found this https://www.avoiceformen.com/ and this is Wiki;

A Voice for Men (also known as AVfM, AVFM or AV4M) is a United States-based^[1] for-profit limited liability company^[2] and online publication founded in 2009 by Paul Elam. A proponent of the men's rights movement, or "Men's Human Rights Activism", it is the largest and most influential men's rights website.^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6] Its editorial position is strongly antifeminist and frequently accuses feminists of being misandrist in their mindset.

Yes, I saw that too. But I learned long ago that Wiki articles are not necessarily based on fact. You or I can write a Wiki article with nothing more than our imagination. That article may well have been written by a staunch feminist. We simply don't know if it's factual.

I've seen a Wiki article about the actor Charles Bronson that says he was 5'11". He lived in my town in the US, and I saw him frequently. He was shorter than I am, and I'm 5'9".

TKDfella · January 18, 2017

Just now, FolkGuitar said:

Yes, I saw that too. But I learned long ago that Wiki articles are not necessarily based on fact. You or I can write a Wiki article with nothing more than our imagination. That article may well have been written by a staunch feminist. We simply don't know if it's factual.

I've seen a Wiki article about the actor Charles Bronson that says he was 5'11". He lived in my town in the US, and I saw him frequently. He was shorter than I am, and I'm 5'9".

But you will find the AV4M on the link I quoted it goes directly to the website.

TKDfella · January 18, 2017

VIDEOROLL

1 minute ago, TKDfella said:

But you will find the AV4M on the link I quoted it goes directly to the website.

LivinLOS · January 18, 2017

20 minutes ago, amykat said:

No, but it doesn't mean much compared to nothing. Most men do not ..not work. Most men earn more than women. Most women are not employed for periods due to children. Men don't have children. Most women are the caretakers of children.

Also, what state, country is that? But I do thank you for doing something, kind sir!!

You see when you deny something for which ample evidence exists.. Simply to maintain a blinkered position.. it weakens all else you claim.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmajohnson/2014/11/20/why-do-so-few-men-get-alimony/#5e51a1ee23c2

Quote

Of the 400,000 people in the United States receiving post-divorce spousal maintenance, just 3 percent were men, according to Census figures. Yet 40 percent of households are headed by female breadwinners -- suggesting that hundreds of thousands of men are eligible for alimony, yet don't receive it

Quote

Ressa and Lee Rosen, a Raleigh, N.C. based divorce lawyer and author of Divorcing Smartly: The End of a Marriage Isn't the End of the World. Both lawyers report that very few men walk into their offices with the intent of asking for alimony, even when their situations are clearly eligible for spousal support. Meanwhile, female breadwinners never pay alimony without a contentious battle. "Every guy in that situation has to go through a fight, while (breadwinning) guys go into the divorce accepting they have to pay," says Rosen. Then, facing humiliation, stress and expense of that fight, they are further disincentivized from pursuing spousal support. "Men are essentially shamed into not receiving alimony," Ressa says.

Adds Rosen: "Her attitude is always, 'Dude, get a job.'"

Depending on in which part of the country you live, the judge may say the same thing.

Equality right ??

Or say examples like this..

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/04/two-dozen-women-urge-scott-to-veto-alimony-bill.html

Quote

Gov. Rick Scott has less than a week to sign or veto the controversial alimony bill.

On Friday, two dozen women urged him to dust off his veto pen.

"If the governor wants to look pro-family, he should definitely veto this bill," said women's rights activist Barbara DeVane.

And what happened ?? http://news.wfsu.org/post/alimony-reform-supporters-shocked-veto-say-theyll-be-back-another-bill

So a man paying a woman alimony for life.. Social justice... in reverse.. That cant happen..

Equality.. Gotcha..

NOTE :: I have no special issue with alimony, its just one of so many ways in which modern feminism doesnt want equality, its wants all the easy options and none of the hardships, otherwise

Edited January 18, 2017 by LivinLOS

TKDfella · January 18, 2017

2 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

BLOGROLL

Men's Human Rights Ontario

A Voice for Male Students

Can-Fap

Derechos de los Hombres

VIDEOROLL

Paul Elam

Sage Gerard

Jonathan Taylor

Typhon Blue

or this;

SoiBiker · January 18, 2017

Oh sweet lord, here come the memes. This has been an interesting discussion. Lets not let it deteriorate into the kind of teenage boy bullshit that belongs on 4chan.

TallGuyJohninBKK · January 18, 2017

I would concur that extended discussions of alimony and divorce settlement practices are pretty far afield from the OP's issues and topic in this thread.

NancyL · January 18, 2017

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

You see when you deny something for which ample evidence exists.. Simply to maintain a blinkered position.. it weakens all else you claim.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmajohnson/2014/11/20/why-do-so-few-men-get-alimony/#5e51a1ee23c2

Equality right ??

Or say examples like this..

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/04/two-dozen-women-urge-scott-to-veto-alimony-bill.html

And what happened ?? http://news.wfsu.org/post/alimony-reform-supporters-shocked-veto-say-theyll-be-back-another-bill

So a man paying a woman alimony for life.. Social justice in reverse.. That cant happen..

Equality.. Gotcha..

NOTE :: I have no special issue with alimony, its just one of so many ways in which modern feminism doesnt want equality, its wants all the easy options and none of the hardships, otherwise

I've got to admit, the idea that a man could claim "alimony" but doesn't isn't as laughable as it seems. There's a provision in Social Security, where a divorced spouse can claim on the spouse's earnings, even if either party has remarried, provided the marriage lasted at least 10 years. The divorced spouses SS benefit is 1/2 half the amount of of the ex-spouses SS monthly benefit.

The ex-spouse doesn't have to know you're applying for this. As I recall, you do need to have details about your marriage and divorce and your ex-spouses full name and SS number. The sort of stuff everyone should have, i.e. all marriage and divorce records.

If the SS Administration approves the application, your ex-spouse will never know you applied and their monthly benefit won't change at all.

I've assisted some expat women in applying for this benefit and they're always grateful. No woman has ever turned down the offer of help and for some older expat women living here, this is their only source of income.

In some cases, I've encountered men who would seem to be eligible. They tell me how their ex-wives were very successful (fill in the blank) doctors or lawyers, while they were creative (but not highly paid) creative geniuses. Or they had jobs with under-the-table earnings (musician, taxi driver, etc) while their ex-wives had stable jobs and paid into SS. Yet, I've only had one guy willing to let me help him fill out the application for ex-spousal benefit and he was very pleased to get that extra $800 per month. I wonder if the others were telling the truth about their former lives or just prideful about accepting a "benefit" earned by their wife, even though she'd never know about it.

LivinLOS · January 18, 2017

A womans input on the florida feminists blocking equality.

http://judgybitch.com/2015/10/23/feminists-protest-equality-again/

LivinLOS · January 18, 2017

3 minutes ago, NancyL said:

I've got to admit, the idea that a man could claim "alimony" but doesn't isn't as laughable as it seems.

Not only doesnt, but the courts and judges are routinely stacked against it.. Its only one example of where equality is not only not sought, its fought against tooth and (manicured) nail.

Doesnt bother me.. I would happily support my current wife even if we split (and that got tested heavily) shes put up with my ass long enough I owe her the ability to live a life that she has become adjusted to. She handles our home life, I handle our finances.. Seems roughtly fair.. Shes FAR better at that than I am, and I am better at what I do than she could be. We just play to our strengths.

I dont feel like I am oppressing her and she certainly doesnt claim any oppression.. Believe me, if shes not happy, she lets me know.. Sure it may be old fashioned gender roles but you know what, they work. The cars got a flat I dont expect her to fix it !!

Paul Catton · January 18, 2017

6 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Oh sweet lord, here come the memes. This has been an interesting discussion. Lets not let it deteriorate into the kind of teenage boy bullshit that belongs on 4chan.

Yes, let us not it detrioriate from an interesting discussion that wasn't a discussion to begin with, but a bemoan by a virtuous female whom shall remain anonymous, free from challenge and impervious to scruitiny now being stonewalled by a mangina

LivinLOS · January 18, 2017

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I would concur that extended discussions of alimony and divorce settlement practices are pretty far afield from the OP's issues and topic in this thread.

Sure the threads moved way past that to modern feminism..

Which was really at the heart of much of the issues all along.

amykat · January 18, 2017

I guess you think I am just fighting for something for women? You can see from this example where men benefit now? Where with sexism if you are on the wrong side of the table, it also works against you? I am not pro that.

But if you look at the statistics re divorce, they show that women and children have suffered most. I don't have them with me at them moment. I am tired and don't want to look them up. But I have looked at them in the past. They show that a woman's standard of living does down quite drastically and usually stays that way along with the children. The man's standard of living may go down for a short time, but usually it pops right back up and stays there, and/or he continues to go up.

amykat · January 18, 2017

44 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

You see when you deny something for which ample evidence exists.. Simply to maintain a blinkered position.. it weakens all else you claim.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmajohnson/2014/11/20/why-do-so-few-men-get-alimony/#5e51a1ee23c2

Equality right ??

Or say examples like this..

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/04/two-dozen-women-urge-scott-to-veto-alimony-bill.html

And what happened ?? http://news.wfsu.org/post/alimony-reform-supporters-shocked-veto-say-theyll-be-back-another-bill

So a man paying a woman alimony for life.. Social justice... in reverse.. That cant happen..

Equality.. Gotcha..

NOTE :: I have no special issue with alimony, its just one of so many ways in which modern feminism doesnt want equality, its wants all the easy options and none of the hardships, otherwise

I'm not sure what you are trying to say exactly. Family law is quite complex and as you know (I think) each state is independent and follows their own tune. Each case is different and each judge has some leeway and discretion. Laws need time to change.

Are you saying that women are to blame because if there is one thing that is unfair, we WANT it that way? When a case seems to benefit the woman more, you say "SEE what about equality?" " Where is your Feminism now?"

That is pretty juvenile and doesn't show an understanding of how the laws and legislation works in the US. It also doesn't show an understanding of who is in power for the most part and making those laws. If we women controlled things, don't you think we would gotten a law passed requiring equal pay by now?

Maybe half the legislature would be women by now? Maybe half the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies would be women by now?

If you hand me a family law case I can go through it and give you a logical/reasonable explanation, based on the laws of that state, of whatever happened in that particular case. But you really can't just look at these articles and make some judgements. In some cases alimony for life is appropriate. That would be for long term marriages and the term of the remaining life wouldn't be as long as you might expect. You don't marry someone for 5 years and then pay them for life! That doesn't happen.

Paul Catton · January 18, 2017

40 minutes ago, amykat said:

I knew you would leave things out ..I wasn't even going to read it and just write for myself what I assumed was the cause ..you know I do read and know a few things like I tried to you days ago:

The reason? Die-hard gender roles, a bitter fight from breadwinning wives and macho pride, say family attorneys. And in some parts of the country, judges are flat-out sexist.

"Gender equality is a relatively new concept in the span of history, and old stereotypes die hard," says San Francisco Bay area divorce attorney Mark Ressa. "A successful man is considered a breadwinning man, and asking for alimony is considered emasculating."

I didn't even bother reading past there. Gender roles and SEXISM works both ways sometimes men!! You want equality go talk to that judge. The one who also thinks he isn't sexist.

You have personally attacked me, but as an egalitarian who has provided third party links with citations, to a defensible position. You lose and bad form.

Reinforcing feminism rhetoric is not the bridge to any divisiveness between genders, go reflect.

Sorry to hear about your experiences in life to date, mine could be similar if we continue with perpetual victimisation.

Hopefully you are reading this, yet within in that space of time to this point numerous innocent children have died.

Men as a "gender" do not control the world.

Civil oppression and governmental control extends way beyond my pay grade.

beachproperty · January 18, 2017

As an Attorney in Calif. for over 30 years (Litigation and family law) I could get in this debate as to who fairs better ...the man or the women....but then I would become your "intellectual whore". Not quite ready for that.

Kevbo · January 18, 2017

You appear to have an inflated opinion of yourself, a large number of men have moved to Thailand to escape your thinly veiled brand of feminism !

Khon Kaen Dave · January 18, 2017

Amykat.

Further to your post.Yes i would say this to any man,and i can assure you that i am a big boy.Where i was born and raised you learned to run before you could walk.No one scares me my friend,and i have had to learn the hard way.My mum and dad never had a lot of money in the old days,and the streets were my playground.I learned when it was best to keep my tongue between my teeth.But i prefer to be nice before being nasty,but it is my experience that you just cannot be nice to some people.But we are are all impotent because this is an anonymous forum,and what you read is just words on a screen.And as a moderator once told me,this is a family forum,so in this case,not a big boys one.

Khon Kaen Dave · January 18, 2017

Folk Guitar.

My wife was an absolute nightmare.She was a violent drunk who abused my daughter and me.When i divorced her,i got full custody,care and control of her,with no visitation rights for her. I brought up my daughter for 13 years,from when she was 6.I was both mum and dad.There were times when i didnt know where my next mortgage payment was coming from,and i knocked my head against the wall more times than i could count.My ex married again and a few years later her husband murdered her.It was in the national newspapers for some time. It was a violent and grisly death for her.I used to warn her years before that she would die young,she would either die from being so pissed that she would get knocked over by a bus or someone would kill her.i wish i had kept mu mouth shut.This is no lie because its Google available. My girl has grown into a wonderful woman.She is a fire woman,she speaks French and Spanish,and she passed her stage 3 sign language.She has just given birth to a baby boy and is the star in my sometimes dark sky. I know that judges nearly always like to give the child to the mother,but she had no chance.She was never a mother she was a violent,nasty bitch.In this case She lost literally everything,including her life.She was 37.I think i have served my apprenticeship.

FolkGuitar · January 18, 2017

6 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Folk Guitar.

My wife was an absolute nightmare......................snipped for brevity only.................She was 37.I think i have served my apprenticeship.

A sad tale indeed, and I'm sorry that you and your daughter had to endure it. I'm glad to hear that both of you came out of the situation and were able to overcome the emotional roller coaster it mush have been. No doubt this sort of situation does exist... but it's certainly not the norm, is it? There are extremes on all sides. My guess (and it's only that,) is that given a room full of divorced families, we'd find FAR more children in the custody of the mothers. And in many cases, deservedly so. But not all. And THAT is the problem.

Khon Kaen Dave · January 18, 2017

FolkGuitar

Correct,my string plucking pal,but i would hate to think what would have become of my daughter if her (Cant bring myself to say mother)birth parent had got the verdict in her favour.'Nuff said.

amykat · January 18, 2017

1 hour ago, Paul Catton said:

You have personally attacked me, but as an egalitarian who has provided third party links with citations, to a defensible position. You lose and bad form.

Reinforcing feminism rhetoric is not the bridge to any divisiveness between genders, go reflect.

Sorry to hear about your experiences in life to date, mine could be similar if we continue with perpetual victimisation.

Hopefully you are reading this, yet within in that space of time to this point numerous innocent children have died.

Men as a "gender" do not control the world.

Civil oppression and governmental control extends way beyond my pay grade.

I'm sorry, I am not aware of where I personally attacked you. This quote of mine you had above was not to you that was to LivinginLOS, first of all. The other things I wrote where I addressed you, I attacked the validity and credibility of the source you were using for reference material and I believe that is fair game. That is what we are here for. I explained that as well when I did it. A personal attack would be calling you names for example.

Thank you for saying you are sorry to hear about my experiences ..I am sorry too about yours. I am fine and don't harbor any resentment about that.

LarryBird · January 18, 2017

Sigh, I agree with Folkguitar.

In the States and other western countries, the lopsidedness of the divorce settlements in favor of women will have repercussions. Men will just stop marrying and procreating..

wealthychef · January 18, 2017

9 hours ago, amykat said:

I wish people would stop doing this ...I am not the OP ..I wrote to you ...but I am not the OP.

In that case, I apologize to the OP for thinking they wrote what you wrote. The original post was certainly less politically correct and presumptuous than yours was in my view.

true blue · January 18, 2017

7 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

To the contrary. I spotted a Farang woman around lunch time and said 'Hello', with some very light conversation.

I didn't reach intellectual orgasm though, so will have to try again tonight.

Your such a macho man

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