Do you consider Chiang Mai as your permanent home?

[connda]

4 hours ago, NancyL said:

So what do they call they Japanese guy who married a local lady, Kon Yipon, right?  But what if someone from the Middle East, India or Pakistan marries a local lady and comes to live in the village?  You'll find the locals won't bother to learn the nationality of the gentleman, any more than they bothered to learn yours, but instead will use a term just as derogatory as farang to describe him.

 

Whenever a Thai person refers to me as "farang", I gently point out that I'm "kon American".  Many Thai people take the time to learn the nationality of fellow Asians, they don't bother to sort it out with westerners.  In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face.  Others know it isn't polite.

 

However, the point of my comment was that I don't like to respond to posts from someone who doesn't understand this distinction and insists on calling himself "farang".  But, I made an exception with this thread because I was specifically mentioned in the OP.

 

I'm not going to get into a discussion about where the unsavory term "farang" is an insult, polite or not.

Thank you for your service to the expat community here in Chiang Mai via CMEC and Lanna Care Net.  Enjoy Borneo and try not to get upset at what the locals will be calling you there!  Best to 'swim with the stream' than to attempt to 'push the river.'    Best of luck!

[connda]

6 hours ago, NancyL said:

So what do they call they Japanese guy who married a local lady, Kon Yipon, right?  But what if someone from the Middle East, India or Pakistan marries a local lady and comes to live in the village?  You'll find the locals won't bother to learn the nationality of the gentleman, any more than they bothered to learn yours, but instead will use a term just as derogatory as farang to describe him.

 

Whenever a Thai person refers to me as "farang", I gently point out that I'm "kon American".  Many Thai people take the time to learn the nationality of fellow Asians, they don't bother to sort it out with westerners.  In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face.  Others know it isn't polite.

 

However, the point of my comment was that I don't like to respond to posts from someone who doesn't understand this distinction and insists on calling himself "farang".  But, I made an exception with this thread because I was specifically mentioned in the OP.

 

I'm not going to get into a discussion about where the unsavory term "farang" is an insult, polite or not.

"In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face."

 

FYI, although we'd rather not admit it, but most of us have our own cultural bias which we are totally blind to.  On one hand you lambaste Thais for using a term you personally feel is 'distasteful' and then to go on to make a blanket assertion attributing unchecked use of cultural pejoratives to the under-class of Thai citizens.  Tsk. 

I can quite unequivocally tell you that the majority of my friends and acquaintance are not foreign expats living in Thailand, they are in fact few.  The vast majority of my friend and acquaintances are Thai nationals. And unlike you, all of my Thai native friends and acquaintances who are in the upper or middle socio-economic classes of Thai society have openly referred to myself and other Westerners of European decent as 'farang' - to my face! It is a term of reference,  just as the term 'kerk' is a term of reference for those of Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern decent, although 'kerk' is also used as a derogatory cultural pejorative by those who consider themselves as culturally superior.  It just is the way it is.  The degree to which the term is used as a term of reference as opposed to a derogatory cultural pejorative is based on cultural conditioning and social conditioning starting at a young age, and varies widely across generations, geographical location, and class structure. 
Perhaps those Thais who you personally associate with are being polite.  You don't speak the language with any fluency (do you?), nor do you have close family ties to native Thais (my ties to my extended Thai family spans four generations still living), so my guess is that you miss much of the content, especially subtle content, of conversations being spoken in native Thai.  What you hear is what you are meant to hear, i.e.,  the English content that is toned-down in your presence in order not to offend you nor to have the speaker lose face. 

 

I live smack dab in the middle of a rural Thai community (where there are literally no foreigners)  that at face value looks to be comprised of "lower class and uneducated Thai people", but in fact is a microcosm of many classes of Thais who do associate together in their rather strict, patronistic, hierarchical  structure.  You may really understand the expat communities and their interconnection with the Thai authorities that you deal with to the point where you are a defacto expert, and most of us who know you respect you for it!!!  But I have to posit that the overtly biased statement that you made (that you highlighted) shows your lack of understanding of Thai culture at the level I and others are living it.  As we'd say in the military, "We're living in the s**t."  And unless you live 'in the s**t' you're only guessing at what the culture is like at a deeply personal level.*

*This is why a minority of us will spend our lives here, and the rest will eventually leave.

 

Be careful and trend lightly with your own home-grown biases, especially in the region of the world where you're planning to live.  I respect you, I care for you, and I truly wish you the best!  My critique is an offering of self-awareness and an admonition to watch your ingrained American biases, the ones you don't think you have, in what can be a unpredictable world where those in other countries, cultures, and socio-economic classes will not share your views nor do they accept American (or Western) exceptionalism.

Edited February 12, 2017 by connda

[CMHomeboy78]

14 minutes ago, connda said:

"In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face."

 

FYI, although we'd rather not admit it, but most of us have our own cultural bias which we are totally blind to.  On one hand you lambaste Thais for using a term you personally feel is 'distasteful' and then to go on to make a blanket assertion attributing unchecked use of cultural pejoratives to the under-class of Thai citizens.  Tsk. 
I can quite unequivocally tell you that the majority of my friends and acquaintance are not foreign expats living in Thailand, they are in fact few.  The vast majority of my friend and aquaintences are Thai nationals. And unlike you, all of my Thai native friends and acquaintances who are in the upper or middle socio-economic classes of Thai society have openly referred to myself and other Westerners of European decent as 'farang' - to my face! It is a term of reference,  just as the term 'kerk' is a term of reference for those of Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern decent, although 'kerk' is also used as a derogatory cultural pejorative by those who consider themselves as culturally superior.  It just is the way it is.
Perhaps those who you associate with are being polite.  You don't speak the language with any fluency (do you?), nor do you have close family ties to native Thais (my ties to my extended Thai family spans four generations still living), so my guess is that you miss much of the content, especially subtle content, of conversations being spoken in native Thai.  What you hear is what you are meant to hear, i.e.,  the English content that is toned-down in your presence in order not to offend you nor to have the speaker lose face. 

 

I live smack dab in the middle of a rural Thai community (where there are literally no foreigners)  that at face value looks to be comprised of "lower class and uneducated Thai people", but in fact is a microcosm of many classes of Thais who do associate together in their rather strict, patronistic, hierarchical  structure.  You may really understand the expat communities and their interconnection with the Thai authorities that you deal with to the point where you are a defacto expert, and most of us who know you respect you for it!!!  But I have to posit that the overtly biased statement that you made (that you highlighted) shows your lack of understanding of Thai culture at the level I and others are living it.  As we'd say in the military, "We're living in the s**t."  And unless you live 'in the s**t' you're only guessing at what the culture is like at a deeply personal level. 
*This is why a minority of us stay, and the rest will eventually leave.

Be careful and trend lightly with your own home-grown biases, especially in the region of the world where you're planning to live.  I respect you, I care for you, and I truly wish you the best!  My critique is an offering of self-awareness and an admonition to watch your ingrained American biases, the ones you don't think you have, in what can be a unpredictable world were whose in other countries, cultures, and socio-economic classes will not share your views nor do they accept American (or Western) exceptionalism.

Excellent post that should put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

Anyone who has lived among Thais for any length of time would agree with you.

[connda]

5 minutes ago, CMHomeboy78 said:

Excellent post that should put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

Anyone who has lived among Thais for any length of time would agree with you.

My point exactly.

[Bill97]

"In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face."
 
FYI, although we'd rather not admit it, but most of us have our own cultural bias which we are totally blind to.  On one hand you lambaste Thais for using a term you personally feel is 'distasteful' and then to go on to make a blanket assertion attributing unchecked use of cultural pejoratives to the under-class of Thai citizens.  Tsk. 

I can quite unequivocally tell you that the majority of my friends and acquaintance are not foreign expats living in Thailand, they are in fact few.  The vast majority of my friend and acquaintances are Thai nationals. And unlike you, all of my Thai native friends and acquaintances who are in the upper or middle socio-economic classes of Thai society have openly referred to myself and other Westerners of European decent as 'farang' - to my face! It is a term of reference,  just as the term 'kerk' is a term of reference for those of Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern decent, although 'kerk' is also used as a derogatory cultural pejorative by those who consider themselves as culturally superior.  It just is the way it is.  The degree to which the term is used as a term of reference as opposed to a derogatory cultural pejorative is based on cultural conditioning and social conditioning starting at a young age, and varies widely across generations, geographical location, and class structure. 
Perhaps those Thais who you personally associate with are being polite.  You don't speak the language with any fluency (do you?), nor do you have close family ties to native Thais (my ties to my extended Thai family spans four generations still living), so my guess is that you miss much of the content, especially subtle content, of conversations being spoken in native Thai.  What you hear is what you are meant to hear, i.e.,  the English content that is toned-down in your presence in order not to offend you nor to have the speaker lose face. 
 
I live smack dab in the middle of a rural Thai community (where there are literally no foreigners)  that at face value looks to be comprised of "lower class and uneducated Thai people", but in fact is a microcosm of many classes of Thais who do associate together in their rather strict, patronistic, hierarchical  structure.  You may really understand the expat communities and their interconnection with the Thai authorities that you deal with to the point where you are a defacto expert, and most of us who know you respect you for it!!!  But I have to posit that the overtly biased statement that you made (that you highlighted) shows your lack of understanding of Thai culture at the level I and others are living it.  As we'd say in the military, "We're living in the s**t."  And unless you live 'in the s**t' you're only guessing at what the culture is like at a deeply personal level.*

*This is why a minority of us will spend our lives here, and the rest will eventually leave.
 
Be careful and trend lightly with your own home-grown biases, especially in the region of the world where you're planning to live.  I respect you, I care for you, and I truly wish you the best!  My critique is an offering of self-awareness and an admonition to watch your ingrained American biases, the ones you don't think you have, in what can be a unpredictable world where those in other countries, cultures, and socio-economic classes will not share your views nor do they accept American (or Western) exceptionalism.

Unfortunately this will be read by many who can not see and heard by many without ears.

But I sincerely appreciate and respect your effort.

I do however not agree that confrontational approaches to Thai authority are an intelligent way to achieve results.

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, connda said:

"In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face."

 

FYI, although we'd rather not admit it, but most of us have our own cultural bias which we are totally blind to.  On one hand you lambaste Thais for using a term you personally feel is 'distasteful' and then to go on to make a blanket assertion attributing unchecked use of cultural pejoratives to the under-class of Thai citizens.  Tsk. 

I can quite unequivocally tell you that the majority of my friends and acquaintance are not foreign expats living in Thailand, they are in fact few.  The vast majority of my friend and acquaintances are Thai nationals. And unlike you, all of my Thai native friends and acquaintances who are in the upper or middle socio-economic classes of Thai society have openly referred to myself and other Westerners of European decent as 'farang' - to my face! It is a term of reference,  just as the term 'kerk' is a term of reference for those of Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern decent, although 'kerk' is also used as a derogatory cultural pejorative by those who consider themselves as culturally superior.  It just is the way it is.  The degree to which the term is used as a term of reference as opposed to a derogatory cultural pejorative is based on cultural conditioning and social conditioning starting at a young age, and varies widely across generations, geographical location, and class structure. 
Perhaps those Thais who you personally associate with are being polite.  You don't speak the language with any fluency (do you?), nor do you have close family ties to native Thais (my ties to my extended Thai family spans four generations still living), so my guess is that you miss much of the content, especially subtle content, of conversations being spoken in native Thai.  What you hear is what you are meant to hear, i.e.,  the English content that is toned-down in your presence in order not to offend you nor to have the speaker lose face. 

 

I live smack dab in the middle of a rural Thai community (where there are literally no foreigners)  that at face value looks to be comprised of "lower class and uneducated Thai people", but in fact is a microcosm of many classes of Thais who do associate together in their rather strict, patronistic, hierarchical  structure.  You may really understand the expat communities and their interconnection with the Thai authorities that you deal with to the point where you are a defacto expert, and most of us who know you respect you for it!!!  But I have to posit that the overtly biased statement that you made (that you highlighted) shows your lack of understanding of Thai culture at the level I and others are living it.  As we'd say in the military, "We're living in the s**t."  And unless you live 'in the s**t' you're only guessing at what the culture is like at a deeply personal level.*

*This is why a minority of us will spend our lives here, and the rest will eventually leave.

 

Be careful and trend lightly with your own home-grown biases, especially in the region of the world where you're planning to live.  I respect you, I care for you, and I truly wish you the best!  My critique is an offering of self-awareness and an admonition to watch your ingrained American biases, the ones you don't think you have, in what can be a unpredictable world where those in other countries, cultures, and socio-economic classes will not share your views nor do they accept American (or Western) exceptionalism.

Brilliant post ,love it.

 

I think the message you are conveying and please tell me if I`m wrong, is that many expats living in Thailand still have their western perspectives of what is derogatory and can`t come to terms with the Thai ways of thinking and how the Thais place different peoples into certain categories, especially the Americans. The term Farang to me is just a general way of describing a person of European descent. It only becomes offensive if it comes from Thais who know you. The Americans forget that in the not so distant past they described native Americans as red Indians, African Americans as Negros and American Jews as Hebrews that makes the word; Farang seem like a term of endearment in comparison. Then there were the really derogatory terms they used to describe people of certain races, the N word, orientals as chinks or gooks, Jews are kites and Irish as paddies. I have seen many posts on here where the posters are describing Thais as Somchais, but I don`t see anyone complaining about that.  

 

You are spot on, this is why it will only be the minority of us who are able to tolerate living in Thailand, because although the others may claim Thailand is a haven for them, they will never be able to completely separate themselves from their western ideals and never really fit in here because it becomes a huge culture shock for them and will never really be settled  in Thailand.

Edited February 12, 2017 by cyberfarang

[amexpat]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

they will never be able to completely separate themselves from their western ideals and never really fit in here because it becomes a huge culture shock for them and will never really be settled  in Thailand.

 

I came here partly because I couldn't separate myself from western ideals I grew up with.  Ideals like due process, free and fair elections, freedom of speech.  They may not exist here either but I don't feel betrayed by LOS.  Maybe I will never be settled anywhere but life is good here. 

Edited February 12, 2017 by amexpat
format

[LannaGuy]

18 hours ago, connda said:

"In my experience, it's only lower class and uneducated Thai people who refer to white people as "farangs" to their face."

 

FYI, although we'd rather not admit it, but most of us have our own cultural bias which we are totally blind to.  On one hand you lambaste Thais for using a term you personally feel is 'distasteful' and then to go on to make a blanket assertion attributing unchecked use of cultural pejoratives to the under-class of Thai citizens.  Tsk. 

I can quite unequivocally tell you that the majority of my friends and acquaintance are not foreign expats living in Thailand, they are in fact few.  The vast majority of my friend and acquaintances are Thai nationals. And unlike you, all of my Thai native friends and acquaintances who are in the upper or middle socio-economic classes of Thai society have openly referred to myself and other Westerners of European decent as 'farang' - to my face! It is a term of reference,  just as the term 'kerk' is a term of reference for those of Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern decent, although 'kerk' is also used as a derogatory cultural pejorative by those who consider themselves as culturally superior.  It just is the way it is.  The degree to which the term is used as a term of reference as opposed to a derogatory cultural pejorative is based on cultural conditioning and social conditioning starting at a young age, and varies widely across generations, geographical location, and class structure. 
Perhaps those Thais who you personally associate with are being polite.  You don't speak the language with any fluency (do you?), nor do you have close family ties to native Thais (my ties to my extended Thai family spans four generations still living), so my guess is that you miss much of the content, especially subtle content, of conversations being spoken in native Thai.  What you hear is what you are meant to hear, i.e.,  the English content that is toned-down in your presence in order not to offend you nor to have the speaker lose face. 

 

I live smack dab in the middle of a rural Thai community (where there are literally no foreigners)  that at face value looks to be comprised of "lower class and uneducated Thai people", but in fact is a microcosm of many classes of Thais who do associate together in their rather strict, patronistic, hierarchical  structure.  You may really understand the expat communities and their interconnection with the Thai authorities that you deal with to the point where you are a defacto expert, and most of us who know you respect you for it!!!  But I have to posit that the overtly biased statement that you made (that you highlighted) shows your lack of understanding of Thai culture at the level I and others are living it.  As we'd say in the military, "We're living in the s**t."  And unless you live 'in the s**t' you're only guessing at what the culture is like at a deeply personal level.*

*This is why a minority of us will spend our lives here, and the rest will eventually leave.

 

Be careful and trend lightly with your own home-grown biases, especially in the region of the world where you're planning to live.  I respect you, I care for you, and I truly wish you the best!  My critique is an offering of self-awareness and an admonition to watch your ingrained American biases, the ones you don't think you have, in what can be a unpredictable world where those in other countries, cultures, and socio-economic classes will not share your views nor do they accept American (or Western) exceptionalism.

Some good points but many of us do not wish to become pseudo-thais. Thais will never completely accept 'outsiders' and many of us have no wish to get ingrained in thai culture and wish to live here as 'farang' and enjoy the country. I, personally, have met a few farang who are more thai than the thais and are immensely proud of themselves but the fact is they will never BE thai in this life. Anyway whatever makes you happy and i could not care less they call me 'farang'  live and let live

Edited February 13, 2017 by LannaGuy

[LivinLOS]

On 2/11/2017 at 10:56 AM, sheriff221 said:

I stay here in Chiang Mai for 30 years, not go out from the country for 29 years this year, and I enjoy my life here with my thai wife, my son and his sister.

 

WOW !! You really have no interest in what the outside world is like for a 30 year period ?? 

 

I cannot imagine ever having that kind of mindset.

[LivinLOS]

On 2/11/2017 at 1:58 PM, cyberfarang said:

Wrong and right.

 

You don`t have to be resident for 6 months in the UK to receive NHS treatment. From the first day of return providing you can convince the NHS that you have returned to stay on a permanent basis, then you are entitled to free NHS treatment. And yes, the NHS service is abysmal and literally have to be almost dead before they`ll admit you into a hospital.  

 

My brother seriously damaged the internals of his knee.. CAT scans.. Multiple experts.. Wasnt just ACL/MCL rebuild it was highly unusual.. After a series of high quality referrals and second opinions he ended up under the care of a private bupa physician, one whose wall was decorated by letters and photographs of the 1st division footballers who he had worked on, the guy literally wrote the research papers on the rare and specialized injury which had occurred..

 

This Doc saw him and performed the operations and follow ups all on the NHS dime but in a private hospital (private room, menu for food, exceptional care).. My brother is needle phobic and the lengths the staff and anaesthetist went to, in order to mitigate and deal with this were above and beyond the call. 

 

Didnt cost him a penny and I cannot imagine any higher quality medical provision or experience at any price. 

[Scott]

A post with altered quotes has been removed.   Do not alter another members quote.  

[LivinLOS]

On 2/11/2017 at 2:57 PM, CMHomeboy78 said:

The term farang is not, and never has been, a racial insult.

There was no 'altering' of the text of the post I highlighted the part I was replying to.. Which specifically was 

 

"and never has been"

 

If you think that 'it never has been' you clearly havent been around much of Thailand.. Walk past a Patong tuktuk rank and listen to how the word is used... Almost interchangeably with how they use Keak.. I suppose we will now hear how keak is merely a term of endearment also ??  

 

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by LivinLOS

[CMHomeboy78]

10 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

There was no 'editing' of the text of the post I highlighted the part I was replying to.. Which specifically was 

 

"and never has been"

 

If you think that 'it never has been' you clearly havent been around much of Thailand.. Walk past a Patong tuktuk rank and listen to how the word is used... Almost interchangeably with how they use Keak.. I suppose we will now hear how keak is merely a term of endearment also ??  

 

 

Patong tuk-tuk drivers may have issues with farangs that makes the name ring foul.

That may be so, but it doesn't alter the fact that the term has been in continuous use for over five hundred years. If you think it was ever used in a derogatory sense then show me an historical source that uses it that way.

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

. I suppose we will now hear how keak is merely a term of endearment also ??  

 

 

I know a very beautiful Thai Yai lady named Keak.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, CMHomeboy78 said:

Patong tuk-tuk drivers may have issues with farangs that makes the name ring foul.

That may be so, but it doesn't alter the fact that the term has been in continuous use for over five hundred years. If you think it was ever used in a derogatory sense then show me an historical source that uses it that way.

My issue is the comment 'never has been'.. You have to have been living in dreamland to think that it isnt used, on many occasions, in a derogatory and offensive way.. 

[CMHomeboy78]

48 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

My issue is the comment 'never has been'.. You have to have been living in dreamland to think that it isnt used, on many occasions, in a derogatory and offensive way.. 

There have been several articulate posts on this thread that have convincingly refuted the claim that the word farang  is a racial insult.

Thais use it to describe Europeans and people of European descent.

When they want to be insulting they will combine it with other words to express their contempt.

I challenge you to find a credible historical reference that uses it as an insult.

 

[LivinLOS]

30 minutes ago, CMHomeboy78 said:

I challenge you to find a credible historical reference that uses it as an insult.

Street insults and bad mouthing rarely make scholarly historical refernces.. Anyone who has lived on Phuket for any length of time will have heard it (routinely) used as an insult and in derogatory terms and tones. 

Quote

When they want to be insulting they will combine it with other words to express their contempt.

 

 

'Oi you' are two I remember way to often.. 

[jonwilly]

Frang go buy a history book on Thailand. Comes from the word the Thais used for French back in 15-1600.

Er A Noun, never passed GCE English, a descriptive word for a 'Race'  'Caucasian'  and came into use as such.

Keak a not very nice Thai term for folk from the Sub Continent.

I have Thai friends who go to Vomit stations whenI say I am off for an Indian Curry.

I will suggest many Thais do not have a high opinion of Indian folk.

So Patpong, Tuk TuK drivers have now become the accepted standard for Thai culture.

Might as well go to Scouseland in UK for a Brainiak view.

 

john

[LannaGuy]

59 minutes ago, CMHomeboy78 said:

There have been several articulate posts on this thread that have convincingly refuted the claim that the word farang  is a racial insult.

Thais use it to describe Europeans and people of European descent.

When they want to be insulting they will combine it with other words to express their contempt.

I challenge you to find a credible historical reference that uses it as an insult.

 

All Thais refer to white people as “Farangs”, a derogatory word equivalent to the use of the term “white devils” by Chinese racists. The term is used by academics. It depicts difference. “We are Thais”, they say and think proudly. But they are Farangs.   Most Thais refer to anyone who looks Malay, Indian, Turkish or Arabic as “Kaak”. This is no different from Anglo-Saxon racists referring to “Wops”, “Spiks” or “Dagos”. The highly offensive word “Kaak” is also used to belittle the Muslim Malays of Patani.   The word farang may have either originated from the Hindi word firangi (Devanāgarī: फिरंगी, "foreign"), a derogatory term for Europeans that was coined during British colonial rule in India, or from the Persian word farang (فرنگ) or farangī (فرنگی), meaning "Frank, European". This in turn comes from the Old French word franc, meaning "Frank", a West Germanic tribe that became a major political power in Western and Central Europe during the early Middle Ages, and from which France derives its name.

 

It doesn't bother me if they call me 'farang' or not but it IS racist but I expect no more from a nationalistic, xenophobic country. Most Thais don't see it this way and mean it simply to depict westerners as stated. The world has gone PC CRAZY in the US you now say 'person of colour' instead of the obvious 'black'. Sticks and Stones.  

Edited February 13, 2017 by LannaGuy

[DeaconJohn]

Is the word "farang" an insulting term?

This ridiculous controversy simmers just below the surface of that stinking gumbo otherwise known as the expat community.

These people will be forever "outsiders" because they live like outsiders. Most of them can't speak the language with any degree of fluency and are functionally illiterate.

The "farang" question wouldn't even arise among those who live with Thais.

The experience of family life here is proof positive that Thais take care of their own - and that would include a farang who has lived among them for many years as a husband and father.

Family means everything in Thailand. Your position in the family defines who you are. Without one you are nobody.

Farang tao-nahn eng.

[partington]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

All Thais refer to white people as “Farangs”, a derogatory word equivalent to the use of the term “white devils” by Chinese racists. The term is used by academics. It depicts difference. “We are Thais”, they say and think proudly. But they are Farangs.   Most Thais refer to anyone who looks Malay, Indian, Turkish or Arabic as “Kaak”. This is no different from Anglo-Saxon racists referring to “Wops”, “Spiks” or “Dagos”. The highly offensive word “Kaak” is also used to belittle the Muslim Malays of Patani.   The word farang may have either originated from the Hindi word firangi (Devanāgarī: फिरंगी, "foreign"), a derogatory term for Europeans that was coined during British colonial rule in India, or from the Persian word farang (فرنگ) or farangī (فرنگی), meaning "Frank, European". This in turn comes from the Old French word franc, meaning "Frank", a West Germanic tribe that became a major political power in Western and Central Europe during the early Middle Ages, and from which France derives its name.

 

It doesn't bother me if they call me 'farang' or not but it IS racist but I expect no more from a nationalistic, xenophobic country. Most Thais don't see it this way and mean it simply to depict westerners as stated. The world has gone PC CRAZY in the US you now say 'person of colour' instead of the obvious 'black'. Sticks and Stones.  

This isn't correct. The fact that a word exists to identify a racial group does not make that word racist. 

 

To be racist the word itself must have a derogatory connotation within it, that is the word alone conveys dislike, disapproval or hatred. Farang does not. To conflate "white devil" with "farang " is obviously silly, since "devil" conveys a clear perjorative judgement, as does the word "kaek" (guest) for the ethnic groups you describe, because it means you don't belong here even if you are permanently historically settled -it says "we think you should go away".

 

Farang is neutral, it can be used neutrally (farangs all walk very fast!"), or as part of a racist comment "farangs all smell bad", but it does not on its own convey racism, merely racial identification.

 

Caucasian similarly is a racially derived description, but it is not racist.

 

 

[LannaGuy]

23 minutes ago, partington said:

This isn't correct. The fact that a word exists to identify a racial group does not make that word racist. 

 

To be racist the word itself must have a derogatory connotation within it, that is the word alone conveys dislike, disapproval or hatred. Farang does not. To conflate "white devil" with "farang " is obviously silly, since "devil" conveys a clear perjorative judgement, as does the word "kaek" (guest) for the ethnic groups you describe, because it means you don't belong here even if you are permanently historically settled -it says "we think you should go away".

 

Farang is neutral, it can be used neutrally (farangs all walk very fast!"), or as part of a racist comment "farangs all smell bad", but it does not on its own convey racism, merely racial identification.

 

Caucasian similarly is a racially derived description, but it is not racist.

 

 

The post was a combination from two sources - one Thai the other Wiki.  Many consider using skin colour as a reference for a person racist hence USA, largely, refers to 'people of colour' not 'black people'.

 

I made it clear  I found this way to PC and I call 'a spade a spade' (whoops am I allowed to say that?)

Edited February 13, 2017 by LannaGuy

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, DeaconJohn said:

Is the word "farang" an insulting term?

This ridiculous controversy simmers just below the surface of that stinking gumbo otherwise known as the expat community.

These people will be forever "outsiders" because they live like outsiders. Most of them can't speak the language with any degree of fluency and are functionally illiterate.

The "farang" question wouldn't even arise among those who live with Thais.

The experience of family life here is proof positive that Thais take care of their own - and that would include a farang who has lived among them for many years as a husband and father.

Family means everything in Thailand. Your position in the family defines who you are. Without one you are nobody.

Farang tao-nahn eng.

I agree 1 billion%. I know of some Farlangs that have been here 30 years or more, can`t speak a word of Thai, have no interest in learning how to speak Thai. They live in their own comfort zones and rarely interact with Thais. Most are here because it`s cheap and remain cocooned in their own worlds. Many will remain in the inner city where they have access to western style restaurants and amenities. These people would never fit in or be able to adapt to living in the rural areas among local village Thai people or if they do will not become a part of the community where they live and most often rarely seen.

[JaseTheBass]

Frang go buy a history book on Thailand. Comes from the word the Thais used for French back in 15-1600.
Er A Noun, never passed GCE English, a descriptive word for a 'Race'  'Caucasian'  and came into use as such.
Keak a not very nice Thai term for folk from the Sub Continent.
I have Thai friends who go to Vomit stations whenI say I am off for an Indian Curry.
I will suggest many Thais do not have a high opinion of Indian folk.
So Patpong, Tuk TuK drivers have now become the accepted standard for Thai culture.
Might as well go to Scouseland in UK for a Brainiak view.
 
john

Strange when you consider that Thais are basically 50/50 Indian/Chinese.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Yes.

[opalred]

i would prefer  being called a faland 

then a ass hole

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

Is the word "farang" an insulting term?

This ridiculous controversy simmers just below the surface of that stinking gumbo otherwise known as the expat community.

These people will be forever "outsiders" because they live like outsiders. Most of them can't speak the language with any degree of fluency and are functionally illiterate.

The "farang" question wouldn't even arise among those who live with Thais.

 

I would say those who deny the obvious, havent lived around Thais in Phuket or Pattaya.. 

[rijb]

1 hour ago, JaseTheBass said:

 

Strange when you consider that Thais are basically 50/50 Indian/Chinese.

 

 

[Bill97]

Strange when you consider that Thais are basically 50/50 Indian/Chinese.

And the Buddha was Thai of course.

[Scott]

14 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

There was no 'altering' of the text of the post I highlighted the part I was replying to.. Which specifically was 

 

"and never has been"

 

<snipped>

 

 

Yes, you did alter the quote and this is the rule:

 

2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

 

Here's a link to the rules and the netiquette:   http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/terms/