Jogging for the first time in 40 years - sheer torture!

[cornishcarlos]

Like I said, just mix it up and eat healthy.

I'm 2 standard deviations higher on the happy scale than most :)

[Acharn]

On 3/10/2017 at 4:28 PM, paulsingle said:

Running is too uncomfortable for me. I'm 59 years old, 5'8" and 102 kg. Most people guess my weight to be about 10kgs less so I carry it well.

I'm fit enough to play an hour of squash or badminton and I love cycling and swimming. 2km swim in under an hour or 40km cycle ride in under 2 hours. 

I have running shoes which I got from a running shop after running on the machine to analyse my gait.

I was 10kgs lighter when I got the shoes and could manage a 5km run albeit in 30 minutes. 

If I run now I believe I am very likely to damage my knees. 

If I lost 10kgs I then running would be a good thing but I'm not motivated enough to make the sacrifices to lose the weight.

I love cycling around Phuket and have found a great 25 metre pool as well as great beaches for swimming. 

Hey, 5 km in thirty minutes is something of an achievement. Back in 1976, when I was starting to try to rebuild my fitness, the (U.S,) Army Surgeon General announced that the best exercise, for the time spent on it, was running three miles (5 km) in under thirty minutes. I had almost reached that level when I got reassigned to Germany.

[tropo]

6 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

Like I said, just mix it up and eat healthy.

I'm 2 standard deviations higher on the happy scale than most :)

 

 "Eat healthy" is more difficult to define than good exercise strategy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Senechal]

Running isn't the best thing in the world for joints when you get older. Muscle pain is one thing. But if you're feeling joint pain / knee pain / back pain, etc... then it's time to mix it up.

 

I used to run a lot when I was younger... Now, not so much.

 

If you go to a gym, do some cross-training / elliptical trainers. That will save your joints from impact injury and still give you a full body workout.

 

Or if you typically jog outdoors and work out at home, invest in a TRX for a couple thousand baht and do that a little every day.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Senechal

[Aforek]

Practice activity regularly is very good for the health ; the case of Gerard052 ( exceptional , I think ), makes me think ( here he is a cyclist , not a jogger, but cycling is also very good ) of Robert Marchand, 105 years old ( look at the video ) who has also all his head, he speaks very well , just a little bit deaf ( 22 kms 547 in one  hour, world record )

ps : look on Youtube

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Aforek

[bandito]

12 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Practice activity regularly is very good for the health ; the case of Gerard052 ( exceptional , I think ), makes me think ( here he is a cyclist , not a jogger, but cycling is also very good ) of Robert Marchand, 105 years old ( look at the video ) who has also all his head, he speaks very well , just a little bit deaf ( 22 kms 547 in one  hour, world record )

ps : look on Youtube

 

 

He started at 68 years of age, goes to bed at 2100hrs and wakes up at 0600 hrs.

Eats lots of fruit and meat and exercises every day plus cykling.

He said he doesn't have or made any plans for the future.

[tropo]

8 hours ago, Senechal said:

Running isn't the best thing in the world for joints when you get older. Muscle pain is one thing. But if you're feeling joint pain / knee pain / back pain, etc... then it's time to mix it up.

 

I used to run a lot when I was younger... Now, not so much.

 

If you go to a gym, do some cross-training / elliptical trainers. That will save your joints from impact injury and still give you a full body workout.

 

Or if you typically jog outdoors and work out at home, invest in a TRX for a couple thousand baht and do that a little every day.

 

 

 

2

I used to train the muscles only when young (i.e. paid little attention to joints until they hurt). Now I train the muscles within the restraints of joint health. Few injuries are muscle injuries. Most are ligament, tendon and cartilage injuries. You can hit a muscle hard every 48 - 72 hours. Joints need longer to recover.  

 

If I'd been more aware of joint health as a youngster I'd be way healthier and stronger now.

Edited March 14, 2017 by tropo

[tropo]

6 hours ago, Aforek said:

Practice activity regularly is very good for the health ; the case of Gerard052 ( exceptional , I think ), makes me think ( here he is a cyclist , not a jogger, but cycling is also very good ) of Robert Marchand, 105 years old ( look at the video ) who has also all his head, he speaks very well , just a little bit deaf ( 22 kms 547 in one  hour, world record )

ps : look on Youtube

 

 

 

 

I take my hat off to this lucky guy, but one guy making it through to 105 years doesn't tell us much at all. You'll find stories about people who drank and smoked all their whole lives who made it into their 90's.

 

Cycling is probably not good for the knees either if taken to excess. It's probably better for heavy people than jogging though as your body weight is supported on the seat. I was a very enthusiastic cyclist most of my life and later on hit the indoor machines very hard and I feel it has contributed to my knee OA. Now cycling bothers my knee more than most other cardio movements. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by tropo

[smutcakes]

Simon just keep at it, it will get easier. I have always been fairly active and played a lot of sport, but recently decided to add some running into my exercise. At first like you i really struggled, not quite being out of breath after 100m, but definitely not being able to put a decent amount of distance at a decent pace when compared to what the internet tells you  are' average' 'good' etc times.

 

Due to my work i tend to use the treadmill more than running outside and countered this by alternating my incline between 1 & 2, whatever degree of incline this is.

 

Within a month of pushing myself and refusing to give up when my brain was telling me to on the running machine, i went from doing about 7km in 38 mins to being able to do 12KM in under an hour with the incline. It is amazing how quickly you picked up fitness and were able to do distances and times that you would not have been able to contemplate on those first few times.

 

It sounds like you are generally quite fit, so the not enjoying it is probably more to do with just using the muscles etc and different intensity and a different or quicker action than you are used to.

 

Just keep it up and push on when you want to stop (providing you dont feel ill) it will get easier, and i have found it is easy to become quite addicted to running, contrary to what i would of believed when i started.

[Andrew Dwyer]

[mommysboy]

39 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Simon just keep at it, it will get easier. I have always been fairly active and played a lot of sport, but recently decided to add some running into my exercise. At first like you i really struggled, not quite being out of breath after 100m, but definitely not being able to put a decent amount of distance at a decent pace when compared to what the internet tells you  are' average' 'good' etc times.

 

Due to my work i tend to use the treadmill more than running outside and countered this by alternating my incline between 1 & 2, whatever degree of incline this is.

 

Within a month of pushing myself and refusing to give up when my brain was telling me to on the running machine, i went from doing about 7km in 38 mins to being able to do 12KM in under an hour with the incline. It is amazing how quickly you picked up fitness and were able to do distances and times that you would not have been able to contemplate on those first few times.

 

It sounds like you are generally quite fit, so the not enjoying it is probably more to do with just using the muscles etc and different intensity and a different or quicker action than you are used to.

 

Just keep it up and push on when you want to stop (providing you dont feel ill) it will get easier, and i have found it is easy to become quite addicted to running, contrary to what i would of believed when i started.

 

I don't agree with this approach to be honest, because you are putting your body under quite a strain. Can't be much fun.

 

Could also be dangerous with older people.

[tropo]

40 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

 

Not signed in

 

Not signed in

To just a regular human being in 2012:

 

(has also had heart surgery)

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by tropo

[mommysboy]

58 minutes ago, tropo said:

I take my hat off to this lucky guy, but one guy making it through to 105 years doesn't tell us much at all. You'll find stories about people who drank and smoked all their whole lives who made it into their 90's.

 

Cycling is probably not good for the knees either if taken to excess. It's probably better for heavy people than jogging though as your body weight is supported on the seat. I was a very enthusiastic cyclist most of my life and later on hit the indoor machines very hard and I feel it has contributed to my knee OA. Now cycling bothers my knee more than most other cardio movements. 

 

Yes, I'm a bit wary when shining examples are produced.  It's great- of course it is.  But whilst exceptions exist, they are not the rule.  I could by contrast point to all the average people that have fallen foul of injury, some of them knee injuries during their twenties, granted through football.  Knees seem to be a particularly troublesome joint.

[tropo]

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

I don't agree with this approach to be honest, because you are putting your body under quite a strain. Can't be much fun.

 

Could also be dangerous with older people.

 

I agree with you. This "no pain - no gain" attitude is very dangerous and more often than not counterproductive.

 

A more gentle approach is best. He's not going to compete in any competitions.

[cornishcarlos]

37 minutes ago, tropo said:

I agree with you. This "no pain - no gain" attitude is very dangerous and more often than not counterproductive.

 

A more gentle approach is best. He's not going to compete in any competitions.

 

After a few months he may decide to compete, he's not an old man :)

[tropo]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

After a few months he may decide to compete, he's not an old man :)

 

 

You're never too old to compete:

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by tropo

[simon43]

Just an update to this thread.  I've swapped jogging outside to jogging on the treadmill in the gym.  This seems far less 'traumatic' for me.  I'm now going to the gym a few times a week, following an upper-body routine (my legs are fine from my daily cycling). In the gym I also do some elliptical training and the walking + jogging on the treadmill.  Then finish off in the swimming pool.  My gym trainer says that he is very surprised at my stamina for such an old guy!

 

I also continue the home exercise programme which is slowly ramping up.  The only exercise that I cannot do is the push up and then twist while stretching one arm upwards.  I have rotator cuff injuries in both arms, so have to take a little care not to move my arms suddenly to the side, otherwise there is either a loud popping sound or excrutiating agony for a second in my shoulder joint!

 

My diet is now tomato juice and muesli for breakfast, a homemade salad with probiotic yogurt for lunch with fruit, and then some lean chicken for dinner with more fruit.  Plus lots of water and organic green tea throughout the day.

 

With this regime, my weight remains unchanged (no problem), and I can see see some slight but visible reduction in my beer gut.  My own estimate is that it will take maybe a year to get this fat off, because although my BMI is well within normal range, and I don't have a huge amount of fat,  the rate of fat reduction is extremely slow, in spite of diet, cycling, exercise and gym.

 

But I have time in my life to get there in the end :)

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Just an update to this thread.  I've swapped jogging outside to jogging on the treadmill in the gym.  This seems far less 'traumatic' for me.  I'm now going to the gym a few times a week, following an upper-body routine (my legs are fine from my daily cycling). In the gym I also do some elliptical training and the walking + jogging on the treadmill.  Then finish off in the swimming pool.  My gym trainer says that he is very surprised at my stamina for such an old guy!

 

I also continue the home exercise programme which is slowly ramping up.  The only exercise that I cannot do is the push up and then twist while stretching one arm upwards.  I have rotator cuff injuries in both arms, so have to take a little care not to move my arms suddenly to the side, otherwise there is either a loud popping sound or excrutiating agony for a second in my shoulder joint!

 

My diet is now tomato juice and muesli for breakfast, a homemade salad with probiotic yogurt for lunch with fruit, and then some lean chicken for dinner with more fruit.  Plus lots of water and organic green tea throughout the day.

 

With this regime, my weight remains unchanged (no problem), and I can see see some slight but visible reduction in my beer gut.  My own estimate is that it will take maybe a year to get this fat off, because although my BMI is well within normal range, and I don't have a huge amount of fat,  the rate of fat reduction is extremely slow, in spite of diet, cycling, exercise and gym.

 

But I have time in my life to get there in the end :)

7

Judging on what you personal trainer said about you "for such an old guy", you may not have all that much time left. LOL

 

I have no idea what you mean by "push up and then twist while stretching one arm upwards", but it certainly sounds like a dumbass exercise and not something you should be doing. I remember in a previous post you mentioned something about a one-arm pushup. One arm pushups are a ridiculous exercise and an invitation for injury even if you aren't. On a flat pushup you're pushing about 65 - 70% of your full bodyweight if you keep your torso in a plank position. That's about 50kg for you. Now you want to try that with one arm? That's like attempting to do 50kg DB bench presses with only one DB. 

[simon43]

I have no idea what you mean by "push up and then twist while stretching one arm upwards", but it certainly sounds like a dumbass exercise

 

Well, we are both in full agreement :)

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Well, we are both in full agreement :)

 

LOL> we don't need you feeling bad about not being able to do some dumbass exercise, do we? You were making excuses for not doing it. My shoulders are strong and in good condition, but that's easy to change if I do stupid things in the gym. The shoulder joint is used every time you work the upper body. If your shoulders are messed up you're severely limited in what you can do. That exercise seems like a shoulder killer, whatever it is.

[paulsingle]

By all means give consideration to the opinions expressed here and perhaps more so to your personal trainer but in the end listen to your body.

My experience is that low level aches and pains are inevitable with age. You just have to manage them. They shouldn't stop you exercising.

Sharp or significant pain you ignore at your peril.

[mommysboy]

13 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

By all means give consideration to the opinions expressed here and perhaps more so to your personal trainer but in the end listen to your body.

My experience is that low level aches and pains are inevitable with age. You just have to manage them. They shouldn't stop you exercising.

Sharp or significant pain you ignore at your peril.

Well, yes and no.  Its not always possible to tell the difference, or one progresses in to the other.

Edited March 14, 2017 by mommysboy

[tropo]

1 hour ago, paulsingle said:

By all means give consideration to the opinions expressed here and perhaps more so to your personal trainer but in the end listen to your body.

My experience is that low level aches and pains are inevitable with age. You just have to manage them. They shouldn't stop you exercising.

Sharp or significant pain you ignore at your peril.

 

It's tricky. Low-level aches can become significant and debilitating and are often warning signs. Always keep a close eye on them for signs of worsening. Often a different exercise or a different angle can eliminate the problem. I aim for pain-free training and have few aches. When I do get them, I immediately look for a solution, which most often means eliminating the exercise that causes the pain or lightening the load, or changing the rep structure.

 

Here's an example. The elbow and shoulders COULD hurt doing straight bar pulldowns and/or pullups (palms forward or reversed) because they put the elbows in a bad mechanical position. Switch to a neutral grip and the problem is usually solved.

 

Some other examples:

 

Straight bar curls hurt the elbows. Solution: switch to EZ curl bar.

 

Lying triceps extensions hurts the elbows. Solution: Don't do them. There are plenty of more joint friendly triceps isolation exercises.

 

Bench press kills the shoulders (rotator cuff). This is one of the most common injuries in weight training. Solution: Give up bench presses and find other pushing movements that allow the hands and shoulders to find a more natural position. For example, use DB's.

 

A lot of exercises hurt joints and should never be done. I could go through dozens of problematic exercises that cause undue stress on joints, but I think I've made my point.

 

[simon43]

Tropo, I agree with your comment about finding alternative exercises if there is an existing injury or weakness.  I'm well aware of what sometimes happens if I suddenly flex my arms out sideways - my shoulder joint definitely is not happy.  

 

Likewise, my trainer is also aware of these issues and so we take any new exercise routine that stresses the shoulder joints very slowly, to 'test the waters'.

 

I do get aches, but no pain and no long-term aches.  Mostly it is aching calf muscles when I'm cycling, but the ache goes away within some minutes after finishing my ride.

 

Everything is going well - going slowly, but going well :)

[simon43]

A quick update to this thread.

 

I'm on holiday in Pattaya for a few weeks.  I don't have my bicycle, so no morning cycling.  I have visited Tony's gym, but found the state and choice of the exercise equipment to be .. erhum ... somewhat 'lacking'.

 

So I started walking each early morning along the beach road, from my hotel on soi 13/2 and northwards to the dolphin roundabout, then turn back, jog a little, walk a little etc.

 

Anyway, after a week of this, I can jog about 1.5Km, followed by some fast walking.  I don't feel exhausted any more.

1.5Km maybe sounds not much, but it is a great improvement on a month ago.

 

I can't say that I find jogging fun, but there is plenty to see on the beach road as I jog along :)

[lopburi3]

10 minutes ago, simon43 said:

A quick update to this thread.

 

I'm on holiday in Pattaya for a few weeks.  I don't have my bicycle, so no morning cycling.  I have visited Tony's gym, but found the state and choice of the exercise equipment to be .. erhum ... somewhat 'lacking'.

 

So I started walking each early morning along the beach road, from my hotel on soi 13/2 and northwards to the dolphin roundabout, then turn back, jog a little, walk a little etc.

 

Anyway, after a week of this, I can jog about 1.5Km, followed by some fast walking.  I don't feel exhausted any more.

1.5Km maybe sounds not much, but it is a great improvement on a month ago.

 

I can't say that I find jogging fun, but there is plenty to see on the beach road as I jog along :)

Yes but you could probably see just as well walking?  Just be careful as older bones may not take well to the pounding that jobbing provides.  Jogging is an observer sport - one can appreciate watching ladies jog.

[simon43]

Just be careful as older bones may not take well to the pounding that jobbing provides. 

 

My training shoes have double cushioning insoles - the jogging is good cardio for me.  

 

I could walk and watch the ladies jog, but then walking will not keep up with them :)

[tominbkk]

On 3/14/2017 at 5:18 PM, tropo said:

I agree with you. This "no pain - no gain" attitude is very dangerous and more often than not counterproductive.

 

A more gentle approach is best. He's not going to compete in any competitions.

I much prefer quick walking, biking, or the elliptical machine, or swimming.  I see way too many guys at the park I go to who have both knees all taped up and are still running.  What's the point of doing that if you are ruining your knees?  That's why I like biking, it actually builds up your knees and it's just as aerobic if you do it right.

 

[simon43]

I see way too many guys at the park I go to who have both knees all taped up and are still running. 

 

I read all these comments about how my knees are going to suffer from jogging.  

 

Was man not 'designed' to run? Are knees a design fault?

 

I have done plenty of cycling over the years, which I'm sure has strengthened my knee joints.  I haven't done much running or jogging over those years, so no past injuries or excessive wear and tear on my knee joints.

 

My knees are fine, my bones are fine.  My heart is fine.  I have normal BP.  I do not have diabetes.  I do not subscribe to the idea of slowing down as you get older.  

 

Slowing down and taking it easy is one reason why you feel older!

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

Man was designed to last about 30 years and replace itself.  Our bones do age - often faster than our minds.