Chaos, confusion, confrontation and conning...Pattaya Immigration

[dbrenn]

33 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Which they pay handsomely for - but not special Immi rules.

If you can't answer my question, then please stop sniping and let someone answer who knows what he's talking about. Thanks. 

[garyk]

5 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I am saying that Thailand is a country that needs to overhaul their visa program. Mexico lets 

visitors into Mexico without a visa, for up to 6 months. You need a valid passport, and your money.

Mexico knows how much money the tourists are spending, and appreciates their visitors.

Thailand makes it very frusterating, with all the crappy 60 day visas for this amount, or a 90

day visa that is harder to obtain. If you want a longer visa, you have to show that you are

relatively rich. The new 10 visa rumour was only for the filthy rich who can afford to open

a 3 million baht ban, account that they cannot touch for a year. How nice  to be rich like that.

When most people spend 4 to 6 million baht on a house in their Thai wife's name, they do not have

that extra 3 million baht kicking around.  So yes I would say that Thailand is a back woods country

that has to advance into the 21 century. So in future I will make sure that my visa covers my entire stay

in the country so I do not need to see Bangkok's fancy immigration building and staff again.

Geezer

I have a retirement visa here. But, travel allot. I drove from my home in Texas threw Mexico into the Yucatan and stayed a month last year. 6 month when entering. A Pleasure after dealing with Thailand.

One of the main reasons I have never, and will never invest one penny here. Retirement laws, land owning laws, it is just a very poor place to invest in IMO. Short term is GREAT here. Just don't get caught up in the con's..

[Evilbaz]

9 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

If you can't answer my question, then please stop sniping and let someone answer who knows what he's talking about. Thanks. 

No special Immigration rules .

90 day reports, report to Immigration yearly, same TM30/28 rules where enforced.

[pee paub]

I finally did the TM30 chore for the first time yesterday at Jomtien. I'm on a Retirement Extension but travel in and out of Thailand regularly. I seemed to have avoided a fine by submitting the  form after my latest arrival. I suspect if I hadn't left the country before submitting the form, they would have checked back to my previous entry and fined me accordingly. Of the six or seven Russians ahead of me in line, I say only one paying a four hundred Baht fine. Paperwork-wise, I just used the Immigration SOP - got signed copies of house book, lease, house owner's id, lease holder's id, and the regular pp pages. And keep your sense of humour. All to report the same address I reported the day before at the airport.

[jimn]

All this rubbish about having to submit a TM30 everytime you come back to your home after leaving the country is just scaremongering. Today I did my 90 day report no issues at all at Jontien. Previously I arrived back in Thailand Oct 4th went out of the country on 1st Dec arriving back on December 9th. I have lived in my home since March 2014 and have never completed or been asked to complete a TM30 or a TM28

Edited March 3, 2017 by jimn

[Evilbaz]

1 minute ago, jimn said:

All this rubbish about having to submit a TM30 everytime you come back to your home after leaving the country is just scaremongering. Today I did my 90 day report no issues at all. Previously I arrived back in Thailand Oct 4th went out of the country on 1st Dec arriving back on December 9th. I have lived in my home since March 2014 and have never completed or been asked to complete a TM30 or a TM28

 

Depends on your designated Immi office obviously.

But the requirement is spreading - it's not rubbish but fact.

[Maestro]

...If the online system isn't working, how to the  hotels physically report the arrival of each guest within 24 hours?

Are you sure the online system for reporting the arrival of foreigners is not working for hotels?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Are you sure the online system for reporting the arrival of foreigners is not working for hotels?

It and online 90 day reporting since immigration's extranet was taken down. Link for it is here. https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

You will get this message "Navigation to the webpage was canceled".

Some immigration offices are having hotels and etc send them as a XLS file to a email address. This is from the Chonburi website. TM30_FORM.xls

 

[Maestro]

On 3/2/2017 at 6:17 AM, Destiny1990 said:

But if the landlord is abroad? or if he is in another city?or when he has simply no idea about his tenant movements then how he can report to immi?As i said its totally unworkable.

 

Forget about the "landlord". The English translation of the Immgration Act talks about house-master, possessor, owner, tenant, hotel manager.

 

Section 4 defines the house-master. If the owner is the possessor, ie himself lives in the residence, he is the housemaster. If the owner rents the residence out, then the tenant becomes the possessor and therefore is the house-master.

 

Section 30 says that the house-master, possessor or owner must notify the arrival of foreigners at the residence (submit the form TM.30). Some immigration offices interpret this to mean that if a tenant is the house-master but does not submit the TM.30 they are allowed to accept it from the owner even though he is not the house-master.

[Maestro]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It and online 90 day reporting since immigration's extranet was taken down. Link for it is here. https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

You will get this message "Navigation to the webpage was canceled".

Some immigration offices are having hotels and etc send them as a XLS file to a email address. This is from the Chonburi website. TM30_FORM.xls

 

 

Thank you. That's quite an inconvenience for hotels.

[zombie nights]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 0:04 PM, Lovethailandelite said:

Myself and others that have dealt with it have told you what the procedure is but everybody wants to chip in that hasn't even bothered to file one. There really is no point to replying anymore. If people don't want to do it and be here illegally by the law, that's fine but expect major issues at some time in the future with getting your extensions at Jomtien immigration.
That's me done. Over and out 

I hope that Lovethailandelite will continue to give us his valuable and helpful postings on this and other topics. It seems to me he is trying his utmost to be of assistance to other members here and deserves great credit for his input and experience.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by zombie nights

[juice777]

Is this going to effect me I rent a condo in jomiten. I know my agency registered me last year. And I have slip in the back of my passport. Since then I have left the country a few times on visa runs. Should I have done anything else?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[mommysboy]

I just don't know the rules I must admit.  It just seems to be random.  If I am seeing a pattern, it's that people who are registered with their immigration office at a particular fixed address seem not to be bothered by immigration.

 

Ultimately, it's quite wrong fining the foreigner, because it is the landlord/hotel owner who is responsible for reporting.  But, you know, this is Thailand.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

  If I am seeing a pattern, it's that people who are registered with their immigration office at a particular fixed address seem not to be bothered by immigration.

 

I think you may be right.

 

I did my 90-day reporting and got a re-entry permit this week. No one mentioned TM28/TM30/registrations at all and I have never done one.

 

I own my Jomtien condo and have lived in it for 5 years.

[Asiantravel]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I just don't know the rules I must admit.  It just seems to be random.  If I am seeing a pattern, it's that people who are registered with their immigration office at a particular fixed address seem not to be bothered by immigration.

 

Ultimately, it's quite wrong fining the foreigner, because it is the landlord/hotel owner who is responsible for reporting.  But, you know, this is Thailand.

Or deliberately opaque is another way that you could describe it. I had enough of reading thread after thread with one comment contradicting someone else's comment so yesterday I tried to get some definitive answers from the office in Jomtien  but the girl behind the counter wouldn't even give me enough time to finish my question before thrusting some papers  towards me that had no relevance to what I wanted to know before she quickly turned to serve the next 10 people.

Admittedly the place was like a zoo and the use of the word chaos in the OP's  headline is spot on.

[mommysboy]

Well it looks like theyve stirred up a right hornet's nest. I guess there are alternative destinations.  Way too interference and getting worse.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Asiantravel said:

Or deliberately opaque is another way that you could describe it. I had enough of reading thread after thread with one comment contradicting someone else's comment so yesterday I tried to get some definitive answers from the office in Jomtien  but the girl behind the counter wouldn't even give me enough time to finish my question before thrusting some papers  towards me that had no relevance to what I wanted to know before she quickly turned to serve the next 10 people.

Admittedly the place was like a zoo and the use of the word chaos in the OP's  headline is spot on.

By pass the front desk. Take the end office on your left hand side.

[Asiantravel]

38 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Well it looks like theyve stirred up a right hornet's nest. I guess there are alternative destinations.  Way too interference and getting worse.

I was in Vietnam last week and the week before which 23 years ago when I first went there just after communism ended it was  one of the most paranoid countries on earth then about foreigners visiting. (23 years ago the police even stopped my car and asked the driver why he was  carrying a foreigner!)

today immigration procedures in Vietnam are totally seamless and you don't see any of this  palaver that is going on in Thailand.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, Asiantravel said:

I was in Vietnam last week and the week before which 23 years ago when I first went there just after communism ended it was  one of the most paranoid countries on earth then about foreigners visiting. (23 years ago the police even stopped my car and asked the driver why he was  carrying a foreigner!)

today immigration procedures in Vietnam are totally seamless and you don't see any of this  palaver that is going on in Thailand.

Once the E visa system comes online I am sure things will be much better.

[Asiantravel]

11 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

By pass the front desk. Take the end office on your left hand side.

I put my head in there also and it was equally chaotic

Edited March 3, 2017 by Asiantravel

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Asiantravel said:

I put my head in there also and it was equally chaotic

As you know each desk there just does one particular job and asking say Desk 4 which is 90 day reports anything other than something about 90 day reports is a complete waste of time. Tuesday if there has been no holiday on Monday or Wednesday is a decent day to go and it's normally quiet. Friday and Monday is always busy due to the weekend.

[ross163103]

10 hours ago, zombie nights said:

I hope that Lovethailandelite will continue to give us his valuable and helpful postings on this and other topics. It seems to me he is trying his utmost to be of assistance to other members here and deserves great credit for his input and experience.

 

And also his patience to put up with all the naysayers that won't listen. Personally I'll go down there within 24 hrs upon arrival, if they take the form, great, if they tell me not to worry about it I won't. It's a hassle but maybe more of a hassle later when I try to renew my visa/extension of stay.

[Destiny1990]

Only workable solution is to present a online notification system.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, ross163103 said:

And also his patience to put up with all the naysayers that won't listen.

 

Maybe it is the naysayers who should be listened to, at least regarding their experiences in their own situation?

 

I went there this week. I got a re-entry permit and did my 90-day reporting. No one asked me for anything at all related to TM28s or TM30s or registration. I have never registered.

 

Now I dont know why this should be but I suspect that it has something to do with me being a home-owner rather that a tenant or guest.

[VBF]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It and online 90 day reporting since immigration's extranet was taken down. Link for it is here. https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

You will get this message "Navigation to the webpage was canceled".

Some immigration offices are having hotels and etc send them as a XLS file to a email address. This is from the Chonburi website. TM30_FORM.xls

 

I think that's what Jomtien is doing. I've asked the hotel  where I'm staying about this and apparently they are doing it. I've also asked them to give me a copy of the form showing my entry and will take it with me when i do the extension to my SETV. However, i will only present it to Immigration if they request it! IMO, no point in raising issues that may not exist....do you agree @ubonjoe ?

[AbeSurd]

59 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Now I dont know why this should be but I suspect that it has something to do with me being a home-owner rather that a tenant or guest.

My recent experience at Immigration is similar to yours but I rent (I'm a tenant).

 

I rent long-term. Years at the same address - the same address as on the last TM6 I filled out.

[KittenKong]

46 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

My recent experience at Immigration is similar to yours but I rent (I'm a tenant).

 

I rent long-term. Years at the same address - the same address as on the last TM6 I filled out.

 

Hmm. Maybe that's it then: I also put my full home address on my TM6. As I mentioned previously, putting ones address on the TM6 should count as "notifying the competent official" as it is a proper immigration document.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, AbeSurd said:

My recent experience at Immigration is similar to yours but I rent (I'm a tenant).

 

I rent long-term. Years at the same address - the same address as on the last TM6 I filled out.

 

33 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

Hmm. Maybe that's it then: I also put my full home address on my TM6. As I mentioned previously, putting ones address on the TM6 should count as "notifying the competent official" as it is a proper immigration document.

I think they are not asking for the TM30 from those that are on extensions of stay because don't consider a entry using re-entry permit as a new entry. It is a continuation of an entry you did long ago. If you were to change addresses then they would want one when you moved.

From what I have seen in this and other topics they are only wanting them from people that are entering with a visa of some kind.

[Lovethailandelite]

6 hours ago, ross163103 said:

And also his patience to put up with all the naysayers that won't listen. Personally I'll go down there within 24 hrs upon arrival, if they take the form, great, if they tell me not to worry about it I won't. It's a hassle but maybe more of a hassle later when I try to renew my visa/extension of stay.

Thanks for the posts from those that are interested. I wasn't by a long shot the first person to be fined but probably the first to do a detailed report on how it works at Jomtien.
If you intend to do your extension at Jomtien then you are doing the correct thing by getting your TM30 dealt with BEFORE you attempt your extension. 99.99% when you do your extension or request a Residency permit you will be picked up on the TM30. Yes, and I know some are not being asked but the vast majority certainly are. For a lot of people, particularly those that are renting it can then be a proper problem if you haven't got the correct paperwork. What you mustn't do is attempt to hand the TM30 in at the front reception.They will most likely wave you away as they have others. If you want to file it then insist on getting a ticket for the TM30 notifying office which is the far office on the left hand side as you enter. The front reception are only interested in issuing ticket numbers for whichever area you are wanting to deal with. They do not deal with paperwork other than taking a quick look...sometimes and issue the appropriate ticket. Mostly they will ask what you need to do and issue the appropriate are ticket anyway. The same when you do a 90 day report. That desk isn't interested in anything other than a 90 day report slip.
The only desks that seem to be interested in linking the TM30 is the overstay desk and the extension desks. That is how they pick up tourists, when they go in for a 30 day extension. I don't believe there is any will to go after tourists that have no need to deal with immigration as they have enough to deal with regarding those that are extending there stay.
Once again, it absolutely makes no difference if you are an owner, renting or staying in a hotel, it applies to YOU. If you need an extension or Residency permit, they will look for the TM30 99.99% of the time.I know people keep saying they did a 90 day report etc and no TM30 asked for, that's great but when they do get you and as I say, normally at extension time and you've left it late to do your extension and now you have a problem getting your landlord etc to do the TM30, you may well find yourself running out of time and need to resort to leaving the country and coming back in to start your process over again from scratch. I hate doing this TM30 report back to immigration every time I come and go as well as anybody else. It gives me no pleasure, trust me. I personally don't need to do extensions but I know people that do and some have had a real issue over getting the correct paperwork from there landlord. Now it appears Jomtien require the landlord to attend at the first TM30 first time of filing, so again the hastle has got worse. If my posts help someone to get an easier ride over this then that's great. Those that seem to have the need to deny or give misinformation that it's not actually required are not only kidding themselves but are causing problems for others that take notice of them.

[wpcoe]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

I think they are not asking for the TM30 from those that are on extensions of stay because don't consider a entry using re-entry permit as a new entry. It is a continuation of an entry you did long ago. If you were to change addresses then they would want one when you moved.

From what I have seen in this and other topics they are only wanting them from people that are entering with a visa of some kind.

That's a creative way of looking at it.  And, convoluted just enough that it probably is correct.