British PM May to reject Scottish referendum demand - Times newspaper

[Basil B]

19 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

On 16/03/2017 at 7:41 PM, Basil B said:

So how many Scott,s voted for Independence to rid Scotland of the EU tyranny??? 

 

500,000 is the figure being bandied around by media. To clarify: that is the number of people who voted for independence, and then voted for Brexit.  I don't know if this is true.  It would throw up some interesting permutations if there was to be a referendum any time soon.

 

looking at the results the most significant fact is that only 67% (2/3) of those eligible to vote in Scotland the Brexit bothered to vote compared with 85% (nearly 7/8) who voted in the Scottish Independence Referendum which proves the point that Scott's are more passionate about independence than the EU.

[mommysboy]

20 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

looking at the results the most significant fact is that only 67% (2/3) of those eligible to vote in Scotland the Brexit bothered to vote compared with 85% (nearly 7/8) who voted in the Scottish Independence Referendum which proves the point that Scott's are more passionate about independence than the EU.

 

Maybe, or understandably fed up with referendi.

 

Any particular Scott?  Bill or Harry?

[Basil B]

34 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Also why would Scotland want to pay to build a wall to keep Europeans  out of England and Wales

Europe may well cough up, or more probable insist on it along with all the other conditions they would impose on Scotland as terms to join the EU to prevent goods from all the countries that the UK has trade deals being smuggled into the EU via Scotland. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

500,000 is the figure being bandied around by media. To clarify: that is the number of people who voted for independence, and then voted for Brexit.  I don't know if this is true.  It would throw up some interesting permutations if there was to be a referendum any time soon.

According to this report, 36% of Brexit votes in Scotland came from SNP supporters. It didn't say how many of those surveyed had actually voted in the indepdennce referendum, but if we assume they all did then this amounts to 582k people. As you say, thepermutations are many  - I cannot imagine that the EU would be a dealbreaker for all those 582k, but possibly some

 

I would also imagine that there were plenty who voted No/Remain who now look to independence as a way to stay in Scotland/Europe. For example, 57% of those born outside the UK who voted in the Scottish referendum voted No. The total number of non-UK born residents in Scotland is about 507k, so I presume that most of that 57% will be more keenly thinking about switching vote - an possible extra 289k for Yes and a reduction of the same for No (assuming all voted previously).

Edited March 18, 2017 by RuamRudy

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Europe may well cough up, or more probable insist on it along with all the other conditions they would impose on Scotland as terms to join the EU to prevent goods from all the countries that the UK has trade deals being smuggled into the EU via Scotland. 

Whether Scotland leaves the UK or not, how do you see the NI/RoI border changing, if at all?

[citybiker]

Whether Scotland leaves the UK or not, how do you see the NI/RoI border changing, if at all?

IIRC the South doesn't want the North..

An open non-hard border suits all, and gives less headaches to Stormont.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[juice777]

I imagine the Scottish rugby team would have to drop BT as there sponsors to if they go. I seriously think the Scots should think twice about this madness.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[mommysboy]

When the wall is finished, we could get an international dignitary for the official opening: someone with an affinity for walls perhaps......

 

Nope, can't think of anyone at this juncture!

[juice777]

When the wall is finished, we could get an international dignitary for the official opening: someone with an affinity for walls perhaps......
 
Nope, can't think of anyone at this juncture!

Roger waters

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[RuamRudy]

Taken before NS and TM had their disagreement, but looking like the only Scottish parties showing growth are the two independence seeking parties. I wonder what changes we would see after the events of the last few days...

 

 

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Whether Scotland leaves the UK or not, how do you see the NI/RoI border changing, if at all?

I actually see a more justifiable cause in trying to unite Ireland as one economic entity by giving NI near Independence under the governance of both the UK and Eire so it could align monetary policies with the EU, therefore the Irish Sea would be the customs and immigration barrier.

 

Lot depends NI accepting greater unification with ROI with the UK having rites to protect the interests of the protestant communities.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Whether Scotland leaves the UK or not, how do you see the NI/RoI border changing, if at all?

 

I assume you are referring to the Common Travel Area between the RoI, the UK, the Channel islands and the Isle of Man.

 

British and Irish citizens, other EEA nationals and Swiss citizens can travel freely throughout the CTA. As long as they have some form of official photographic ID confirming their nationality. All others need their passport and, if necessary, the appropriate visa.

 

Of course, immigration checks on the land border between the RoI and Northern Ireland are few and far between, and the same if travelling from one part of the CTA to another by sea. So it is unlikely that someone who requires a visa and doesn't have one would be caught and prevented from travelling; unless they are attempting to do so by air. They would still be an illegal entrant, though.

 

The CTA has been in existence since 1923, so I think it's a fairly safe bet that it will remain post Brexit for British and Irish citizens.

 

Obviously, EEA and Swiss nationals would still have their freedom of movement rights in the RoI, but would probably need their passports, and maybe even a visa, to enter the UK; even from there.

 

Whether an independent Scotland would be part of the CTA is up to them. I doubt that neither the UK nor Irish government would wish to prevent it.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Taken before NS and TM had their disagreement, but looking like the only Scottish parties showing growth are the two independence seeking parties. I wonder what changes we would see after the events of the last few days...

 

 

I would say that unless UK becomes federalised, and UK Parliament is reformed to reflect weighting on countrywide issues , then the union has about 5 years left.

[3NUMBAS]

The jocks will be bankrupt in 6 months ..As oil is gone ..They have this exaggerated idea about their worth but just can't do the maths ...About how they will survive ..And who will bankroll their new currency???They just can't live with their monopoly money ..

[JAG]

The jocks will be bankrupt in 6 months ..As oil is gone ..They have this exaggerated idea about their worth but just can't do the maths ...About how they will survive ..And who will bankroll their new currency???They just can't live with their monopoly money ..

I seem to recall some discussion about this last time round. The resulting concensus was that they could survive, but unless they could find someone else to bankroll them it would be at the cost of significant tax hikes and some pretty stringent austerity measures. They certainly wouldn't be able to afford the level of welfare spending and state provision they enjoy at the moment.

[nontabury]

52 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

I seem to recall some discussion about this last time round. The resulting concensus was that they could survive, but unless they could find someone else to bankroll them it would be at the cost of significant tax hikes and some pretty stringent austerity measures. They certainly wouldn't be able to afford the level of welfare spending and state provision they enjoy at the moment.

 

And that was when oil was at 100$ a barrel,now less then half that. Though I'm sure the SNP supporters will deny its importance. It's as if 45% of the Scots are dilussional regarding Scotland's importance,similar to that held by most Thais.

 The ones I feel very sorry for are the remaining 55% who are being lead into economic suicide by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP,because that's what it will be when seperation eventually occurres,the only question is When.

  Thankfully on seperation the remaining U.K. Will reap the benifits,and I'm not just thinking from the inequalities of the Barnett formula and the West Lothian question.

 

 

[Basil B]

6 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

The jocks will be bankrupt in 6 months ..As oil is gone ..They have this exaggerated idea about their worth but just can't do the maths ...About how they will survive ..And who will bankroll their new currency???They just can't live with their monopoly money ..

I was trying to calculate what the Scottish £20 pound note would be worth if they ever get independence, and I calculated that it would be worth  0.25p based on a toilet roll costs about 50p and has about 200 sheets.

 

But their again I prefer Andrex.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

 

 

I seem to recall some discussion about this last time round. The resulting concensus was that they could survive, but unless they could find someone else to bankroll them it would be at the cost of significant tax hikes and some pretty stringent austerity measures. They certainly wouldn't be able to afford the level of welfare spending and state provision they enjoy at the moment.

 

Whereas if we remain in the UK, things will be perfect? I think not. The tax hikes you mention will only be on the working class, the Tory donors being guaranteed to enjoy at least a further 10 years of the tax concessions that they have been living large on since... time immemorial. Austerity? We have that already - Scots disabled and ill of health have already been dying at a similar rate as those in the rest of the UK because of the government's insistence that the poor must pay the price for the excesses of their friends leading to the bankrupting the country. But hey, Scotland can never manage without that, can it?

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

And that was when oil was at 100$ a barrel,now less then half that. Though I'm sure the SNP supporters will deny its importance. It's as if 45% of the Scots are dilussional regarding Scotland's importance,similar to that held by most Thais.

 The ones I feel very sorry for are the remaining 55% who are being lead into economic suicide by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP,because that's what it will be when seperation eventually occurres,the only question is When.

  Thankfully on seperation the remaining U.K. Will reap the benifits,and I'm not just thinking from the inequalities of the Barnett formula and the West Lothian question.

 

 

The UK is, globally, utterly unremarkable in just about every way its present state. Our countries may have done some incredible things in the past, and there is no denying the significant impact that the UK has had around the world over the years, but that is all history; now we are now nothing more than a medoiocre country with a multitude of unnecessarily bad social problems.

 

Scots know this very well. Your suggestion that we think we are important in the global scheme of things shows a complete lack of self-awareness on your part. In fact, it shows your failure to either recognise or accept just how NOT special we as a country are. We don't need to stand Ozymandias-like and demand people pay us respect - it is not something we need to feel good about ourselves.

 

And that is the crux of this issue. Some English people seem to think that Scottish independence is a betrayal of their country, or that it is arrogance because we want to stand on our own two feet. And you suggest that we are delusional? You seem think that you are so important to the picture that a country of almost 6 million people cannot survive without you? Get real and get some perspective!

[mommysboy]

36 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The UK is, globally, utterly unremarkable in just about every way its present state. Our countries may have done some incredible things in the past, and there is no denying the significant impact that the UK has had around the world over the years, but that is all history; now we are now nothing more than a medoiocre country with a multitude of unnecessarily bad social problems.

 

Scots know this very well. Your suggestion that we think we are important in the global scheme of things shows a complete lack of self-awareness on your part. In fact, it shows your failure to either recognise or accept just how NOT special we as a country are. We don't need to stand Ozymandias-like and demand people pay us respect - it is not something we need to feel good about ourselves.

 

And that is the crux of this issue. Some English people seem to think that Scottish independence is a betrayal of their country, or that it is arrogance because we want to stand on our own two feet. And you suggest that we are delusional? You seem think that you are so important to the picture that a country of almost 6 million people cannot survive without you? Get real and get some perspective!

It is a betrayal. Delusional? No, any country can stand on its own two feet.  But I think financial perspective is something Scots Nats seem to sorely lack in all honesty.  The case last time really was delusional, and it does not seem to have changed. There was something in the order of a 10-15 billion deficit in the last twelve months.  That's huge for such a small population.  It happened because oil revenues dropped drastically, and of course through bad governance.

 

When Scotland leaves it will have to assume appx. 170 billion pounds public debt, or it will be a pariah on the world markets.  That leaves it hamstrung.  And it leaves at a time when global demand is not good.  By dint of the damage done to the UK, its biggest trading partner, demand would probably drop in that direction, and of course with the EU, given it would no longer me a member.  UK will likely negotiate equivalence so international financial entities will likely move south, either to UK or within EU.

 

Incredibly, there is still no indication what currency would be used.  One suspects that once again the Nats are expecting the BoE to be its banker and guarantor.  Previously, it is fair to say that this attitude provoked ridicule not just south of the border.  It was and is sheer fantasy.

Edited March 19, 2017 by mommysboy
coherence

[rockingrobin]

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It is a betrayal. Delusional? No, any country can stand on its own two feet.  But I think financial perspective is something Scots Nats seem to sorely lack in all honesty.  The case last time really was delusional, and it does not seem to have changed. There was something in the order of a 10-15 billion deficit in the last twelve months.  That's huge for such a small population.  It happened because oil revenues dropped drastically, and of course through bad governance.

 

When Scotland leaves it will have to assume appx. 170 billion pounds public debt, or it will be a pariah on the world markets.  That leaves it hamstrung.  And it leaves at a time when global demand is not good.  By dint of the damage done to the UK, its biggest trading partner, demand would probably drop in that direction, and of course with the EU, given it would no longer me a member.  UK will likely negotiate equivalence so international financial entities will likely move south, either to UK or within EU.

 

Incredibly, there is still no indication what currency would be used.  One suspects that once again the Nats are expecting the BoE to be its banker and guarantor.  Previously, it is fair to say that this attitude provoked ridicule not just south of the border.  It was and is sheer fantasy.

£170 billion debt, please elaborate

[RuamRudy]

35 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It is a betrayal

A betrayal of whom, exactly? What do we owe the UK that would behove us to remain wedded to it irrevocably?

[Grouse]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-39314636

 

Some upbeat news ?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-39314636

 

Some upbeat news ?

Booze and farm salmon.....?.....wow....

 

I read Toyota are putting 240,000,000 quid to upgrade their English production plant.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-39314636

 

Some upbeat news ?

Great news indeed, but of concern is that over 40% of exports are going to the EU.

[JAG]

6 hours ago, JAG said:

 

I seem to recall some discussion about this last time round. The resulting concensus was that they could survive, but unless they could find someone else to bankroll them it would be at the cost of significant tax hikes and some pretty stringent austerity measures. They certainly wouldn't be able to afford the level of welfare spending and state provision they enjoy at the moment.

 

 

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Whereas if we remain in the UK, things will be perfect? I think not. The tax hikes you mention will only be on the working class, the Tory donors being guaranteed to enjoy at least a further 10 years of the tax concessions that they have been living large on since... time immemorial. Austerity? We have that already - Scots disabled and ill of health have already been dying at a similar rate as those in the rest of the UK because of the government's insistence that the poor must pay the price for the excesses of their friends leading to the bankrupting the country. But hey, Scotland can never manage without that, can it?

 

Now look again at what I said why don't you. I was clearly referring to tax hikes and austerity measures which would be required to achieve any fiscal viability after independence. That means that they would have to be applied on top of whatever austerity or taxes are applied at present.

 

Now I must declare that I don't really have much of a "dog in this fight:, I am from the West Country (England) and I now live in Thailand. My experience of Scotland in my two visits in the last ten years before I moved here was not particularly positive - I was spat at in Dundee and roundly abused in Glasgow, on both occasions because of my English accent. If Scotland goes alone it will have at the very most a marginal effect on the part of England I call home. But the debate does need to take into account some harsh realities, one of which is the significant amount of money Scotland receives from the  UK, which will not be there if it becomes an independent country.

 

 

[citybiker]

The UK is, globally, utterly unremarkable in just about every way its present state. Our countries may have done some incredible things in the past, and there is no denying the significant impact that the UK has had around the world over the years, but that is all history; now we are now nothing more than a medoiocre country with a multitude of unnecessarily bad social problems.
 
Scots know this very well. Your suggestion that we think we are important in the global scheme of things shows a complete lack of self-awareness on your part. In fact, it shows your failure to either recognise or accept just how NOT special we as a country are. We don't need to stand Ozymandias-like and demand people pay us respect - it is not something we need to feel good about ourselves.
 
And that is the crux of this issue. Some English people seem to think that Scottish independence is a betrayal of their country, or that it is arrogance because we want to stand on our own two feet. And you suggest that we are delusional? You seem think that you are so important to the picture that a country of almost 6 million people cannot survive without you? Get real and get some perspective!

Medoiocre Country?

Excuse me, that's is complete and utter tosh.

Nobody is saying 6 million are unable to survive however the nationalists Politicians are deluded & betraying the UK as a whole.

Devolution has given the SG an opportunity, it's about time the SNP got things into perspective and got real and use it domestically to improve things and compete globally, you even said yourself their not sitting around doing nothing, and yet again more generalising English bashing & the equal nationalist's arrogance is showing its true unpleasant colours.

Over the years I've witnessed self agenda, betrayal & continued broken promises and the only people that need to get real are the ones determined to break up the UK no matter what.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[citybiker]

Deleted

[citybiker]

Deleted

[citybiker]

Deleted