UK visitor visa for Thai GF resfusal - need help

[pr2017]

Hi all,

 

I applied in mid-April for a UK Visitor Visa for my Thai GF (we have been together since Dec 2016)

 

Below I provide, in order: A) my observations about the refusal, background and facts about our relationship and C) the refusal letter.

I hope someone in this forum can help me.

A) Out of the 4 points raised by the officer:
1) This point concerns me. It is not clear what conclusion the officer made about her circumstances in Thailand. It seems to me that the officer is just explaining how it works, instead of detailing an issue. Having said that, I have no idea how to fix it.
2) Stupid mistake. One of the questions on the form was "How much money are you planning to spend on your visit to the UK?" and I answered >£1k (exact value omitted). I assumed that was the cost of her trip, not a value that she would need to pay herself. In the form and in the invitation letter I said I was paying for absolutely everything, but if the question was meant to show money she needed to pay then I made a mistake. Is that the case?
One more thing in relation to "elaborate further" with regards to her savings: What else do they require?
3) My mistake again. I filled in the form and did it all without explaining to her all details. I never thought they would call my girlfriend. They called early morning and she was confused and ended up saying if the visa was for 6 months she would stay 6 months. Also, she said the course could take 3 months. This I believe can be fixed by clarifying the details with my girlfriend and confirming the dates of her trip: flight dates, exact return date and dates of any English courses.
4) It seems to be just a conclusion. Anything else I should fix?
Other things I think I missed, but were not mentioned by the officer:
- I didn't explain where and how we met (in a bar)
- Should I add a more detailed itinerary to the invitation letter, with dates and prices of train tickets, instead of just saying "we plan to visit cities A, B and C in the UK"?

History and Facts
I met my GF in Thailand in the end of December 2016. We stayed together for 8 days and went to two ASEAN countries together. I went back to Thailand BOTH in February and March and we visited a new ASEAN country in each trip, being together for 8 more days in each trip. I went back in April for 8 more days and this time stayed in Bangkok only.
My GF doesn't work. She lives in a remote village in Thailand with relatives, doesn't have properties and I send money to her every month.
I know that taking into account her financial situation (none!) and the fact that we met less than 5 months ago, against all the odds I thought I had a strong application for the following reasons:
- I went to Thailand 4 times in 4 months. In the last two opportunities I met several of her friends (proved with photos).
- She visited 4 ASEAN countries with me in 3 different months and got 4 stamps on her new passport.
- I sent all details about my financial situation which showed no problems with paying for her stay or supporting her.
- I sent logs of daily chats and daily video-calls (just extracts, but showing the excessive amount of communication)
- I sent proof of every single fact I put in the invitation letter, including air tickets, stamps on mine and her passports, photos (of us with her friends and us in each ASEAN country visited), logs of calls and chat, etc.
- My mortgage statement, payslip, P60, bank account extracts
- Proof of monthly money transfer from UK to Thailand
- Her ID card, a document with her address, and both ID and address document of closest relative.
- My invitation letter also clearly explained purpose of visit (visit boyfriend after my 4 visit to Thailand and short English course) and provided proof for every claim.

C) Below is the refusal letter, with some personal information masked. Please can anyone help me?

I have refused your application for a visa because I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraph(s) V4.2 - V4.10 of Appendix V: Immigration Rules because:
1) You have applied to visit the UK to see Mr X who you say is your boyfriend. You have said on your visa form that you intend to stay in the UK for 30 days. I acknowledge the letter of invitation, copy of your sponsors European Passport and evidence of his financial documents which you have submitted in support of your application, however I must take into account your own circumstances in Thailand as part of an overall assessment of your application and intentions in the UK.
2) You have said that you are currently unemployed and have £X (<£1k) in savings, however have elaborated no further. Whilst I note that you have said that your sponsor will contribute £X (>2k) to the cost of your visit and he has confirmed these details, I note, you have also said that you intend to spend £X (>1k) on your visit. Whilst you have submitted a copy of your personal bank statement, the closing balance on this account is £1k. I am therefore not satisfied that you have access to these funds.
3) In addition to the above, you were contacted on XX/XX and a routine interview was conducted, of which you confirmed you understood all questions put to you and the transcript of which is held with your application. You stated during interview that you intended to stay 3 months in the UK and would take an English course. You were unsure how long the course would be and stated that you would stay longer if needed to finish. Whilst I appreciate that you mentioned in your application form that you may take a short English course but that this would be for 1-2 weeks only. I further note that during interview you confirmed that if your visa was valid for 6 months you intended to stay for 6 months.
4) Given the contradictions between statements made by your at interview and the information you provided on your application form, I am not satisfied that you are a genuine visitor and that you intend to leave the UK at the end of your visit. Your application is refused under paragraph V4.2 (a) and (c) of Appendix V of the Immigration Rules.

Many thanks in advance
pr2017

 

[bobrussell]

There seem to be a number of issues:

The main one throughout is failure to demonstrate reasons to return. No job but savings of XX without explanation of its source.

Applicant has to demonstrate affordability. If you are paying costs then this needs to be stated clearly and evidence provided that it is affordable.

A visit that was to be for 30 days, becomes 3 months than 6 months!

Sadly enough gaps to drive a bus through!

 

If you reapply it is going to be essential that these irregularities are sorted and this may be far from easy. Once doubts are raised regarding the reliability of an applicant things get much tougher!

Might be an idea to get a copy of the transcript. If it was in English then the defence of misunderstanding is a valid one. Less so if it was in Thai. Confusion and panic can be a partial defence also.

 

Not an easy one to get out of!

 

[pr2017]

Hi bobrussell, Thanks for your reply.

 

About re-applying, the letter also says:

"Any future applications you make will be considered on their individual merits, however you are likely to be refused unless the circumstances of your application change"

 

If this is true, should I still worry about the transcript of the interview?

It was in Thai, so only the "confusion and panic" point would apply, which is still a valid one as you said.

 

I was wondering if, on re-applying, I should at all address the specific points reaised by the officer, such as the applicant (Thai girlfriend) saying 6 months when she shouldn't?

I thought I would re-apply as if it was a new chance and not mention any of the mistakes, just making sure we don't make them again?

 

Regarding your other comments.

 

- Agree with the explanation of source of savings. It was missing and must be provided.

- I mistakenly put a high value in one of the fields thinking that it referred to "Cost of Trip", no "Money for applicant to pay". I also provided all my statements which was acknowledged by the officer.

- Agree about the 30 days vs 3/6 months. That was a terrible mistake.

Many thanks

 

[rasg]

1 hour ago, pr2017 said:

I never thought they would call my girlfriend.

You really dropped the ball on this. With an application where an ECO needs to clarify info, they can call a sponsor, employer or an applicant. You should have primed your GF on the questions she might be asked and, at the very least, that she would confirm all you had said in your sponsor letter and her in her applicant letter.

 

IMHO it's not good to give too many details of a GF's finances or bank statements. I have seen quite a few refusals in the last year where an applicant's financial situation lead directly to the refusal. A few of them by stuffing money into a GF's bank account and the applicant being unable to give a reasonable explanation for the money. It's a horrible mistake.

 

As far as her savings are concerned the ECO is probably wondering how she can possibly have £1K in savings when she is unemployed.

 

On a visit visa you can only study for up to 30 days if that is not the main reason for the visit but asking for a 30 day holiday  and then your GF completely contradicting both the 30 day holiday request and also possibly the length of the English course is going to be a big problem for any subsequent application.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobrussell]

I would consider writing a letter with a future application stating the applicant panicked and was not trying to confuse or mislead the interviewer! She was unsure about the details but should not have been and apologises.

Next application make it absolutely clear that she wants to travel for X days, will not do any form of formal study, state exactly where she will be going to stay, when and get written confirmation from any home owner/landlord that this is acceptable.

Make her finances and yours absolutely clear, show where any savings have come from etc.

It may help to explain that you helped with the application and have no previous experience therefore confused the applicant.

Everything must be 100% truthful and details nailed down so the applicant makes no mistakes when phone interviewed.

It will be an uphill struggle and no guarantees.

Might be worth contacting the forum sponsors ThaiVisa Express to see if they can extricate you both from this mess!

[samsensam]

my friends have had no problem obtaining tourist visas for the uk, but then they have jobs or are studying so can show a reason to return to thailand. to be honest you can see why immigration would be concerned about a non-worker from a rural visit entering the uk. not sure what the answer to that one is.

 

my friends all submit a detailed itinerary for their visit; where they will stay, how they will travel, what they will do - and as it's all true they can't be caught out.

 

be clear, detailed, honest and straight with immigration

 

[darren1971]

3 hours ago, samsensam said:

my friends have had no problem obtaining tourist visas for the uk, but then they have jobs or are studying so can show a reason to return to thailand. to be honest you can see why immigration would be concerned about a non-worker from a rural visit entering the uk. not sure what the answer to that one is.

 

my friends all submit a detailed itinerary for their visit; where they will stay, how they will travel, what they will do - and as it's all true they can't be caught out.

 

be clear, detailed, honest and straight with immigration

 

although I agree with a lot of what you say I disagree with the notion that educated wealthy Thais are more likely to return. In fact they are in a much better position to remain in the UK, find work and finance setting up a new life here. Essentially if you're wealthy you can be trusted and if you're poor you can not.... Interestingly countries that have the shengen visa don't suffer from herds of poor Thais coming to their countries and never returning.

[samsensam]

2 hours ago, darren1971 said:

although I agree with a lot of what you say I disagree with the notion that educated wealthy Thais are more likely to return. In fact they are in a much better position to remain in the UK, find work and finance setting up a new life here. Essentially if you're wealthy you can be trusted and if you're poor you can not.... Interestingly countries that have the shengen visa don't suffer from herds of poor Thais coming to their countries and never returning.

 

hummm, how many educated middle, upper class thai friends do you have? and how many of them honestly tell you they would pack in their job in thailand to overstay a tourist visa in the uk, or another western country, and work there illegally?

 

all my thai friends were educated at CU, TU or ABAC, many have master degrees from the UK, USA or NZ, they have good jobs or run their own business and have very comfortable lives with a high standard of living. would they give it all up to live and work illegally in a western country? not on your life!

[darren1971]

1 minute ago, samsensam said:

 

hummm, how many educated middle, upper class thai friends do you have? and how many of them honestly tell you they would pack in their job in thailand to overstay a tourist visa in the uk, or another western country, and work there illegally?

 

all my thai friends were educated at CU, TU or ABAC, many have master degrees from the UK, USA or NZ, they have good jobs or run their own business and have very comfortable lives with a high standard of living. would they give it all up to live and work illegally in a western country? not on your life!

Plenty of wealthy Thai friends in the film industry but also plenty of Thai friends from poor backgrounds, I would say neither group are more inclined to leave Thailand, but also I come to the question without any deep rooted prejudices. The fact remains wealth and education is considered more reliable than culture and family. The only Thais I have ever heard express a desire to leave Thailand have been the wealthy.

[brewsterbudgen]

On 5/6/2017 at 2:35 AM, samsensam said:

 

hummm, how many educated middle, upper class thai friends do you have? and how many of them honestly tell you they would pack in their job in thailand to overstay a tourist visa in the uk, or another western country, and work there illegally?

 

all my thai friends were educated at CU, TU or ABAC, many have master degrees from the UK, USA or NZ, they have good jobs or run their own business and have very comfortable lives with a high standard of living. would they give it all up to live and work illegally in a western country? not on your life!

I'm the opposite to you!  Most of my Thai (or Lao) friends are from the lower echelons of society (you can't get much lower than being Lao in Thailand!) but those with established relationships with UK citizens have mostly been successful in applying for Visitor visas.  While "middle/upper class" applicants should be able to apply on their own, due to being able to show the finances to support the trip, plenty of "less educated" people can get visas if they have a proper sponsor and demonstrate a reason to return.  I have lots of criticisms of UKVI decision making, but prejudice against people with less education or those with bar work on their CV, is not one of them.

[7by7]

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 1:31 PM, pr2017 said:

4) Given the contradictions between statements made by your at interview and the information you provided on your application form, I am not satisfied that you are a genuine visitor and that you intend to leave the UK at the end of your visit. Your application is refused under paragraph V4.2 (a) and (c) of Appendix V of the Immigration Rules

Sorry to be harsh, but confusion and panic at being interviewed? Sorry; don't buy that at all.

 

The interview was in Thai, and the answers she gave regarding her intentions and length of stay were very different to those on the application form! This destroyed all her credibility in the eyes of the ECO.

 

Why could she not remember what she had said in her application?

 

The only reason for any confusion and panic during her interview that I can surmise is that she was not truthful about her intended length of stay in her application and couldn't remember what she had said there!

 

If she intended to stay for the full term of the visa, she should have said so in the first place.

 

There is also the matter of her English course; did she provide any evidence of this, that it lasted for the maximum of 30 days permitted for a standard visitor and that her place of study was accredited?

 

On the finances, as you are contributing towards the costs, then you need to provide evidence that you have the funds to so do. from the refusal notice it appears that you only submitted evidence of her finances, which were not sufficient to cover the stated costs of her visit.

 

Her study and the finance issue can easily be overcome in a subsequent application by providing the required evidence; but  the main stumbling block is her losing credibility by contradicting herself at least twice in the interview. She will have to satisfactorily explain her contradictory statements in any subsequent application, or will simply be refused again.

[bobrussell]

Definitely an uphill struggle!

 

[pr2017]

On 08/05/2017 at 10:14 AM, 7by7 said:

Her study and the finance issue can easily be overcome in a subsequent application by providing the required evidence; but  the main stumbling block is her losing credibility by contradicting herself at least twice in the interview. She will have to satisfactorily explain her contradictory statements in any subsequent application, or will simply be refused again.

Hi 7by7, I believe my finances were OK.From the 1st paragraph:

"I acknowledge [...] evidence of his financial documents which you have submitted [...]."

But I will definitely take that into account and make sure all my finances are properly explained and supported by documents.

 

It is clear to me now that in the next application I need to tackle the issue with the interview. The truth is that I did it all on my own and didn't explain anything to her. I just said we would apply for a visa. When she received the call she panicked and ended up saying what she said. She never left Asia and had no idea of the consequences of saying things like: "3 months English course", when the max is 30 days as a tourist, or "would stay 6 months if visa allowed". These contradicted what I put in the application form.

Obviously it was a stupid mistake and I have only myself to blame.

 

I understand from everyone's reply here that I must address the issues and mention the the refusal letter in the next application. I am thinking of putting the real reason as I explained above, which was that I didn't explain to her the process and left her in the dark.

 

It is interesting that I contacted two agencies and none replied after seeing the refusal letter. Definitely a tough challenge ahead, but since I have nothing to hide and she is a genuine visitor, I am hoping the next application will be accepted.

The refusal was totally fair based on my mistakes, however I hope the next application, if done correctly, is accepted because if it's refused based on the officer's opinion that a poor Thai woman may never return to Thailand it will be devastating.

We can prove she is a genuine visitor, the challenge will be to prove she has a reason to return to Thailand, when these reasons may be personal and not available as documents such as land ownership or millions of bahts in a bank account.

 

Thanks All

 

[rasg]

15 minutes ago, pr2017 said:

I understand from everyone's reply here that I must address the issues and mention the the refusal letter in the next application. I am thinking of putting the real reason as I explained above, which was that I didn't explain to her the process and left her in the dark.

 

It is interesting that I contacted two agencies and none replied after seeing the refusal letter. Definitely a tough challenge ahead, but since I have nothing to hide and she is a genuine visitor, I am hoping the next application will be accepted.

The refusal was totally fair based on my mistakes, however I hope the next application, if done correctly, is accepted because if it's refused based on the officer's opinion that a poor Thai woman may never return to Thailand it will be devastating.

We can prove she is a genuine visitor, the challenge will be to prove she has a reason to return to Thailand, when these reasons may be personal and not available as documents such as land ownership or millions of bahts in a bank account.

So many applicants request a couple of weeks but intend staying much longer. Did your GF really just state what you had both discussed?

 

Not telling her that she might get call and not priming her for that call has done a lot of damage to any new application's credibility. I wrote a list of bullet points for my wife to memorise, should she get a call but she never did on three visas. I also got her to remember another list to use when she was quizzed at immigration at Heathrow. True to form they asked her about work which she knew to say that she would never work as it is against the rules on a VV.

 

When my wife applied for her first visit visa she and a good solid letter from her employer stating that she had a job to return to when she returned and almost nothing else apart from photos of us with her family. A few hotel bookings and a couple of internal flight bookings together. IMHO an employer letter is by far the best route and in your shoes I would encourage her to get a job and apply in a while. The only other option is a settlement visa where she would need no reason to return.

 

I think you have a mountain to climb.

[pr2017]

57 minutes ago, rasg said:

Not telling her that she might get call and not priming her for that call has done a lot of damage to any new application's credibility.

 

I agree. As I said before, a stupid mistake. If only I could go back in time.

However, mistakes happen and I hope that the immigration office will understand it.

 

Unfortunately she doesn't work, she doesn't own land, her parents passed away when she was young and she was raised by her grandmother. She doesn't even know the name of her parents.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but I think it would be crazy to ask her to find a job just to get her visa accepted. I understand why immigration officers should follow strict rules to avoid mass illegal immigration to the UK. I don't dispute that.

However I earn enough to support her and a few more people in the UK and, as such, as long as she presents a valid and decent application without any contradictions I believe she should get an approval no matter how much money she has on her bank account.

 

Thanks

 

[brewsterbudgen]

 
I agree. As I said before, a stupid mistake. If only I could go back in time.
However, mistakes happen and I hope that the immigration office will understand it.
 
Unfortunately she doesn't work, she doesn't own land, her parents passed away when she was young and she was raised by her grandmother. She doesn't even know the name of her parents.
 
I understand where you are coming from, but I think it would be crazy to ask her to find a job just to get her visa accepted. I understand why immigration officers should follow strict rules to avoid mass illegal immigration to the UK. I don't dispute that.
However I earn enough to support her and a few more people in the UK and, as such, as long as she presents a valid and decent application without any contradictions I believe she should get an approval no matter how much money she has on her bank account.
 
Thanks
 

If you're paying for the trip, it doesn't matter how much money she has. They just need to be staisfied that you have the money to pay for it. Where having a job will assist the application, is by giving her a reason to return to Thailand. However, if she is going to reapply soon, it's irrelevant as no employer is going to give a new employee immediate leave.

[rasg]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If you're paying for the trip, it doesn't matter how much money she has. They just need to be staisfied that you have the money to pay for it. Where having a job will assist the application, is by giving her a reason to return to Thailand. However, if she is going to reapply soon, it's irrelevant as no employer is going to give a new employee immediate leave.

I wasn't suggesting that she gets a job and applies immediately. Get a job, leave it a while, and then apply.

 

1 hour ago, pr2017 said:

I agree. As I said before, a stupid mistake. If only I could go back in time.

However, mistakes happen and I hope that the immigration office will understand it.

 

Unfortunately she doesn't work, she doesn't own land, her parents passed away when she was young and she was raised by her grandmother. She doesn't even know the name of her parents.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but I think it would be crazy to ask her to find a job just to get her visa accepted. I understand why immigration officers should follow strict rules to avoid mass illegal immigration to the UK. I don't dispute that.

However I earn enough to support her and a few more people in the UK and, as such, as long as she presents a valid and decent application without any contradictions I believe she should get an approval no matter how much money she has on her bank account.

Sadly we don't have time machines yet.

 

I don't think it's crazy at all. If your GF was working in a bar what does she now do all day? I have seen a few VV refusals recently where the boyfriend was sending money to Thailand and the ECO rejected the visa because the GF had no means of earning money herself.

 

My wife had a job when we met but she was laid off while she was here in the UK so she stayed here for 14 weeks. I explained it all in the 2nd VV application and told them that I was financially supporting her by then. The visa went through with no problems. The difference was she had been to the UK before and gone home. While visit visa 2 was still valid we went for settlement and got married.

 

Your problems are to with a combination of factors that scuppered the visa. But the big one was that phone call. If she has £1K in her account and doesn't work the ECO wants to know where that money came from. From what you have said she has no reason to return and that is the most important thing.

[revelstone]

A number of years ago I successfully procured 3 visitor visas for my ex-girlfriend, despite her having no employment, not much money in her bank account and no reason for her to come back to Thailand. The key factor, I believe, is to supply sufficient documentary evidence (photos, shared trips, etc) to demonstrate to the ECO that the relationship is a genuine relationship and also to show that you have sufficient income or funds to cover the cost of her stay so that there will be no recourse to public funds. The genuine nature of the relationship provides the incentive to return to Thailand in order to ensure that future visas are not imperilled. Her first visa was for a length of stay of 16 weeks and she was given a full six months. She made sure to leave at the end of 16 weeks, which I think certainly helped with the later applications as it established credibility.

 

I believe the problem in this application was the contradiction between the interview and the paper application which introduced an element of doubt as to the true motives of the applicant. Any such doubt is lethal to a visa application. The ECO must be satisfied you're telling the truth. As another poster stated, it is important to anticipate a phone call or interview and be prepared to answer the questions appropriately. My ex was questioned at immigration as well regarding her intentions - we'd prepared her for both of these eventualities and she sailed through no problem. 

[darren1971]

36 minutes ago, revelstone said:

A number of years ago I successfully procured 3 visitor visas for my ex-girlfriend, despite her having no employment, not much money in her bank account and no reason for her to come back to Thailand. The key factor, I believe, is to supply sufficient documentary evidence (photos, shared trips, etc) to demonstrate to the ECO that the relationship is a genuine relationship and also to show that you have sufficient income or funds to cover the cost of her stay so that there will be no recourse to public funds. The genuine nature of the relationship provides the incentive to return to Thailand in order to ensure that future visas are not imperilled. Her first visa was for a length of stay of 16 weeks and she was given a full six months. She made sure to leave at the end of 16 weeks, which I think certainly helped with the later applications as it established credibility.

 

I believe the problem in this application was the contradiction between the interview and the paper application which introduced an element of doubt as to the true motives of the applicant. Any such doubt is lethal to a visa application. The ECO must be satisfied you're telling the truth. As another poster stated, it is important to anticipate a phone call or interview and be prepared to answer the questions appropriately. My ex was questioned at immigration as well regarding her intentions - we'd prepared her for both of these eventualities and she sailed through no problem. 

have to agree with you... at the end of the day they really have to make assumptions based on the evidence supplied, apart from the financial side you have to paint a picture that is clear and believable and more importantly consistent. 

[rasg]

6 hours ago, revelstone said:

Her first visa was for a length of stay of 16 weeks and she was given a full six months. She made sure to leave at the end of 16 weeks, which I think certainly helped with the later applications as it established credibility.

All visit visas seem to be multi entry and valid for six months unless you apply for longer visa in the first place. If an applicant stays longer than originally requested it is essential that you explain why the extra time in the next visa application. So many end up staying close to the six months despite originally telling UKVI they have a job to go back to.

Edited May 14, 2017 by rasg

[bobrussell]

It is not that unusual for a non-Thai partner to fill in the application and it is not unusual for the applicant to sign it having not fully understood what was in the application. The length of visit would generally be understood by the applicant but not necessarily what plans were once in the UK.

I would bet good money that an ECO would be aware of this but would not hold my breath hoping they would accept it as an excuse.

That said I am not sure what other options there are unless or until her circumstances change in a sufficient manner to convince the ECO that a visa should be approved.

Might be worth another go but don't get hopes up for success!

Did you try the forum sponsor? I would expect a reply from them at least!

Edited May 15, 2017 by bobrussell

[easybullet3]

On 5/6/2017 at 2:41 AM, darren1971 said:

Plenty of wealthy Thai friends in the film industry but also plenty of Thai friends from poor backgrounds, I would say neither group are more inclined to leave Thailand, but also I come to the question without any deep rooted prejudices. The fact remains wealth and education is considered more reliable than culture and family. The only Thais I have ever heard express a desire to leave Thailand have been the wealthy.

i think its safe to say that the Girl who has been rejected in this visa application is NOT an actress or has ever had a good job (as the application refusal letter clearly states that she has LESS than 1,000 pounds savings.

 

 

[darren1971]

1 hour ago, easybullet3 said:

i think its safe to say that the Girl who has been rejected in this visa application is NOT an actress or has ever had a good job (as the application refusal letter clearly states that she has LESS than 1,000 pounds savings.

 

 

but they are not requirements for a visit visa... or are they????

[brewsterbudgen]

but they are not requirements for a visit visa... or are they????

No. The only financial requirement for a Visitor visa is that someone can show that the whole trip is affordable and can be paid for. This does not have to be the applicant, who can be penniless!

[pr2017]

7 hours ago, bobrussell said:

I would bet good money that an ECO would be aware of this but would not hold my breath hoping they would accept it as an excuse.

That's the better excuse I could think of, which also happens to be the truth.

We will find out after we apply again (I'm still waiting to see if an agency will help us), but it's just common sense that the contradictions were caused by misunderstanding. I'm sure someone trying to come to the UK illegally will have a better plan or at least lie properly. We have all necessary documents, daily logs of calls and chats - going on for months, photos together in 5 different countries, in 4 different holidays, strong financial support... I don't want to anticipate my frustration in case of another refusal, but I just can't think of any reason why they would refuse again if we fix the mistakes.

 

"Did you try the forum sponsor? I would expect a reply from them at least!"

Yes, I tried the forum sponsor. No replies.

 

 

[bobrussell]

There is no requirement for the applicant to have two pennies to rub together! If the visit is to be financed by someone else this must be made clear and confirmed with evidence.

My wife was issued with several visas on the basis that she was a housewife/homemaker. She did own property though.

For a visa application to be successful it is necessary to paint a picture for the ECO. This must indicate that on the balance of probability, the applicant will return.

Here credibility has been shot to pieces through poor preparation and I suspect a confused applicant that decided to offer answers that she thought the ECO might want to hear rather than being straight!

My wife would not have been totally familiar with the fine details of the applications but would have known the expected visit dates and an idea of what we were going to do!

[ThaiVisaExpress]

8 hours ago, pr2017 said:

That's the better excuse I could think of, which also happens to be the truth.

We will find out after we apply again (I'm still waiting to see if an agency will help us), but it's just common sense that the contradictions were caused by misunderstanding. I'm sure someone trying to come to the UK illegally will have a better plan or at least lie properly. We have all necessary documents, daily logs of calls and chats - going on for months, photos together in 5 different countries, in 4 different holidays, strong financial support... I don't want to anticipate my frustration in case of another refusal, but I just can't think of any reason why they would refuse again if we fix the mistakes.

 

"Did you try the forum sponsor? I would expect a reply from them at least!"

Yes, I tried the forum sponsor. No replies.

 

 

 

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[rasg]

On 04/05/2017 at 1:31 PM, pr2017 said:

A) Out of the 4 points raised by the officer:
1) This point concerns me. It is not clear what conclusion the officer made about her circumstances in Thailand. It seems to me that the officer is just explaining how it works, instead of detailing an issue. Having said that, I have no idea how to fix it.
2) Stupid mistake. One of the questions on the form was "How much money are you planning to spend on your visit to the UK?" and I answered >£1k (exact value omitted). I assumed that was the cost of her trip, not a value that she would need to pay herself. In the form and in the invitation letter I said I was paying for absolutely everything, but if the question was meant to show money she needed to pay then I made a mistake. Is that the case?
One more thing in relation to "elaborate further" with regards to her savings: What else do they require?
3) My mistake again. I filled in the form and did it all without explaining to her all details. I never thought they would call my girlfriend. They called early morning and she was confused and ended up saying if the visa was for 6 months she would stay 6 months. Also, she said the course could take 3 months. This I believe can be fixed by clarifying the details with my girlfriend and confirming the dates of her trip: flight dates, exact return date and dates of any English courses.
4) It seems to be just a conclusion. Anything else I should fix?
Other things I think I missed, but were not mentioned by the officer:
- I didn't explain where and how we met (in a bar)
- Should I add a more detailed itinerary to the invitation letter, with dates and prices of train tickets, instead of just saying "we plan to visit cities A, B and C in the UK"?

The biggest problem  is the phone call to your GF by the ECO. I presume you and your GF discussed the 30 day length of the holiday and the length of the English course and you had impressed on her that she could only study for up to 30 days? Any longer would break the terms of her visa.

 

Mentioning the English course at all was a big mistake in itself. A 30 day course on a 30 day holiday would probably break the visa terms as studying must not be the main reason to come to the UK in the first place on a visit visa. When would she have time to holiday when she is studying for most of it? That would have set alarm bells ringing on its own.

 

From what you have said I have no doubt that the intention was for your GF to stay for the full six months which is why she said six months  when they called her. So many people on here and other forums seeking help initially say they want their GF to come for the full six months until it's pointed out that the application is unlikely to be successful if they ask for six months. The main reason to return to Thailand that seems to be the most successful is having a job to return to and a letter from an employer. An ECO won’t believe that an employer would allow an employee to take a six month holiday so it's another non starter to request more than a few weeks if you are using a job as the main reason to return.

 

I see that Thai Visa Express have replied that they haven't been contacted. If you have the cash, give them a try. Probably the only visa company worth trying. I would be very interested to hear what they have to say. My guess is they will suggest that she gets a job and that she applies in a years time or something similar.

 

There is no reason why you shouldn’t tell them that you met in a bar and you don't need a detailed itinerary.

 

 

[7by7]

15 hours ago, pr2017 said:

That's the better excuse I could think of, which also happens to be the truth.

We will find out after we apply again (I'm still waiting to see if an agency will help us), but it's just common sense that the contradictions were caused by misunderstanding.

 

I'm sorry, but I simply cannot get my head around your saying that you did not tell your girlfriend how long a stay you had entered on her application form! Had you done so, this 'confusion' would never have arisen because her answers in the interview would have matched those on the form.

 

As far as the ECOs are concerned, your girlfriend, the applicant, signed a declaration which includes a statement that the answers given on the form are true and complete. How could she have signed that declaration without knowing what those answers were?

 

You may say that her ability to read English isn't up to understanding that lengthy declaration. To which the obvious response is; why didn't you explain it to her?

 

15 hours ago, pr2017 said:

I'm sure someone trying to come to the UK illegally will have a better plan or at least lie properly.

Not if they were the innocent victim of some form of scammer or people smuggler.  A criminal who gains a girl's trust, promises her a wonderful holiday in the UK, fills in the form for her without giving her the details and doesn't care if this particular application is successful or not because there are plenty more where she came from. It happens.

 

Not accusing you of that; obviously you wouldn't be posting here if you were one of those scum! But the ECO doesn't know that!

 

15 hours ago, pr2017 said:

I just can't think of any reason why they would refuse again if we fix the mistakes.

 

Because she, or you, have lost all credibility, and to be successful you have to regain that.

 

For advice on how to do that, contact TVE.

[Jip99]

On 5/15/2017 at 10:57 AM, bobrussell said:

It is not that unusual for a non-Thai partner to fill in the application and it is not unusual for the applicant to sign it having not fully understood what was in the application. The length of visit would generally be understood by the applicant but not necessarily what plans were once in the UK.

I would bet good money that an ECO would be aware of this but would not hold my breath hoping they would accept it as an excuse.

That said I am not sure what other options there are unless or until her circumstances change in a sufficient manner to convince the ECO that a visa should be approved.

Might be worth another go but don't get hopes up for success!

Did you try the forum sponsor? I would expect a reply from them at least!

 

 

I would suggest that that the vast majority of applicants (sponsored by TV members) don't write their own applications and don't have a clue what is in them. Not an issue when dealing with VfS but it can be if interviewed by phone.