The Tale of two ty250 Mono's - pic heavy

[thaiguzzi]

Airbox in before the rear mudguard and wheel.

 

[thaiguzzi]

Count the grease nipples - 5.

4 on the multi link, and one i added on the rear brake lever.

The multi link grease nipples is another nice touch, probably the reason i did'nt have to buy any brgs, needle rollers, bobbins or seals, when i reconned them.

Nowadays , i don't think any of the manufacturers build bikes with them, you're just meant to dismantle and rebuild (replace) every year as part of the annual maintenance. Probably saves 60 grams in weight....

 

Another nice touch is the multi adjustable rear brake lever. The front is adjustable on two height settings, and the rear is infinite with a multi spline arm - nice. Especially when you've lowered the foot pegs nearly 2"....

 

[thaiguzzi]

'Ol Blu is a rolling chassis !!!

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

'Ol Yeller's motor in the frame, and multi link loosely bolted in, strung up out of the way waiting for the swing arm to make an entrance....

 

More to follow tomorrow...

 

[ktm jeff]

Bread making scales  .......  rock and roll    .    Im loving this rebuild , and your quality of work and cleaver modifications. Guess you will be keeping these bikes for 26 years too. ( RE - Triumph ).

[Nickymaster]

Nice job! Would love to do something like this. Still has to wait a couple of years. Always a good feeling to rebuild something. Keeps the mind healthy.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, ktm jeff said:

Bread making scales  .......  rock and roll    .    Im loving this rebuild , and your quality of work and cleaver modifications. Guess you will be keeping these bikes for 26 years too. ( RE - Triumph ).

# Living in Nakon Nowhere and being a Cheap Charlie when it comes to gasping at local bakery prices and products, one has to make one's own old chap.

# My Triumph = 38 years and counting.

[thaiguzzi]

Stock air box lids are typical Jap. Long internal snorkel tube finishing in an about 15 x 40mm hole. External hole is about 20 x 45mm, shrouded. Ridiculous.

Pull the internal snorkel off, stick the lid on the mill and machine  out the largest elongated hole i can before catching any of the filter cage holders.

 

Oh, if only stainless steel were as easy to machine as plastic....

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

So, after reading up on trials 2 stroke exhaust systems to clean internally, and in particular the ty mono, i thought i might be a bit clever.

Ignore all the experts who'd done it before.

Instead of cutting the mid box open, i'd cut a window on one side, clean and re-pack, make up an alloy plate to re rivet and silicone for ever more.

The world famous corn flake packet as template...

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

.... except, as you can see in the above photo, once you've cut the outer skin open, you're faced with, er, not a lot, except an outer skin baffle. No access to the packing, no access to the central baffle tube. Duh!

My clever idea was not very clever after all, quite stoopid, and i shoulda heeded what everyone says on the forums - cut it in half.

 

 

 

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

The above photo was from The Quiet One, dried hard carbon everywhere.

The photo below was from The Rattley One. Wet, 'orrible, bastard thing to clean. Obviously been run for months, years over oiling. Rattley One came with a modified home made expansion chamber type exhaust system. The one below was a spare original that came with the spares and i bolted on.

I lost count on the amount of surgical gloves i went through cleaning this bastard out.

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by thaiguzzi

[thaiguzzi]

Burn, baby, burn....

 

[thaiguzzi]

Fortunately, i have no neighbors and an understanding wife...

 

[thaiguzzi]

And after 9-10 hours (i'm not joking!) spread over 2-3 days, of scraping, and pulling out 33 year old fibreglass packing and drizzled old 2 stroke oil and hardened carbon using a combination of fingers, straight, bent and 90 degree picks, burning with paraffin/kerosene, burning with petrol, pricking every hole i could get to (hundreds, nay thousands), i ended up with two mid boxes that looked like this.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

After re-packing (3 packs of exhaust fibreglass per box), prepping  for welding, and spot mig welding shut, it was time to visit my local Mister Exhaust Repair Man. Lovely bloke, know him a long time, main business is car and truck exhausts, makes up custom stuff for older trucks etc, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, knows how to gas weld very thin metal, and understands 2 stroke motorcycle exhaust pipes (rides a yellow Yamaha DT100 himself).

 

Superb job, he kept saying how good the steel was. Took him just over an hour, apologized for having to charge me 400 baht... I said the beers are on me, when i pop round in a couple of weeks.

 

 

[fatdrunkandstupid]

You say it is a bit of a job to get the motor out of the frame.  Any reason you did not elect to reco the rings and bearings?

[thaiguzzi]

17 hours ago, fatdrunkandstupid said:

You say it is a bit of a job to get the motor out of the frame.  Any reason you did not elect to reco the rings and bearings?

# The only jobs needing motor removal are crank bottom end and gearbox problems.

# These motors have a bottom end based on the YZ 450, an engine knocking out 3 or more times the bhp, and hence are regarded as pretty much over the top bulletproof.

# With the motor in the frame, you can remove the top end easily, change crank seals, work on the clutch on the R/H side, and work on all ignition components, flywheel rotor, stator, on the L/H side.

# I have not removed the R/H clutch cover on any of the 5 engines. Both running engines last year had no slip or drag on the clutches.

# I have had the L/H stator cover off on all 5 engines. see earlier post.

# All 3 spare engines change gear, get 6 speeds and the lever returns to the neutral position.

# I have had the top ends off 4 of the 5 engines. 3 spare motors have no pistons, conrod flopping about in the bore, and measured and noted bore sizes. All have plenty of life left in the bores ie rebore o/s. 2 have perfect big ends and mains, 1 has a slight play in the big end and good mains, hence will need a rod kit with new big end..

# Quiet One seems to have zero issues, good compression readings, on the guage and my right leg, and is, er, quiet.

# Rattley One was, er, rattley. Ran well, but i've had the top end off to investigate noise. This motor has a piston i've never ever come across before. Size wise, gudgeon pin to crown height, crown shape, window details on the inlet side of the skirt are IDENTICAL to OE Yamaha. Except the pin size. This piston runs a 16mm pin compared to OE 18mm, and runs a hardened ground sleeve on the stock 23mm small end bearing. Never seen anything like it. Obviously the piston is not ty250 mono. Bore was good, piston and rings were good, but the S/E bearing was sloppy. All i could do is purchase and fit a new stock needle roller, put it back together and see if it improves, noise wise. This motor also had good compression readings.

# Both engines before, did not pull WOT (wide open throttle) in 5th or 6th gear on the road leading to another parcel of land i practice on. I put this down to homemade builders merchant rendering foam air filters (dry), and/or, the small main jets, and/or the restrictive airfilter lids, and/or the stuffed up exhaust mid boxes and stock end pipes. All of the above has been changed, c/w new alloy DEP alloy end pipes.

 

... look fwd to seeing improvements in all aspects of running....

[CMKiwi]

Good to see your local Thai welder using some form of eye protection.... not that common and a shake my head in horror when I see them using their hand as a shield when arc welding.

 

Flashed or arc eye is not a great feeling (I had that as a young un when welding holes into my bicycle, I had no idea what I was doing)

 

Your project is coming along nicely.  many moons ago I de-coked a muffler on a Yamaha MR50.  What a pain but the difference was huge when completed.  The bike use to choke itself once it warmed up...I suspect all the crud, carbon etc expanded in the heat and blocked off the exhaust outlet.   Engines gotta breath too, and that applies to both inhalation and exhalation.  Like you said with your airbox.

[papa al]

On 6/6/2017 at 2:42 PM, thaiguzzi said:

'Ol Blu is a rolling chassis !!!

 

 

The white frame looks very classy. 

Wow.

[thaiguzzi]

Foam air filter oil. Or rather, air filter oil for foam air filters.

What a f##king palaver.

So, me being me, i wanted the real Mcoy.

I'd spent hours on the net reading forums, opinions, and the vast majority said "get the real stuff".

I've got K&N air filter cleaner and oil here for my Triumph and Guzzi, but the can says in big capital letters "Not for use on foam filters"...

I asked the local Thai independent shops and got 5 different answers. 2t oil, engine oil, gear oil, ATF, hydraulic oil.

I get on the computer again and start trying to order some. Start with shops i've used before. UK. USA. No one will sell me a bottle because no one is allowed to ship it abroad anymore. Air freight and "hazardous goods" is a big no no.

The nearest stuff to it according to 'Mercans was chainsaw bar oil. Tacky.

So i go into town a couple of days ago, and after the 4th hardware/ag shop i find some.

4 liters.

160 baht.

Bargain.

Great!. Brilliant!. Except i get it home, open the container - stinks, looks pretty 'orrible and pour some into a glass jar. I would'nt even put that shIt in a lawn mower engine. If i was a Husqvarna/McCullogh (spelling - i know nothing about chainsaws) owner i would'nt even run it on a chain of a saw. Stunk of petroleum, very greasy, very thin and did not look clean. Certainly not what a 'Mercan or Skandinavian woodsman would expect chain saw bar oil to be.

 One of my staff came round yesterday, he's got a chainsaw, i gave him the whole 4 liters. He was well pleased. He also said this is "recyken oi". Ya don't say...

So back on the computer. Start searching Thailand big bike shops, products, accessories. I must of wasted 8 hours over 3 days reading, learning and searching for f##king air filter oil.

Praise the Lord!

There is a God!

Hail Buddha!

A shop i've never heard of called Mr Moto Sports in down town Udon Thani has Motul air filter oil for foam air filters in stock. 990 baht for a 1 liter bottle. Only 85 kms away, thought i'd nip in today on the Triumph and grab a bottle, but we've had monsoon rain all day. Step daughter goes to Udon university and is bringing me said holy bottle of oil over on Saturday.

 Nearly there...

[thaiguzzi]

I had 4 seats.

1 black rubber/silicone competition pad.

1 'orrible purple stock seat.

2 very nice stock and most common red seats, which have a very nice TY design embossed in the top.

The purple one went straight down to Mr Seat Recover Man for a std 150 baht recover in dimpled black.

The decision and question was; red seat or black seat with the non stock paintwork???

 

[thaiguzzi]

Red?

[thaiguzzi]

Or black?

[thaiguzzi]

Decisions, decisions.

Even got the missus and kids involved with their opinions. We all agreed on the one colour.

You'll have to wait and find out folks as i've run out of photos to upload, by which time the bikes will have oil and fuel in...

[fatdrunkandstupid]

5 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

# The only jobs needing motor removal are crank bottom end and gearbox problems.

# These motors have a bottom end based on the YZ 450, an engine knocking out 3 or more times the bhp, and hence are regarded as pretty much over the top bulletproof.

# With the motor in the frame, you can remove the top end easily, change crank seals, work on the clutch on the R/H side, and work on all ignition components, flywheel rotor, stator, on the L/H side.

# I have not removed the R/H clutch cover on any of the 5 engines. Both running engines last year had no slip or drag on the clutches.

# I have had the L/H stator cover off on all 5 engines. see earlier post.

# All 3 spare engines change gear, get 6 speeds and the lever returns to the neutral position.

# I have had the top ends off 4 of the 5 engines. 3 spare motors have no pistons, conrod flopping about in the bore, and measured and noted bore sizes. All have plenty of life left in the bores ie rebore o/s. 2 have perfect big ends and mains, 1 has a slight play in the big end and good mains, hence will need a rod kit with new big end..

# Quiet One seems to have zero issues, good compression readings, on the guage and my right leg, and is, er, quiet.

# Rattley One was, er, rattley. Ran well, but i've had the top end off to investigate noise. This motor has a piston i've never ever come across before. Size wise, gudgeon pin to crown height, crown shape, window details on the inlet side of the skirt are IDENTICAL to OE Yamaha. Except the pin size. This piston runs a 16mm pin compared to OE 18mm, and runs a hardened ground sleeve on the stock 23mm small end bearing. Never seen anything like it. Obviously the piston is not ty250 mono. Bore was good, piston and rings were good, but the S/E bearing was sloppy. All i could do is purchase and fit a new stock needle roller, put it back together and see if it improves, noise wise. This motor also had good compression readings.

# Both engines before, did not pull WOT (wide open throttle) in 5th or 6th gear on the road leading to another parcel of land i practice on. I put this down to homemade builders merchant rendering foam air filters (dry), and/or, the small main jets, and/or the restrictive airfilter lids, and/or the stuffed up exhaust mid boxes and stock end pipes. All of the above has been changed, c/w new alloy DEP alloy end pipes.

 

... look fwd to seeing improvements in all aspects of running....

Rattley One: Bent crank?...from former piston meltdown?

Edited June 8, 2017 by fatdrunkandstupid

[fatdrunkandstupid]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

I had 4 seats;

 

One for solitude,

Two for friendship,

Three (and four) for society.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Or black?

White seat.

[papa al]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Foam air filter oil. Or rather, air filter oil for foam air filters.

What a f##king palaver.

So, me being me, i wanted the real Mcoy.

I'd spent hours on the net reading forums, opinions, and the vast majority said "get the real stuff".

I've got K&N air filter cleaner and oil here for my Triumph and Guzzi, but the can says in big capital letters "Not for use on foam filters"...

I asked the local Thai independent shops and got 5 different answers. 2t oil, engine oil, gear oil, ATF, hydraulic oil.

I get on the computer again and start trying to order some. Start with shops i've used before. UK. USA. No one will sell me a bottle because no one is allowed to ship it abroad anymore. Air freight and "hazardous goods" is a big no no.

The nearest stuff to it according to 'Mercans was chainsaw bar oil. Tacky.

So i go into town a couple of days ago, and after the 4th hardware/ag shop i find some.

4 liters.

160 baht.

Bargain.

Great!. Brilliant!. Except i get it home, open the container - stinks, looks pretty 'orrible and pour some into a glass jar. I would'nt even put that shIt in a lawn mower engine. If i was a Husqvarna/McCullogh (spelling - i know nothing about chainsaws) owner i would'nt even run it on a chain of a saw. Stunk of petroleum, very greasy, very thin and did not look clean. Certainly not what a 'Mercan or Skandinavian woodsman would expect chain saw bar oil to be.

 One of my staff came round yesterday, he's got a chainsaw, i gave him the whole 4 liters. He was well pleased. He also said this is "recyken oi". Ya don't say...

So back on the computer. Start searching Thailand big bike shops, products, accessories. I must of wasted 8 hours over 3 days reading, learning and searching for f##king air filter oil.

Praise the Lord!

There is a God!

Hail Buddha!

A shop i've never heard of called Mr Moto Sports in down town Udon Thani has Motul air filter oil for foam air filters in stock. 990 baht for a 1 liter bottle. Only 85 kms away, thought i'd nip in today on the Triumph and grab a bottle, but we've had monsoon rain all day. Step daughter goes to Udon university and is bringing me said holy bottle of oil over on Saturday.

 Nearly there...

You are truly hard-core sir.

[Nickymaster]

Red seat

 

 

[papa al]

RE: Foam-air-filter oil.

Anything except chain-saw-chain oil,

= thick oil like 90w

with purple dye to sell

@ rip-off price.

 

Dust will stick to any oil 

equally well.

 

Extant colours: white, blue, black, gold, silver/grey. 

Now you consider adding red?

Yikes.