Two dead as foreigner on powerful bike hits local in Phetchabun

[joebrown]

7 hours ago, onthesoi said:

Funny how you had no qualms liking the post blaming the Thai....not to mention the hundreds of posts you've made blaming thais in the past.

If the falang bike ended up 100m down the road its means he was speeding so didnt have time to avoid something on the road, if he'd been driving at a safe speed then both would likley still be alive. 

 

Guess what, speeding is wrong which means the falang is mostly to blame.

I live 2 km from Na Chaliang and drove past the scene of this 'accident' about 10 minutes after the collision. Later, after gaining local Thai opinion it was clear the farang was not at fault, regardless of his speed. The deceased Thai had recklessly/Illegally driven his bike over the grass central reservation, on a tight bend, changing from the northbound to the southbound carriageways in order to shortcut a ride of about 500m to a U-Turn.

RIP farang it was not your fault.

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, joebrown said:

I live 2 km from Na Chaliang and drove past the scene of this 'accident' about 10 minutes after the collision. Later, after gaining local Thai opinion it was clear the farang was not at fault, regardless of his speed. The deceased Thai had recklessly/Illegally driven his bike over the grass central reservation, on a tight bend, changing from the northbound to the southbound carriageways in order to shortcut a ride of about 500m to a U-Turn.

RIP farang it was not your fault.

 

 

Interesting..

 

"the farang  was not at fault, regardless of his speed. "

[joebrown]

8 hours ago, phutoie2 said:

This is Route 21, a dual carriage road well  maintained. The town is actually called Na Chaliang, there is bend as you approach the town from the north just before you reach the towns traffic lights. I am usually reducing speed as I approach this bend. RIP to both involved. 

As a local Na Chaliang resident I always slow down when approaching the town from the north because of the up-coming traffic lights.

FYI the accident happened about 1 km south of the traffic lights, just after a right hand bend.

[Happy Grumpy]

5 minutes ago, joebrown said:

to shortcut a ride of about 500m to a U-Turn.

RIP farang it was not your fault.

 

If there is a shortcut available, you better believe that the Thai think it's intelligent to take it, no matter how dangerous it is. 

[joebrown]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Interesting..

 

"the farang  was not at fault, regardless of his speed. "

His speed is as yet unknown, so cannot be taken into account at this moment.

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been removed. 

[joebrown]

1 hour ago, DualSportBiker said:

I took a look at StreetView on Google Maps. Here's what I found. I struggle to call that blind corner, not from a drivers/riders perspective. From the pics here it looks like there is at least 100m visibility throughout the corner. The enclosed screen grabs start from the 175/700 marker and are around 100 meters apart.The the final picture shows the /800 marker highlighted. 

 

Us armchair analysts can't make anything else but assumptions about the rest of the circumstances. Regardless of what we think, two are dead and it's messed up. 

RIP.

You're struggling to call it a blind corner because you're looking at the wrong one. The accident happened just after a right hand bend 1 km south of Na Chaliang on the south bound carriageway! 

[richard_smith237]

The 'big bike' was probably traveling at a similar speed as the cars do on the same road. 

 

It looks to me as if the Big Bike fully expected to the old fella on the bike not to pull out, thus continued. 

 

At the last second when the old fella on the motorcycle pulled out in front of him the guy on the big bike had very little chance or time to avoid him. 

 

 

Those who are placing the blame at the hands of the guy riding the big bike seem to expect everyone to ride around at 25kmh... this is a little daft. The Guy crossing the road was doing so not at proper crossing point and did not see if the road was clear. 

 

It was the Old guys (small motorcycles) fault. The speed of the big bike clearly will have exaggerated the severity of the accident, but its likely he was traveling at 'road speed'. The road design is almost certainly also to blame, there could be barriers preventing the crossing point. 

 

However, ultimately the Old guy, crossing, without looking, without double checking that his path was completely clear is at fault for pulling out in to the path of another vehicle.

 

It is because of accidents such as this that I have a dash-cam... One day a motorcycle will pull out directly in front of my car on a similar road. I very much doubt I'll be doing 25 kmh when this happens - I'll be traveling up to the speed limit (depending on conditions, visibility etc).

It won't be my fault, although I'm sure some posters on here will claim if I can't stop in time when someone pulls out in front of me it would be my fault. Thats just rubbish as it would imply that the speeds we drive at need to be so ridiculously low it would take an age to get anywhere. 

 

 

 

[DualSportBiker]

10 minutes ago, joebrown said:

You're struggling to call it a blind corner because you're looking at the wrong one. The accident happened just after a right hand bend 1 km south of Na Chaliang on the south bound carriageway! 

OK. I was working off the 175/7-800 km markers quoted by another TV member...

Edited May 15, 2017 by DualSportBiker
bad spelling!

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, joebrown said:

You're struggling to call it a blind corner because you're looking at the wrong one. The accident happened just after a right hand bend 1 km south of Na Chaliang on the south bound carriageway! 

The google maps street view is a good representation of the road design and helps the debate. 

 

Perhaps you could post the 'location' you believe it to be which will help us see the 'blind bend'. 

 

[Knocker33]

10 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Front end damage on the KTM and side damage on the Cub, indeed suggests the old fella was crossing to get to the other side of the central reservation and probably didn't look at what was coming too well. The KTM must have been seriously traveling though, for the bikes to come to rest 100 meters down the road. RIP to both.

Probably didn't look what was coming too well. Probably didn't look at all. 

[mikecha]

10 hours ago, Nowisee said:

The factors that caused this could be controlled somewhat.

Speed kills.  There is no way around that fact.

Crossing a lane of traffic at a blind or limited view bend.

 

There is a time and place for going fast. BUT, for the life of me I do not understand why people go so damn fast in congested (people/animals/other bikes) areas, places where high speed is not reasonable, places with very limited forward visibility (hills/corners), poor road conditions.  

 

Daily, nightly I hear sport bikes ripping through the gears from traffic light to traffic light at high speed on a narrow, congested section of road full of small sois, businesses, parking lot exits and bends in the road.  

 

young and stupid   maybe u old and wise

[digger70]

Rip poor fellows .Didn't see any Big bikes like a 1650 cc Honda or a 1100 cc monster Ducati?

[pentap]

Tricky...

Many factors have to be considered in order to calculate an estimation of speed, in this case, by the KTM.

Example:

Weather conditions. Road surface etc. Condition of the bikes etc.

It may have been possible, that the KTM rider was travelling at the legal speed, for that particular stretch of road?

The KTM is a bigger bike with more weight as apposed to the smaller bike, with much less weight. I'm not surprised the bikes were, if correctly reported, as being the distance stated.

Yet another sad report.

R.I.P to both involved.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[CharlieH]

Please keep to the topic and not comment on other members.

[oldlakey]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 

Nope, you need to come to terms with where the blame lies

Two riders one commits a crime as in riding without due care and attention, the other commits no crime

Now lets see I wonder who is to blame

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Nope, you need to come to terms with where the blame lies

Two riders one commits a crime as in riding without due care and attention, the other commits no crime

Now lets see I wonder who is to blame

No one is to blame. 

 

It was was an accident with responsibility on both sides. 

 

Why there is a need to blame someone is beyond me.

 

Two people have have died in an accident. . 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Bluespunk

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

No one is to blame. 

 

It was was an accident with responsibility on both sides. 

 

Why is there a need to blame someone is beyond me.

 

Teo people have have died in an accident. . 

Genuine accidents where no one is to blame, well maybe they have occurred, but I doubt it

This certainly is not one for sure

The actions of the old gent has put him in the wrong, the fact that its a regular occurrence at that point of the road is no defence

Unless there is irrefutable proof that the other rider was speeding then he wasn't, so no blame can be attached to him

The fact that two people have died is patently obvious, as is the reason for both deaths

 Blame needs to be decided for various reasons such as - legal / financial matters / closure for family etc etc and if nothing else its human nature

[hawker9000]

12 hours ago, Nowisee said:

The factors that caused this could be controlled somewhat.

Speed kills.  There is no way around that fact.

Crossing a lane of traffic at a blind or limited view bend.

 

There is a time and place for going fast. BUT, for the life of me I do not understand why people go so damn fast in congested (people/animals/other bikes) areas, places where high speed is not reasonable, places with very limited forward visibility (hills/corners), poor road conditions.  

 

Daily, nightly I hear sport bikes ripping through the gears from traffic light to traffic light at high speed on a narrow, congested section of road full of small sois, businesses, parking lot exits and bends in the road.  

 

Yeap, the mototaxi drivers are maniacs and foreigners quickly pick up all their bad habits, most emphatically including excessive speed in situations demanding extra caution and sensible speeds.  The fact of the accident demonstrates that excessive speed was at least a factor, but defensive driving just isn't part of the much vaunted "culture".

[Farang hunter]

The two guys are dead!!! and some creatures here still blame it on the old local.   Common sense people.

[LannaGuy]

1 hour ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Enough of your trolling.

 

It's disgusting on a thread about people who were killed due to the stupidity and actions of one of them. 

that's not fair... there was responsibility on both sides one, i believe, was due to 'normalisation' of crossing at a busy section and the other through simply 'letting go' as we all may have done at some stage or the other which is why I felt it was 25/75 but not 100 either way

 

it was an accident the old guy did not wake up thinking 'wow I'll risk my life crossing that road again' and the biker did not think wow let's go kill an old guy today and die in the process'  

 

accidents happen - shit happens

 

accidents CAN be mitigated by education, bridges, trainings, speed control etc. but can never be ruled OUT

[CharlieH]

Flame style post and bickering removed.

[Destiny1990]

17 minutes ago, chrissables said:

So you have no idea who was at fault, but difine him as a fool? What a <deleted> you are!

Doesnt matter both are death.Buy surely the guy was speeding on his big bike otherwise he would have used his breaks or avoided the crash.

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Doesnt matter both are death.Buy surely the guy was speeding on his big bike otherwise he would have used his breaks or avoided the crash.

 

How do you know he didn't take any avoiding action ?

 

Each and every day I drive the streets of Bangkok, pedestrians on the sides of the roads, bikes waiting to cross at an intersection... All it takes is someone on a bike or pedestrian to dart out at the last moment and I have milliseconds to react... most likely my reaction would be after impact. 

 

On a provincial highway the normal speed of traffic is generally higher than the inner city, but the same rules apply.... Motorcycles, pedestrians, anyone must wait for passing traffic. The assumption of the passing traffic is that those waiting to cross or pull out will wait. 

 

When someone doesn't wait, for whatever reasons, be it eyesight, poor judgement, impatience  etc and pulls out at the last moment, it leaves little time for reaction. 

 

Pure speculation on my part leads me to believe that the tragic consequences arose from a poor old man either not looking or not paying attention and simply did not see the on coming motorcycle, instead of waiting for the motorcycle to pass, he simply pulled out straight into his path. 

 

Sometimes people look, but they don't see.... I see this many times with other cars pulling out on me when I'm driving, I see this a lot with motorcycles pulling out on me when I'm riding my bicycle.... there seems to be something subliminal controlling the 'give way' decision..... .... [just a thought]....

 

 

 

[CMKiwi]

I haven't read all the replies to the OP, however from what the initial police report states the old fellah crossed the main road in a very dangerous location.

 

This suggests that what this old guy did was perhaps illegal and if nor just plain stupid.

 

As a result he has been collected by a guy travelling through.

 

Based on what I have seen in my limited time in Thailand, this doesn't surprise me. Road education is pretty much non existent. .. and I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

Just because someone owns a big bike it doesn't make them speedsters or reckless. 

 

I ride a bike too and most days I get told it is dangerous in way way or another. But it's my choice and I live with that risk.

 

Unfortunately when your times up its up.  But until then I will enjoy my rides around the place.

 

Unfortunately (again).. 2 riders died.  stupid decisions made by uneducated people seems to be very common here.

 

I always believe in expecting the unexpected on these roads...it's kept me alive for 5 years so far!

[Damrongsak]

Years ago I t-boned two guys on a Honda 50 who ran through a T intersection on the far side of a box truck without stopping.  I wasn't going terribly fast, but I flew over the bars and partway down a ditch embankment.  I did scrub off some speed and managed to hit them dead-center between the driver's and passenger's legs.  No one apparently hurt and I rode unsteadily back to town.  I think I sprained about one of every type body part.

[CMKiwi]

Bloody lucky is all I can say.... You can be the safest rider on the road, but some dipshit will do their best to upset your day. (Generally they are locals too)

[Nickymaster]

IF the bike was riding at a high speed, it would have been very difficult to make a proper judgement when to cross the road. I know from experience that it is very easy to blame somebody for not seeing you if you go twice the speed limit.

In this case we don't the bike's speed therefor it is difficult to say who is to blame.


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[onthesoi]

14 hours ago, smedly said:

a big bike will slide quite a distance when it goes down because of the weight - it doesn't mean he was speeding at all, this accident would likely still have happened even if it had been two scooters, it sounds to me like the old guy just crossed on the bend without paying too much attention to what was coming - not unusual here in Thailand

 

RIP

 

The fact he wasn't able to avoid what lay on the other side of a blind bend and killed both himself and someone else proves he was speeding, have you never heard of the term  'driving to the conditions'?... the additional fact that his bike took 100m to stop after a collision(not just sliding) just backs this up further.  There could have been an accident on the other side of the blind, if he'd came round that bend and ran into a stationary vehicle which had just been involved in accident would you still be saying he wasn't speeding?

 

Some basic physics, a stationary bike does not slide very far regardles of how heavy it is, in fact a heavy bike will brake itself more than a lighter bike due to the incontravertable laws of friction.... the force that allows a bike to carry on for 100m after a collision and against the laws of friction is, wait for it,.... speed at point of impact.  The point being weight is nothing without speed.

 

It's kinda hilarious you making all these posts about what a safe and experienced driver you are but you don't have the first clue about what you should be doing when approaching a blind bend.

 

59% of all fatalities occur on country roads. These roads often have sharp bends and blind bends which can hide unexpected hazards. Stay in control and give yourself time to react because you never know what’s around the corner. THINK! Brake before the bend, not on it.

http://think.direct.gov.uk/country-roads.html

 

 

 

[bazza73]

According to the OP,  the falang died from (in part ) head injuries. Was he wearing a helmet? If not, IMHO he definitely contributed to his own death.