Two dead as foreigner on powerful bike hits local in Phetchabun

[steve73]

18 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

The fact he wasn't able to avoid what lay on the other side of a blind bend and killed both himself and someone else proves he was speeding, have you never heard of the term  'driving to the conditions'?... the additional fact that his bike took 100m to stop after a collision(not just sliding) just backs this up further.  There could have been an accident on the other side of the blind, if he'd came round that bend and ran into a stationary vehicle which had just been involved in accident would you still be saying he wasn't speeding?

 

Some basic physics, a stationary bike does not slide very far regardles of how heavy it is, in fact a heavy bike will brake itself more than a lighter bike due to the incontravertable laws of friction.... the force that allows a bike to carry on for 100m after a collision and against the laws of friction is, wait for it,.... speed at point of impact.  The point being weight is nothing without speed.

 

It's kinda hilarious you making all these posts about what a safe and experienced driver you are but you don't have the first clue about what you should be doing when approaching a blind bend.

 

59% of all fatalities occur on country roads. These roads often have sharp bends and blind bends which can hide unexpected hazards. Stay in control and give yourself time to react because you never know what’s around the corner. THINK! Brake before the bend, not on it.

http://think.direct.gov.uk/country-roads.html

 

 

 

"Drive to the conditions" is a lesson I learned very early in my motorcycling life.  Along with "Be prepared to stop within the distance you can see to be clear". 

 

Anyone with even relatively little experience of driving/riding in Thailand should know that  the unexpected frequently occurs.  Cars and motorcycles pull out from side roads with no regard for anything coming.  Motorcycles frequently cross dual carriageways where they are not supposed to....and in some places even trucks make the same crazy manoeuvers.   Plenty of vehicles drive at night without lights front or rear.... and I'm sure we can all cite many other dangerous or outright stupid examples.  This is Thailand's traffic "rules".  Unfortunately, the enforcement of many (all?) of the traffic laws is lacking and as a result such practices will undoubtedly continue.

 

Anyone driving here will never be immune from the recklessness or stupidity of other road users and so accidents are frequent.  If you're riding a motorcycle then you are at significantly increased risk of coming off much worse than when driving a car....even a minor bump can lead to a fatality.

 

So if you want to continue safe riding for many years you need to ride to the conditions.  And if this means slowing to 25kph when you see some idiot contemplating (illegally) crossing in an unexpected  place, then this is what you should do....

 

.....and pray to god that the driver in pickup truck right behind you is also prepared to slow down!!

 

Always expect the unexpected - assume that they're all out to get you and take precautions accordingly.

 

I apologise if I sound like an old mother hen, but this approach has served me well for over 10 years of driving & riding here.

 

[SABloke]

I think that you'll find Thai roads aren't dangerous because of expats/tourists alone.  

I have an inkling Thais are equally responsible...

 

I've been here on and off for 15 years and I see bad drivers and irresponsible behaviour but it tends to be across all nationalities. 

 

As for 4-5 times the speed limit, yet to see that.

 

I live in BKK mind.

 

 

Don't bother, he refers to "the Thais" and their "little bikes" - just a hint of a condescending "me big money" attitude in certain parts of Thailand. He didn't mention Pattaya did he...oh wait, he did [emoji6] He obviously hasn't seen much of 9am - 5pm Thailand where countles normal middle income people and plenty of millionares drive normal cars, luxury cars, superbikes and supercars (and they often drive them dangerously/selfishly)

 

 

 

[louse1953]

On 15/05/2017 at 8:59 AM, robblok said:

Looks like the old guy made an illegal crossover. The poor guy on the fast bike could have gone slower but the guy doing the illegal crossing was wrong. I hate it when people go against the flow of traffic.. do U turns the other way around and just cross roads where they cant cross roads.

 

Just crazy of locals crossing on a spot like that just to save a bit of money on fuel. We got a spot like that here too.. if they use the normal U turn it would be just 200 meter further up.. but that would mean an extra 400 meter.. and no that is too much so going against traffic is a better option.

 

I learn to adapt.. but its quite unsafe.

 

All what you say is true Rob,but you drive to the conditions right and wrong.Be defensive,dont take anything for granted.

[louse1953]

On 16/05/2017 at 4:57 PM, eeyang wah said:

I knew that foreigner-blaming headline would be wrong before I even read the article. 

How about: Two dead as idiot crosses road without looking.

But you see this every day.If you can't see 50 mts in front don't push it.Mai hen,mai bai..

[louse1953]

On 15/05/2017 at 9:52 PM, hawker9000 said:

Yeap, the mototaxi drivers are maniacs and foreigners quickly pick up all their bad habits, most emphatically including excessive speed in situations demanding extra caution and sensible speeds.  The fact of the accident demonstrates that excessive speed was at least a factor, but defensive driving just isn't part of the much vaunted "culture".

Do you notice that a Thai will pull out onto a road and stop if they she something,where most farangs,stop or nearly stop at a corner,look and proceeded if appropriate.Matter of seconds,but that is all it takes.

[PeVee1st]

First, the major problem is that Thais have scant regard for the rules of the road as testified here.
Like all Thais they will not walk, drive, whatever 10 paces to save their lives.
I do not want to enter into the big bikers actions because like all accidents, change one thing & you have no accident.
I ride a scooter & a big bike, the skills for avoiding accidents us to stay away from the other traffic, anticipate others stupid actions and remain aware of all around you.

[dexjnr555]

On 5/15/2017 at 9:19 AM, Farang hunter said:

Damn  some ignorant foreigners when they just think the world is a perfect place.   hey stranger behave your self

 

On 5/15/2017 at 8:59 AM, robblok said:

Looks like the old guy made an illegal crossover. The poor guy on the fast bike could have gone slower but the guy doing the illegal crossing was wrong. I hate it when people go against the flow of traffic.. do U turns the other way around and just cross roads where they cant cross roads.

 

Just crazy of locals crossing on a spot like that just to save a bit of money on fuel. We got a spot like that here too.. if they use the normal U turn it would be just 200 meter further up.. but that would mean an extra 400 meter.. and no that is too much so going against traffic is a better option.

 

I learn to adapt.. but its quite unsafe.

 

The most pressing issue here is that a local man who probably is a father, brother, uncle, son etc is now dead due to a foreigner. 

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, dexjnr555 said:

 

The most pressing issue here is that a local man who probably is a father, brother, uncle, son etc is now dead due to a foreigner. 

Not really.. the guy made a illegal crossover... he is the one at fault. 

[moe666]

And please do not think the police will only find find aganist a farang. A friend hit and killed a drunk on a bicycle the guy rode into the front of the guys car, dead. It was at night and the bicycle doesn't have lights, the police took a look and say not your fault farang.

 

He did give the family 50,000b which he didn't have too, the family was asking for more and his Thai wife tells them no thats all.

[dexjnr555]

On 5/17/2017 at 8:21 PM, PeVee1st said:

First, the major problem is that Thais have scant regard for the rules of the road as testified here.
Like all Thais they will not walk, drive, whatever 10 paces to save their lives.
I do not want to enter into the big bikers actions because like all accidents, change one thing & you have no accident.
I ride a scooter & a big bike, the skills for avoiding accidents us to stay away from the other traffic, anticipate others stupid actions and remain aware of all around you.

You cannot generalise a whole nation like that. 

[Ocicat]

One way u-turns is a fantastic idea and I'm sure would save many lives. Very dangerous when 2 vihicles in opposite diections making the u-turn. Each vehicle blinds the other to traffic in the lanes you want to enter.

[LomSak27]

3 hours ago, dexjnr555 said:

The most pressing issue here is that a local man who probably is a father, brother, uncle, son etc is now dead due to a foreigner. 

If it was a Thai who killed the local man then it would be ok ?!  Better think about it before you post.

 

 

[oldlakey]

8 hours ago, dexjnr555 said:

 

The most pressing issue here is that a local man who probably is a father, brother, uncle, son etc is now dead due to a foreigner. 

I expect that happens in most /  every country, EVERY day

[Chris.B]

On 2017-5-15 at 2:42 AM, nandele said:

Name was Gerhard and was Austrian not Australian...RIP


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Did he use to live in Nakhon Sawan a 8 years or so back?

[anon4546543]

On 2017-5-15 at 8:54 AM, Nowisee said:

The factors that caused this could be controlled somewhat.

Speed kills.  There is no way around that fact.

Crossing a lane of traffic at a blind or limited view bend.

 

There is a time and place for going fast. BUT, for the life of me I do not understand why people go so damn fast in congested (people/animals/other bikes) areas, places where high speed is not reasonable, places with very limited forward visibility (hills/corners), poor road conditions.  

 

Daily, nightly I hear sport bikes ripping through the gears from traffic light to traffic light at high speed on a narrow, congested section of road full of small sois, businesses, parking lot exits and bends in the road.  

 

Speed is a measurement of motion over a set distance at a given time. So a person walking quickly over one hundred metres may be said to be speeding at 5 kilometres per hour.

Speed cannot kill you, it is just a measurement of time and motion. And stupid jingo, jargon artists like you blab on with your slogans about Speed Kills.

 The same applies to another marketing/advertising slogan as "Headlights Save Lives" It is why all hospitals have a headlight next to the "oxyviva".

Just run the head light over the patient and voila, the patient revives. Simplistic jargon may rake in the money for the marketing agencies, allow brain dead sloganeers

to sprout rubbish but does nothing to reduce road carnage. Young people  do not listen to slogans except to follow their football team.

It was the impact that killed. It was one man not driving to conditions and the old chap making a crossing at a dangerous bend.

 RIP to them both. I hope they change the corner crossing to make it safer and I hope they can keep people incapable about making judgements of driving to conditions off the road.

And enough of stupid slogans  

[oldlakey]

13 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Speed is a measurement of motion over a set distance at a given time. So a person walking quickly over one hundred metres may be said to be speeding at 5 kilometres per hour.

Speed cannot kill you, it is just a measurement of time and motion. And stupid jingo, jargon artists like you blab on with your slogans about Speed Kills.

 The same applies to another marketing/advertising slogan as "Headlights Save Lives" It is why all hospitals have a headlight next to the "oxyviva".

Just run the head light over the patient and voila, the patient revives. Simplistic jargon may rake in the money for the marketing agencies, allow brain dead sloganeers

to sprout rubbish but does nothing to reduce road carnage. Young people  do not listen to slogans except to follow their football team.

It was the impact that killed. It was one man not driving to conditions and the old chap making a crossing at a dangerous bend.

 RIP to them both. I hope they change the corner crossing to make it safer and I hope they can keep people incapable about making judgements of driving to conditions off the road.

And enough of stupid slogans  

Speed kills is a perfectly acceptable slogan to get a point over to the mindless morons in our midst

Life is precious so anything that is designed to preserve it should be welcomed, even if we strongly disagree with it

Speed itself does not kill as you say, but it is the consequences of speed that kills

There has been no shortage of proof of this on Thaivisa

Speed gives you less time to react to a given situation, that is simple common sense

Speed has its place when employed by those who can judge when and where, unfortunately that can quickly change with fatal consequences, even for the competent and experienced road user

I will put my faith in slogans and who knows maybe even a little education one day, rather than your forlorn hope of road improvements and keeping the average Thai driver / rider / pedestrian off the roads

 

 

 

[anon4546543]

4 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Speed kills is a perfectly acceptable slogan to get a point over to the mindless morons in our midst

Life is precious so anything that is designed to preserve it should be welcomed, even if we strongly disagree with it

Speed itself does not kill as you say, but it is the consequences of speed that kills

There has been no shortage of proof of this on Thaivisa

Speed gives you less time to react to a given situation, that is simple common sense

Speed has its place when employed by those who can judge when and where, unfortunately that can quickly change with fatal consequences, even for the competent and experienced road user

I will put my faith in slogans and who knows maybe even a little education one day, rather than your forlorn hope of road improvements and keeping the average Thai driver / rider / pedestrian off the roads

 

 

 

Mindless slogans have not saved one life ever. The persons that have the most road incidents do not listen to silly slogans.

Only old codgers and spinsters. Only marketing people make money out of stupid slogans. So you put your faith in repeating

moronic slogans, and if you repeat them often enough, turn it into a chant, kneel on a prayer mat, you may just start a

new revolution in road safety.

 Practical measures reduce road carnage, not marketing jargon. 

[douglasspade]

On 2017/05/15 at 2:19 AM, Farang hunter said:

Damn  some ignorant foreigners when they just think the world is a perfect place.   hey stranger behave your self

When you get on a motorcycle in Thailand, no matter if you a local or a foreigner, or if you driving or riding pinion, man or woman, young or old - your chances of being involved in some indecent or 'near miss' on a daily basis has gone up with 100%!

 

Just a note:

Fatality rates per 100,000 population of road accidents. Thailand Rank no 2 in a case study done in 2014 !

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/02/study-thailand-roads-2nd-most-dangerous-in-the-world/#fOSpdoi8O2JubiIU.97

 

Gerhard, Ranthom, may you rest in peace.

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, spiderorchid said:

Mindless slogans have not saved one life ever. The persons that have the most road incidents do not listen to silly slogans.

Only old codgers and spinsters. Only marketing people make money out of stupid slogans. So you put your faith in repeating

moronic slogans, and if you repeat them often enough, turn it into a chant, kneel on a prayer mat, you may just start a

new revolution in road safety.

 Practical measures reduce road carnage, not marketing jargon. 

I am at a loss to see where you are coming from on this

As I have already stated, life is precious, slogans are one way of getting a message over

You have obviously turned your face against them 

I would still employ the slogan Speed kills even if the other normal measures were taken in Thailand to try to reduce the accident statistics, which they are not

Thanks all the same

[oldlakey]

8 minutes ago, douglasspade said:

When you get on a motorcycle in Thailand, no matter if you a local or a foreigner, or if you driving or riding pinion, man or woman, young or old - your chances of being involved in some indecent or 'near miss' on a daily basis has gone up with 100%!

 

Just a note:

Fatality rates per 100,000 population of road accidents. Thailand Rank no 2 in a case study done in 2014 !

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/02/study-thailand-roads-2nd-most-dangerous-in-the-world/#fOSpdoi8O2JubiIU.97

 

Gerhard, Ranthom, may you rest in peace.

Yes douglasspade, there cant be anybody on Thaivisa who does not know where Thailand is regards road fatalities 

Its in your face on a daily basis, words just cant express what a sad waste of life it is

[richard_smith237]

11 hours ago, dexjnr555 said:

 

The most pressing issue here is that a local man who probably is a father, brother, uncle, son etc is now dead due to a foreigner. 

 

Not really... but your comment perhaps highlights that the most pressing issue is that not everyone is intelligent, yet you also share the road with others... 

 

I have a question regarding your comment above of the 'The local man, who was probably a father, brother, uncle, son etc'...  was he probably any more of these than the foreign man ?

 

 

This 'local man' crossed the road at a point that he shouldn't and in doing so placed lives in danger. In this case a foreigner (it could have been anyone) was riding the road at 'riding speed' (it could have been a car driving) and the local was wiped out, in doing so the motorcyclist with legal right of way, moral right of way and right of way in any world which includes common sense was also killed. 

 

The only world in which the foreign motorcyclists could be criticized is one in which he could be blamed for not predicting the idiocy or unpredictability of others - this is where training and experience comes in and it could have saved his life had he made a different choice, paid greater attention or simply been taking it more easy, or not...   ...or just taken his journey in a car instead... BUT... the guy crossing the road did so at a dangerous time....

 

...... the guy taking the short cut killed the guy riding legally along the road. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by richard_smith237

[anon4546543]

8 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

I am at a loss to see where you are coming from on this

As I have already stated, life is precious, slogans are one way of getting a message over

You have obviously turned your face against them 

I would still employ the slogan Speed kills even if the other normal measures were taken in Thailand to try to reduce the accident statistics, which they are not

Thanks all the same

Of course you are at a loss. You have your entire education based on slogans. 

Slogans, especially false and silly ones are only good for mouthing words.

They had nil effect on the people who cause road incidents. Why would

a young person, educated to know that speed is a measure of distance, time and motion

ever believe that it has any effect on him/her. Speed cannot and has never killed anyone.

Headlights cannot save lives. Don't pay marketing companies to create slogans that

only those that have few incidents "believe in"  Instead spend money on practical measures.

 Spend money on enforcing learning to drive and get a licence while at school for one thing.

So many more practical measures instead of supporting "Safety councils" that do nothing

except pay huge money in salaries to  council members to litter the roadside with meaningless jargon,

pay money to marketers to create even more nonsense jargon and create a little empire that saves

not one life.

 

 

[oldlakey]

14 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Of course you are at a loss. You have your entire education based on slogans. 

Slogans, especially false and silly ones are only good for mouthing words.

They had nil effect on the people who cause road incidents. Why would

a young person, educated to know that speed is a measure of distance, time and motion

ever believe that it has any effect on him/her. Speed cannot and has never killed anyone.

Headlights cannot save lives. Don't pay marketing companies to create slogans that

only those that have few incidents "believe in"  Instead spend money on practical measures.

 Spend money on enforcing learning to drive and get a licence while at school for one thing.

So many more practical measures instead of supporting "Safety councils" that do nothing

except pay huge money in salaries to  council members to litter the roadside with meaningless jargon,

pay money to marketers to create even more nonsense jargon and create a little empire that saves

not one life.

 

 

I am still at a loss with your attitude, even after reading that tirade twice, which I think I deserve a medal as big as a dustbin lid for

As far as slogans go two of my favourites are  Go to work on an Egg and You are never alone with a Strand

I know showing my age

Edited June 14, 2017 by oldlakey

[observer90210]

Speeding, supercharged bikes, careless people crossing and not looking and you have a deadly and explosive cocktail of death!!

How many more people would need to die before putting dissuasive road bumps, clearer U Turn directions, more pedestrian crossing with red lights to force cars to stop, clearer trafic lanes...it seems obvious?...maintain them....etc..etc..

Drive slow in the meantime.

RIP both of you.

[oldlakey]

2 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Speeding, supercharged bikes, careless people crossing and not looking and you have a deadly and explosive cocktail of death!!

How many more people would need to die before putting dissuasive road bumps, clearer U Turn directions, more pedestrian crossing with red lights to force cars to stop, clearer trafic lanes...it seems obvious?...maintain them....etc..etc..

Drive slow in the meantime.

RIP both of you.

Wow what a wish list, get ready to wait several Birthdays, Dec 25, and Thanksgiving even if you dont celebrate it, and last but not least the Tooth Fairy will have to come and look under your pillow at least a couple of times

[kannot]

On 5/15/2017 at 11:54 AM, DLang said:

 

See it here everyday, instead of going 100 meters up the road to do a u-turn, they opt to either drive the wrong way up the road, cut straight across the road to where there's a pedestrian ramp/crossing and they can ride over it, cut across go in the wrong direction's fast lane to where there is an opposite u-turn that they can cut across.

 

 

All to save 30 seconds by riding the correct way down to the correct u-turn.

 

I'm actually pretty sure that they think they are clever doing so, and that those doing it the correct way are stupid.

Just like the <deleted>  at traffic  lights  wanting to turn right who "avoid"  the queue by sailing to the front  using the straight on  lane with their "me first attitude"  boy  how id  like to get outta  the car and smack them up, nothing more than selfish <deleted>

[kannot]

On 6/15/2017 at 0:05 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Not really... but your comment perhaps highlights that the most pressing issue is that not everyone is intelligent, yet you also share the road with others... 

 

I have a question regarding your comment above of the 'The local man, who was probably a father, brother, uncle, son etc'...  was he probably any more of these than the foreign man ?

 

 

This 'local man' crossed the road at a point that he shouldn't and in doing so placed lives in danger. In this case a foreigner (it could have been anyone) was riding the road at 'riding speed' (it could have been a car driving) and the local was wiped out, in doing so the motorcyclist with legal right of way, moral right of way and right of way in any world which includes common sense was also killed. 

 

The only world in which the foreign motorcyclists could be criticized is one in which he could be blamed for not predicting the idiocy or unpredictability of others - this is where training and experience comes in and it could have saved his life had he made a different choice, paid greater attention or simply been taking it more easy, or not...   ...or just taken his journey in a car instead... BUT... the guy crossing the road did so at a dangerous time....

 

...... the guy taking the short cut killed the guy riding legally along the road. 

actually  i think they (Thais) know "exactly" what they are doing is wrong but they are BONE <deleted> idle.......its as  simple a s that

[kannot]

On 5/16/2017 at 10:58 PM, steve73 said:

"Drive to the conditions" is a lesson I learned very early in my motorcycling life.  Along with "Be prepared to stop within the distance you can see to be clear". 

 

Anyone with even relatively little experience of driving/riding in Thailand should know that  the unexpected frequently occurs.  Cars and motorcycles pull out from side roads with no regard for anything coming.  Motorcycles frequently cross dual carriageways where they are not supposed to....and in some places even trucks make the same crazy manoeuvers.   Plenty of vehicles drive at night without lights front or rear.... and I'm sure we can all cite many other dangerous or outright stupid examples.  This is Thailand's traffic "rules".  Unfortunately, the enforcement of many (all?) of the traffic laws is lacking and as a result such practices will undoubtedly continue.

 

Anyone driving here will never be immune from the recklessness or stupidity of other road users and so accidents are frequent.  If you're riding a motorcycle then you are at significantly increased risk of coming off much worse than when driving a car....even a minor bump can lead to a fatality.

 

So if you want to continue safe riding for many years you need to ride to the conditions.  And if this means slowing to 25kph when you see some idiot contemplating (illegally) crossing in an unexpected  place, then this is what you should do....

 

.....and pray to god that the driver in pickup truck right behind you is also prepared to slow down!!

 

Always expect the unexpected - assume that they're all out to get you and take precautions accordingly.

 

I apologise if I sound like an old mother hen, but this approach has served me well for over 10 years of driving & riding here.

 

Thats  all well and  good  but you would  literally get "nowhere"  following this............. you'd  get there  faster  walking, the first problem is dogs in which case you would never drive faster "anywhere" than  walking speed as you would  not be able  to stop fast enough.

Dogs  can appear anywhere at anytime like a proverbial Kamikaze

Edited June 14, 2017 by kannot

[observer90210]

2 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Wow what a wish list, get ready to wait several Birthdays, Dec 25, and Thanksgiving even if you dont celebrate it, and last but not least the Tooth Fairy will have to come and look under your pillow at least a couple of times

,,I agree...but let's dream a bit!! ...and let's hope in the meantime that the tooth fairy does not get hit over by a speeding humvee during one of it's visits!!

Edited June 14, 2017 by observer90210

[oldlakey]

3 hours ago, observer90210 said:

,,I agree...but let's dream a bit!! ...and let's hope in the meantime that the tooth fairy does not get hit over by a speeding humvee during one of it's visits!!

Nowt wrong with dreaming, as a matter of fact I am an advocate of it in this case

Just about anything is better than the present situation on Thai roads

Just a point I would like to take up with you, I am a Brit so we say knocked over not hit over when talking road accidents

The  Tooth fairy could of course be hit over the head and mugged while going about their business but thats just life

Have a nice day